• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

A very real talk about the very real Depersonalization Disorder

depersonalization derealization

  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#1 Rior

  • Guest
  • 279 posts
  • 71
  • Location:Interwebs

Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:48 AM


So to start: Have you ever experienced a bout of depersonalization before? Do you personally deal with Depersonalization Disorder on a day-to-day basis? If you have ever dealt with depersonalization for any extended period of time, how did you manage to overcome it?

To my own story:
I'm now going on almost two years of depersonalization. It happened to me after a bad combination of bad psychedelic trips, with 2c-e being the primary culprit. For whatever reason or another, 2c-e annihilated my mind--where for others it's relatively mild cognition-wise. My days are filled with obsessive rumination, complete feelings of disconnection, and no emotion. Not always, but most days. I try to combat this through mindfulness meditation and ever-changing supplements. My regimen has been anything from tianeptine (exclusively) to Pramiracetam+other stuff (less important), to Armodafinil+other stuff, to my current blend of Ashwagandha+5htp+tongkat ali+Zinc+other stuff. All have had the occasional tianeptine mixed in, as the occasional tianeptine--especially in combination with ashwagandha, so far--seems very good at combating this depersonalization.

The only problem, is that no matter what stack I use or how I switch it up, the supplement therapy only seems to work for a few days at most--then I overthink it and fall right back into full-blown depersonalization. Like tonight, which served as the inspiration for this post.



But that leads me back to my most important initial question: To those of you who have undergone this terrible, terrible, debilitating experience, how have you found your way out?

I've just tonight fully come to terms with it, and started looking on DP/DR forums for advice. Will probably see a psychiatrist very soon about it, and a therapist.

#2 Reformed-Redan

  • Guest
  • 2,200 posts
  • -9
  • Location:Thousand Oaks, CA

Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:15 AM

Dr. Evan Torch calls a combination of an SSRI and Modafinil "the hidden pearl that can really help depersonalization disorder".[62]


  • like x 1

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 unregistered_user

  • Guest
  • 721 posts
  • 169
  • Location:Washington DC

Posted 14 April 2012 - 02:24 AM

I was just going to quote that, redan.

I dealt with DPD as a youth but it was transient. It was pretty bad for at least a year or more. I tend to believe it is self-perpetuating. It's traumatic and whatever caused it was likely a traumatic event. Once you realize the effects of DPD you begin to obsess over them which keeps the disorder alive.

I wish I had good advice to offer but my condition just resolved on it's own once I became more focused on living my life and less fixated on my perception of the world around me.

#4 Gamerzneed

  • Guest
  • 71 posts
  • 7
  • Location:USA

Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:14 AM

you should read the thread "DXM induced psychosis", the thread starter talks about how naloxone/naltrexone helped him dealing with his DXM induced depersonalization after his DXM (cough syrup) abuse. Who knows though, it may help you. Check it out.

#5 Rior

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 279 posts
  • 71
  • Location:Interwebs

Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:12 AM

I was just going to quote that, redan.

I dealt with DPD as a youth but it was transient. It was pretty bad for at least a year or more. I tend to believe it is self-perpetuating. It's traumatic and whatever caused it was likely a traumatic event. Once you realize the effects of DPD you begin to obsess over them which keeps the disorder alive.

I wish I had good advice to offer but my condition just resolved on it's own once I became more focused on living my life and less fixated on my perception of the world around me.


Yeah I've definitely realized that DPD is a self-perpetuating illness. It's kept alive through the every waking second I spend thinking about it. I hadn't looked into fixing it at all very much over the past 2 years, kind of figuring I would just figure it out as I go, but all it's been has been constant regret over the fact that I put myself into such a state and constant wishing I could have never done what I did. Of course, that works VERY WELL at keeping DPD alive and well.

So now, over the past few days, I've finally fully come to terms with it and have been spending a decent amount of time looking up what other people have done to conquer it, and am working on "letting go" so-to-speak, of the fact that it's been stuck with me. I know as soon as I fully let go, I can get past it and never look back. Never looking back is key, from what I've learned.

I'll consider Naltrexone, and I have after doing a bit of reading, but I'm hoping I can find a non-medicated way to beat it. We'll see.

Thanks for the responses guys

#6 jadamgo

  • Guest
  • 701 posts
  • 157
  • Location:USA

Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:37 PM

Develop specific activities that you plan to do whenever you notice yourself ruminating on the feelings of depersonalization.

I experienced significant depersonalization in the context of intensive meditation, though it was explained to me as "a normal side effect that occasionally comes but always goes away again." So while I had depersonalization, I never developed a depersonalization disorder. Still, I did find out some things that helped deal with it until it went away.

From my perspective, the problem is not the feeling of depersonalization itself -- it's the obsessiveness of the mind constantly returning to the depersonalization, hundreds of times per day, over and over again. An SSRI would in fact be great at reducing obsessive thinking. But it works far better in combination with behavior modification than by itself.

The behavior modification recommended for this situation is as follows: When you notice yourself ruminating on anything, especially the depersonalization, stand up. Go do something that will distract you from the depersonalization. It generally only takes 5-15 minutes to cut off an obsessive thought cycle.

