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My regimen from 10 years of nutrition and longevity research - please critique!

supplements regimens

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#1 Snoopy

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 03:26 PM


zinc gluconate 15mg x 2
magnesium 250mg x 1
selenium yeast 50ug x 2
b12 50 micrograms x 3
vitamin c 250mg x 1 - 2
multivitamin (nothing special 100% RDA A-Z)
L carnoSINE 500mg x 1
pycnogenol 40mg x 4
olive Leaf (18% Oleuropein) 300mg x 3
Green tea extract decaf (stand. to 60% polyphenols) 500mg x 2
rosemary extract 800mg x 2
pomegranatte (40% ellagic acid)/ Pomegrannate juice 250mg x 3
grape seed extract OPC 200mg x 1
reservatrol 500mg x 1
rutin 500mg x 2
astaxanthin 4mg
100% myrosinase-active whole broccoli sprout powder
alpha Lipoic acid 50mg
coenzyme Q10 60mg x 1
sage extract 70mg x 2
ginger root extract 550mg x 1
ginseng 500mg x 2
turmeric fresh
ginkgo biloba extract 250mg x 2
quercetin / Citrus flavonoids 500mg x 2
garlic extract 2000ug allicin
milk thistle extract 175mg
ashwagandha 300mg
spirulina 1 teaspoon
acai 1 tablespoon
maqui 1 tablespoon
flax 2 tbs
soy isolate - genistein dadzein 1 scoop

Edited by Snoopy, 17 May 2012 - 03:27 PM.


#2 malden

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:49 PM

nice regimen!


dont you think the resveratrol and grape seed rip your body of healty estrogens in the long run?

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#3 niner

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:46 AM

Since you have put a lot of time into this regimen, what were your reasons for leaving out fish oil and vitamin k? Are you getting 150 mcg of iodine from the multi? Do you know your 25-OH-D3 level? What about macronutrients; are you paleo?

#4 albedo

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 07:18 AM

Thank you for sharing. I just wonder if you could comment on few things as ALCAR and hormones. Which is you age? Have you considered DHEA after testing DHAE-S? Also, ALA seems a low dose, is there a particular reason for that? Have you supplemented based on tests, deficiencies and particular conditions you wish to treat?

#5 Snoopy

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:39 PM

Thank you for the positive feedback.

I am a 29 years old male from London.

My strategy and reasoning is to counter free radicals from as many different angles as possible with a strong focus on botanical antioxidants. Chain breaking antioxidants like rosemary and root cause inhibitor antioxidants - making sure the key minerals or building blocks for enzymes are covered without fail. More recently I've tried to introduced natural botanicals that upregulate our own enzyme defences like superoxide dismutase by trying out milk thistle...

Hormonally I have never been in better form. Sleep is excellent. Mood is mostly positive. Physical fitness is amazing. Sex drive high pretty much all the time. I'm guessing these are good markers that whatever I am doing is working.

I am still slight apprehensive of isolated/ concentrated substances which may intefer with the any natural equilibreum or signalling inside the cell. So I am treading carefully with stuff like CoQ10. I just dont know enough about it to make a better judgement on dosage. I prefer to protect my existing systems capability of manufacturing it. Ie. Through vigorous understanding of antioxidant protection.

My thinking as you may gather is targeted towards preserving the integrity of the cell membrane to operate at optimum efficiency. Omega 3 I think is extremely important, I buy fresh salmon everyday and take a very small slice raw with almost each meal. I believe this is surest way of getting UNoxidized DHA fat. Pills I am skeptical about due to the exposure of light, heat and oxygen in a big mfr process.
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#6 Snoopy

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:51 PM

@Niner's comment "fish oil and vitamin k? Are you getting 150 mcg of iodine from the multi? Do you know your 25-OH-D3 level? What about macronutrients; are you paleo?"

I eat a fresh range of green leafy vegetables pretty much with every meal - do you think supplementation is needed on top?

There seems to be 100ug in the multi...

What is the 25-OH-D3 level? How is it possible to measure or guestimate this?!

I eat a range of only whole foods - fish, chicken, brightly coloured vegetables - moderate amounts of lentils, oats, buckwheat, spelt - for the manganese and magnesium - since I believe the benefit of the B vitamins in this too outweigh any negatives eg small amounts of gluten compaired to wheat. I think paleo's make a mistake cutting this out.

