19 replies to this topic

[The Immortalist]

Does anyone here know what the best way to cut down on your bodyfat % without losing too much muscle and strength? I am now 200lbs at like 25% bodyfat. When all my main compound lifts(squat, bench, deadlift) are 2X bodyweight I'm going to cut down to 5% bodyfat.

Edited by The Immortalist, 10 April 2012 - 11:14 PM.

[niner]

 The Immortalist, on 10 April 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Does anyone here know what the best way to cut down on your bodyfat % without losing too much muscle and strength? I am now 200lbs at like 25% bodyfat. When all my main compound lifts(squat, bench, deadlift) are 2X bodyweight I'm going to cut down to 5% bodyfat.

You're gonna bench 400lbs?  Are you juicing?  25% seems awfully high.  Is that normal in this phase of the process?  To get to 5%, wouldn't you need to lose something approaching 40lbs?   In the cutting phase, I'd expect you'd want to keep your protein intake high enough to inhibit autophagy / catabolism.  Raise healthy fats and cut carbs, while reducing calories overall.  That would be my best guess, but be forewarned, I'm not a bodybuilding head.  Wouldn't the guys over at M&M have this down to a science?

[robosapiens]

generally..
.8 grams of protien per LB of bodyweight
cut fat and carbs drasticly say. less that 50 grams a say of carbs
lift in the 5 to 8 rep range
very little cardio-, just some walking
lift heavy with low volume

[niner]

 robosapiens, on 11 April 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

.8 grams of protien per LB of bodyweight
cut fat and carbs drasticly say. less that 50 grams a say of carbs

0.8g/lb * 200lb *4Cal/g = 640 Calories from protein
50g carb * 4Cal/g = 200 Calories from carbs

That's 840 Calories total.  If you want a 1600 Cal diet, as an example, you'd need 760 calories from fat.  760 / 9Cal/gm = 84.5 g of fat per day.

If you want more Calories, and you might, then that's more fat, at least under this dietary regime, which looks to be ketogenic, though the high level of protein might subvert ketosis.

[robosapiens]

The gluconeogenesis derived from that protein will not stave off ketosis, but will supply the brain with enough glucose to survive.

[mikeinnaples]

 niner, on 11 April 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

 The Immortalist, on 10 April 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Does anyone here know what the best way to cut down on your bodyfat % without losing too much muscle and strength? I am now 200lbs at like 25% bodyfat. When all my main compound lifts(squat, bench, deadlift) are 2X bodyweight I'm going to cut down to 5% bodyfat.

You're gonna bench 400lbs?  Are you juicing?  25% seems awfully high.  Is that normal in this phase of the process?  To get to 5%, wouldn't you need to lose something approaching 40lbs?   In the cutting phase, I'd expect you'd want to keep your protein intake high enough to inhibit autophagy / catabolism.  Raise healthy fats and cut carbs, while reducing calories overall.  That would be my best guess, but be forewarned, I'm not a bodybuilding head.  Wouldn't the guys over at M&M have this down to a science?

It isn't adding up.

Bench press 400lbs but only squat/dead 400lbs? 25% body fat at 200lbs means you must be quite short and fat as well.

Case in point, I am 8% body fat at 6'1 / 185lbs. I learned my lessons about trying to hit 400lbs bench press a long long time ago. Too much wear and tear on your body and serves no purpose outside of ego. When I was in the military I was benching 385lbs, but my weight was 235. Significant difference between then and now.

[The Immortalist]

 mikeinnaples, on 11 April 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

 niner, on 11 April 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

 The Immortalist, on 10 April 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Does anyone here know what the best way to cut down on your bodyfat % without losing too much muscle and strength? I am now 200lbs at like 25% bodyfat. When all my main compound lifts(squat, bench, deadlift) are 2X bodyweight I'm going to cut down to 5% bodyfat.

You're gonna bench 400lbs?  Are you juicing?  25% seems awfully high.  Is that normal in this phase of the process?  To get to 5%, wouldn't you need to lose something approaching 40lbs?   In the cutting phase, I'd expect you'd want to keep your protein intake high enough to inhibit autophagy / catabolism.  Raise healthy fats and cut carbs, while reducing calories overall.  That would be my best guess, but be forewarned, I'm not a bodybuilding head.  Wouldn't the guys over at M&M have this down to a science?