The next time the rumination happens, do the procedure again. By doing this procedure over and over again, you will stop feeding the anxious rumination and self-directed attention that drives this dissociative condition. (BTW, this "rumination replacement technique" also works wonders for depressive rumination, worry in GAD, and unrequited love.) From my experience with this technique, you start feeling better within the first few days of using it regularly, but it takes 1-3 months to actually cure the condition.
  • like x 1

#7 Spectre

  • Guest
  • 208 posts
  • 57
  • Location:USA

Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:34 PM

Depersonalization is one of the worst things in the world to deal with. Suboxone (which contains buprenorphine + naloxone), completely took me out of my depersonalization while I was on it, but it was only for a couple weeks..my DPD was induced by DXM & salvia use (which was from the agonization of my k-opioid receptors), and buprenorphine (as well as naloxone), are potent k-opioid receptor antagonists. However, my DPD isn't fully cured at this point, I would have probably seen more pronounced effects if I was still on suboxone, it made me feel great, but it's still potentially addictive. I have started taking a few new supplements for my DPD though, and have been getting some decent results. (I quit taking naltrexone for the moment, I was only on it for a few days, but the effects weren't very notable if at all, I'll run it later on after my current supplement regimen).

I started using Hypothalmex, Hypothalamus PMG, Symplex M, and Black Current Seed Oil. I was doing a lot of reading on DPD and in the dpselfhelp forums came across this link:

http://curezone.com/...m.asp?i=1865493

The guy talks about how a dysfunctional HPA-axis is the cause of anxiety and the depersonalization that accompanies it, and mentions the aforementioned supplements as being useful in combating DPD. I've been on them for a week and have already noticed an improvement in the way I think and feel. I believe the effects are cumulative and will be more pronounced the longer I'm on it. Other people on the DPD forums mentioned positive results from these products, so I gave it a shot myself. I'll be on the Hypothalmex and Hypothalamus PMG for 2 months straight.

I must also mention that since I started taking choline before bed (in the form of soy lecithin), I've seen a great improvement in my sleeping patterns, and I wake up in a more positive state of mind..the current supplement regimen I'm taking is really working out better than any of my previous combinations.

AM:
- Hypothalmex
- Hypothalamus PMG
- Symplex M
- Black Current Oil
- Cod Liver Oil
- DLPA (750mg, seen improvement in energy and mood since taking this as well)
- Ginseng complex (M,W,F)
- Vitamin E (400iu)
- Vitamin C (1g)
- N-Acetylcysteine (2g)
- Ginkgo biloba (120mg)

PM:
- Soy lecithin (for phosphatidylcholine)
- Lithium Aspartate (5mg)
- Grapeseed extract
- L-Arginine

I'm also going to start taking mucuna pruriens, which contains l-dopa (precursor to dopamine). My motivation level has always been down, and distractibility has always been up. I hypothesize that it's because of a lack of dopamine being produced in my brain (I was diagnosed with BP type II accompanied with ADHD when I was a youth). The suboxone I took completely skyrocketed my ability to focus, my motivation was through the roof, and my anxiety disappeared. I definitely believe it's due to the k-opioid receptor antagonism, and it's theorized that the k-opioid receptor system is the culprit in the majority of DPD cases. K-opioid receptor agonism is linked with impaired dopamine functioning, which I attribute to my lack of motivation and focus. Once I fine tune my regimen some more, I'll update you on the results and let you know how it affects me..because I honestly believe this combination can help out a LOT of people. (granted, the supplement regimen is pretty big at the moment..but it's making me feel better than ever. I feel my testosterone levels increasing, my anxiety going away, increased energy, improved focus and memory, just all-around better). Good luck with everything man, and let me know if there's anything I can do to help.

Edited by Spectre, 14 April 2012 - 07:39 PM.


#8 Now

  • Guest
  • 162 posts
  • 56
  • Location:Netherlands.

Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:05 AM

I'm reading a book about ACT (Acceptance and commitment therapy) and I think it's worth a try in DPD. ACT is empirically-based and one of the developers (Steven C. Hayes) has written a book named 'Get out of your mind and into your life.'

Good luck!

#9 alonsogar

  • Guest
  • 19 posts
  • 0
  • Location:San Diego, USA

Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:06 PM

Why did you stop taking Suboxone and why is it that Naltrexone didn't work for you since its supposed to be an opiod antagonist?




Depersonalization is one of the worst things in the world to deal with. Suboxone (which contains buprenorphine + naloxone), completely took me out of my depersonalization while I was on it, but it was only for a couple weeks..my DPD was induced by DXM & salvia use (which was from the agonization of my k-opioid receptors), and buprenorphine (as well as naloxone), are potent k-opioid receptor antagonists. However, my DPD isn't fully cured at this point, I would have probably seen more pronounced effects if I was still on suboxone, it made me feel great, but it's still potentially addictive. I have started taking a few new supplements for my DPD though, and have been getting some decent results. (I quit taking naltrexone for the moment, I was only on it for a few days, but the effects weren't very notable if at all, I'll run it later on after my current supplement regimen).

