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Piracetam - How to get all the benefits from it

piracetam nootropics non-responders oxiracetam aniracetam noopept memory cognition learning choline

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#61 Introspecta

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 08:54 PM

Oh my piracetam dosing is usually about 5-6grams 3-4 times per day. Sometimes I go really high if I want super focus for reading and learning. That stuff makes me want to absorb everything.

#62 Hyperspace21

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:45 PM

Oh my piracetam dosing is usually about 5-6grams 3-4 times per day. Sometimes I go really high if I want super focus for reading and learning. That stuff makes me want to absorb everything.


Well if you ever decide to take choline then I'd suggest taking 1g of it (calculated using the dietary information you provided) and if it gives you headaches then lower to 500m. Even after 500mg if you get headaches then I'd suggest not taking choline for a while.

It also seems like you have a calcium deficit (glutamate more likely). so try supplementing it or take more of the food products I've mentioned (try to reach about 1000mg - 1500mg daily calcium consumption). :)

Edited by Hyperspace21, 18 February 2012 - 09:53 PM.


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#63 Introspecta

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:03 PM

Ok I will try. Yeah so I forgot to add that when I used choline I never went above 1.5 grams.

#64 Hyperspace21

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:04 PM

DETERMINING YOUR CALCIUM / GLUTAMATE OR GLUTAMIC ACID INTAKE:
  • Check your Piracetam consumption. If it is more than 4.8 grams and you feel the subtle effects then you have a glutamate/glutamic acid deficit.
  • If you consume more than 4.8 grams and feel no subtle effects then you have a calcium deficit.
  • If you consume more than 4.8 grams and feel some subtle effects then you have an imbalanced amount amount of calcium and glutamate/glutamic acid.
If you consume less than 4.8 grams and feel subtle effects then I would say don't bother with the calcium and glutamate. However, if you consume less than 4.8 grams and feel no effects then I'd advise you to try taking 4.8 grams of Piracetam or keep taking Piracetam until you feel the effects (maximum 15 grams). If you feel no subtle effects till 15 grams of Piracetam then I would say you have a high Glutamate or Calcium Deficiency.

Edited by Hyperspace21, 18 February 2012 - 10:05 PM.


#65 Hyperspace21

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:09 PM

QUICK NOTES:

  • Piracetam's functions work injunction with calcium ions and glutamte concentrations in the brain. These 2 substances should be well balanced.
  • Piracetam's dosage is like a 'U' shaped curve there is a different sweet spot for everyone, but the most common is 4.8 grams. Refer to ScienceGuy's thread for why you should consume 4.8 grams.
  • Choline and glutamate levels matter they also exhibit 'U' shaped curve sweet spots.
  • To Regulate Calcium ions in your brain, drink atleast 500ml or 16.9 .oz (U.S. ounces) of milk everyday. If you are lactose intolerant then calcium tablets should be used.
  • Never consume choline above 3.5 grams per day, it'll becomes toxic to the body and put you in Depression.
  • Always eat a well balanced meal with carbs,proteins, unsaturated fats and adequate amounts of sodium.Avoid carbohydrates from excess sugar.


Wow man you are awesome! I had no idea about the calcium levels. You are genius or you are just well informed.


Thanks! :laugh: I really appreciate your support! :-D I couldn't have done it without my team, (friends and colleagues). :-D

#66 Hyperspace21

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:18 PM

Np brah. What is a natural way to keep glutamate levels up bro?

  • Grains
  • Dairy Products
  • Beans
  • Seeds
  • Peanuts
  • Poultry
  • Meat
  • Soy (not recommended due to estrogen toxicity)
These are all foods that are rich in glutamate. Please do not consume in excess (meaning that you can't binge on these food items). However you can eat/drink enough of these to fill your stomach.

#67 manic_racetam

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:08 PM

FOUND THIS SUPPLIER OF FREE FORM L-GLUTAMIC ACID POWDER 99.98% USP GRADE: NUTRABIO - L-GLUTAMIC ACID :)

N.B. It is important to differentiate between FREE FORM L-GLUTAMIC ACID and the SODIUM SALT of L-GLUTAMIC ACID (= MSG)



I think it's also important to point out that it is L-Glutamic acid... and MSG is not L-MSG. So having L and D enantiomers is not the same as having all L enantiomers....