It isn't adding up.

Bench press 400lbs but only squat/dead 400lbs? 25% body fat at 200lbs means you must be quite short and fat as well.

Case in point, I am 8% body fat at 6'1 / 185lbs. I learned my lessons about trying to hit 400lbs bench press a long long time ago. Too much wear and tear on your body and serves no purpose outside of ego. When I was in the military I was benching 385lbs, but my weight was 235. Significant difference between then and now.

When I achieve a 400lb bench I'm going to have a much higher deadlift and squat obviously. I also made a mistake on my weight, I'm actually 220lbs now at 6'0.

[The Immortalist]

 niner, on 11 April 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

 The Immortalist, on 10 April 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Does anyone here know what the best way to cut down on your bodyfat % without losing too much muscle and strength? I am now 200lbs at like 25% bodyfat. When all my main compound lifts(squat, bench, deadlift) are 2X bodyweight I'm going to cut down to 5% bodyfat.

Wouldn't the guys over at M&M have this down to a science?

I just thought I might make a thread here on the subject. I already have a good idea on how to go about it it's just that maybe some people here have some good advice?

[niner]

 The Immortalist, on 12 April 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

 niner, on 11 April 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Wouldn't the guys over at M&M have this down to a science?

I just thought I might make a thread here on the subject. I already have a good idea on how to go about it it's just that maybe some people here have some good advice?

I think that Mike's advice was good, and is a perspective you might not get at M&M:

Quote

I learned my lessons about trying to hit 400lbs bench press a long long time ago. Too much wear and tear on your body and serves no purpose outside of ego.

Over here at The 'tute, (as in Immortality Insti-) you're more likely to get the immortalist perspective, which would be "don't do it", because of the wear and tear, both on joints and tendons and on your metabolism and the state of your cells, which would see suppressed autophagy while you were bulking.

[TheFountain]

 The Immortalist, on 10 April 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

at like 25% bodyfat.

On a high fat, low carb diet?

I do 150 carbs a day on medium/low protein and am around 11% body fat. But I also took a break from working out for a couple months.

[The Immortalist]

 mikeinnaples, on 11 April 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

 niner, on 11 April 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

 The Immortalist, on 10 April 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Does anyone here know what the best way to cut down on your bodyfat % without losing too much muscle and strength? I am now 200lbs at like 25% bodyfat. When all my main compound lifts(squat, bench, deadlift) are 2X bodyweight I'm going to cut down to 5% bodyfat.

You're gonna bench 400lbs?  Are you juicing?  25% seems awfully high.  Is that normal in this phase of the process?  To get to 5%, wouldn't you need to lose something approaching 40lbs?   In the cutting phase, I'd expect you'd want to keep your protein intake high enough to inhibit autophagy / catabolism.  Raise healthy fats and cut carbs, while reducing calories overall.  That would be my best guess, but be forewarned, I'm not a bodybuilding head.  Wouldn't the guys over at M&M have this down to a science?

Case in point, I am 8% body fat at 6'1 / 185lbs. I learned my lessons about trying to hit 400lbs bench press a long long time ago. Too much wear and tear on your body and serves no purpose outside of ego. When I was in the military I was benching 385lbs, but my weight was 235. Significant difference between then and now.

I thought that weightlifting was supposed to make your body stronger, not wear and tear it down.

[The Immortalist]

 niner, on 12 April 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

 The Immortalist, on 12 April 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

 niner, on 11 April 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Wouldn't the guys over at M&M have this down to a science?

I just thought I might make a thread here on the subject. I already have a good idea on how to go about it it's just that maybe some people here have some good advice?

I think that Mike's advice was good, and is a perspective you might not get at M&M:

Quote

I learned my lessons about trying to hit 400lbs bench press a long long time ago. Too much wear and tear on your body and serves no purpose outside of ego.

Over here at The 'tute, (as in Immortality Insti-) you're more likely to get the immortalist perspective, which would be "don't do it", because of the wear and tear, both on joints and tendons and on your metabolism and the state of your cells, which would see suppressed autophagy while you were bulking.

