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Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

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94 replies to this topic

#31 sartac

  • Location:Georgia, US

Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:12 AM

Phenibut. I've used this on special occasions and plan for the withdrawal. Maybe this was mentioned somewhere, can't be arsed to read. Testosterone was - that's also nice and not without significant drawbacks.

Agreed on the above about not seeking some passive cure.
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#32 SocietyOfMind Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Cape Town, South Africa

Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:25 AM

Does lexapro work using a quick once-off dose? I thought there is an induction phase.

I nailed a Masters thesis defence using propranolol. It works very well. It basically prevents the physical symptoms (sweating, trembling, etc.) which tend to spiral down if one is aware of them. I've used it in music performance situations too, and it is undeniably useful. There's no blockage of the creative / mental process, while muscle control and execution are improved. Honestly, it sounds exactly like what you need. There is definitely a "memory rewriting" effect, too - I've noticed that I can get into similar stressful situations WITHOUT being on propranolol, and somehow my brain remembers that it doesn't have to be anxious.

I would avoid it before doing anything physically strenuous, though - your heart rate won't rise adequately to meet physical challenges.

I wouldn't call this "self confidence" in a pill, though - it's more simple relief from the physical trappings of anxiety - which may be good enough. Self confidence is still a mental process and dynamic of interaction. The best form of self confidence is to believe whatever you're saying.

Edited by SocietyOfMind, 27 March 2012 - 09:32 AM.

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#33 niner Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:59 AM

SocietyOfMind nailed it. Good post.
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#34 peterpu Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:german<

Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:32 PM

@SocietyOfMind
how much did you take and how much time before you hold your master thesis? did you notice any mood change (in a bad fashion) or something else? speaking ablility normal?

@all
is it a problem to combine piracetam with propranolol?

thanks

Edited by peterpu, 27 March 2012 - 07:33 PM.

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#35 sartac Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Georgia, US

Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:49 PM

Does lexapro work using a quick once-off dose? I thought there is an induction phase.


IME, it's subtle and builds up to what was described earlier as caring less about shit. At 10mg/d, anyway. Took a few weeks to notice here. Have also felt an occasional positive "high" sensation, kind of a light tingling affect in the head. But I generally take remeron also @ 15mg/d. Who knows.

Good stuff about propranolol, thanks.
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#36 caruga Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:England

Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:23 AM

I am not saying that things are merely biological, what I am saying that if one has both a system that responds badly to stress, and has had it hard socially. Then I dont believe in talk therapy. These people will soon enough be vulnerable because they are getting the wrong kind of therapy, therapy that doesnt build real reciliance. Although psychological reciliance lasts only so long, one needs to be fit also otherwise the stressresponse gets too much to handle if the situation gets out of hand. Not all can be fighters, not all can be leaders. Thats the way things are!


Agreed. I believe body-language gives off signals that show off the worth of ones genetic material. You can't fake it, it will get out in the end. When evaluating mating prospects this is always a factor. A man passes down two things: his gene-quality and his virtues (or lack thereof, and only when he sticks around). Men who can obtain sex promiscuously are usually high in the former--so high that a woman will forego his lack of the latter; these men are able to feel 'good without reason' to a high degree and it is infectious (to a woman; they'll use it to dominate other men). Reclusive men who don't cope well socially, feel withdrawn and irrationally shy 'without reason'. It doesn't matter how smart you are if you feel fundamentally unhealthy, lacking in vitality and mettle, and can't deal with stress. These are physiological things. The most psychology can do is influence your 'filters' by which you process information to help minimise what stress actually gets through. That's a real benefit, but that's as far as it can help. It can also pump you up and give you a bit of momentum, only to crash later when the incongruency between your behaviour and your body grows too much. And if your information processing ability is weak then that will get bombarded as well. Therapy can't overcome these limitations.

Nature/nurture should never have been a debate. It depends on the context.

Edited by caruga, 28 March 2012 - 03:27 AM.

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#37 Logan Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Arlington, VA

Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:39 AM

I am not saying that things are merely biological, what I am saying that if one has both a system that responds badly to stress, and has had it hard socially. Then I dont believe in talk therapy. These people will soon enough be vulnerable because they are getting the wrong kind of therapy, therapy that doesnt build real reciliance. Although psychological reciliance lasts only so long, one needs to be fit also otherwise the stressresponse gets too much to handle if the situation gets out of hand. Not all can be fighters, not all can be leaders. Thats the way things are!


