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#1 Orajel

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:23 AM


Hey all, I'm new here. I've been reading up on nootropics and "smart drugs" a lot lately, and have put together a combination that seems to be working nicely. I'm always looking to improve myself and any tips on this would be great.

What I'm taking:

Omega 3 FISH OIL (4000mg 2x/day)

SAN Dr. Feel Good Multivitamin/Mineral

acetyl l-carnetine (1000-1500mg 1-3x/day)

Choline (500mg 2x/day w/ piracetam) additional 500mg in multi-vitamin, total 1500mg

melatonin (2.5mg before bed)

Vitamineral Green

Ashwagandha (5-600mg 2x/day, at night and in the morning)

Piracetam (2 tsp 2x/day) about 9g total


I'm going to add sulbutiamine to this and see how that works. Since I've started this (about a week ago) I've noticed improved mood, concentration and memory recall. No sleep disturbances or gastrointestional problems, but nothing spectacular yet. I'm a firm believer that supplementation has to go hand in hand with a healthy lifestyle, so I exervise regularly (aerobic and anerobic), eat healthy and keep my mind and body active. I suffer from lifelong depression, anxiety, panic attacks, and HPPD and am seeking alternatives to traditional medication which i've been largely un-responsive to.

Edited by Orajel, 04 March 2012 - 06:25 AM.


#2 Baten

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 08:55 AM

Your stack seems to look good to me. I don't like using things like sulbutiamine which you build tolerance against very quickly, but you can at least try it.
For anxiety, I take 2g lysine at lunch and 1g lysine at dinner, coupled with some zinc picolinate each time. Works very well for me.
For social anxiety high doses of inositol could be useful. (like, 6g first dose, 3g every dose after that if you need more during a single day).

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#3 user1

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:32 PM

I also have HPPD.

That's quite a lot of fish oil. Someone posted on hppdonline.com (I'm sure you know of it?) that too much fish oil can cause inflamation.

I also read that it's not good to take melatonin all the time as your body will down regulate its production.

What visuals do you experience? I have a bunch of abnormalities but my most troublesome are ghosting and visual snow.

Any visual improvement?

#4 Orajel

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:04 PM

I've tried inositol, 18g a day, without much benefit. I havent tried lysine, how does lysine improve anxiety? I use propranolol before public speaking, its the only thing that's helped me with panic attacks.

Also, interesting point on the fish oil user1. I'm going to step it down to 1000mg EPA oil, seeing as EPA has significantly more science backing it compared to DHA (in terms of brain health). And, I've wondered if melatonin downregulates natural production, but I've been taking it daily for years, its propably too late for me :P insomnia is a bitch.

My visual problems are what I like to call "TV static" on everything I look at, especially on large textureless surfaces like a clear blue sky. This is probably the same thing as the "visual snow" you mentioned. It gets worse at night. I also see mild tracers on moving objects and my night vision is slighlty compromised. Patterns move when I look at them (blinds, testured floors, carpet) but my main concern is a hazy component to everything I look at. This can make me feel pretty disconnected from what I'm experiencing sometimes. It's nothing that interfears with my ability to function; I can drive, study, do everything I used to do, but I can easily feel detached because things just dont LOOK real. They arent sharp or vibrant, they are HAZY! I don't use any recreational drugs anymore, so hopefully with time my HPPD will improve. And yes, I have been medically diagnosed with this disorder from several doctors. My advice, stay away from MDMA, PCP, DXM, lSD, magic mushrooms, and other drugs that can alter your vision long-term.

Vinpocetine has improved my vision, but becasue of some side effects I've read about (increased DOPAC, decreased monoamine activity) I've stopped using it. Nicotine helps my vision, but I'm an ex smoker, so I don't use it regularly. I'll buy a tin of dip every now and then :D

On a side note, too much Ashwagandha can alter my vision and make me drowsy. About 1gram a day, split half at night and half in the morning, seems to be the perfect dose for me when it comes to relieving nervousness without causing drowsiness or visual side effects.

Edited by Orajel, 04 March 2012 - 10:08 PM.


#5 khemix

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:31 PM

Omega 3 FISH OIL (4000mg 2x/day)

SAN Dr. Feel Good Multivitamin/Mineral

acetyl l-carnetine (1000-1500mg 1-3x/day)

Choline (500mg 2x/day w/ piracetam) additional 500mg in multi-vitamin, total 1500mg

melatonin (2.5mg before bed)

Vitamineral Green

Ashwagandha (5-600mg 2x/day, at night and in the morning)

Piracetam (2 tsp 2x/day) about 9g total

Sounds like a lot of fish oil, I don't know what the basis for that is. I'm not a fan of piracetam, and 9g sounds like a lot.



