111 replies to this topic

[Logan]

Sorry for some typos and mistakes, I really should not type and send these kinds of messages over my phone.

[niner]

Strip down civilisation and put people to war, then you will see who are more prone for survival. This is where all leads to in the end! If it´s war, weather- changes, globalisation that affects civilized countries, poverty or mayhem. Then there will be those who will choose death before life, there will be those who die in favour of the other and there will be those who are too weak to sustain their lives in an harsh environment. Here no psychology will be available, no self help will be enough, here no truth or you don´t get it mentality will help, here no psychotherapy will be of aid. It is at these crucial moments where nature has it´s last call. It will all end up in who copes with stress, who lacks empathy, who is built to be more recilliant in the end. And all that will matter is what kind of substance you are built from.
[...] It´s just how things are. Our genes has the final call, it´s just that simple!

Wow, I simply do not agree. If you do a survey of behavioral scientists, I think you will find that the vast majority of them, if not all of them, also don't agree. You are saying that "the way we are" is 100% determined by our genes, but this is not allowing for life experience, particularly early life experience, to have any influence whatsoever on our resilience or ability to cope. Imagine the following scenario: Two children with identical genetic endowment; identical twins, are separated at birth. One is raised in a loving, life affirming home with good discipline and all the right stuff, whatever that might be. The other is raised in an abusive, horrible environment, and is repeatedly exposed to the sort of thing that PTSD is made from. Do you really think those two kids are going to have equal capabilities and coping skills when they grow up? No way.

I have to make one other comment: My scientific training is in the field of pharmaceutical chemistry. Different scientific camps have different character, and I suppose there are some, perhaps psychology, where being told you are wrong is some sort of grave breach of decorum. In my field, If I publicly stated something that was wrong, I could expect to hear about it in no uncertain terms, and not to be handled with kid gloves. Thus I found it odd that Logan was being called out for saying "you don't get it". He wasn't engaging in ad hominem, which we frown on in this forum; he was just stating the facts as he saw them. According to the culture of my scientific tradition, that would not mean he was immature, but I know there are other cultures where face-saving is valued above all else, so I guess this is an example of culture clash. That's the interwebz for ya...

[Junk Master]

Low dose dianabol works wonders for self-confidence.

[smithx]

I'm glad the propranolol worked for you. Recent studies indicate that you may need less of it and eventually none at all because of its effect in extinguishing fear pathways.

On bromazepam: I'd avoid all benzodiazapenes. They are highly addictive, and also stop working fairly quickly.

Also, it's always a good idea to make sure one thing works before trying another.

Finally, I do recommend Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It can help you to reframe thoughts which are causing anxiety, and let you come up with different ways of thinking which are more useful to you.

Edited by smithx, 10 April 2012 - 04:12 PM.

[gamesguru]

^So propranolol has cumulative effects (extinguishing fear pathways) and virtually no tolerance? Hmm, that might just be a miracle drug.

[Raptor87]

So, BC, you dont think psychology plays a role in war?

You do realize the goal is to have a civilization evolved to the point of being without war. So why even break it down to that? I will not apply to our future if the majority of the world has any say in the matter. I realize you were trying to point out our basic primitive drives and how much biology plays a role in that. But, are you sure it is simply our primitive drives that play this major role? Im pretty sure war is a more modern creation. Im also pretty sure war has been a result of both primitive survival mechanisms and a need to compete at a greater scale as the environment and complication of factors have changed. I think a much better argument can be made that love and connectedness is where you will find our basic needs for survival, and the biology driving the behaviors to fulfill these needa, are where you will really find what humans are made of. We are simply animals any more, we never will be.

I make the comments I make because I know a lot of you guys are young. And, I know longecity tends to attract a certain personality type more often than not. I admit, I have not communicated things the way I should have earlier. Hey, it takes a real man to do that;)

I am 39.