Agreed. I believe body-language gives off signals that show off the worth of ones genetic material. You can't fake it, it will get out in the end. When evaluating mating prospects this is always a factor. A man passes down two things: his gene-quality and his virtues (or lack thereof, and only when he sticks around). Men who can obtain sex promiscuously are usually high in the former--so high that a woman will forego his lack of the latter; these men are able to feel 'good without reason' to a high degree and it is infectious (to a woman; they'll use it to dominate other men). Reclusive men who don't cope well socially, feel withdrawn and irrationally shy 'without reason'. It doesn't matter how smart you are if you feel fundamentally unhealthy, lacking in vitality and mettle, and can't deal with stress. These are physiological things. The most psychology can do is influence your 'filters' by which you process information to help minimise what stress actually gets through. That's a real benefit, but that's as far as it can help. It can also pump you up and give you a bit of momentum, only to crash later when the incongruency between your behaviour and your body grows too much. And if your information processing ability is weak then that will get bombarded as well. Therapy can't overcome these limitations.

Nature/nurture should never have been a debate. It depends on the context.


Lol, wow, you guys just do not understand the complexity of what is going on with the human psyche and how things can be healed permanently. It's really kinda sad. But, it is expected on a site like this.
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#38 Andrey_81 Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:-

Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:14 AM

I would like to point out that my mother is bi-polar, and she had phases when she was extremely depressed and then extremely manic. Now she is taking lithium and some other pills (seroquel) and for the past 5 yeas she feels great without any manic or depression phases. It seams that I am genetically predetermined to have some problems, and maybe all this is happening due to my genetic precondition. I have some minor episodes, sometimes I am full of confidence and sometimes completely opposite. Is it possible, and how, intentionally cause this manic phase? I like myself more and I feel better when I'm a bit manic. When I say manic, I really don't mean highly manic. It is just a phase when I'm totally confided and have no feel of fear. The caffeine use to make me hyper, but I stopped taking coffee.
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#39 Now Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Netherlands.

Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:25 AM

Studies of happiness across several countries have begun in recent years, testing the true limits of our hedonic set point. Several studies have concluded that up to 50% of our happiness level is genetic. This is what researchers are considering the main attribute in determining our happiness set point. The three primary factors making up a three factor model that determine our happiness can be broken down into a rough scale with Intentional Activity accounting for 40% and outside circumstances accounting for the last 10%, where genetics covers the largest 50% portion.
Source: Wikipedia.

I think there is a similar model for self-confidence. I think it is worth a try If you can boost the 40% somewhat through therapy and intentional actions (physical exercise can help).

Edited by Now, 28 March 2012 - 08:29 AM.

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#40 Thorsten2 Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Bristol, UK

Posted 28 March 2012 - 09:25 AM


I am not saying that things are merely biological, what I am saying that if one has both a system that responds badly to stress, and has had it hard socially. Then I dont believe in talk therapy. These people will soon enough be vulnerable because they are getting the wrong kind of therapy, therapy that doesnt build real reciliance. Although psychological reciliance lasts only so long, one needs to be fit also otherwise the stressresponse gets too much to handle if the situation gets out of hand. Not all can be fighters, not all can be leaders. Thats the way things are!


Agreed. I believe body-language gives off signals that show off the worth of ones genetic material. You can't fake it, it will get out in the end. When evaluating mating prospects this is always a factor. A man passes down two things: his gene-quality and his virtues (or lack thereof, and only when he sticks around). Men who can obtain sex promiscuously are usually high in the former--so high that a woman will forego his lack of the latter; these men are able to feel 'good without reason' to a high degree and it is infectious (to a woman; they'll use it to dominate other men). Reclusive men who don't cope well socially, feel withdrawn and irrationally shy 'without reason'. It doesn't matter how smart you are if you feel fundamentally unhealthy, lacking in vitality and mettle, and can't deal with stress. These are physiological things. The most psychology can do is influence your 'filters' by which you process information to help minimise what stress actually gets through. That's a real benefit, but that's as far as it can help. It can also pump you up and give you a bit of momentum, only to crash later when the incongruency between your behaviour and your body grows too much. And if your information processing ability is weak then that will get bombarded as well. Therapy can't overcome these limitations.

