41 replies to this topic

[game6]

I think the answers on PaleoHacks to a similar question may be worth reading.

http://paleohacks.co...o#axzz1usyyyto4

especially the first one which points to a study that shows that apoe4 carriers' ldl particle size is greater on a high-fat diet compared to a low-fat one.

Interesting, although none of the studies cited are particularly recent. Even though I'm very sympathetic to paleo diets, I think the weight of the evidence currently is against high-fat diets for ApoE4.

[smithx]

A recent mouse study found that restricting feeding to 8 hours a day (ie: a 16 hour fast per day) prevented high cholesterol, diabetes and liver damage from a bad diet.

http://www.eurekaler...i-ssm051512.php

[game6]

I just had my bloodwork done again, and thought I'd share the results, but first a quick review of my journey.

April 2010 – I was exercising regularly, eating low-carb with lots of saturated fat, moderate to heavy alcohol consumption:

Total Cholesterol 243

Total LDL-C 159

Total HDL-C 60

Total VLDL-C 24

Triglyceride 117

Lp(a) 6

IDL 16

Real LDL 137

October 2011 – I had gone about a year without regular exercise, gained about 15lb, was eating low-carb with lots of saturated fat, moderate to heavy alcohol consumption:

Cholesterol 266

Triglyceride 303

HDL Cholesterol 52

VLDL Cholesterol (Calc) 61

LDL Cholesterol (Calc) 153

August 2012 – In May, I discovered I was APOE 3/4 and compound heterozygous for MTHFR. I started intense exercise 4-5 days a week, lost 15lb, switched to a low saturated fat diet (basically eliminated red meat and dairy; I still eat poulty/fish and plant fat), reduced my alcohol a little bit to moderate consumption, and began taking daily flush niacin (now at 1500mg) and 5-MTHF (800mcg). Here are my latest results:

Cholesterol, Total 224 <200

LDL Cholesterol 146 <130

HDL Cholesterol 61 >=40

VLDL Cholesterol 17 <30

Triglycerides 74 <150

Non HDL Chol. (LDL+VLDL) 162 <160

apoB100-calc 102 <109

LDL-R (Real)-C 128 <100

Lp(a) Cholesterol 5.0 <10

IDL Cholesterol 13 <20

Remnant Lipo. (IDL+VLDL3) 23 <30

Probable Metabolic Syndrome No

HDL-2 (Most Protective) 13 >10

HDL-3 (Less Protective) 48 >30

VLDL-3 (Small Remnant) 10 <10

LDL1 Pattern A 21.4

LDL2 Pattern A 50.2

LDL3 Pattern B 46.2

LDL4 Pattern B 10.1

LDL Density Pattern A

Glucose 85 65-99
Homocysteine 10.9 0-15
CRP 0.36 0.00-3.00
Hemoglobin A1c 5.2 4.8-5.6
Vitamin D 68 30-100

In general, I think these are much improved. Should I be happy with this, or should I still be concerned about my LDL levels? My diet has been very clean, so I'm not sure what else to do, other than perhaps further cut down on alcohol.

Edited by game6, 28 August 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[scottknl]

Nice work getting those triglycerides under control. You should try to get your LDL down more by reducing your overall consumption of calories. Even a 10% cut in calories should give you much better LDL and that will give you a chance to get the total cholesterol under 200. Remember that 1/2 the people who have heart attacks had their total cholesterol in the normal range, but none of them had it below 150. So that's where you want to go if you want to avoid CVD.


From http://heartriskonli...terolPrimer.htm

There are few guarantees in life, but having a blood cholesterol level of less than 150 is probably the closest you can get to a guarantee that you will not be troubled with heart disease. One of the more interesting findings from the Framingham Heart Study is that no one in the history of the study has ever had a heart attack whose blood cholesterol was less than 150. If you can get your cholesterol under 150 you don’t even have to concern yourself with the further breakdown of ‘good’ and ‘bad’ cholesterol analysis.”