#7 Snoopy

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 04:01 PM

@albedo

I am not taking any hormones... since my existing one's seem to be firing on all cyclinders anyway!

What dosage of alpha lipoic acid are you on? And when do you take it for optimum effect in your experience?

Thanks again

#8 niner

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 09:00 PM

@Niner's comment "fish oil and vitamin k? Are you getting 150 mcg of iodine from the multi? Do you know your 25-OH-D3 level? What about macronutrients; are you paleo?"

I eat a fresh range of green leafy vegetables pretty much with every meal - do you think supplementation is needed on top?

There seems to be 100ug in the multi...

What is the 25-OH-D3 level? How is it possible to measure or guestimate this?!

I eat a range of only whole foods - fish, chicken, brightly coloured vegetables - moderate amounts of lentils, oats, buckwheat, spelt - for the manganese and magnesium - since I believe the benefit of the B vitamins in this too outweigh any negatives eg small amounts of gluten compaired to wheat. I think paleo's make a mistake cutting this out.


I would supplement some K2. I use both MK7 and MK4. You're probably ok with the iodine in the multi, though the RDA is 150 IIRC, and some say you should get 250. Deficiency abounds, as it does with magnesium and vitamin D. 25-OH-D3 is the form of vitamin D that is commonly measured in blood. You can ask your doctor to prescribe a test, or buy a test on the net. You'd want to see a minimum of 30 ng/ml. Your diet sounds pretty good; I wouldn't worry about a moderate amount of grain "not being paleo". I usually refer to my diet as "paleo-ish", since it's based on paleo ideas but is distinctly non-fanatical. I eat grains all the time. I just don't make them the center of my diet like I once did, so I've cut back substantially, particularly with wheat.

#9 albedo

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 09:50 PM

@albedo

I am not taking any hormones... since my existing one's seem to be firing on all cyclinders anyway!

What dosage of alpha lipoic acid are you on? And when do you take it for optimum effect in your experience?

Thanks again

  • Wrt hormones: I am pretty sure you do not need them but I would do a baseline at your age for a future reference. At 57 now and (hopefully) wiser I would have liked to have done so when younger.
  • Wrt ALA: I am taking since several years 300 mg/d of R-ALA on empty stomach first thing in the morning. This is roughly 1/2 of the dose studied in healthy humans at least in THIS STUDY and considering that the R-form (the biologically active one) corresponds to about 2 x the generic mix of R and S forms, I estimate it enough to the scope (reduce oxidative stress).


#10 Snoopy

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 08:44 PM

Thanks niner

Yes - good to measure these things early - to take advantage of the 'compounding effect'.

About a year ago I stupidly bought into the vegan diet... big mistake. I definitely had some deficiencies judging by the effect on mood, skin, sleeep etc... Since coming off it back on a proper balanced diet - touch wood all these things reversed.

Although I don't get much sun living in London - with the liberal quantities of white fish I consume - hopefully vitamin D will be 'in range'

What is your opinion on spirulina? Seems to be a good 'second multivitamin', even has iodine it. My only concern is the extremely high ratio of iron. I used to take it with every meal - and definitely noticed improvements in complexion. But since learning about iron I cut back. Now I'm on about 1 teaspoon a day. What are your thoughts on dosage?

Thanks a lot

#11 Snoopy

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:06 PM

thanks Albedo

Good idea... I'll add that to the list of 'biomarkers'

With regards to alpha lipoic acid... Are you aware that Denham Harman takes 10mg with each meal. Have you considered 'breaking it up' throughout the day to get more benefit. Give oxidative stress occurs most after a meal. I'm imagining that is why Denham take it with each meal... x3 per day. I will explore upping the dosage... but, I wonder why denham only takes 10mg x 3 per day... Does he know something we don't know....?

#12 Snoopy

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:10 PM

One important point, how much different are the various 'forms' of Lipoic acid for example? I don't see an 'R' in from of it on my brand, the name is 'natures way'. I chose this brand because it's mixed with Rosemary, one of my favorite compounds. Does that explain the difference in dosages?

#13 Snoopy

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:14 PM

Albedo, apologies - Denham's dosage is referring to Coenzyme Q10, not ALA.

