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Minimizing Negative effects from Cannabis

marijuana cannabis cure ngf creativity

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#1 kevinseven11

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:39 AM


Cannabis
The Powerful effects of cannabis have been long promoted for their nootropic (creativity and ADHD mostly) effects. Source
Although not killing brain cells, cannabinoids have been shown to have negative effects on learning and short term memory.
I think there is a lot of people here just to stabilize their memory problems while on and a few days after consuming weed.
Problems:
Effects from marijuana that certain supplements can improve or fix. The words on the left are the problem and the supplement(s) on the right are potential fixes.

Residual Duration :: Green Tea
THC stores in fat and proposes its short term memory effects for up to a week (source needed).

NGF reduction? (High dose only?) :: Lions Mane
Studies unclear.

Short Term Memory :: Echinacea Purpurea (CBD)
CBD1 agonists inhibit short term memory in a variety of mechanisms. Reversing these might help improve negative effects.

Brain cerebrovascular disease 3' :: Vaporizor?
An undetermined mechanism effect of marijuana smoke has been related to. Most likely increased amounts of carcinogens.

The Terpenes are good and bad.

Benefits:
Raises BDNF 2'
Creativity
Neuroprotective and Anti-oxidant
AChE-inhibitor 1'
Helps to Kill Brain Tumors

Help me complete this with more problems and solutions with studies. Thanks guys! I will update this extensively.

Sources:
1' Link
2' Link 2nd
3' Link

Edited by kevinseven11, 06 March 2012 - 02:44 AM.

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#2 MangekyōPeter

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:35 AM

Nice thread Kevin! :) I will try to think of something useful to add as well.
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#3 Orajel

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:59 AM

Some negatives

Tar and high levels of carcinogenic compounds from inhaling burning matter. Another fact that people ignore: unless your buddy is growing or your heading to a dispensary, people frequently spray cannabis with pestacides. Not the healthiest thing to smoke.

also check if its cut (if you can) nobody wants to accidently get wet smoking a bowl. That happened to me when I was 15, it was a little scary.
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#4 Luminosity

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:50 AM

Kevinseven I like your name but when you need to think about that kind of thing, you need to look into getting professional help to quit taking the stuff. Orajel is right, taking burning matter into your lungs injures them.
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#5 kevinseven11

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 01:59 PM

I Haven't taken the stuff in over a year! Even when I did I would use a vaporizer that only has trace amounts (if that) of smoke. I'm just thinking out for a lot of the community here.

Back on topic, besides CBD, one could consume THCV to counter the effects of short term memory loss. You could simply take THCV before you wanna sleep or after your trip is over. This would also fix the elongated sleep patterns. On top of countering the CB1 induced memory loss, a study on rats showed that It also countered PD. Obtaining THCV is a whole new problem...
::Also Am I not allowed to edit the first post at all?

Edited by kevinseven11, 08 March 2012 - 02:01 PM.


#6 Luminosity

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:45 AM

Not after a certain time period.

It's very hard for your body is clean out the resins from marijuana. There's no magic wand to counteract the damage to your lungs either. Even if you aren't currently taking this drug, this kind of thinking is a concern. There's no magic pill to counteract the negative effects of recreational drugs.

You may not be an addict, but thinking like this is characteristic of addicts. The kind help they need does not come in a pill.

Edited by Luminosity, 09 March 2012 - 05:46 AM.

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#7 kevinseven11

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:02 PM

I don't know if your trolling or not but lets get back on topic! ;)
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#8 MangekyōPeter

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:57 PM

A question -

I am also mostly vaporizing when I smoke (I smoke about thrice a day on average, vaporizing very small amounts) BUT now comes the question that's been on my mind for a while...