Nature/nurture should never have been a debate. It depends on the context.


Lol, wow, you guys just do not understand the complexity of what is going on with the human psyche and how things can be healed permanently. It's really kinda sad. But, it is expected on a site like this.


What do you mean 'on a site like this'? I think we're all quite an open minded bunch here and we're certainly not obsessed with pharmaceutical options although for some of us there is little other option. If you are unhappy with the site and the people who post, why are you here?

I'm on Lexapro as well but I also consider therapy to be pretty crucial. Lexapro is very helpful for me and has indeed given me greater confidence in my life. It has its caveats but so does every drug and I have learnt just to accept this and try to live my life the best I can.

I think the post you were responding to there was actually a great analysis of how things are. I do think females are hard wired in picking up signals from males. Men who are being ravished by stress and depression must stick out a mile and I guess the female would avoid them at all costs. Females aren't attracted to unconfident guys. I guess therapy can help you heal but it can only take you so far. For people like myself who have suffered with major depression for 15yrs medication is a relevant part of the jigsaw and always will be until they work out the causes of my illness.
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#41 caruga Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:England

Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:18 AM

Lol, wow, you guys just do not understand the complexity of what is going on with the human psyche and how things can be healed permanently. It's really kinda sad. But, it is expected on a site like this.


Go and get your manners healed then. I believe in you.
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#42 Andrey_81 Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:-

Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:22 PM

Wow! I have just took 10 mg of propranolol before one meeting I had :) Oh my god! What a great feeling. It seams that this was the answer on my question and exactly what I needed.

I had a meeting scheduled for 13:00, and I wanted to take 10 mg of propranolol (for the first time in my life) half hour before the meeting. But something changed in the schedule and I was surprised that the meeting started at 12:30. I took the pill and the magic happened extremely fast (3-5 minutes). 10 minutes later I was completely different person, without any fear and totally confident. Usually, it is hard for me to speak, I feel like I will cry. All this disappeared in 5 minutes. Just amazing. I couldn't feel the heartbeat, I was so calm and confident. My brain worked perfectly, but my body was completely stress free :)

I'm planing to go to gym after work. I usually go 3 times a week. Can I go in the gym even though I took 10 mg of propranolol? I'm worried because I know the heart needs to beat faster when working out, but because I'm on the beta blocker will this affect my breathing or will the blood be pumped ok still? I took a small dose, but I'm still afraid of possible side effects.

Thank you all for help.

Edited by Andrey_81, 28 March 2012 - 02:31 PM.

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#43 dasheenster Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:USA

Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:37 PM

Quit relying on drugs for problems you can resolve through discipline and diligence. Do you guys really plan to carry popranolol with you when your a frail, old man? Even if you only use it occasionally, for conferences/interviews for example, I still think there is a high chance of psychological dependence developing. Think about it: during important parts of your life, you are stricken with anxiety, to the point of fear, so you start using a magic pill every time you have to speak in front of people. Am I the only one who STRONGLY doubts that propanolol use will allow a person to develop a natural superiority to anxiety? In the long haul, I don't think you'll overcome your anxiety by covering up its symptoms.

Logan rejected CBT in favor of psychodynamic therapy. He didn't make much of a distinction, and I get the feeling he's too angry to communicate efficiently. The amount of drama on this board is pathetic. If you want my opinion, get through it yourself...don't rely on drugs or on other people, because even the best medications and the best therapists have their limitations, and even perhaps their absurdities, while self-discipline theoretically has infinite potential.
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#44 hippocampus Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:medial temporal lobe, brain

Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:10 PM

Studies of happiness across several countries have begun in recent years, testing the true limits of our hedonic set point. Several studies have concluded that up to 50% of our happiness level is genetic. This is what researchers are considering the main attribute in determining our happiness set point. The three primary factors making up a three factor model that determine our happiness can be broken down into a rough scale with Intentional Activity accounting for 40% and outside circumstances accounting for the last 10%, where genetics covers the largest 50% portion.
Source: Wikipedia.