I started using Hypothalmex, Hypothalamus PMG, Symplex M, and Black Current Seed Oil. I was doing a lot of reading on DPD and in the dpselfhelp forums came across this link:

http://curezone.com/...m.asp?i=1865493

The guy talks about how a dysfunctional HPA-axis is the cause of anxiety and the depersonalization that accompanies it, and mentions the aforementioned supplements as being useful in combating DPD. I've been on them for a week and have already noticed an improvement in the way I think and feel. I believe the effects are cumulative and will be more pronounced the longer I'm on it. Other people on the DPD forums mentioned positive results from these products, so I gave it a shot myself. I'll be on the Hypothalmex and Hypothalamus PMG for 2 months straight.

I must also mention that since I started taking choline before bed (in the form of soy lecithin), I've seen a great improvement in my sleeping patterns, and I wake up in a more positive state of mind..the current supplement regimen I'm taking is really working out better than any of my previous combinations.

AM:
- Hypothalmex
- Hypothalamus PMG
- Symplex M
- Black Current Oil
- Cod Liver Oil
- DLPA (750mg, seen improvement in energy and mood since taking this as well)
- Ginseng complex (M,W,F)
- Vitamin E (400iu)
- Vitamin C (1g)
- N-Acetylcysteine (2g)
- Ginkgo biloba (120mg)

PM:
- Soy lecithin (for phosphatidylcholine)
- Lithium Aspartate (5mg)
- Grapeseed extract
- L-Arginine

I'm also going to start taking mucuna pruriens, which contains l-dopa (precursor to dopamine). My motivation level has always been down, and distractibility has always been up. I hypothesize that it's because of a lack of dopamine being produced in my brain (I was diagnosed with BP type II accompanied with ADHD when I was a youth). The suboxone I took completely skyrocketed my ability to focus, my motivation was through the roof, and my anxiety disappeared. I definitely believe it's due to the k-opioid receptor antagonism, and it's theorized that the k-opioid receptor system is the culprit in the majority of DPD cases. K-opioid receptor agonism is linked with impaired dopamine functioning, which I attribute to my lack of motivation and focus. Once I fine tune my regimen some more, I'll update you on the results and let you know how it affects me..because I honestly believe this combination can help out a LOT of people. (granted, the supplement regimen is pretty big at the moment..but it's making me feel better than ever. I feel my testosterone levels increasing, my anxiety going away, increased energy, improved focus and memory, just all-around better). Good luck with everything man, and let me know if there's anything I can do to help.



#10 Rior

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 279 posts
  • 71
  • Location:Interwebs

Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:09 AM

Well because this thread has been brought back to life, I figure I'll chime in with current progress. I've re-started a regimen of 37.5mg of Zoloft, on top of Bacopa and Lion's Mane mushroom, with Acetyl-l-Carnitine. The purpose being to exhibit the anxiolytic effects of the Bacopa, as well as using the Lion's mane to regrow areas of my brain damaged by previous concussions. I though previously that my DPD was associated with 2c-e, however I think it is more related to the five concussions I've had and the mental stress I was under in the following year after the last one.

My DPD is essentially gone. I've taught myself to simply not care about it, and with time it has become easier and easier to simply live. I'm still working on it, and plan on using Cerebrolysin to bring everything to the fullest benefit, however it's --far-- better than it was when I originally posted this. I do have to thank Zoloft for that, it's always been a great anxiolytic therapy for me (at very low doses).
  • like x 1

#11 xeon

  • Guest
  • 153 posts
  • 20
  • Location:USA

Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:39 PM

Well because this thread has been brought back to life, I figure I'll chime in with current progress. I've re-started a regimen of 37.5mg of Zoloft, on top of Bacopa and Lion's Mane mushroom, with Acetyl-l-Carnitine. The purpose being to exhibit the anxiolytic effects of the Bacopa, as well as using the Lion's mane to regrow areas of my brain damaged by previous concussions. I though previously that my DPD was associated with 2c-e, however I think it is more related to the five concussions I've had and the mental stress I was under in the following year after the last one.

My DPD is essentially gone. I've taught myself to simply not care about it, and with time it has become easier and easier to simply live. I'm still working on it, and plan on using Cerebrolysin to bring everything to the fullest benefit, however it's --far-- better than it was when I originally posted this. I do have to thank Zoloft for that, it's always been a great anxiolytic therapy for me (at very low doses).


I'm pumped to hear your DPD is much better now. I had it for about 2 years and mine is mostly gone but I'm still working on it. Does Bacopa do anything good for you specifically?

#12 Tom_

  • Guest
  • 1,120 posts
  • -31
  • Location:england

Posted 02 June 2013 - 12:00 AM

For any interested I have input on pharmacological treatments for DPD. I certainly also recognise the use of therapy/behavioual technequies but inrelation to dissasociation remain blissfully unaware.