As I tried to to point out in my previous post is that our genetic make up has a major role if not the biggest role in who we become, the rest is an adaptation. Even if it is environmental, this includes civilisation. This doesn´t mean that one who is born dominant stops dominating, this person will still be perceived as a dominant person, even if the acting out part is more civilized. This is what I mean is a reflection of our primitive drives and when do we stop being humans, if Id walk down the street and a guy attacks me then there is no civilisation there, it´s mere instincts. Nurturing and caring is also instinctual! Some just don´t know how to behave, I know! My upbringing also sucked from time to time.

Im glad that you gave us some constructive sentences and I grant and acknowledge that there is some truth in what you say.

[Logan]

Thank you niner for jumping in here:) It helps to have a moderator, one with life experience and knowledge on the subject, to reaffirm what ive been trying to pound out in this thread. I will say though, to increase chances of others feeling like opening up to what I am saying, a more gentle approach would likely be more effective. I could have said, "Im not sure, for several reasons, you have had a chance to understand the role of both nature and nurture". Or, make even just saying,"im not sure that you really get it", instead of simply, "you dont get it", would be more effective. In person, Im very good at proper and effective commulocation. For some reason, I lack patience at times here. I have a few ideas as to why.

[gamesguru]

Lol.

I said this to Logan:

it's natural for me to be skeptical of you when you don't present much evidence, and when you don't elaborate your opinions much.

and Logan replied:

you are missing how complex and complicated things really are.

Given that I called for an elaboration/clarification upon what I (and others) perceived as vague and incomplete, and he responded by saying I was ignorant and not understanding his position, and that his position was complicated, I'd say he's committing either ad hominems or straw man fallacies or special pleading....depending how you look at it. You can't go around spewing vague theories and shunning people who can't understand what you're trying to say...that's just bad practice. Blame the others if you like Logan, but I know the extent to which I'm at fault here, I won't deny it, and I'll try to improve my debating skills. Do what you want with yourself.

Edited by dasheenster, 10 April 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[smithx]

^So propranolol has cumulative effects (extinguishing fear pathways) and virtually no tolerance? Hmm, that might just be a miracle drug.

I'm extrapolating a bit from this report:
http://www.scienceda...90311103611.htm

[nupi]

^So propranolol has cumulative effects (extinguishing fear pathways) and virtually no tolerance? Hmm, that might just be a miracle drug.

Seems like it could be worth a shot. I also wonder what would happen if you stacked Propanolol with a Dopamine agonist - could you rewire the brain to be more sensitive to pleasure by pushing yourself far enough and then experiencing it more strongly than usual (I have at least some anhedonic tendencies)?

Edited by nupi, 10 April 2012 - 06:19 PM.

[Raptor87]

Strip down civilisation and put people to war, then you will see who are more prone for survival. This is where all leads to in the end! If it´s war, weather- changes, globalisation that affects civilized countries, poverty or mayhem. Then there will be those who will choose death before life, there will be those who die in favour of the other and there will be those who are too weak to sustain their lives in an harsh environment. Here no psychology will be available, no self help will be enough, here no truth or you don´t get it mentality will help, here no psychotherapy will be of aid. It is at these crucial moments where nature has it´s last call. It will all end up in who copes with stress, who lacks empathy, who is built to be more recilliant in the end. And all that will matter is what kind of substance you are built from.
[...] It´s just how things are. Our genes has the final call, it´s just that simple!

Wow, I simply do not agree. If you do a survey of behavioral scientists, I think you will find that the vast majority of them, if not all of them, also don't agree. You are saying that "the way we are" is 100% determined by our genes, but this is not allowing for life experience, particularly early life experience, to have any influence whatsoever on our resilience or ability to cope. Imagine the following scenario: Two children with identical genetic endowment; identical twins, are separated at birth. One is raised in a loving, life affirming home with good discipline and all the right stuff, whatever that might be. The other is raised in an abusive, horrible environment, and is repeatedly exposed to the sort of thing that PTSD is made from. Do you really think those two kids are going to have equal capabilities and coping skills when they grow up? No way.