I'm going to add sulbutiamine to this and see how that works. Since I've started this (about a week ago) I've noticed improved mood, concentration and memory recall. No sleep disturbances or gastrointestional problems, but nothing spectacular yet. I'm a firm believer that supplementation has to go hand in hand with a healthy lifestyle, so I exervise regularly (aerobic and anerobic), eat healthy and keep my mind and body active. I suffer from lifelong depression, anxiety, panic attacks, and HPPD and am seeking alternatives to traditional medication which i've been largely un-responsive to.

I've tried inositol, 18g a day, without much benefit. I havent tried lysine, how does lysine improve anxiety? I use propranolol before public speaking, its the only thing that's helped me with panic attacks.

Propranol inhibits norepinephrine, which is why it reduces the physical symptoms of anxiety. I'm not really a fan of reducing NE this way because this neurotransmitter has important brain functions such as motivation and feeling of well being. Low levels are implicated with lower energy levels and depression. What you could try in its place is boosting GABA, which would more naturally modulate your NE levels and produce the same anxiolytic effects. Something like theanine 100mg might do the trick as its the only thing I know of that doesn't have tolerance. You can try other things like taurine and magnesium. For something stronger you can try benzos, ie. valium or klonipin, which are probably as dangerous as the propranol you take.

#6 user1

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:37 PM

I had thought about vinpocetine too, but had read about some side effects as well and so I'm not taking it at the moment. I'll have to research it further when I have some free time (very busy atm).

Interesting that you mention nicotine - it is something which I had come accross in my research. Again, I need to research it further when I have more time.

Can you elaborate on how these things have improved your vision? Do they help the static or tracers, or is it more the general haziness they help?

I don't have derealisation you speak of. My visual problems are static, tracers, after images, ghosting, starbursts, halos and others. Things move slighly for me, but it's not too much of a problem.

#7 Orajel

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:38 PM


Omega 3 FISH OIL (4000mg 2x/day)

SAN Dr. Feel Good Multivitamin/Mineral

acetyl l-carnetine (1000-1500mg 1-3x/day)

Choline (500mg 2x/day w/ piracetam) additional 500mg in multi-vitamin, total 1500mg

melatonin (2.5mg before bed)

Vitamineral Green

Ashwagandha (5-600mg 2x/day, at night and in the morning)

Piracetam (2 tsp 2x/day) about 9g total

Sounds like a lot of fish oil, I don't know what the basis for that is. I'm not a fan of piracetam, and 9g sounds like a lot.



I'm going to add sulbutiamine to this and see how that works. Since I've started this (about a week ago) I've noticed improved mood, concentration and memory recall. No sleep disturbances or gastrointestional problems, but nothing spectacular yet. I'm a firm believer that supplementation has to go hand in hand with a healthy lifestyle, so I exervise regularly (aerobic and anerobic), eat healthy and keep my mind and body active. I suffer from lifelong depression, anxiety, panic attacks, and HPPD and am seeking alternatives to traditional medication which i've been largely un-responsive to.

I've tried inositol, 18g a day, without much benefit. I havent tried lysine, how does lysine improve anxiety? I use propranolol before public speaking, its the only thing that's helped me with panic attacks.

Propranol inhibits norepinephrine, which is why it reduces the physical symptoms of anxiety. I'm not really a fan of reducing NE this way because this neurotransmitter has important brain functions such as motivation and feeling of well being. Low levels are implicated with lower energy levels and depression. What you could try in its place is boosting GABA, which would more naturally modulate your NE levels and produce the same anxiolytic effects. Something like theanine 100mg might do the trick as its the only thing I know of that doesn't have tolerance. You can try other things like taurine and magnesium. For something stronger you can try benzos, ie. valium or klonipin, which are probably as dangerous as the propranol you take.



I'm trying to consume 1g of EPA fish oil a day, because several studies on depression that I've read support a dose of no less than 1g of EPA fish oil. 8grams of the fish oil i've been taking is = to about 1g of EPA.

Propranolol does do those things, and does make me feel tired and depressed. I don't take it regularly because of that, but in terms of presentations and public speaking, nothing else has managed to prevent a panic attack. Xanax, klonopin, ativan, valium, theanine, ssri's, diphenhydramine, vistiril. As of now, I no longer use narcotic, abusable substances, so benzodiazapines are no longer an option. Believe me, propranolol was the last stop on the block for me. About 8+ shots of alcohol always did the trick, but being drunk while presenting something doesn't always go over well. I also no longer drink :D

#8 Orajel

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:42 PM

I had thought about vinpocetine too, but had read about some side effects as well and so I'm not taking it at the moment. I'll have to research it further when I have some free time (very busy atm).