I think there is a similar model for self-confidence. I think it is worth a try If you can boost the 40% somewhat through therapy and intentional actions (physical exercise can help).

well, that only explains how much of variance in happiness in general population can be explained by genetics/intentional activity/circumstances. it doesn't give you any information about how much you can boost your happiness with any kind of therapy/drugs/whatever. you can boost your happiness by 300% even if you have "bad" genes (at least in theory).
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#45 Andrey_81 Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:-

Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:10 PM

Quit relying on drugs for problems you can resolve through discipline and diligence. Do you guys really plan to carry popranolol with you when your a frail, old man? Even if you only use it occasionally, for conferences/interviews for example, I still think there is a high chance of psychological dependence developing. Think about it: during important parts of your life, you are stricken with anxiety, to the point of fear, so you start using a magic pill every time you have to speak in front of people. Am I the only one who STRONGLY doubts that propanolol use will allow a person to develop a natural superiority to anxiety? In the long haul, I don't think you'll overcome your anxiety by covering up its symptoms.

Logan rejected CBT in favor of psychodynamic therapy. He didn't make much of a distinction, and I get the feeling he's too angry to communicate efficiently. The amount of drama on this board is pathetic. If you want my opinion, get through it yourself...don't rely on drugs or on other people, because even the best medications and the best therapists have their limitations, and even perhaps their absurdities, while self-discipline theoretically has infinite potential.


I agree with you and I would be the happiest person in the world if I could also say that loud what you pointed out. You have no idea what I'mI going through, and probably many of us. Yes, from now on I will really carry propranolol with me and I will use it in order to act as every normal human in situations that used to be so easy for me to handle in the past. Don't know what happened to me, cant find the reason, but I will rather choose 10-20 mg of propranolol a month for the rest of my life then have one more panic attack of being so anxious and frightened in normal everyday situations (meeting, interview, public speech, presentation...). I think its makes no sense to judge someones behavior because you have probably never experienced something like me. It's easy to say 'don't rely on drugs'. Yes, I'm doing my best to stay calm and 'normal' but my body is not listening no matter how hard I try. Nothing helped.
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#46 Logan Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Arlington, VA

Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:19 PM

Studies of happiness across several countries have begun in recent years, testing the true limits of our hedonic set point. Several studies have concluded that up to 50% of our happiness level is genetic. This is what researchers are considering the main attribute in determining our happiness set point. The three primary factors making up a three factor model that determine our happiness can be broken down into a rough scale with Intentional Activity accounting for 40% and outside circumstances accounting for the last 10%, where genetics covers the largest 50% portion.
Source: Wikipedia.

I think there is a similar model for self-confidence. I think it is worth a try If you can boost the 40% somewhat through therapy and intentional actions (physical exercise can help).


Exactly-That 40 or 50 percent you should have gotten by recieving the right amount of love and nurture from mom and dad but did not. If you think you're parents did the job they needed, and were able to give you the kind of unconditional love, encouragement, and affection you needed, you're probably in deep denial. That's another reason to have an open mind and find a good therapist and good therapy group-these are some of the only ways, and often the only way to unlock people from the chains of denial(the most powerful coping mechanism we have)
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#47 Logan Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Arlington, VA

Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:22 PM

Quit relying on drugs for problems you can resolve through discipline and diligence. Do you guys really plan to carry popranolol with you when your a frail, old man? Even if you only use it occasionally, for conferences/interviews for example, I still think there is a high chance of psychological dependence developing. Think about it: during important parts of your life, you are stricken with anxiety, to the point of fear, so you start using a magic pill every time you have to speak in front of people. Am I the only one who STRONGLY doubts that propanolol use will allow a person to develop a natural superiority to anxiety? In the long haul, I don't think you'll overcome your anxiety by covering up its symptoms.

Logan rejected CBT in favor of psychodynamic therapy. He didn't make much of a distinction, and I get the feeling he's too angry to communicate efficiently. The amount of drama on this board is pathetic. If you want my opinion, get through it yourself...don't rely on drugs or on other people, because even the best medications and the best therapists have their limitations, and even perhaps their absurdities, while self-discipline theoretically has infinite potential.