You should be able to do better on the numbers if you try more on the diet. My own numbers are like this:
Before CR diet --> After CR diet 6 months
Total Cholesterol 223 -->138
Triglycerides 233-->46
LDL 139 --> 73
HDL 23 --> 56

My diet is 15% protein, 34% fats and 51% carbs. I feel good eating nearly vegan with occasional short breaks. I'm doing a carefully planned CRON diet at 1750 kcals per day. I'm not going to let my APOE 3/4 status kill me from heart attack or stroke.

I'm going to go for a new test soon, but for me the numbers have been rock solid since Sept, 2009.

[niner]

I'm not going to let my APOE 3/4 status kill me from heart attack or stroke.

Another thing you aren't likely to get from your ApoE genotype is Alzheimer's. Nice job on the numbers!

[scottknl]

Thanks, Niner! It took me a dozen years to figure it out.

This study from 2004 compares ApoE status with dietary intervention and shows how ApoE3/3 status responds better with dietary intervention compared to ApoE4/3.

http://care.diabetes...6/1276.full.pdf

See Table 2:
 ApoE4_lipids.png   46.58KB   18 downloads
I know that these are not healthy people, but I think we're all trying to avoid metabolic syndrome, so maybe it's relevant.

edit: They are comparing E3/3 with E4/3 groups, not E4/4 with 4/3.

Edited by scottknl, 29 August 2012 - 05:20 AM.

[platypus]

If saturated fat is bad for APOE4, what's the deal with the positive reports of the effects of coconut oil for Alzheimer's?

Edited by platypus, 29 August 2012 - 08:28 AM.

[niner]

If saturated fat is bad for APOE4, what's the deal with the positive reports of the effects of coconut oil for Alzheimer's?

While ApoE4 is a risk factor for Alzheimer's, there are a lot of Alzheimer's cases that are not ApoE4. Typical saturated animal fats may be contra-indicated with ApoE4, but coconut oil is not typical. Its short chain length changes the way it's digested. Whether or not that matters, I don't know. Finally, even though ApoE4 is a risk factor for Alzheimer's, a substance that isn't a good idea when you don't have a disease still might be good if you have the disease.

[niner]

This study from 2004 compares ApoE status with dietary intervention and shows how ApoE3/3 status responds better with dietary intervention compared to ApoE4/3.

You mean 4/3 responds better than 3/3? That seems to be what they're saying:

In the apoE3/3 group, only plasma levels of triglyceride decreased significantly after diet therapy, whereas in the apoE4/3 group, plasma levels of triglyceride, total cholesterol, and LDL cholesterol decreased significantly after diet therapy. The decrease (percentage of change) in total cholesterol (
16.3 vs.
6.6%) and LDL cholesterol (
15.6 vs.
0.7%) after diet therapy was significantly greater in the apoE4/3 group than in the apoE3/3 group.

This is good to know about, since ApoE4 is such a bitch to deal with normally. This says that CR is a good approach for it.

[platypus]

I'm ready to believe that total cholesterol under 150 protects one from heart disease. But at higher cholesterol levels, isn't preventing LDL oxidation still enough? Does APOE4 make oxidation-prevention more tricky?

[forever healthy]

beging APOE3/4 myself i have compiled some research to build a holistic view on the implications of APOE4 for our knowledge base:

 

https://brain.foreve...splay/PUB/APOE4

 

feedback welcome

 

best michael

[Tom Lodge]

I found out a couple of months ago from 23andme test I was E4/E4. Had these issues from high trans fat and poor diet, even going from adolescence:

 

Weight gain very easy from Sugar and Fat

Impaired Cognition/Learning problems from school days and can't learn new skills well.(My Parents aren't idiots)

Stretch Marks on Stomach and Hips

Only ever had Semi Erection, not a full one that points upwards

From 20 onwards had Depression and Aniexty

Fast Pulse/Heart Rate

Overweight

 

So i'm 27 and stuck in a rut. I don't think there is hope with this Gene. I've been taking Lion's Mane the last couple of days, but even that has Alcohol in it which is very bad for APOE 4. I've ordered some Red Palm Oil and Glisodin thinking it could be Atherosclerosis... My other concern is is E4/E4 doesn't get rid of Heavy Metal's but all the other types do...