#14 albedo

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 12:58 PM

One important point, how much different are the various 'forms' of Lipoic acid for example? I don't see an 'R' in from of it on my brand, the name is 'natures way'. I chose this brand because it's mixed with Rosemary, one of my favorite compounds. Does that explain the difference in dosages?

Maybe you can find useful this document from the Linus Pauling Institute at OSU:
http://lpi.oregonsta...r/othernuts/la/

#15 Snoopy

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 05:28 PM

excellent citation albedo. The list of positives is impressive. My only concern is, being 29 - is it likely to intefer with the bodies endgenous production of it?

I wonder why this brand states take only one tablet daily at 50mg... Seems like they drastically undervalued the dosage...?

#16 Cephalon

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 06:16 PM

Hey Snoopy,

You are taking 30mg Zinc a day? Depending on your diet this is quite alot. You will most likely be fine with 7.5-15mg. You'll need to check your dietary copper intake. Both compete for absorbtion. Having a high Zinc intake may put you in the risk of developing a secondary Copper deficiency. If your dietary copper intake is excessively high, 30mg of Zinc can be reasonable to counteract the high copper intake. Do you use Cron-o-meter or another diet tracking software? This will reveal the truth about your copper - zinc balance.

Good health!

Edited by Cephalon, 21 May 2012 - 06:19 PM.


#17 Snoopy

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:59 PM

Thank you for drawing this to my attention Cephalon... I had a hunch it might be a bit high - but considered the possibility that my high fibre diet may be inhibiting full bioavailability of what I take in (oats, lentils, lots of fresh veg). So I overcompensated a little bit on some of these minerals. Selenium being another example...

My diet does include healthy amounts of fresh olives and fresh mushrooms which as I understand are good sources of copper, however I'm not sure how high my copper intake is. There is no copper in the multi so I am relying solely on dietary sources. I need to swot up on this - as I gather it is both a cofactor for antioxidant enzymes and causes free radicals...?!?! Both at the same time?!? :)

I've recorded from past research a ratio of Zinc:copper 10:1. Does that mean anything to you? I'll follow your advice on the cromometer to reduce some of the uncertainty.

Thanks a lot!

#18 niner

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:22 PM

... I gather it is both a cofactor for antioxidant enzymes and causes free radicals...?!?! Both at the same time?!? :)

I've recorded from past research a ratio of Zinc:copper 10:1.


Yep, both at the same time. It depends on the state of the copper when it's in the body. If it's bound in an enzyme or a transport/storage protein, then it might be part of an antioxidant system, or at least be harmless. If it's floating around in your blood in a free form, then it can get involved in reactions that form radicals. The ratio of 10:1 for zn:cu is commonly quoted. It probably refers to supplemental doses.

#19 Snoopy

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:50 PM

Interesting niner.... Is there any way of exhibiting control over this (forcing more enzymatic and less free form activity)?!

Do you deliberately supplement copper on top of dietary sources? I say 'deliberately' as sometimes multi's have constituents we don't believe in including.. .

#20 Snoopy

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 06:10 PM

although a bit controversial, the dosages below seem to target the root cause of aging - "fraying telomeres"

For anyone that reads this I would not follow the dosages without proper professional advice... staying within the boundaries of what is safe so to speak.

http://www.naturalne..._nutrition.html

#21 Cephalon

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:57 PM

Interesting niner.... Is there any way of exhibiting control over this (forcing more enzymatic and less free form activity)?!

Do you deliberately supplement copper on top of dietary sources? I say 'deliberately' as sometimes multi's have constituents we don't believe in including.. .


Yes one way would for sure be an adequate Zinc intake. Excessivly high Zn intake will most likely result in more pro oxidation. If you have more Zn then your body needs (eg. as a cofactor) it will most likely start oxidating stuff. You should make sure you are on the spot with it - I don't think an antioxidant approach would make sense here e.g. by supplementing plant extracts. Some antioxidants are also oxidants, so this approach is a double sided sword.
Will you post a Cron o meter summary? Exited about that - will help alot.