I have to make one other comment: My scientific training is in the field of pharmaceutical chemistry. Different scientific camps have different character, and I suppose there are some, perhaps psychology, where being told you are wrong is some sort of grave breach of decorum. In my field, If I publicly stated something that was wrong, I could expect to hear about it in no uncertain terms, and not to be handled with kid gloves. Thus I found it odd that Logan was being called out for saying "you don't get it". He wasn't engaging in ad hominem, which we frown on in this forum; he was just stating the facts as he saw them. According to the culture of my scientific tradition, that would not mean he was immature, but I know there are other cultures where face-saving is valued above all else, so I guess this is an example of culture clash. That's the interwebz for ya...

No! I have pointed this out earlier, I am not saying that we are 100% our genes. Just that our genes are crucial to who we become, the rest is a social adaptation. Yes Iv´e read about a few twin studies done on psychopaths. Just because one of the twins is pro- social and the other one is anti- social doesn´t mean that their genes simply stops clicking. Put the pro- social back in a environment were his antisocial tendencies is preferred, then he will strive. Psychopaths have a weak stress- response and seem to be immune to PTSD.

I don´t have anything against Logan, actually I like his attitude somewhat. I´d rather take a man with some balls, attitude and a heart as my ally rather than a manipulative approval seeking coward. It´s just that repeating oneself with the same words just to tell other people that they are wrong is just a waste of everyones time.

I am putting a lot of emphasis on nature because it is at these moments when nature comes calling, if it´s mating, conflict, debate, war or having a place in a social hierarchy when it does matter. Sure something like money can give someone value or a great upbringing, but this is not where it ends. It ends with our basic needs and behaviour, like when we need to fight.

As for you pointing out about the scientific camps, this is also something I thought about. As for Logan his issues (sorry to be talking about you indirectly Logan) seemed to be psychological. But I know countless of guy´s who suffer from panic attacks, social phobia, general anxiety and all kinds of problems and a lot of them were shy guy´s when they were younger, some were introverts and this is the way they were born. They had great upbringins and there is no reason for them to be like that. Sure they can do some CBT and other stuff just to cope with the situation. But one can wonder if it comes to terms, if these guy´s would add up to the moments? I highly doubt so! This is why I am putting a lot of emphasis on nature perhaps even more than 50%, because these 50 reflect on our sociability also. Sure outside factors can diminish these factors as having a bad upbringing or social relationship with others. But generally, some have it, others don´t. I know that if one of these guy´s would have been born in a state of war like in parts of Africa and managed to live to their 20´s as soldiers, I don´t think they would have much issues as they do now. But I don´t believe that they would be leaders or have some kind of power. They would just simply do what they are told or are forced to do.

The reason why this is so important to me is that I believe in pharmacology and genetherapy, not what it is now but in the future. If we are able to give everyone a reasonable shot at life then we have given people a gift of fairness. I think that psychology fails a lot of times when it comes to this, a lot of times psychology just want´s to aid people and make them accept with what has happened to them and who they are. A lot of times it is unfair to the patients. As Freud put it; my intentions was not to cure anything but to make things bearable. I know that the talk about fairness might seem a bit naive and diversity is needed even when it comes to handicaps. But certainly some things we can live without, I hope atleast.
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It seems that this thread has derailed somewhat. For pills as stated earlier, there is no magic pill. First and foremost we need to define confidence and also self- esteem. These can have several meanings, often the psychological definitions are mentioned. Self- esteem comes before confidence (how you feel about yourself), confidence means how you feel that you manage a situation (I can do it and the outcome doesn´t matter) is a blunt explanation. I think this thread is about being social forward, being able to handle stressful situations and having a slight of aggressiveness meaning that one pushes himself to get through certain tasks and moments. Other factors that contribute is not letting one´s stress- response taking over cognition, speech, intonation memory and behaviour. We want exposing behaviours which implies having great posture and a slight of muscle pressure and being well balanced while being able to express oneself with facial and arm- gestures. So for a pill, that's a no. We need a stack that can reduce anxiety, improve our cognition and aggressiveness and also we need to work on our bodylanguage.


There are some nutrients and drugs that can dampen the symptoms.