Right? Just like L-Methamphetamine and D-Methamphetamine have completely different pharmacological profiles, is it out of the question to wonder what effect, if any, the D sections of the glutamate in MSG are having?

EDIT: Changed R to D for the enantiomers..

Edited by manic_racetam, 07 March 2012 - 04:40 AM.


#68 Hyperspace21

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:09 PM

Oh ok well I am pretty high in that then. I'm going to stop by the vitamin store and scoop up some Calcium tablets when I'm out and about. I can't have dairy - serious prob for me lol.

Do you know if Piracetam can effect me if I start to take something like Superdrol?


Report your experiences back after you've taken some calcium tablets. :) As far as consumption of Superdrol is concerned, it should not interfere with Piracetam but I remember a case where a substance like Superdrol (or Superdrol) was banned or was a controlled substance in the USA; since it was found to be extremely potent and harmful, which also had high chances of causing liver damage.

I wouldn't recommend taking superdrol in high doses or taking superdrol at all since it closely resembles an anobolic steroid, which can over stimulate adrenal glands or over produce testosterone and damage androgen receptors (not likely) in the brain. It is very good for synthesizing muscle fibers but with the consequences of getting high cholesterol or some major heart related problems. You are free to decide on what you want to do but I would NOT RECOMMEND this substance. :)
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#69 capctr

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:09 AM

Today I used a level tablespoon of Piracetam chased down with one raw egg(for the choline in the yolk) and 17oz of milk. Finally starting to notice the color everyone talks about. No headache or irritability(which I usually seem to have, maybe it is the MSG I started adding?). Following the advice on this thread has really improved my experience.
On a side note, my Noopept and centrophenoxine finally came today- is Noopept supposed to have a slight floral scent? Oh, and FYI- don't put centrophenoxine under the tongue, as it ate the first layer of tissue under mine(yikes).

#70 Ben

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:34 AM

One of the best threads on piracetam I've seen here for years (equal best with Science Guy's). Keep us updated OP!

Head to the supplier discussion forum to talk about suppliers of bulk piracetam.
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#71 ScienceGuy

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:44 PM

FOUND THIS SUPPLIER OF FREE FORM L-GLUTAMIC ACID POWDER 99.98% USP GRADE: NUTRABIO - L-GLUTAMIC ACID :)

N.B. It is important to differentiate between FREE FORM L-GLUTAMIC ACID and the SODIUM SALT of L-GLUTAMIC ACID (= MSG)



I think it's also important to point out that it is L-Glutamic acid... and MSG is not L-MSG. So having L and D enantiomers is not the same as having all L enantiomers....

Right? Just like L-Methamphetamine and D-Methamphetamine have completely different pharmacological profiles, is it out of the question to wonder what effect, if any, the D sections of the glutamate in MSG are having?

EDIT: Changed R to D for the enantiomers..


You are right about there being differential pharmacological properties between L and D ENANTIOMERS, where applicable; however, that in fact in not the situation here ;)

To clarify MONOSODIUM L-GLUTAMATE (MSG) = SODIUM bonded to FREE FORM L-GLUTAMIC ACID :)

I.e. MSG = MONOSODIUM L-GLUTAMATE, not MONOSODIUM DL-GLUTAMATE

Edited by manic_racetam, 07 March 2012 - 04:41 AM.


#72 ScienceGuy

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:55 PM

One of the best threads on piracetam I've seen here for years (equal best with Science Guy's).


EDIT: Hyperspace has been shown to be a fraud which would indicate that his study is also fake; as such I recommend that everyone completely ignore all information contained within all Hyperspace's study reports and posts, and do NOT take any additional L-GLUTAMIC ACID or GLUTAMATE. The dosage L-GLUTAMIC ACID / GLUTAMATE recommended by Hyperspace was 10 - 100mg; and whilst this would not in any regard likely to be harmful to one's health, L-GLUTAMIC ACID and GLUTAMATE are EXCITOTOXINS and hence supplementing with them is NOT recommended.

Edited by ScienceGuy, 17 March 2012 - 01:54 PM.

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#73 ScienceGuy

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:58 PM

Np brah. What is a natural way to keep glutamate levels up bro?

  • Grains
  • Dairy Products
  • Beans
  • Seeds
  • Peanuts
  • Poultry
  • Meat
  • Soy (not recommended due to estrogen toxicity)
These are all foods that are rich in glutamate. Please do not consume in excess (meaning that you can't binge on these food items). However you can eat/drink enough of these to fill your stomach.