I do not have much money so I resort to switching between these 2 methods to vaporize (I hope that this is truly vapor i'm inhaling)

1. Bulb vaporizer (under a candle I slowly vaporize it but sometmies it combusts and burns if i inhale too quickly (but i can see when that happens as the bulb gets filled with actual smoke not vapor)

2. Hot Knifing (On my gas stove, I inhale everything in 1 hit)

but I'm most worried about the hot knifing as I prefer it the most due to it being the most economic way of smoking.

But this info taken from wiki worries me

Users spotting cannabis are susceptible to all the associated health risks of other methods of smoking cannabis. Spotting cannabis oil or resin is thought to be particularly harmful to the lungs, as the smoke comes off the oil at such a high temperature.


And yeah most of the time the plant matter burns as well I mean it turns black sort of the same way that it does when i smoke out of the bulb but yeah i can see why it might be less healthy... but is it still not considered vaporizing...

Edited by marekso, 09 March 2012 - 02:58 PM.


#9 gamesguru

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:42 PM

The knife/light bulb shouldn't be more than ~420F. Don't heat them too much. Most cannabinoids and essential oils vaporize around 340-390F, but if you go much higher, you'll start to get more carcinogens. In vapor, produced around 350F, there are two known carcinogens, whilst in smoke, produced above 500F, there are 118 known carcinogens.

#10 MangekyōPeter

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 06:48 PM

thanks for clearing it up dasheenster, :) am feeling relieved.. :D

#11 kevinseven11

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:28 AM

Have the decency to buy a $30 vaporizer on amazon! Stop being a ghetto criminal!
BACK TO TOPIC ha.. :laugh:
We have two routes we can go with protecting memory loss.
1 inverse agonize cb1 receptors after the trip to reverse most effects
2 correct most problems associated with cb1 agonists.

route 2 has a few problems. First off, there are too many effects from cb1 that are too difficult and unknown to correct. Secondly this from wikipedia

"While the coexpression of GABAergic and glutamatergic neurons in the hippocampus would suggest that the net effects of cannabinoid release would cancel each other out, it is possible that selective synthesis of endocannabinoids based on the type of receptor activated allows the brain to weaken specific synapses while others are enhanced.


While I feel glutamate would only help in this situation, I have yet to look at studies.

As for route 2 There are 2 possible candidates Rimonabant (failed fda due to depression and suicidal thoughts) but wiki has the reaction steps :|?
THCV also can be used to help improve Cannabinoid receptor downregulation which most likely causes memory loss. Link

#12 MangekyōPeter

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:14 PM

Haha kevinseven,
I have bought one for 30$ before on ebay and it practically exploded in my face the second time i plugged it in to actually use it haha, so i've now grown scared of the cheap one's and am thinking that if i'm gonna buy a vaporizer i'd just get the volcano..

#13 gamesguru

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:17 PM

Do not buy the volcano. It is made with cheap materials and not very durable. If anything, make your own using high temp tubing, a thermometer, screens, and a high quality heat gun. It will cost about $70 to make one from scratch which will last years longer than the volcano. You can find many guides online describing how to make your own vaporizer, but this is forum is not designed for such discussions. With many threads about cannabis floating around, I am surprised not to see the mods taking a stance.

#14 kevinseven11

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:14 AM

Perhaps i'm going to start a supplement out of this :laugh:
I need more support from the community though... I badly need help determining dosages though ill end up doing that myself ha!
Short-term Memory
Piper guineense (57% Caryophyllene) Role:CB 2 agonist Safe Dose: x<10g (~100mg myristicin may cause hallucinations)

Carrots (24.1 mg/kg 2' Falcarinol) Role:CB1 Inverse agonist Safe Dose: x<9.64g (Over 880 Pounds of carrots at once)1'

Cinnamomum verum (61.6% 4' Cinnamic Aldehyde + 10% Caryophyllene) Role:CB 1 Inverse Agonist, CB2 Agonist Safe Dose: x<275 mg/kg (.2% Coumarin(toxic))

Next Post I will have a complete post of dosage of every ingredient :)
*Store cooled and out of sunlight (studies say)

1' Source
2' Source
3' Source
4' Source

Edited by kevinseven11, 12 March 2012 - 02:46 AM.