Here is my list:

Methylcobalamin 5000mcg (reduces anxiety)
Adaptogens (russian root; roseroot, makes one prone to handle stress better)
ZMA (or magnesium and zinc, slight sedating effect)

Propranolol or betablockers to reduce the adrenal response (although there is a major safety concern, if you suffer from sleep- apnoea or some other obstructive lung disease or asthma then you can´t take it. same goes for kidney- liver problems, problems with blood- circulation, heart problems and so on. You need to check the warning label before taking the drug) I tried Propranolol once and my arms became blue so I avoid that drug, it was a scary reaction.

SSRI´s makes one ignore certain stress or social problems (never worked for me, does work for some)

Working out (do you guy´s work out cause there are a lot of benefits?)

Keep you blood- sugar levels well balanced. (Sugarspikes induce stress).

There is a study about Testosterone reduces unconscious fear, although I don't recommend pills or any sort of amateur T- therapy. Don´t fuck up your hormonal system if you don´t know wtf you are doing!

PDF about the role of Testosterone.

As for the other stuff I can´t be much of aid. I think dopamine plays a major role in some of the attributes so maybe mph/modafinil can help, although these can also aggravate the signs of anxiety.

Edited by Brainfogged, 10 April 2012 - 07:03 PM.

[smithx]

Seems like it could be worth a shot. I also wonder what would happen if you stacked Propanolol with a Dopamine agonist - could you rewire the brain to be more sensitive to pleasure by pushing yourself far enough and then experiencing it more strongly than usual (I have at least some anhedonic tendencies)?

Or it might have the opposite effect. Since it seems to extinguish fear pathways, it might also extinguish pleasure pathways.

[Logan]

You can't blame niner, BF, you have appeared to be arguing for genetics playing the dominant and ultimate determining role in the outcome of who we are as adults.

As far as war is concerned, I think you might be underestimating the role our emotions, and how they have been shaped/influenced, do play. None of us have been warriors in bloody combat, so how can we make any definitive determination of all of what is going on and what is driving us during these conditions? How about the brothers we are fighting with and for? What about the psychological and emotional role involved in protecting the people we fight against, and not just ourselves? How about the psychological impact of killing another person? There might be more psychodynamic components involved in being a warrior as a human being than you are giving credit.

Flight or fight is a basic drive that is at the heart of how we respond to protecting ourselves. This part of our basic being is also what plays a role in the development of psychological disorders. Anxiety and panic are in a big way a result of flight or fight. What is drivin our behavior in war? Flight or fight response. See where I'm heading with this?

Don't worry about talking about me in the third person. It's all good I do not get offended easily. In spite of my moments of aggressive passion, I'm a very easy going and understanding individual.

[Junk Master]

This has turned into an interesting thread. Will physicians prescribe Propranolol for public speaking anxiety? Also, Inositol was oddly effective at killing anxiety-- too bad you have to take it at stomach incompatible doses.

Finally, don't count out Aniracetam within the first two hours of dosing.

[Arch_NME]

umm... why did you rule out alcohol? It does exactly everything you are requesting.

[Thorsten3]

Alcohol is a toxic drug that is not healthy for long term consumption. It can be used for one off purposes but even then there is a fine line between being a mess and having a good time. The effects are also highly individual promoting euphoria (up to a point) in some users and promoting a depressive state in others, such as me. I wouldn't see alcohol as some sort of solution here. Even if you did take it daily, it would seep out of your pores and you would stink (putting people off anyway, confidence or not) and over time you'd grow tolerant to its effects. You can actually die withdrawing from alcohol so if you do develop a 'habit' it isn't going to be pretty coming off of it.

I would say the same for any substance that interacts with the GABAergic system in serious way so that includes phenibut and GHB.

For one off purpose though it's great, but I got the impression the OP was looking for something long term.

Edited by Thorsten2, 13 April 2012 - 08:53 AM.