You should note that PROTEIN is not in fact the same as FREE FORM AMINO ACIDS ;)

Edited by ScienceGuy, 17 March 2012 - 01:55 PM.

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#74 health_nutty

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:29 PM

One of the best threads on piracetam I've seen here for years (equal best with Science Guy's).


Whilst I am most grateful for the positive feedback, you are in fact being far too generous... THIS thread is by far the best thread on PIRACETAM within this entire forum and much better than mine! :)

All I did was to point out what is the right dosage of PIRACETAM to take (namely 4.8 grams BID/TID); whereas HyperSpace has conducted a ground-breaking clinical study that demonstrates L-GLUTAMIC ACID / GLUTAMATE and CALCIUM to be ESSENTIAL CO-FACTORS for PIRACETAM to work properly (in addition to CHOLINE which we already knew about). Furthermore, the results of the study are staggeringly good, in that the POSITIVE RESPONDERS to PIRACETAM practically doubled (from 11 to 21 / 44% to 84%) with L-GLUTAMIC ACID / GLUTAMATE supplementation at 10-100mg. Seriously ground-breaking stuff! ;)


Since adding a tiny amount of MSG, I can take 4grams of Piracetam with NO irritability! Also I've gotten a HEADACHE for the first time from LACK of choline. I took two lecithin pills and my headache went away! Finally Piracetam is working for me like it is supposed to! My diet is very clean (I wouldn't be surprised if I was getting zero MSG).

Would taking l-glutamic acid be different than taking MSG? At those low doses of MSG is it actually harmful to your health?

Thank you Hyperspace and ScienceGuy!!!

Edit to add:
One other note to confirm what ScienceGuy is saying. I've tried taking L-glutamine with Piracetam before and this does not help with the irritibility (in fact it seemed to make it WORSE)

Edited by health_nutty, 19 February 2012 - 04:34 PM.


#75 ScienceGuy

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:42 PM

Since adding a tiny amount of MSG, I can take 4grams of Piracetam with NO irritability! Also I've gotten a HEADACHE for the first time from LACK of choline. I took two lecithin pills and my headache went away! Finally Piracetam is working for me like it is supposed to! My diet is very clean (I wouldn't be surprised if I was getting zero MSG).


That's probably the first time anyone's actually been PLEASED to get a HEADACHE! :laugh:

Edited by ScienceGuy, 17 March 2012 - 01:56 PM.

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#76 Introspecta

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:12 PM

Just Purchased Choline and Insotial 250mg caps, L-Glutamic Acid 500mg caps, and Calcium/magnesium Vit D supplement 1000mg of Calcium. Down the hatch 1gram choline and 1 dose of the rest. I can feel the 8 grams of Piracetam i took around Noon kicking back in. I didn't feel anything from it after taking it. I went to this thread and was still skeptical but figured I'd have to try something otherwise i'm just wasting my money. The crappy part is I don't know which one contributed the most. Was I calcium, glutamic acid or choline defienct. Maybe it was all 3 but I def feel a change. Is 500mg of L-glutamic Acid too much? You did say some people had an excess of Glutamic Acid resulting in negative effects, correct? I want to make sure I don't over supplement with it. Should it be taken with every dose or just once a day or less?

#77 Introspecta

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:17 PM

Does anyone remember this thread back in 2010? http://www.longecity...upplementation/ I remember people talking about L-Glutamine bringing back the magic. I tried it and it didn't seem as effective for me. I wouldn't be surprised though if my main issue is calcium because I definitely don't get much.

#78 ScienceGuy

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:30 PM

Is 500mg of L-glutamic Acid too much?


YES :)

EDIT: I recommend against supplementing with any L-GLUTAMIC ACID / GLUTAMATE for reasons specified above

Edited by ScienceGuy, 17 March 2012 - 02:09 PM.