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#15 kevinseven11

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:46 AM

With no support from the community Im hesitant to release dosages.
For safety reasons let me tell you guys that Piper guineense extracts and Cinnamomum extracts capable of reversing medium dose thc are not safe enough in their dose.
Pipper Guineense requires 26g to counter 60 mg THC (cannabis has more than just THC acting as a CB1 agonist). Cinnamomum aparently can only be taken a few teaspoons a day.
This supplement has potential, contact me of reply to this thread if you want to further this. If not Im pursuing this else where.*

Edited by kevinseven11, 14 March 2012 - 12:48 AM.


#16 Luminosity

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 04:37 AM

That trolling remark was uncalled for. You CANNOT simply reverse the adverse effects of marijuana with other substances. Only an addict would even think that way because reality DOES not work that way.
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#17 kevinseven11

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:47 AM

I'm waiting for studies or evidence, not crazy (my opinion) ideas about an illegal substance? :wacko: Inverse agonists have been shown to reverse the effects of agonists. Carcinogens are only in smoked products and this assumes vaporized or edible cannabis is used. Studies show the mental effects from chronic marijuana use subside within months of cessation on their own!
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#18 gamesguru

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:29 PM

That trolling remark was uncalled for. You CANNOT simply reverse the adverse effects of marijuana with other substances. Only an addict would even think that way because reality DOES not work that way.

Are you one of the people who attribute Sagan's wits to his genes and his myelodysplasia to his drug use? There is an shred of hatred toward drug users visible in your post, and it seems like you have virtually no understanding of how cannabis actually affects the body. Are all users abusers? What about indigenous people who've used psychoactives for thousands of years? Are they just as crazy as white men who use drugs?
In any case, you've said at least one falsehood: rimonabant does reverse the adverse effects marijuana has on memory (at least SOME,if not most, of them). Who's the troll now?

Not after a certain time period.

It's very hard for your body is clean out the resins from marijuana. There's no magic wand to counteract the damage to your lungs either. Even if you aren't currently taking this drug, this kind of thinking is a concern. There's no magic pill to counteract the negative effects of recreational drugs.

You may not be an addict, but thinking like this is characteristic of addicts. The kind help they need does not come in a pill.

Some of the essential oils have therapeutic effects, but, of course, many have negative effects...which is to expected of EVERY chemical you ingest. Each chemical has different faces, just like people. You think anything is totally good for your body? Well, by jolly, that's good news! Then only ingest good foods and you're health will improve! But really, you'll see, after your health fails to change very much, that what you thought were healthy supplements weren't so healthy after all.

Thinking like this is characteristic of addicts? Look, we understand your concern. You don't want to lose another mind to marijuana. Have you ever considered that some people have enough self-discipline to use pot only on Friday/Saturday nights, and that they really don't need to be called an addict or lectured? Also, keep in mind we're not talking about methamphetamine here. No conclusive link between cannabis use and neuronal death has been established, yet.

#19 Mace_Windu

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 04:29 PM

You may not be an addict, but thinking like this is characteristic of addicts. The kind help they need does not come in a pill.

Some of the essential oils have therapeutic effects, but, of course, many have negative effects...which is to expected of EVERY chemical you ingest. Each chemical has different faces, just like people. You think anything is totally good for your body? Well, by jolly, that's good news! Then only ingest good foods and you're health will improve! But really, you'll see, after your health fails to change very much, that what you thought were healthy supplements weren't so healthy after all.

Thinking like this is characteristic of addicts? Look, we understand your concern. You don't want to lose another mind to marijuana. Have you ever considered that some people have enough self-discipline to use pot only on Friday/Saturday nights, and that they really don't need to be called an addict or lectured? Also, keep in mind we're not talking about methamphetamine here. No conclusive link between cannabis use and neuronal death has been established, yet.