I can have an angry approach here. I think if you met me in person you would see some anger, but it would be expressed more in a passionate way instead of an attacking way. If you read my last post, I believe I do mention that CBT can be valuable. I did not reject it at all. I just said that the work you do wit CBT is more like a band aide than a permanent fix.
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#48 Logan Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Arlington, VA

Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:26 PM


Lol, wow, you guys just do not understand the complexity of what is going on with the human psyche and how things can be healed permanently. It's really kinda sad. But, it is expected on a site like this.


Go and get your manners healed then. I believe in you.


LOL..Well that shouldn't matter. I just think a lot of you guys are young, so you have not had the time, or experience, to figure out the complexity of things, that's all. I'm sorry you take someone you don't even know making comments on the internet so personally.

In person, I am much gentler. So, maybe you are right, maybe I should change the way I communicate with some people here at times.
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#49 caruga Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:England

Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:52 PM



Lol, wow, you guys just do not understand the complexity of what is going on with the human psyche and how things can be healed permanently. It's really kinda sad. But, it is expected on a site like this.


Go and get your manners healed then. I believe in you.


LOL..Well that shouldn't matter. I just think a lot of you guys are young, so you have not had the time, or experience, to figure out the complexity of things, that's all. I'm sorry you take someone you don't even know making comments on the internet so personally.

In person, I am much gentler. So, maybe you are right, maybe I should change the way I communicate with some people here at times.


I'm not sure what sort of reaction you expect, or what you hope to accomplish, when you tell people that they are ignorant without any further explanation, or why you think that's something a wise person does. All I read are obnoxious assurances of how our knowledge is inferior to your own. The sound of a flatulent air-bag, perhaps?
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#50 Logan Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Arlington, VA

Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:14 PM




Lol, wow, you guys just do not understand the complexity of what is going on with the human psyche and how things can be healed permanently. It's really kinda sad. But, it is expected on a site like this.


Go and get your manners healed then. I believe in you.


LOL..Well that shouldn't matter. I just think a lot of you guys are young, so you have not had the time, or experience, to figure out the complexity of things, that's all. I'm sorry you take someone you don't even know making comments on the internet so personally.

In person, I am much gentler. So, maybe you are right, maybe I should change the way I communicate with some people here at times.


I'm not sure what sort of reaction you expect, or what you hope to accomplish, when you tell people that they are ignorant without any further explanation, or why you think that's something a wise person does. All I read are obnoxious assurances of how our knowledge is inferior to your own. The sound of a flatulent air-bag, perhaps?


Haha, perhaps. I guess I believe, that if one really takes a step back, and has the courage to dig deep, think deeply, and examine some things, they will start to realize how deeply and permanently we are impacted by our childhood. I will post studies soon. I don't have time right now. You could start to do some research. Why not? The fact is, between the ages of 1 and 5, what happens as far as nurture-emotional, physical, diet, etc.-is absolutely crucial to a child's development and how they turn out in the long run. What happens beyone those years is crucial as well, just not quite as much.
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#51 dasheenster Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:USA

Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:01 PM

I can have an angry approach here. I think if you met me in person you would see some anger, but it would be expressed more in a passionate way instead of an attacking way. If you read my last post, I believe I do mention that CBT can be valuable. I did not reject it at all. I just said that the work you do wit CBT is more like a band aide than a permanent fix.

I suppose you can have an angry approach, but why bother telling me that? I know internet communication unfortunately tends to distort personalities, but I also know that only bad workmen blame their tools. I'm sure in person you would be more focused on the subject matter, and less focused on getting under people's skins. That doesn't improve the quality of your online communication though.

You've already claimed that only psychodynamic therapy adequately addresses the heart of the issue, which you identify as a poor upbringing. I haven't seen many people supporting this sort of opinion, so it's natural for me to be skeptical of you when you don't present much evidence, and when you don't elaborate your opinions much. What difference between CBT and PDT accounts for your opinion, or is your opinion simply arbitrary, ill-founded, or the result of a passionate bias? According to Blagys and Hilsenroth (2000) (see: http://www.yellowbri...dynamic_P2.html), the developmental focus is only 1 of 6 (or 7, depending on how you formalize the results) defining qualities which is unique to PDT. I would support a therapy which carefully balances all 7 features, and I would only recommend the most unstable people seek professional help. After doing my homework, I'll agree that PDT is superior to CBT, even though my reasons differ greatly from yours.