[gamesguru]

GHB long-term? That's crazy talk, I think. If you have hypo-thyroid mediated cognitive deficiency, bacopa might be a good thing to add long-term. I learned the other week from my aunt, who has Graves disease, that such thyroid stimulating herbs (as Bacopa) are flatly contraindicated in patients with hyperthyroidism. Something worth knowing, I thought.

[JChief]

Well yes if you could swallow a beer.

Also note that self confidence rhymes with mania. The path to get you there could be treacherous is all I'm sayin'. Be careful.

[pheanix997]

This is an interesting thread. In my opinion both Logan and BrainFogged are partially correct in their views. Biology plays a considerable role. Psychologists now estimate that we inherit 50 % of our personalities; the rest is shaped by environment and early parental influences. 

 

Has anyone read the book Angst? It addresses the evolutionary significance of the commonest psychological afflictions, such as social anxiety, panic anxiety, atypical depression, major depression, OCD, and schizophrenia. There's a reason evolution has kept these afflictions in the gene pool; they serve a societal purpose. Take social anxiety, for instance. The author talked about how social anxiety is often an indicator of low social status. Why else would one feel shaky or nervous in the presence of another person? Because they are afraid of judgement, of disapproval, and ultimately castigation from the group (historically speaking, when being apart of a tribe contributed greatly to our survival). 

 

Social anxiety kept social cohesion in the group. If everyone was dominant and challenging, there would be constant chaos. Our early ancestors needed cohesion to survive and progress efficiently; having submissive, self-negating members of the tribe were necessary. The author remarks how people with social anxiety seem to respond well to serotonergics, simply because serotonin generally fosters "social comfort." Oddly enough, people tend to look and feel more confident when taking SSRIs. There may also be a reason why evolution hasn't weeded out peoples with "low serotonin" biology; being low in this chemical makes people feel anxious and uncomfortable with their station in life, and kind of propels them to take action and move higher up the social ladder. Being high in serotonin, alternatively, can make on feel complacent; hence, why people report feeling lazy when their medication reaches too high a dose. 

 

The good news is that we live in a day and age where we can control these nagging, outdated biological instincts with judicial use of medication and psychotherapy to UNDUE years of unhealthy behaviours and thought patters. In the case of the person with social anxiety, medication will help quell the physical symptoms and make him/her feel more confident to pursue their goals and assert his/herself, while psychotherapy will help them activate their prefrontal cortex to untangle years of socially avoidant behaviours, which still influences the personality. This is why medication + therapy is recommended. 

 

I don't have time to go into more detail of the book, but check it out if you're interested! Brainfogged was dead on here. 

 

But Logan is right as well! Even though biology plays a crucial role, so does your upbringing. That is, even if you have a strong, "fit" biological construct, your parents may have botched your emotional needs. This is where psychodynamic therapy is very beneficial. My suggestion is to look into character psychology, mainly started by Wilhelm Reich and Alexander Lowen, and later integrated by (my favourite) psychoanalytic writer Stephen Johnson. Character psychology states that EVERYONE more or less deal with existential "themes" that generally shape his/her life. That is, not everyone needs to have a personality disorder to have a "character style" that tends in one direction or another, e.g. toward narcissism (used child), schizoid (rejected child), symbiotic/ borderline (owned child). 

 

Psychodynamic therapy, i.e. understanding the psychological influences that shaped your character, is crucial to self-knowledge and choosing a healthier way to live. So, for example, a person with a symbiotic/ borderline "character style" may suffer with a lack of strong self-identity because their mother was anxious about letting her child separate, individuate, and discover themselves. The mother, in a sense, "owned" her child, unconsciously hesitant about letting it assert its own uniqueness because of the mother's own issues with lack of identity. So these unfortunate children grow up always looking to others for approval and cues as to how to act. They lack a sense of self; they're chameleons whose self-identity is ever-changing. It's theorized that this is how borderline personalities are created, hence why they react so angrily when they are abandoned by somebody; when somebody leaves their life, it's like a part of them gets taken away, and they're left with their basic existential issue of not having established THEIR OWN IDENTITY AND AUTONOMY. This is where psychodynamic therapy comes in: these people need to understand WHY they lack a strong identity, why they cling to others for approval, so that they can weed out the behaviours/ lifestyles that strengthen this core character formation and adopt healthier attitudes that allow them to transform their character. In this case, that would involve taking time to find out their true interests and desires in life so they can discover the real self that never was never nurtured enough to develop healthily. 