G'day. I'm a recent (ab)user of the leaf - daily for almost five years, regular for 15 years, always in evenings after work and before bed during the week but constant (wake and bake...) on weekends. Stumbled on Longecity looking for information on Choline supplementation. Will i use again in the future? Less than 10% chance. I have not enjoyed the feeling for several months and now view it as a prolonged "angry young man" phase through which I've passed. I'm also aware that when I smoke I disconnect to the "Fortress of Solitude" and that's counter-productive to my life goals. I started using as a result of anxiety but I have constructive ways to manage that now.

You've both made some very valid points, I hope passion does not turn this to flame wars and trump measured deliberation. I am following this thread with keen interest.

Dasheenster, I agree with Luminosity (respectfully) that this type of thought pattern is characteristic of the addict's mind but i will admit it could me my prejudice and having thought this way in the past.

Luminosity, I also agree with Dasheenster that if one can manage use and use Fri/Sat night and not touch the stash during the week then this is not abuse. I used to be that way with cigarettes - I bought a pack of 20 driving downtown to go nightclubbing, would smoke freely while partying and then I would toss the pack out of the window of the car on the off ramp when I got back to the 'burbs. I would not smoke during the week.

My goals were initially twofold:

1. mitigate effects of long-term use
2. manage any potential mood issues from quitting

I am intrigued by Piracetam and will continue to delve into the threads on creating a stack and may try this eventually.

Effects I have observed in the last 10 days:
1) better sleep - dreams are becoming more lucid and regular and I wake up feeling refreshed.
2) less anxiety - I am prone to anxiety and I know this is something of which I must be mindful. I've learned to manage it with CBT.
3) improved short term memory - Can't remember having walked into a room and forgotten what I'm there for since i stopped ;-) This was becoming more noticeable over the last few months, fueling my anxiety... My concentration has improved as well.
4) more sociable - I am better able to relate to people. I went through group IPT 6 years ago and this is helping as well.

Thanks very much to all of you for erudite - and even the impassioned ;-) posts. I have found something of interest in almost every post in this thread. Kinda quick for a first post, i hope I have not broken any forums rules.

(now, this newbie is back to researching choline supplementation to mitigate and reverse the effect of pot smoking on short term memory).

#20 kevinseven11

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:46 PM

http://jpet.aspetjou...3/1067.full.pdf
Study on Rimonabant reversing memory loss^

Mace_windu your abuse seems quite extended.
Why does this kind of thinking require one to be addicted to marijuana?
Perhaps you guys don't believe my cessation, but I'd think its more of a helping type thing for addicts or for money.

Why can I not edit the first page I posted on guys?

#21 gamesguru

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:55 PM

We all know a majority of addicts are in some form of denial, one form being that of minimization, whereby the patient resolves his cognitive dissonance with regard to the harm of drug use by rationalizing ways to avert the negative effects. Regardless of whether these aversion tactics work, the patient feels confident thanks to the minimization. Do you really think the best way to handle this is to accuse them (publicly?) of being in denial? There are some who would say that simply adds fuel to the fire and worsens dissonance, whereas others would say it bursts their bubble and reminds them of reality.

You're in a catch 22. If you think the person is in denial, why would you try to tell them this? It's like trying to tell an ignorant man that he's ignorant, or a stupid man that he's stupid. I try only to advise people who I think are very rationally-minded, since of all people, this group responds best to advice. I can't force you to leave this guy alone, but I will warn you...this won't go far.

Edit: you can't edit because the system only lets you edit for like 30 minutes. I don't understand it exactly, but you can't edit after your post has been read a certain number or times or has been visible for a certain amount of time, or someone has made a post in the topic after the one you wish to edit.

Edit2:

Perhaps you guys don't believe my cessation, but I'd think its more of a helping type thing for addicts or for money.