I agree with you and I would be the happiest person in the world if I could also say that loud what you pointed out. You have no idea what I'mI going through, and probably many of us. Yes, from now on I will really carry propranolol with me and I will use it in order to act as every normal human in situations that used to be so easy for me to handle in the past. Don't know what happened to me, cant find the reason, but I will rather choose 10-20 mg of propranolol a month for the rest of my life then have one more panic attack of being so anxious and frightened in normal everyday situations (meeting, interview, public speech, presentation...). I think its makes no sense to judge someones behavior because you have probably never experienced something like me. It's easy to say 'don't rely on drugs'. Yes, I'm doing my best to stay calm and 'normal' but my body is not listening no matter how hard I try. Nothing helped.

It's probably fair to say that I haven't experienced all possible forms of anxiety, or at the least, I haven't had people accurately transmit every sort of anxious experience to me. But please, don't underestimate the cases I've seen. Of course, I could be wrong in this case, and propranolol might be necessary for life, but I'm always skeptical of people who claim to have debilitating mental conditions which need medicine.

Edited by dasheenster, 29 March 2012 - 05:07 PM.

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#52 Logan Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Arlington, VA

Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:07 PM

I suppose you can have an angry approach, but why bother telling me that? I know internet communication unfortunately tends to distort personalities, but I also know that only bad workmen blame their tools. I'm sure in person you would be more focused on the subject matter, and less focused on getting under people's skins. That doesn't improve the quality of your online communication though.

You've already claimed that only psychodynamic therapy adequately addresses the heart of the issue, which you identify as a poor upbringing. I haven't seen many people supporting this sort of opinion, so it's natural for me to be skeptical of you when you don't present much evidence, and when you don't elaborate your opinions much. What difference between CBT and PDT accounts for your opinion, or is your opinion simply arbitrary, ill-founded, or the result of a passionate bias? According to Blagys and Hilsenroth (2000) (see: http://www.yellowbri...dynamic_P2.html), the developmental focus is only 1 of 6 (or 7, depending on how you formalize the results) defining qualities which is unique to PDT. I would support a therapy which carefully balances all 7 features, and I would only recommend the most unstable people seek professional help. After doing my homework, I'll agree that PDT is superior to CBT, even though my reasons differ greatly from yours.


Why only the most unstable people. It's statements like this that make me think you still do not truely understand the benefit of therapy and what goes on when working with a very good therapist. Goals in therapy may simply be to peel away some layers, dig deeper than you ever have before, and learn about yourself like never before in order to try to figure out what might be keeping you from having successful relationships. Most people that go to therap are not mentally ill at all, they are just like all of us. They were not given the nurture necessary to love themselves and respect themselves enough to be able to attract the right people in their lives, and allow themselves to be vulnerable enough without doing things subconsciously to sabatoge the relationships they find themselves in. You see, happiness in life is all about healthy relationships. This is the case sinces day one. If we don't quite get what we need, even things that seem subtle to most, we will find ourselves struggling in one way or another in our daily lives and/or relationships. I can't tell you how many people I know that had a critical mother that was not able to consistently love them the way every child needs to be loved by their mother. And to no surprise to me, every single one of those people has had a difficult time allowing themselves to be vulnerable in a relationship. They have also turned out to have low self esteems, often not showing on the outside. And, they attracted people in their lives that were distant in a big way, people that could not really give them what everyone needs. When things did not work out with these distant people, they were drawn to them even more, feeling a huge sense of loss and overwhelmed with anxiety. You see, there are patterns that occur far too often to ignore. And, there are clinical studies to back up the impacts lack of nurture from a mother and even a father will impact the level of self-love within and behavior by someone in the future. So, do you have to have major mental health issues and be extremely unstable to benefit from therapy? Hell no.



It's probably fair to say that I haven't experienced all possible forms of anxiety, or at the least, I haven't had people accurately transmit every sort of anxious experience to me. But please, don't underestimate the cases I've seen. Of course, I could be wrong in this case, and propranolol might be necessary for life, but I'm always skeptical of people who claim to have debilitating mental conditions which need medicine.