#79 Hyperspace21

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:43 PM

Just Purchased Choline and Insotial 250mg caps, L-Glutamic Acid 500mg caps, and Calcium/magnesium Vit D supplement 1000mg of Calcium. Down the hatch 1gram choline and 1 dose of the rest. I can feel the 8 grams of Piracetam i took around Noon kicking back in. I didn't feel anything from it after taking it. I went to this thread and was still skeptical but figured I'd have to try something otherwise i'm just wasting my money. The crappy part is I don't know which one contributed the most. Was I calcium, glutamic acid or choline defienct. Maybe it was all 3 but I def feel a change. Is 500mg of L-glutamic Acid too much? You did say some people had an excess of Glutamic Acid resulting in negative effects, correct? I want to make sure I don't over supplement with it. Should it be taken with every dose or just once a day or less?


Yes 500mg, in my opinion is way too much, it could have adverse effects.

Try to isolate your problem.

Procedure:

1. Take only calcium and see if it works.
2. Take only 10-100mg glutamic acid, starting with 10mg, see if it works.
3. Take only choline as much as you see fit (not above 3.5g) and see if it works.

If one of them worked then great, you've found your problem. If none of them worked then try,

1. Supplement Calcium and gultamic acid, amounts you see fit, but not in excess.
2. Supplement Calcium and choline, amounts again as you see fit. As mentioned before.
3. Supplement Glutamic acid and Choline, amounts as you see fit.As mentioned before.

If one of these works for you then you've found your problem otherwise you have to supplement all 3 substances. If you supplement all 3 substances then, it can then be concluded that you have a deficit in all 3 substances.

As for glutamic acid/glutamate intake,

the safe maximum allowance that won't have any adverse effects (unless you are highly sensitive to any of the substances) is 200mg per day. Please do not exceed this amount. Dosages above this will have adverse effects.

#80 Hyperspace21

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:57 PM

Does anyone remember this thread back in 2010? http://www.longecity...upplementation/ I remember people talking about L-Glutamine bringing back the magic. I tried it and it didn't seem as effective for me. I wouldn't be surprised though if my main issue is calcium because I definitely don't get much.


Well obviously, it's not likely that glutamine will work for you since it can also be used in other tasks as well like basic metabolic activities (maintaining body temperature, walking,talking,etc.), it is also likely that you might have a calcium 'issue'.

Your brain is like a bank. The glutamine is the money, and calcium is your debit card.

If you have no money and you keep using your debit card, then your debit card is practically useless.
If you have some money and you use your debit card, then you can only buy some items.
If you have lots of money but no debit card or have all your money in cash (cash here, refers to low amounts of calcium) then you can not buy anything (no debit card) or buy somethings but not everything (cash; which means that you can buy lots of ordinary items but say if you were to buy a mansion, then paying in cash is not really ideal and very bulky).

Finally, if you have lots of money and a debit card, then you can practically buy anything. (credit cards are an exception not related to this example :laugh: ) .

Hope you understood the example,if not, then I'm more than happy to clear your doubts. :)

Edited by Hyperspace21, 19 February 2012 - 09:00 PM.


#81 Introspecta

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:59 PM

Thats too bad because My Glutamic Acid tabs are 500mgs per cap. I will have to open up the Caps. I just got overly excited and downed all three of the products. :laugh: I will try to be more patient. I think I'm going to try just the calcium and choline because I do use whey protein and eat protein bars and eat meat about once per day so I may have plenty of Glutamic acid. I definitely seem to not get enough calcium though. It is interesting though that after downing all 3 I started to feel effects from the Piracetam that I didn't feel prior.

#82 Hyperspace21

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:10 PM

Thats too bad because My Glutamic Acid tabs are 500mgs per cap. I will have to open up the Caps. I just got overly excited and downed all three of the products. :laugh: I will try to be more patient. I think I'm going to try just the calcium and choline because I do use whey protein and eat protein bars and eat meat about once per day so I may have plenty of Glutamic acid. I definitely seem to not get enough calcium though. It is interesting though that after downing all 3 I started to feel effects from the Piracetam that I didn't feel prior.


Apparently glutamic acid can provide a regular release of energy during a workout, so you could use a tablet before workout, but, you would have to make sure that your workout is very intensive. Also don't take more than 1 tablet a day. It would seem viable to use 500mg of glutamate if you don't supplement calcium, based on the results that we got from set 3; from our clinical trials.

#83 Introspecta

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:18 PM

Ok so I guess this is a little confusing with your 3 different trials that High or Stable Glutamate levels and low calcium is ok. Also seeing as I do workout my glutamate levels probably were low because of me using it all up. Yesterday specifically I didn't supplement with a shake after workout and today the Piracetam had no effect until I supplement glutamate and calcium but now i'm starting to think maybe it really is the Glutamate. I'm going back and forth here. Ok i'll shut up now until I get conclusive results but I must say I am very pleased and will probably save some money due to not having to take 439483290 grams of Piracetam a day. Thanks!