SSRI + Modafinil

Lamotragine (given 12 weeks)

Clonazepam (obviously not long term)

The drugs that work tentitivly suggest it might have something to do with glutamate transmission.
  • dislike x 1
  • like x 1

#13 Guest_Funiture2_*

  • Lurker
  • 0

Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:44 AM

Well because this thread has been brought back to life, I figure I'll chime in with current progress. I've re-started a regimen of 37.5mg of Zoloft, on top of Bacopa and Lion's Mane mushroom, with Acetyl-l-Carnitine. The purpose being to exhibit the anxiolytic effects of the Bacopa, as well as using the Lion's mane to regrow areas of my brain damaged by previous concussions. I though previously that my DPD was associated with 2c-e, however I think it is more related to the five concussions I've had and the mental stress I was under in the following year after the last one.

My DPD is essentially gone. I've taught myself to simply not care about it, and with time it has become easier and easier to simply live. I'm still working on it, and plan on using Cerebrolysin to bring everything to the fullest benefit, however it's --far-- better than it was when I originally posted this. I do have to thank Zoloft for that, it's always been a great anxiolytic therapy for me (at very low doses).


I think I experienced some depersonalization after 25-i use. 25-i is deemed "synthetic LSD" and i think 2c-e is "synthetic mushrooms". Both are very unsafe and 2c-e probably contributed toward your depersonalization. After consistent 25-i use, I found it more and more difficult to find my words, I experienced social anxiety, severe depression, and what may have been depersonalization. I became more aware of myself and my actions, I mean that in the most negative way, like everyone was watching me and it was difficult to act natural. I would enter thought loops where I would think the same sentence over and over. I felt no motivation or pleasure towards life. I felt like I had died and I had no personality left. I became suicidal. It was the toughest period of my life. 25-i is a full agonist on the 5htp2a receptor (very few compounds do this) which I think is potentially extremely dangerous. After radically altering my diet, engaging in aerobic & anaerobic exercise daily, getting plenty of sunshine, quitting marijuana, and introducing my stack (noopept+ashwagandha+other beneficial supplements), I would say that I am very much recovered. Please let this be a warning to those that take any designer drugs or "tabs" which they think is something else.

#14 socialpiranha

  • Guest
  • 540 posts
  • 63
  • Location:Nova Scotia

Posted 20 February 2014 - 03:31 PM

dp/dr is, i believe, is a prolonged/unresolved form of fear. In most scary experiences the fear stimulus disappears not long after but when it comes to more real fears like death and the fact that you are a biological robot on a rock in the middle of space, that fear is much more resistant to resolution.

The worst part of dp/dr for me was and to some extent still is the fact that i understand and am willing to accept how strange and unfamiliar this life is and most people are not. That disconnect is the real problem, everyone is pretending life is totally normal and average when really it is insanely incredible and uncertain and terrifying and unstable and trippy. Humans are heavily taught things to make "this" seem normal and no big deal etc(religion mainly) precisely because the direct acceptance of the reality of it is so intense that it can drive people insane. Or at least make them shameless hedonists.

There is a reason dp/dr(and schizophrenia and bipolar disorder) is most often brought on by psychedelic drug use in early to mid twenties. It's because that's when the mind begins to really come to terms with mortality and identity. The fact that I am this biological robot and one day it will cease to exist is something which needs to be treated very delicately over a long period of time. Intense trauma (death of a loved one, abuse, social rejection) or psychedelic drug use can force this fact into view in a way that creates an unresolved fear response that can last for years. that is dp/dr.
  • like x 3
  • Agree x 2

#15 xeon

  • Guest
  • 153 posts
  • 20
  • Location:USA

Posted 20 February 2014 - 05:00 PM

dp/dr is, i believe, is a prolonged/unresolved form of fear. In most scary experiences the fear stimulus disappears not long after but when it comes to more real fears like death and the fact that you are a biological robot on a rock in the middle of space, that fear is much more resistant to resolution.

The worst part of dp/dr for me was and to some extent still is the fact that i understand and am willing to accept how strange and unfamiliar this life is and most people are not. That disconnect is the real problem, everyone is pretending life is totally normal and average when really it is insanely incredible and uncertain and terrifying and unstable and trippy. Humans are heavily taught things to make "this" seem normal and no big deal etc(religion mainly) precisely because the direct acceptance of the reality of it is so intense that it can drive people insane. Or at least make them shameless hedonists.

There is a reason dp/dr(and schizophrenia and bipolar disorder) is most often brought on by psychedelic drug use in early to mid twenties. It's because that's when the mind begins to really come to terms with mortality and identity. The fact that I am this biological robot and one day it will cease to exist is something which needs to be treated very delicately over a long period of time. Intense trauma (death of a loved one, abuse, social rejection) or psychedelic drug use can force this fact into view in a way that creates an unresolved fear response that can last for years. that is dp/dr.


As someone who has experienced DP/DR for almost 2 years (which is now mostly resolved), I completely agree with every word of this. I believe that I could not cope with the reality of this life at the time, and through drug use and stress I was forced to face the fact of what life really is. I was no longer able to block out how insane and not-so-comfortable this life really is. The illusion no longer blinded me from reality and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I am a completely different person now that I have faced reality more and the fear of being independent, etc. I also faced the death of a close loved one, and there was no comfort. That is life and it is real. But because of these experiences, I have learned how to deal with things a lot better and my DP/DR has slowly faded over the course of me learning to cope.