There. He's admitted he's either doing this to help others and his affair with cannabis is long over, or he's confabulating so he doesn't have to admit he's in denial. In either case, you're NOT going to accomplish anything by arguing with him about his personal use...so please, enough attacks in this thread. Let's keep this about information, not about people.

Edited by dasheenster, 14 March 2012 - 06:13 PM.


#22 Mace_Windu

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:28 PM

We all know a majority of addicts are in some form of denial, one form being that of minimization, whereby the patient resolves his cognitive dissonance with regard to the harm of drug use by rationalizing ways to avert the negative effects. Regardless of whether these aversion tactics work, the patient feels confident thanks to the minimization. Do you really think the best way to handle this is to accuse them (publicly?) of being in denial? There are some who would say that simply adds fuel to the fire and worsens dissonance, whereas others would say it bursts their bubble and reminds them of reality.



Edit2:

Perhaps you guys don't believe my cessation, but I'd think its more of a helping type thing for addicts or for money.

There. He's admitted he's either doing this to help others and his affair with cannabis is long over, or he's confabulating so he doesn't have to admit he's in denial. In either case, you're NOT going to accomplish anything by arguing with him about his personal use...so please, enough attacks in this thread. Let's keep this about information, not about people.


Hi kevinseven,
I`m offering comments based on my - as you pointed out - extended abuse and the experience I gained from it. And yes, I am able to admit now that I was in denial for a long time. As you can see I am new here and assure you am neither criticizing, proselytizing nor accusing anyone of being an addict. I most certainly am not questioning their experience(s) either. And thanks for the link the JPET study, I've just scanned the abstract and discussion.

I agree wholeheartedly with dasheenster, all addicts are in some form of denial. Time for this ex-smoker to continue researching and learning - hopefully no confabulation ;) , or I'm in truly bad way...

#23 Spectre

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:26 PM

Low dose naltrexone, it will restore short term memory and general brain function the following day after smoking pot. I know from experience. You may also consider trying some intranasal vasopressin as THC inhibits its release.

#24 kevinseven11

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:38 AM

Are you sure its naltrexone? http://www.ncbi.nlm....5?dopt=Abstract
claims it doesn't restore memory?
If so perhaps naltrexone has added ingredients.

Edited by kevinseven11, 17 March 2012 - 12:39 AM.


#25 Spectre

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:02 AM

In my experience, it didn't increase memory the same day I smoked cannabis, but the brain fog I would generally experience the few days after using cannabis would completely disappear while I took the kappa blocker (in my case naloxone, not naltrexone, but they work on the same receptor systems). I have a theory that over time, THC affects the kappa-opioid receptor system in some fashion, which leads to depersonalization disorder (which causes memory impairment and anxiety on top of other negative effects). Kappa blockers will negate these negative effects and bring clarity back to mind.

#26 gamesguru

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:55 PM

In my experience, it didn't increase memory the same day I smoked cannabis, but the brain fog I would generally experience the few days after using cannabis would completely disappear while I took the kappa blocker (in my case naloxone, not naltrexone, but they work on the same receptor systems). I have a theory that over time, THC affects the kappa-opioid receptor system in some fashion, which leads to depersonalization disorder (which causes memory impairment and anxiety on top of other negative effects). Kappa blockers will negate these negative effects and bring clarity back to mind.

You might be right that cannabis is involved with κ-opioid receptors: (http://www.cannabis....oids/index.html [not the most reliable source, needs to be confirmed]).


About the relation to depersonalization:

From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia....zation_disorder):

Naloxone (strong μ-opioid receptor antagonist, weak κ- and δ-opioid receptor antagonist) and naltrexone (strong "competitive antagonists at μ- and κ-opioid receptors, and to a lesser extent at δ-opioid receptors")have both been studied for the treatment of depersonalization disorder. In a 2001 study with naloxone, three of fourteen patients lost their depersonalization symptoms entirely, and seven showed marked improvement [1] . The findings of a 2005 naltrexone study were slightly less promising, with an average of a 30% reduction of symptoms, as measured by 3 validated dissociation scales [2]. The more dramatic result of naloxone versus naltrexone is suspected to be due to different endogenous opioid receptor selectivity in naloxone, which is better suited to individuals suffering from depersonalization disorder.