Hey man. Don't you think, that if you don't have experience as you admit to not having, that it is not fair to be skeptical of people that say their anxiety, depresssion, or ocd can be debilitating at times?
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#53 hippocampus Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:medial temporal lobe, brain

Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:29 AM

Even if bad upringing is the cause of the problem that doesn't mean that psychotherapy is the only effective way of treating it or that it will be succesful. And it surely doesn't mean that psychodynamic therapy will be better than any other kind of therapy. Also, if the root of the problem is genetic, that doesn't mean psychotherapy won't be helpful.
Anyway, the causes of the problem are probably multiple, so relying on only one kind of treating is almost surely not as effective as multiple treatments (= lifestyle changes, nutrition, meditation, supplements, drugs, psychotherapy).
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#54 dasheenster Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:USA

Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:00 AM

Why only the most unstable people. It's statements like this that make me think you still do not truely understand the benefit of therapy and what goes on when working with a very good therapist. Goals in therapy may simply be to peel away some layers, dig deeper than you ever have before, and learn about yourself like never before in order to try to figure out what might be keeping you from having successful relationships. Most people that go to therap are not mentally ill at all, they are just like all of us. They were not given the nurture necessary to love themselves and respect themselves enough to be able to attract the right people in their lives, and allow themselves to be vulnerable enough without doing things subconsciously to sabatoge the relationships they find themselves in. You see, happiness in life is all about healthy relationships. This is the case sinces day one. If we don't quite get what we need, even things that seem subtle to most, we will find ourselves struggling in one way or another in our daily lives and/or relationships. I can't tell you how many people I know that had a critical mother that was not able to consistently love them the way every child needs to be loved by their mother. And to no surprise to me, every single one of those people has had a difficult time allowing themselves to be vulnerable in a relationship. They have also turned out to have low self esteems, often not showing on the outside. And, they attracted people in their lives that were distant in a big way, people that could not really give them what everyone needs. When things did not work out with these distant people, they were drawn to them even more, feeling a huge sense of loss and overwhelmed with anxiety. You see, there are patterns that occur far too often to ignore. And, there are clinical studies to back up the impacts lack of nurture from a mother and even a father will impact the level of self-love within and behavior by someone in the future. So, do you have to have major mental health issues and be extremely unstable to benefit from therapy? Hell no.

Fairly unstable people can probably learn to handle it themselves using self-help books that emphasize PDT themes. I don't think the average mild personality disorder is an insuperable difficulty for the layman to overcome on his own. Granted people fall into denial and complacency, and professional help might be the shock value they need, but I don't see why we should insist on paying professionals to do work we could be doing, if only we wanted to, when we aren't suffering or causing harm. People with mood/thought disorders need meds, and probably also therapy. Personality disorders might not require any therapy, depending on their severity, or they could require years of intensive PDT cycling. Honestly, I think you're overoptimistic about how much therapy can help. It's not going to make you perfectly rational and perfectly congenial. A therapist will not make you into Jesus Christ. I'm beginning to suspect that you have some sort of affiliation with therapists, and this may, in some respects, explain the origins of your bias. Although I enjoyed your anecdotal evidence as to why the childhood is so crucial, it's far from academic, I disagreed with parts of it, and like hippocampus pointed out, it doesn't explain in the least why PDT addresses mental scars left behind from childhood.



Hey man. Don't you think, that if you don't have experience as you admit to not having, that it is not fair to be skeptical of people that say their anxiety, depresssion, or ocd can be debilitating at times?

It's no less fair than when I challenge someone who complains excessively of mean parents constantly dragging them down and ruining their life, when in reality, their parents are highly reasonable and only expect them to behave responsibly while under their financial household. If you don't think complaining is a serious and ubiquitous issue, then may you have the best of luck catering to the complaints of others.

I can see how someone would easily be initially offended by this, but my long-term goal is to make them think more about their decisions and alternatives. It's the same as when I challenge my friends' decisions about their new girlfriends. They are certain this is the right girl who will complete their souls. I don't consider it unfriendly to criticize people, seeing as they might be wrong. If they take it the wrong way, I see it as a sign that they don't want advice or they aren't trusting of me.