I wish more people would consider this instead of simply believing they just have some sort of weird mental disorder that happened for no real reason or because they have faulty hardwiring in their brains. Learning to cope with reality is the only thing that helped me. Realizing there are things that I am deathly terrified of and facing them. Desensitizing myself to things instead of mentally ignoring them. Hopefully people will read this and take it into consideration.

Also remember that psychedelic drugs and sometimes even marijuana and alcohol can de-stabilize your mental resources that keep your fears hidden deeply in the back of your mind. They can and will come to the forefront and affect you if they are there, depending on your genetics/beliefs/coping mechanisms, etc. Especially, as socialpiranha said, in your early to mid-twenties (there are exceptions).

In a way I am actually glad to have gone through DP/DR and was forced to face my fears of death, loved ones dying, social rejection, etc. Having gone through it I feel like I can handle life with much more strength and acceptance without resorting to denial or ignorance.

If anyone has any questions for me and my experience, which is very accurately described by socialpiranha, then feel free to ask me here or PM me.

Edited by xeon, 20 February 2014 - 05:01 PM.

  • like x 1

#16 sparkk51

  • Guest
  • 418 posts
  • 36
  • Location:TX, US

Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:46 PM

Can be depersonalization be when you're just going through the motions of life without any desire for change? I am not really sure I understand what it is.

#17 celebes

  • Guest
  • 226 posts
  • 71
  • Location:TATL
  • NO

Posted 21 February 2014 - 03:23 AM

dp/dr is, i believe, is a prolonged/unresolved form of fear. In most scary experiences the fear stimulus disappears not long after but when it comes to more real fears like death and the fact that you are a biological robot on a rock in the middle of space, that fear is much more resistant to resolution.

The worst part of dp/dr for me was and to some extent still is the fact that i understand and am willing to accept how strange and unfamiliar this life is and most people are not. That disconnect is the real problem, everyone is pretending life is totally normal and average when really it is insanely incredible and uncertain and terrifying and unstable and trippy. Humans are heavily taught things to make "this" seem normal and no big deal etc(religion mainly) precisely because the direct acceptance of the reality of it is so intense that it can drive people insane. Or at least make them shameless hedonists.

There is a reason dp/dr(and schizophrenia and bipolar disorder) is most often brought on by psychedelic drug use in early to mid twenties. It's because that's when the mind begins to really come to terms with mortality and identity. The fact that I am this biological robot and one day it will cease to exist is something which needs to be treated very delicately over a long period of time. Intense trauma (death of a loved one, abuse, social rejection) or psychedelic drug use can force this fact into view in a way that creates an unresolved fear response that can last for years. that is dp/dr.



You couldn't have put it better.

#18 sk_scientific

  • Guest
  • 256 posts
  • 34
  • Location:United States
  • NO

Posted 21 February 2014 - 06:12 AM

Reading this post is for when you are dead. Move along.

Attached Files


Edited by sk_scientific, 21 February 2014 - 06:15 AM.

  • dislike x 2

#19 sk_scientific

  • Guest
  • 256 posts
  • 34
  • Location:United States
  • NO

Posted 21 February 2014 - 07:03 AM

Negative one is fair for that. My apologies.

#20 mrnootropic

  • Guest
  • 180 posts
  • 13
  • Location:United Kingdom

Posted 04 June 2014 - 11:08 AM

Can anyone else chime in and help me ? don't want to start a new thread, so I'm asking for help in relevant threads.

I'm experienced with supplements, the medical community and understand scientific literature etc. But i have little knowledge about Depersonalization.

 

The substances that i used which lead to Depresion, Fatigue & Depersonalization are :

 

Cannabis : From age 14 to 18 (Caused Paranoia & Anxiety after 3years)

Synthetic Cannabis (Spice) : Used only once, 10 grams (This is what triggered mental fatigue and Mild DP)

Salvia Divinorum : Used 10-15 times, I ingested a total of 15 grams. This trigger DP more severely.

Cannabis :Cannabis made the symptoms from Saliva and the Synthetic Cannabis worse and i believe Cannabis was not the root cause but was the potenitator, eventually cannabis use became hazardous to my health & started to cause symptoms of DP, Depression & fatigue. (I stopped 5 years ago).

 

I want to heal from Cannabis, Synthetic Cannabis & Saliva. 

I havent used any other drugs ever, except for Alcohol which ive only tried on occasions.

Im going to use Low Dose Naltexone, to heal from Saliva use.

 

I dont know how to heal from the Cannabis & Synthetic Cannabis & Cannabinoids. 

I cannot get a hold of any Rimonabant as its been banned / taken of off the market.

 

Can anyone chime in and help me ?? Thanks!.

 

P.S, I am not willing to take any Benzos or SSRI's such as Clonazepam. I lead a healthy life & healthy diet. & dont want any SSRI's in my routine. 

 

I want to heal the Root Cause, Which is Cannabis & Saliva use / Synthetic Cannabis use. & SSRI's  or Benzos do not necessarily treat the root cause.