Interesting that you mention nicotine - it is something which I had come accross in my research. Again, I need to research it further when I have more time.

Can you elaborate on how these things have improved your vision? Do they help the static or tracers, or is it more the general haziness they help?

I don't have derealisation you speak of. My visual problems are static, tracers, after images, ghosting, starbursts, halos and others. Things move slighly for me, but it's not too much of a problem.


My vision problems sound a lot like your's. How did your's start?
Nicotine and vinpocetine both seemed to sharpen my vision, sort of snap me back into visual reality. Nicotine worked more effectively for me, but as I build a tolerance to nicotine, it becomes less effective. A dose of 5-15 mg of nicotine over about a half hour can really sharpen my vision, and I also use nicotine when I have exams. Thge dose I use for exams is about 2-4 mg in the form of gum, seeing how chewing can enhance cognition.

Aside from that, I'm really at a loss. I'm sort of desperate to fix my vision, but people in the medical community have essentially told me HPPD is untreatable.

#9 user1

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 11:20 PM

My onset came in September (a month after my last use of MDMA) with significant worsening in Decemeber (most likely due to use of MDMA a month prior). First was the static and cell-like floaters looking into the sky, and then a whole host of additional symptoms, both physical and visual, came along a few months later. I had some anxiety when the additional symptoms developed (who wouldn't?!) - but that seems to have resolved. My physical symtoms (headaches, tiredness, muscle spasms) seem to be slowly resolving as well. The only visual resolution which I have had thus far is the potential resolution of is the phosephenes (flashes of light in the form of a view dozen stars sometimes when I make sudden movements of the eyes/neck/head). I don't know if this has resolved, but I haven't experienced it for a couple of weeks. I am doing quite well apart from the massive visual abnormalities.

HPPD can be hard to treat, but is definately NOT untreatable. I had a phone consultation with Dr. Abraham (do you know him? - he is the top dog for HPPD. He is based in Boston and I'm from the UK so phone consultation was the only option), and he told me it may take a few years, but I have a 50% chance of this going away on its own. I am skeptical as I have not found too many reports of it going away with no intervention (although I have found some), but I suppose those who have got better have no reasons to be on the hppd forums etc. So there is hope. If you add medications into the mix, then this provides even more hope, although it is best to overcome it without meds, if possible. I have read many accounts of people treating their HPPD with meds that have provided significant improvement in symptoms. The only downside is SOME of these meds you wouldn't want to be taking long-term unless absolutely necessary - benzos etc.

Good luck, and stay positive.
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#10 Orajel

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 05:19 AM

Hey folks, I've changed a few things up adn am getting some really positive effects from what I'm taking now. The effects, while not stellar half the time, are very noticible the other half. If I can spend my life relaxed, lucid and happy 50% of the time, I'm doing better than most. Mentally I'm more lucid, I have more focus, less anxiety (a huge problem for me), and more energy. Physics (one of my classes) is less daunting after dosing up on the cocktail I've listed below. I haven't noticed any mojor improvements in my memory, so in order to avoid documenting the plecebo effect, I'll leave that out. My life is not the film limitless by any means, but I feel sharp :D I'm taking the following:

Omega 3 FISH OIL 1000mg EPA 500mg DHA

Vitamineral Green (1tbs/day)

acetyl l-carnetine (500mg 2x/day)

Choline (500mg 2x/day w/piracetam)

melatonin (2.5mg before bed)

Ashwagandha (5-600mg 2x/day, at night and in the morning)

Piracetam (2tsp 2x/day, total bout 9grams)

Huperzine-A (50mg in the AM) I'm thinking about upping this to 100mg

Going to add sulbutiamine (3-400mg 2x/day)

SAN Dr. Feel Good Multivitamin/Mineral (contains the following nootropics) N-Acetyl Tyrosine 500 mg Cordyceps Sinensis Extract (7% Cordycepic Acid) 445 mg DMAE Bitartrate 200 mg Gotu Kola Extract (10% Astaticosides) 200 mg Bacopa Monnieri Extract (40% Bacoside Saponins) 100 mg Dimethylglycine HCL (DMG HCL) 100 mg Rhodiola Rosea Extract (3-5% Rosavins) 100 mg Schidandra Extract (2% Schisandrins) 100 mg Ginkgo Biloba Extract (24% Glycosides) 60
(info courtesy of http://www.supplemen...good-224-tablet)

keeping that up with copious amounts of weight training and jogging, and a wheat and dairy free diet. Also, when reviewing the doses keep in mind I'm a pretty big guy (6'1, 200lbs)

Edited by Orajel, 07 March 2012 - 06:10 AM.






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