Also, if the root of the problem is genetic, that doesn't mean psychotherapy won't be helpful.
(= lifestyle changes, nutrition, meditation, supplements, drugs, psychotherapy).

Word. Don't be that guy who insists only medicine helps genetic defects. Lots of people are too afraid to try self-therapy since it's time-consuming and doesn't guarantee anything, and for them, resorting to physicians is a much easier way out.
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#55 Logan Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Arlington, VA

Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:03 AM

Again, dash, I think you are missing how complex and complicated things really are.

I do not think PDT or CUT are cure alls, and no one will ever be perfect, but just like medication, they are very effective treatments when a person has the will and strength to follow through.
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#56 Logan Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Arlington, VA

Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:04 AM

CBT...Damn droid...
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#57 dasheenster Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:USA

Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:14 AM

the only real fix is to get your ass into psychodynamic therapy

I think you're just trying to clarify yourself now that I've pointed it out the vagueness of your original posts, because you obviously expressed yourself in a way which contradicted what you intended to convey. I'm the one who's missing the complexity of the issue? I don't want to keep this quarrel going, so I'll swear this is my last nonconstructive post, but I'm not claiming to be the king of PDT...I'm not in total control of my emotions. If you're truly as good with PDT as you claim, you shouldn't be having these quarrels either. I guess even the best psychologists have problems in life, even though we assume they should be perfect.
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#58 Logan Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Arlington, VA

Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:16 AM

Again, dash, I think you are missing how complex and complicated things really are.

I do not think PDT or CUT are cure alls, and no one will ever be perfect, but just like medication, they are very effective treatments when a person has the will and strength to follow through.
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#59 Brainfogged Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Sweden

Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:03 AM

Again, dash, I think you are missing how complex and complicated things really are.

I do not think PDT or CUT are cure alls, and no one will ever be perfect, but just like medication, they are very effective treatments when a person has the will and strength to follow through.


Man I have never seen a man call himself mature through calling others not understanding because they are young repeat himself on so many occasions just to tell them that they are wrong and that he is right. How old are you?

Strip down civilisation and put people to war, then you will see who are more prone for survival. This is where all leads to in the end! If it´s war, weather- changes, globalisation that affects civilized countries, poverty or mayhem. Then there will be those who will choose death before life, there will be those who die in favour of the other and there will be those who are too weak to sustain their lives in an harsh environment. Here no psychology will be available, no self help will be enough, here no truth or you don´t get it mentality will help, here no psychotherapy will be of aid. It is at these crucial moments where nature has it´s last call. It will all end up in who copes with stress, who lacks empathy, who is built to be more recilliant in the end. And all that will matter is what kind of substance you are built from.

This reflects in our primitive nature, even if we are civilized. This is what matters the most in who we are. This is what gives us life. Although better environments gives more life, it doesn´t mean that environments will change and your genes will be put to test. As the population is growing the world will become smaller. This is where there will be less and less room for life. This is where the weeding out process will need to take place.

This is reality! It is not an opinion of mine, it is not something that I want or wish for. It´s just how things are. Our genes has the final call, it´s just that simple!

Edited by Brainfogged, 10 April 2012 - 12:05 AM.

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#60 Logan Re: Self-confidence - is there a magic pill?

  • Location:Arlington, VA

Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:45 AM

So, BC, you dont think psychology plays a role in war?

You do realize the goal is to have a civilization evolved to the point of being without war. So why even break it down to that? I will not apply to our future if the majority of the world has any say in the matter. I realize you were trying to point out our basic primitive drives and how much biology plays a role in that. But, are you sure it is simply our primitive drives that play this major role? Im pretty sure war is a more modern creation. Im also pretty sure war has been a result of both primitive survival mechanisms and a need to compete at a greater scale as the environment and complication of factors have changed. I think a much better argument can be made that love and connectedness is where you will find our basic needs for survival, and the biology driving the behaviors to fulfill these needa, are where you will really find what humans are made of. We are simply animals any more, we never will be.

I make the comments I make because I know a lot of you guys are young. And, I know longecity tends to attract a certain personality type more often than not. I admit, I have not communicated things the way I should have earlier. Hey, it takes a real man to do that;)

I am 39.
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