 

Thanks.

 

 


Edited by Mr.Nootropic, 04 June 2014 - 11:11 AM.


#21 scitris

  • Guest
  • 61 posts
  • 9
  • Location:GER
  • NO

Posted 04 June 2014 - 04:36 PM

DP/DR were and are still a part of my life and for most a part of a bigger symptomcluster.

It sounds ridiculous but i have accepted this symptom so much that i called/call it partner and master.

Why? because if you accept it and looking at that what dp is showing you, then you have the option to learn maybe the most important things of your life.

To make it short: the human is nothing more than a robot.

Sense doesnt exist, but human seeks for it, finds it where he wants to find it.

 

Just that two points are massive. All your thoughts that you had in your life were moving and growing all your life

from a starter point that was false. That is one point of view another is to see directly all the conclusions from that two points

and it will lead you to the same conclusions. One leads to another. 

And that brings you the chance to see that the answer of something is never difficult,

it only seems difficult from the view of the human or preciser difficult from a view from a human who got educated to think like a human.

 

A bad player of life tries to adapt the reality to their worldpicture,

but a good player knows that he has to adapt his worldpicture to the reality.

A part of something can never be greater as the whole thing.

 

Myself is a illusion. Not my body but to think about me as being somebody as being possible to be somebody.

 

I know that this sentences looks like something from a film or from someone who wants attention.

But i could explain every sentence and point precisely. 

But Im sure here are enough people who understands without great explaination.

 

But to explain why im thinking in this art is, because at the beginning from my dp/dr where it was worst.

It fragmented myself, my consciousness, my mental me into pieces. I didnt know anymore who i was, also not what a thought is or thinking,

but it was ridiculous at the same time. To think about not being able anymore to think or not more knowing what thinking is, was product of thinking itself. So conclusion was that im thinking wihtout knowing that im thinking. It was like to be not able to "hear" my thoughts. That was my second starting point and a point of no return. There is nothing more for me than understanding.

 

 

 

 

Some thoughts of mine :)


Edited by scitris, 04 June 2014 - 05:02 PM.


#22 xeon

  • Guest
  • 153 posts
  • 20
  • Location:USA

Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:39 AM

 

 

Can anyone chime in and help me ?? Thanks!.

 

Mr.Nootropic: I've experienced DP/DR myself for a chunk of time larger than what I would have preferred (about 2 years). I would say I am mostly better now. It was also accompanied by depression and fatigue as well, but those factors were not as important to me as the DP/DR because of how frightening it is. I focused on those mainly after the DP/DR mostly subsided.

  • May I ask exactly how long you have been depersonalized?
  • Are you able to describe to what degree you are depersonalized, on a scale of 1-10 and does it fluctuate?
  • Have you figured out anything that makes it better or worse at all - such as supplements or foods or medicines of any kind, or any type of activity?
  • Overall, have your symptoms improved or gotten worse since they began?

I had pretty severe depersonalization and it was after smoking cannabis, but I don't think it was the only cause. My depersonalization was on and off for maybe a month or so, some days I felt totally normal and some days I felt everything was very unreal... until I tried to seek help for panic attacks and was placed on Zoloft. About day 3 of taking Zoloft my symptoms of DP/DR became what I think to be as maxed out as they could possibly be for me. It became full-blown and I had a very difficult time dealing with it, but I made it through it. 

 

I am not an expert on DP/DR and how it works in the brain by any means, but I do know some about it from experience and reading online. 

 

First of all, if you have any underlying anxiety that you know about you should get that treated/resolved. Anxiety was a major player for me. The more underlying anxiety I had the worse my DP/DR was. I've read that you can take Low Dose Naltrexone to reverse symptoms of DP/DR so that implies it works through the brain's opioid system. In my experience, when my DP/DR started to subside, I started to sense a lot more physical pain in my body. Pain felt a LOT more like actual pain and it was very noticeable. Not very pleasant, but it let me know I wasn't as disconnected any longer. So maybe DP/DR and the opioid system are related somehow. Also, when I took anything Serotonergic, or anything that reduced dopamine activity in my brain such as 5-HTP, L-Tryptophan, SSRI's, etc., it made my DP/DR worse. I tried taking Adderall which I was prescribed at one point and it (for at least an hour or two) made me feel like things were more real again. Also mild stimulants such as ginseng had this affect to a lesser degree. This leads me to suspect the dopamine system is involved as well. However, I don't think dopaminergic drugs or supplements are the answer to ridding yourself of DP/DR. 

 

I stopped drinking caffeine entirely or anything that interrupted quality sleep at night. The GABA/benzo system in the brain may be disrupted from cannabis use and need to heal. There could be disruptions in melatonin activity as well. I think cannabis is known to affect these. If you aren't getting really good sleep, all sorts of bad things happen and DP/DR may be heavily affected by this, so its imperative you do everything within your grasp to take care of your brain's health. I didn't realize how bad my sleep quality was until I started sleeping better after I stopped caffeine.