 

A person who has a schizy/ avoidant personality may have been rejected very early on in life, which is why they may continue to be socially uncomfortable around others even as adults. 

 

Some posters have asked Logan why psychodynamic therapy is important, and this is why: because short-term CBT only addresses surface level symptoms and/or behaviours/ thought patterns and doesn't address the underlying character of the patient. In order to TRULY change and heal, you need to undergo a character transformation. Nobody ever completes this process; it's a lifelong thing. You just need to move in a healthier direction. For the symbiotic/ borderline, that direction is toward further and further autonomy and individuation, despite the anxiety that comes with this. For the schizoid/ avoidant, that direction is toward further and further involvement with others, again, despite the anxiety they'll experience.

 

What other posters have said about therapy not being a "cure" is also very true. You can't undue how you were raised. So a person with an avoidant personality may always feel a little uncomfortable in social situations. But understanding why this is so, will help him to improve slowly and continually. However, with hard work, you truly can transform your character. 

 

 

[Ehvam]

Great thread.. Doesn't our conscious choices also have epigentic effects? For example, If I decide to work out, I get stronger and raise my testosterone..which makes me more confident, etc etc. This is the principle I have lived my life on.

I grew screwed by both nurture and nature. I was a small kid, and high strung and very introverted and socially withdrawn, I was also raised by a man who was a violent alcoholic and a mother who had a debilitating terminal illness. Yet I forced myself to learn new skills. I was always scared of talking to people, so at one point I got a job selling guitars, haven't had social anxiety in a long time, I was smaller and easy to push around so I learned how to "fake" bravery, and it worked, by high school people had stopped picking on me, I also took self defense classes and it help immnensely as well. I had panic attacks in my 20s.. I decided to face the fear every day and not let it hold me back, I became a musician who played in public often, forcing myself to get used ti performing. In my 20s my two best Friends died and my gf of 5 years left.. I slid into a deep depression, slowly I have been getting myself out of it and now live in anew city, new job and back inn school for a new career- at 44.

Here is how I look at things psychologically.. what you do is a true reflection of what you really want. For example, a fight. One part of you wants to stand up for itself, and not be dominated, but another part of you wants to stop feeling scared. What you do is reflective of what is more valuable to you. For the person who wants to avoid feeling fear more than defending themselves, they will run. For the person who wants to defend themselves more than they want safety, they will fight...

To a large extent, you give in to your fear because you want to end the discomfort more than you want whatever is causing the discomfort. Genetics has little to do with it. Sure, a person incapable of feeling fear will have an easier time in some cases, but in many cases it comes with its own set of problems... like prison, which is where most of them end up.

I think short of extreme cases almost all of what we are comes down to what we decide we really want. Therapy and real world confrontation with the things that you fear will work wonders. I am not completely healed.. and never will be. I was much much too traumitized to maybe ever reach it.. but people are amazed when they hear about my life and see who and how I am. Literally jaw dropping... and it wasnt genetics- it was willing to face my fear and discomfort to be the person I wanted. And wanting that more than the feeling of safety. 

I say do it all- I sure have.. take a pill, exercise, therapy, REFUSE to be robbed of a life. 

[machete234]

But Logan is right as well! Even though biology plays a crucial role, so does your upbringing. That is, even if you have a strong, "fit" biological construct, your parents may have botched your emotional needs. This is where psychodynamic therapy is very beneficial. My suggestion is to look into character psychology, mainly started by Wilhelm Reich and Alexander Lowen, and later integrated by (my favourite) psychoanalytic writer Stephen Johnson.