Well I've just reevaluated my goals and I think keeping a 1.5x bodyweight benchpress and a 2x bodyweight squat is more realistic long term. What do you think?

Also I always thought that weightlifting was supposed to make your joints and tendons stronger. Are you saying that is false or were you only implying that extreme powerlifting is not good for the joints?

[The Immortalist]

 TheFountain, on 12 April 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

 The Immortalist, on 10 April 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

at like 25% bodyfat.

On a high fat, low carb diet?

I do 150 carbs a day on medium/low protein and am around 11% body fat. But I also took a break from working out for a couple months.

I'm on a high fat, high carb, high protein diet . I haven't been watching what I've been eating lately. I just eat whatever I want except trans fats and foods with high amounts of refined sugar.

[The Immortalist]

 robosapiens, on 11 April 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

generally..
.8 grams of protien per LB of bodyweight
cut fat and carbs drasticly say. less that 50 grams a say of carbs
lift in the 5 to 8 rep range
very little cardio-, just some walking
lift heavy with low volume

It doesn't seem conducive to my goals. With calories that low you would be bound to lose more muscle then if you ate more but still being in a caloric deficit.

[robosapiens]

If your goal is to loose as much fat as possible without loosing much muscle, that is How. If your goal is to maintain all muscle whilst loosing fat, up the carbs a bit to over 100 grams. Also adding l-luceine helps a lot. Lift in the heavy ranges, volume low. and keep cardio low or none

[APBT]

You can take a look at the link in post #21 here:
http://www.longecity...ittent-fasting/

[The Immortalist]

The biggest question I have is how do I maintain a low bf% once I have attained it without gaining the weight back again? I was 220lbs in dec 2011 and I went on a diet for 2 months and lost 20 lbs. when I got to march 1st 2012 I was 200lbs. I then stopped and went ad libitum with my diet and I just ate normally and now I'm back to 220lbs again. Why did I gain all of it back when I wasn't even trying to bulk up?

Will I have to reduce calories all the time to remain at a low bf%? When I reduce calories I feel tired and brain fogged all the time and don't do well in school. Is it possible to find a baseline where I don't gain any weight but don't lose any either and where I don't feel brain fogged and still keep a sixpack?

So I guess ad libitum is definitely a no no when it comes to being a worthy bearer of the legendary sixpack....

Edited by The Immortalist, 17 April 2012 - 12:27 AM.

[TheFountain]

 The Immortalist, on 16 April 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

 TheFountain, on 12 April 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

 The Immortalist, on 10 April 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

at like 25% bodyfat.

On a high fat, low carb diet?

I do 150 carbs a day on medium/low protein and am around 11% body fat. But I also took a break from working out for a couple months.

I'm on a high fat, high carb, high protein diet . I haven't been watching what I've been eating lately. I just eat whatever I want except trans fats and foods with high amounts of refined sugar.

You just answered your own question. Diet!

[mikeinnaples]

 The Immortalist, on 16 April 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

I thought that weightlifting was supposed to make your body stronger, not wear and tear it down.

Yes, up to a certain point that it true. Benching 400 lbs is way past that point though on the far end of the spectrum.

If your goal is a combination health, strength, and appearance then you will not want to get close to going that heavy.

[mikeinnaples]

 The Immortalist, on 16 April 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Well I've just reevaluated my goals and I think keeping a 1.5x bodyweight benchpress and a 2x bodyweight squat is more realistic long term. What do you think?

Also I always thought that weightlifting was supposed to make your joints and tendons stronger. Are you saying that is false or were you only implying that extreme powerlifting is not good for the joints?

That is a far more realistic goal.  At my height of 6'1 and staying at around 185lbs as a maintenance weight, I am repping at 225 bench / 315 squat / 500 leg press ...so I would suspect my max is ballpark of 1.5/2x respectively for bench/squat. I have to be a little careful still with squats post surgery I had earlier this year, so I suspect I wont ever ramp them up as much as I used to.

Anyways, I got a 6 pack and hover around 8% body fat ...and look and feel pretty damn good for my age. I also limit most of my cardio to HIIT and HIIT like activites like surfing, though I do mix in one day a week or so doing a moderate paced continuous run.