 

A supplement for regenerating GABA receptors which should help with anxiety is Bacopa. It has helped me tremendously. 



#23 drg

  • Guest
  • 332 posts
  • 10
  • Location:Canada
  • NO

Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:55 AM

For me it has been the opposite way around I believe my bipolar caused any depersonalization I have experiened not any pot that I smoked. Although the pot always made it worse, the DP persisted even after long periods of abstinence from pot. My DP always occurred during severe bouts of fatigue, tiredness and depression and when that lifted the DP was gone. Also DP can be a personality trait that you develop from your bad habits. Anyways I would say SSRIs are fairly harmless meds and if you suffer from depression u should consider them



#24 mrnootropic

  • Guest
  • 180 posts
  • 13
  • Location:United Kingdom

Posted 05 June 2014 - 08:33 AM

 

  • May I ask exactly how long you have been depersonalized?
  • Are you able to describe to what degree you are depersonalized, on a scale of 1-10 and does it fluctuate?
  • Have you figured out anything that makes it better or worse at all - such as supplements or foods or medicines of any kind, or any type of activity?
  • Overall, have your symptoms improved or gotten worse since they began?

I had pretty severe depersonalization and it was after smoking cannabis, but I don't think it was the only cause. My depersonalization was on and off for maybe a month or so

 

I am not an expert on DP/DR and how it works in the brain by any means, but I do know some about it from experience and reading online. 

 

First of all, if you have any underlying anxiety that you know about you should get that treated/resolved. Anxiety was a major player for me. The more underlying anxiety I had the worse my DP/DR was. I've read that you can take Low Dose Naltrexone to reverse symptoms of DP/DR so that implies it works through the brain's opioid system. r. So maybe DP/DR and the opioid system are related somehow. Also, when I took anything Serotonergic, or anything that reduced dopamine activity in my brain such as 5-HTP, L-Tryptophan, SSRI's, etc., it made my DP/DR worse.

 

 

A supplement for regenerating GABA receptors which should help with anxiety is Bacopa. It has helped me tremendously. 

 

 

Hi there!.. Thanks for the response.

I have suffered with Depersonalization ever since i first smoked Saliva Divinorum, about 6 years ago.

 

My Depersonalization on a scale of 1-10 is on average around 4. Its not effecting me from being happy or from being mentally stable.  Its just affecting me socially and sometimes i just really dont want to talk to anyone. Its been on a scale of 4, for about 2 years.

 

My Depersonalization is very mild, but this is just as bad. I just don't feel like myself at all. I cannot describe the symptoms or my feelings as its very hard to describe.

I feel like salvia or even cannabis aswell, have changed and re-wired my brain and this has left me a totally different person and i cant find myself. And as a result i feel like this.

 

If i was to Pinpoint the exact reason why, here it is : 

Ok, so anyone who has smoked Salvia Divinorum, knows that it completely distorts your reality once you have inhaled it.  This trip is very intense, whilst only short lasting.

 

However, this is where all my problems lie. The effects from Salvia Divinourm have stayed with me and i havent smoked it in 5 years. So i feel like the Salvia has affected my brain, and my brain hasnt healed or recovered.

 

Its like my brain is still on the Salvia. And like my brain is still recovering from cannabis, but the cannabis effects are brain fog & anxiety. 

I feel like i need to heal my brain from Salvia. And heal from cannabis. 

 

So i feel like i need to reset my brain.. Im just trying to work out how .. 


Edited by Mr.Nootropic, 05 June 2014 - 08:34 AM.


#25 xeon

  • Guest
  • 153 posts
  • 20
  • Location:USA

Posted 07 June 2014 - 06:00 AM

I can't be completely certain about this, but it seems to be the case that Salvia activates the k-opioid receptor subtype which may be causing the dysphoria and depersonalization in your particular case. Low Dose Naltrexone may actually help reverse these symptoms if I'm not mistaken. Have you tried this yet? Please let me know how this goes if/when you do.

 

For the brain-fog associated with cannabis consumption, you may consider herbs such as Bacopa. You can look at other threads on this forum for more information about this. I saw one account of a person taking Bacopa and it helped them recover from some cannabis related brain-fog and memory issues. I believe it was was a friend of Devinthayer that he mentioned in one of his posts, if you would like to search for it. 


  • like x 1

#26 xeon

  • Guest
  • 153 posts
  • 20
  • Location:USA

Posted 07 June 2014 - 07:49 AM

14164918338.jpeg

http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Unreal-Depersonalization-Disorder-Loss/dp/0195385217

 

I've scanned through this book and it has some of the best in-depth information about Depersonalization Disorder that is out there. I highly suggest it if you are serious about learning more about depersonalization and how to treat it. There may be more books out there about DP/DR that I am unaware of, but I know this one is legitimate. Please consider reading it instead of focusing solely on advice and info from people online. You may or may not be able to download it online as well *cough cough*.