 

Where would I start with Reich, I just read his book about fascism and Id be interested to read what you mentioned

[pheanix997]

 

But Logan is right as well! Even though biology plays a crucial role, so does your upbringing. That is, even if you have a strong, "fit" biological construct, your parents may have botched your emotional needs. This is where psychodynamic therapy is very beneficial. My suggestion is to look into character psychology, mainly started by Wilhelm Reich and Alexander Lowen, and later integrated by (my favourite) psychoanalytic writer Stephen Johnson.

 

Where would I start with Reich, I just read his book about fascism and Id be interested to read what you mentioned

 

 You could start with Character Analysis, but keep in mind that no one psychoanalyst has all the answers, and each one influences the ones that come later, so it's probably necessary to follow that up with Lowen's and Stephen Johnson's works. The latest development in psychoanalysis is developmental psychology, i.e. object relations . . . and this is a huge advance in the field. Like never before, we're able to understand the genesis of people's personality formations, so as to correct them. But object relations was influenced by none other than Sigmund Freud. So I'm hard-pressed to recommend people "one book" or school of thought when it's all inter-related and to truly understand one, you need to understand its influences. 

[serp777]

No magic pill. You could benefit from Lexapro or Zoloft. But, the only real fix is to get your ass into psychodynamic therapy, and hopefully find a good psychodynamic/interpersonal therapy group run by two very qualified professionals. Your problems are rooted in your parents falling far short of being able to provide you the right amount and the right kind of love and nurture so that you could love your self the way you needed to allow you to thrive in the world. Most people are in complete denial of this.

psychomumbojumbo therapy. 

"Your problems are rooted in your parents falling far short of being able to provide you the right amount and the right kind of love and nurture so that you could love your self the way you needed to allow you to thrive in the world. "

 

Is this a joke? You've got to be kidding me. You're completely guessing. 

[deeptrance]

There IS a magic pill, in fact there are quite a few. Their efficacy depends on individual situations and response, but here's my list of candidates for occasional use in order to temporarily boost social confidence:

 

Buspirone is a novel anti-anxiety medication that's very safe for regular use and I have a couple of friends who overcame social anxiety with it.

 

phenibut --- I've watched it transform people right before my eyes!

 

psychedelics --- in micro-doses, like about a tenth of what one would take recreationally; these work better than SSRIs, in my opinion and experience, but the early effects (first hour or two) can be slightly disorienting until it settles into a nice "everything is fine" type of vibe. So if I were suggesting this as a way to enhance confidence in a social situation, I'd say first to experiment with dose on days when it doesn't matter, then when you master that, take it a few hours before social interaction.

 

anti-anxiety meds of all types, such as the benzodiazepenes; for occasional (not daily) use, they are very safe and effective, but they can make you drowsy and/or stupid, so performance tends to go downhill even as anxiety is relieved

 

Some people can get a confidence boost from certain nootropics, but this effect seems limited to a few individuals and not the majority. Noopept used to give me confidence but the effect went away when I started using it daily. I think phenylpiracetam and coluracetam would both have potential for increased confidence but with the potential of added anxiety. 

 

Gabapentin and lyrica are possible candidates but only work for some people.

 

[Blink]

psychedelics --- in micro-doses, like about a tenth of what one would take recreationally; these work better than SSRIs, in my opinion and experience, but the early effects (first hour or two) can be slightly disorienting until it settles into a nice "everything is fine" type of vibe. So if I were suggesting this as a way to enhance confidence in a social situation, I'd say first to experiment with dose on days when it doesn't matter, then when you master that, take it a few hours before social interaction.

 

That's really interesting. I usually feel very serene and crystal clear after a mushroom trip. What psychedelics have you been using in this way?

[deeptrance]

I usually feel very serene and crystal clear after a mushroom trip. What psychedelics have you been using in this way?

 

 

Whoa, hold on a second, let's not go jumping to conclusions about my alleged use of psychedelics, merely based on my comments implying that I have used psychedelics! 