#84 Hyperspace21

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:36 AM

Ok so I guess this is a little confusing with your 3 different trials that High or Stable Glutamate levels and low calcium is ok. Also seeing as I do workout my glutamate levels probably were low because of me using it all up. Yesterday specifically I didn't supplement with a shake after workout and today the Piracetam had no effect until I supplement glutamate and calcium but now i'm starting to think maybe it really is the Glutamate. I'm going back and forth here. Ok i'll shut up now until I get conclusive results but I must say I am very pleased and will probably save some money due to not having to take 439483290 grams of Piracetam a day. Thanks!


Try doing glutamate tests first (I have a hunch (feeling) that it might be the cause). Feel free to discuss all that is related to this thread, you never know, it might help others too! :)

#85 Hyperspace21

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:02 PM

Another effect of Piracetam is increased endurance. I noticed it while working-out.

#86 BrainFrost

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:23 PM

Another effect of Piracetam is increased endurance. I noticed it while working-out.


I can vouch for that as well. Not only endurance but fortitude as well.

#87 middpanther88

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:36 AM

Can anyone verify the glutamic acid bit? I want to buy, but wanna see anecdotes first. Thanks!

#88 DoomAndGloom

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:57 PM

Would this advice probably roll over to other racetams, and even derivatives like noopept? Do you even suggest the other racetams?

I haven't tried any racetams at all, but I was just curious, as if I do try them soon I might try some other than piracetam (like ani-, oxi-, and prami- for example).

Also do you suggest any specific choline source if one is low on choline? Examples of these sources would be Alpha-GPC, CDP-Choline, Choline Bitartrate, Phosphatidylcholine... and then there are cofactors like Acetyl L-Carnitine, and the Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors like galantamine and Huperzine A.



Goodness, it gets complex fast. Maybe I should just keep it simple with piracetam, choline bitartrate, and ALCAR. Plus the calcium and glutamic acid if needed.

Edited by DoomAndGloom, 21 February 2012 - 02:59 PM.


#89 Tomas E

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:09 PM

Would this advice probably roll over to other racetams, and even derivatives like noopept? Do you even suggest the other racetams?

I haven't tried any racetams at all, but I was just curious, as if I do try them soon I might try some other than piracetam (like ani-, oxi-, and prami- for example).

Also do you suggest any specific choline source if one is low on choline? Examples of these sources would be Alpha-GPC, CDP-Choline, Choline Bitartrate, Phosphatidylcholine... and then there are cofactors like Acetyl L-Carnitine, and the Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors like galantamine and Huperzine A.



Goodness, it gets complex fast. Maybe I should just keep it simple with piracetam, choline bitartrate, and ALCAR. Plus the calcium and glutamic acid if needed.



Have to agree, the more I read and think I know, the more questions I have. :)

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#90 Hyperspace21

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:13 PM

Would this advice probably roll over to other racetams, and even derivatives like noopept? Do you even suggest the other racetams?

I haven't tried any racetams at all, but I was just curious, as if I do try them soon I might try some other than piracetam (like ani-, oxi-, and prami- for example).

Also do you suggest any specific choline source if one is low on choline? Examples of these sources would be Alpha-GPC, CDP-Choline, Choline Bitartrate, Phosphatidylcholine... and then there are cofactors like Acetyl L-Carnitine, and the Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors like galantamine and Huperzine A.



Goodness, it gets complex fast. Maybe I should just keep it simple with piracetam, choline bitartrate, and ALCAR. Plus the calcium and glutamic acid if needed.


Should work for other racetams considering they work in the same manner as piracetam does. I don't have any test results to verify them yet.

Alpha GPC is the best choline source out there; CDP choline is almost equal except that it's expensive in its pure form. Try no to take inhibitors (unless they were prescribed to you) for the first 2 weeks, and then you can add them in later to see if they have any effect on the functioning of piracetam. Also try the glutamate/glutamic acid and calcium supplementation. Do this only, if you don't 'feel' anything within the first week.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: piracetam, nootropics, non-responders, oxiracetam, aniracetam, noopept, memory, cognition, learning, choline

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