According to your theory, norbinaltorphimine (a highly selective κ-opioid receptor antagonist) would do best for depersonalization. There's not too much about that topic, but here is a good review that's fairly recent: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2740476/.

Edited by dasheenster, 17 March 2012 - 05:04 PM.


#27 Thorsten3

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:39 PM

Haven't had time to read the thread but cannabis always causes floppy dick syndrome for me (usually at about three joints per day). I would count this as a serious flaw for any man.

It normally takes about a month of chronic use for these effects to appear in my case. Kinda scary really as it really illustrated for me how bad smoking (of any kind) is for me. I definitely have no interest in going near this stuff again. This might not happen to everyone but I noticed quite a few anecdotals across the internet on the issue so it does happen.

#28 gamesguru

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:00 AM

Haven't had time to read the thread but cannabis always causes floppy dick syndrome for me (usually at about three joints per day). I would count this as a serious flaw for any man.

It normally takes about a month of chronic use for these effects to appear in my case. Kinda scary really as it really illustrated for me how bad smoking (of any kind) is for me. I definitely have no interest in going near this stuff again. This might not happen to everyone but I noticed quite a few anecdotals across the internet on the issue so it does happen.

This has been a controversial issue since the 70s.

See this early study: http://www.sciencema...4297/1472.short.


See this more contemporary study:

...modest cannabis doses are able to increase plasma testosterone but that high doses lower testosterone below baseline [32,33]. While these findings seem interesting, the exact mechanism on how cannabis lowers plasma testosterone levels is not known. Also, other studies could not report similar findings [34–36].


Cannabis has also been associated with testicular/penile cancers, but this mechanism is not fully understood. No wonder there's a fair amount of hype that Cannabis is bad for male health.

#29 MangekyōPeter

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:05 AM

I've never had any problems with my winkle from smoking Cannabis, but that's just me. (well maybe if i'm utterly hyperhigh barely understanding what my eyes are perceiving, haha)

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#30 Orajel

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:34 AM

cannabis can be very theraputic, but there are negatives that people simply don't account for. I made a post earlier in this thread about contaminants in cannabis and it didn't go over well, so I'm making the point again because it is incredibly important to account for. Don't take my word for it, educate yourself:

http://www.baycitize...cides-your-pot/

http://www.examiner....-and-pesticides

http://www.cannabism...t/contaminants/

http://www.hempfood....A/iha01205.html

http://adai.washingt...ntamination.htm

Cannabis usually has other compounds present in it, and that is a fact. The same thing happens with multi-vitamins, many are contaminated with lead and cadmium, and other toxic compounds. This is real people, and it cannot be ignored.

Nobody has ever died from smoking pot... I had a friend in high school who smoked a joint cut with pcp. She had a grand maul seizure and died. As far as she knew, she was smoking pot. Or, how about this:

"Recently in the United Kingdom there have been reports of glass beads being added from a spray to increase the weight of the plant and mimic the appearance of greater potency. Separate reports from Germany of lead particles being added to increase weight have also more recently appeared. These occurrences, although rare, are of great concern and have resulted in hospitalisations." (http://adai.washingt...ntamination.htm)

Based on this information, which all popped up after about 3 minutes of google searches, cannabis can be contaminated with fungus, mold, herbicides, pesticides, compounds to increase weight (LEAD and GLASS BEADS), and microbials. I can tell you from my personal experience that growers will practically water their plants with pesticides to keep the little black bugs off their crop. Pot is big $ for everyone involved, including dispensaries. This is real people, know whats going on here.
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