 

The primary long-term experience I can report on is with 5-MeO-MiPT. It has some unique properties that set it apart from most other tryptamines and the phenethylamines. The patient I know about was using 1 to 2 mg per day for a period of nearly 2 years. It helped him to come down from mania and to be more grounded and productive. This particular chemical has some rough side effects in most people, which are mainly experienced for the first hour or two. He reported that he often felt a little uneasy from it during the morning hours but then would be fine the rest of the day, and at his best in the evening. It is both a serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, similar to Effexor but with more emphasis on norepinephrine relative to serotonin. This makes it speedy at higher doses but only mildly stimulating at tiny doses. It did interfere a bit with his sleep, so he always took it first thing in the morning before breakfast. Dosing is very sensitive in order to get the benefits without feeling drugged. At these low doses there were no psychedelic sensory effects, just a slight physical sensation that is typical of tryptamines, which can vary from pleasant to unsettling depending on the individual's response.

 

An added benefit of this chemical is that it tends to be pro-sexual for most people, enhancing arousal and sensation, which makes it a nice alternative to the pharmaceutical anti-depressants. However, it is technically illegal in most countries and thus should not be purchased or consumed by anyone. 

 

Nearly every one of the known psychedelics has been investigated for pharmaceutical potential, mainly for psychiatric purposes such as treating anxiety and depression, as well as for the treatment of alcoholism and PTSD. Governments frown on these drugs because of their obvious recreational value and pharmaceutical companies go after drugs with much longer half-lives so that blood concentrations can be stabilized and maintained over long periods of time. Short half-life and abuse potential go hand in hand. Nobody wants to wait 3 weeks for a drug to get them high, or 3 more weeks to come down from it! 

[redFishBlueFish]

Again, let's stop being scared and looking for a quick fix. Therapy is the only way to genuinely transform yourself from the inside out.

How would talking make one confident? I dont think that anything can make a person confident if he didn´t have it from the start!

Personally I don´t believe that one can get confident through therapy. I know guy´s who´s always had it rough but still managed to pull it through. I know people who are butt ugly, who still always have a certain swagger. I know people who always hear shit flying their direction but they don´t give a shit, it just bounces off. I know guy´s who would fight off anyone despite their opponents size, number or whatever. These people were born confident. Same with girls. Some know how to melt girls with the palms of their hands, others aren´t able to make a connection even if the girl comes with a manual. Some people are born to be confident, some aren´t.

Then there´s the ultimate losers, people who whine and go to therapy and basically don´t ever change. I know people who have had anxiety and been medicating their whole lives and nothing ever helps. They read self help shit, try to find the ultimate cure and are always on the look for something that will fix them. The truth is that there is nothing wrong with them, this is just the way they operate.

I know this will get to some personally and make some people angry, no offence though.This is just the way things are, sadly though. I wish it wasn´t.

I couldnt agree more. It took a lot of getting screwed over and being jaded before i stopped caring about somethings. Other things i still suck at, like appearing attractive other either male or female. I included male because i usually make friends with the types that attract everyone. They came to me like i am their grandpa or something lol....

[forever freedom]

Why all this talk. Get some alcohol in your system and confidence will skyrocket. lol

 

Now seriously, in my experience confidence goes up with life experience. Go out there, put your face for the countless slaps life will throw your way, take risks, go out to situations that make yoy uncomfortable, get a challenging job (one that challenges your confidence issues like jobs that make you deal a lot with other people, that demand interpersonal skills).

 

There's no magic pill, just many small things that added will increase one's confidence over time. Some people are born naturally confident but anyone can become confident with effort.

[LoneThinker]

Nothing made me more confident than 20 mg d-amphetamine and 20 mg inderal + 1 hit of marijuana and or benzos. Sadly this is really bad advice. Works short and not useful to use longterm.

 

As for supplements, after everything I tried only a handful of them worked for anxiety. Suntheanine, magnesium and there are others to reduce your anxiety.

 

I do have other mental problems like constant adrenaline rushes, anhedonia, OCD and I'm more interested at this point to work on that.

 

Maybe do a bloodtest to see if you are lacking in something.

 

Exercise, diet, lifestyle, meditation , CBT and go out to meet people is the real fix...

[Area-1255]

OP you should focus on overall lifestyle changes and hormone optimization.