 

Here is an excerpt from this book:

There are three endogenous opioid systems in the brain, the mu, kappa,

and delta systems. Both the mu and the kappa systems have been to some
degree implicated in depersonalization. Stress-induced analgesia (the loss of
sensitivity to pain) is known to be mediated by the mu endogenous opioid
system (EOS). For example, in veterans suffering from com bat-related PTSD,
the analgesic response to combat scenes can be blocked by pretreatment with
the opioid blocker naloxone. With respect to the kappa opioid system, the
kappa opioid agonist enadoline has been shown to induce a "clean" depersonalization-
like syndrome in healthy subjects when compared to placebo,
with perceptual disturbances and a sense of detachment as its primary psychological
manifestations.

 

 

Edited by xeon, 07 June 2014 - 07:56 AM.

  • like x 1

#27 DaneV

  • Guest
  • 98 posts
  • 6
  • Location:nl

Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:59 AM

I Can relate to Salvia Divinorum being a factor in DP. I`ve smoked it once 4 years ago, which resulted in a dysphoric trip and feelings of unreality, headaches and fatigue the days afterwards. These symptoms persisted for over a year in a lesser degree, and I`m still not sure if my current HPA dysfunction (or whatever you like to call it) is related to my salvia use. I Tend to think Salvia just triggered something that was under the surface already like most occasions when you see stories like "I Used substance X once, then I developed anxiety symptoms that persisted for years". Like Paul David from anxietynomore , who describes he developed a severe anxiety disorder (with DP being one of the most troublesome symptoms) after using plain old cannabis once.

 

 



#28 mrnootropic

  • Guest
  • 180 posts
  • 13
  • Location:United Kingdom

Posted 07 June 2014 - 12:22 PM

Low Dose Naltrexone may actually help reverse these symptoms if I'm not mistaken. Have you tried this yet? Please let me know how this goes if/when you do.

 

For the brain-fog associated with cannabis consumption, you may consider herbs such as Bacopa. 

 

Hi there, thanks for all of your help man. Its appreciated. 

I haven't tried Low Dose Naltrexone, but I've been deciding whether to buy some for the past 2 weeks.

I  plan on buying some in the 2-3 weeks. As for Bacopa, yes ive tried it, however im going to try it again, but from a better source and make sure its high quality.

 

Ive also read your second post on Feeling Unreal.

 

I've come to the same conclusion, i really believe that it is the endogenous opioid systems in the brain,

that triggered DP, and play a massive part in this. 

This is why i presumed Naltrexone was suitable after researching how it works, and then i eventually found out 

that it is used for Depersonalization which is no surprise. 

 

And then i found out Saliva Divinorum, works as a  κ-opioid agonist. So there is no surprise on the links between the endogenous opioid systems and Depersonalization.



#29 mrnootropic

  • Guest
  • 180 posts
  • 13
  • Location:United Kingdom

Posted 07 June 2014 - 12:32 PM

I Can relate to Salvia Divinorum being a factor in DP. I`ve smoked it once 4 years ago, which resulted in a dysphoric trip and feelings of unreality, headaches and fatigue the days afterwards. These symptoms persisted for over a year in a lesser degree, and I`m still not sure if my current HPA dysfunction (or whatever you like to call it) is related to my salvia use. I Tend to think Salvia just triggered something that was under the surface already like most occasions when you see stories like "I Used substance X once, then I developed anxiety symptoms that persisted for years". Like Paul David from anxietynomore , who describes he developed a severe anxiety disorder (with DP being one of the most troublesome symptoms) after using plain old cannabis once.

 

 

 

Yeah similar things happened to me.

I dont agree with this Under-The-Surface issues, because in reality there is none. Not for issues Drugs and Psychoactive substances can create.  Yeah, there are Under the Surface issues in everyday life, which drugs could actually amplify, i do agree on that.

 

I agree with somebody i wish i could quote, but basically this is it :

When you drink Alcohol or take drugs and develop issues, it is primarily because of the areas of the brain these drugs are affecting and without the use of these drugs, these issues wouldn't arise.

 

These under the surface issues don't really exist, its just the use of substances that trigger changes in your brain, which your brain is not supposed to under-go.

don't think we realize how powerful these drugs & substances can effect and change our brains.

 

By the way i am not dismissing your opinion on the Under-The-Surface issues.

As this can certainly be the case.


Edited by Mr.Nootropic, 07 June 2014 - 12:37 PM.


sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#30 DaneV

  • Guest
  • 98 posts
  • 6
  • Location:nl

Posted 07 June 2014 - 12:55 PM

 

When you drink Alcohol or take drugs and develop issues, it is primarily because of the areas of the brain these drugs are affecting and without the use of these drugs, these issues wouldn't arise.

 

I dont believe this quote to be true in most cases, granted there is no long-term abuse. Take the cannabis -> schizofrenia connection for example. We know cannabis can trigger schizofrenia, but only in people who would have gotten it anyway. To say cannabis causes schizo is thus wrong. I Think the same goes for many cases (i`m not saying yours) who experience HPA dysfunction, which I believe is a major factor in DP, after using a particular substance.

 

But again, every case is different. All I`m trying to say to people who experience similiar problems to take a critical look about how they handled stress before using the blamed substance and not to outrule that their problems are caused by plain old anxiety. 







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: depersonalization, derealization

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users