#22 Cephalon

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:42 PM

although a bit controversial, the dosages below seem to target the root cause of aging - "fraying telomeres"

For anyone that reads this I would not follow the dosages without proper professional advice... staying within the boundaries of what is safe so to speak.

http://www.naturalne..._nutrition.html


I wouldn't suggest following the dosages recommended in this article. The author of this article didn't really read the studies he is citing I guess. The only source mentioning such excess Zinc intakes of up to 75mg is "wellnessresources.com" which does not appear to be a reliable, scientific journal. The other sources are actually studies performed on people who were deficient in Zn: those were given 20mg Zn over a short period of time to demonstrate enzymatic changes - there was not a recommendation.

Source the author is quoting:
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
Dietary zinc restriction and repletion affects DNA integrity in healthy men

"Design: Nine healthy men with reported mean daily zinc intakes >11 mg/d were recruited. Subjects completed 3 consecutive dietary periods: baseline (days 1 to 13; 11 mg Zn/d), zinc depletion (days 14 to 55; 0.6 mg Zn/d for 1 wk and 4 mg Zn/d for 5 wk), and zinc repletion (days 56 to 83; 11 mg Zn/d for 4 wk with 20 mg supplemental Zn for first 7 d).

Conclusions: Changes in dietary zinc intake affected DNA single-strand breaks. Zinc appears to be a critical factor for maintaining DNA integrity in humans."

http://m.ajcn.org/co.../2/321.abstract


All other nutrient intakes recommended in this article (natural news) are also excessive and are far away from being scientifically justified - the author probably sells health supplements, or even worse believes what he says. .. :-)

Edited by Cephalon, 27 May 2012 - 05:43 PM.


#23 Snoopy

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 08:30 PM

Thanks a lot for your enthusiasm Cephalon!

Do you recommend signing up as a gold member to export the report you mentioned? I just received some very insightful results from it!

Below are a few numbers excluding the supplement dosages, so I do appear to be overcompensating. Probably due to all the spinach, olives and mushrooms I put away...

Just to clarify: I take one 15mg zinc on an empty stomach with 250mg magnesium (apparently they are synergistic) first thing in the morning, then repeat at night before bed. If there are symptoms of overdosing I have not noticed any obvious one's yet. My strength is through the roof at the moment. However I think you are right, the below ratio's do need tweaking and more attention...Considering I am at almost 200% RDA of copper through diet alone - could the 30mg Zinc supplement be balancing this out? What ratio should I be aiming for? What is your total intake? I like what you say about hitting the sweet spot - either side of this results in pro oxidant activity, well put. This also knots in well with my latest research.

1.7mg copper
10.2mg zn
15.1mg iron

#24 Snoopy

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 08:31 PM

ps. should we also be factoring in bioavailability?

#25 Snoopy

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:12 PM

Here's a good example of listening to what your own body tells you over the years... My body's feedback over time has resulted in my daily intake of about 50-60 grams of fresh raw salmon daily... I've just found out that the EPA DHA RDA matches up to this, almost bang on... How about that.

#26 Cephalon

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:14 AM

Hey Snoopy,

Cron o meter is a great tool isn't it? I guess the most important step would be to balance things out.
If you feel better on 30mg than I guess it's fine? :) but on the long run you could try to lower both copper and zinc to RDAish levels. I guess if you use the download version you can get summaries out in a excel file but I'm not sure honestly. I also signed out for a trail member ship just to export the reports and post them here on board. Will look for the link where I posted it. There you will see that I'm having my own problems with copper and zinc ;-)

Edit: here it is http://www.longecity...__fromsearch__1

Edited by Cephalon, 29 May 2012 - 12:18 AM.


#27 Snoopy

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:45 AM

I'm hooked on it now - been doing a bit of 'gap analysis' using it and already well on the way to remedy a couple of minor deficiencies ....

Just found an interesting link about purines - uric acid - copper induced ldl oxidation...... now we are getting quite technical...!

I'm beginning to think the best way to research is skimming scientific journals in pubmed to see the hard supporting data. Does anyone have any tips about being careful with interpreting this type of research?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10229669

#28 Cephalon

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:43 PM

I'm hooked on it now - been doing a bit of 'gap analysis' using it and already well on the way to remedy a couple of minor deficiencies ....

Just found an interesting link about purines - uric acid - copper induced ldl oxidation...... now we are getting quite technical...!

I'm beginning to think the best way to research is skimming scientific journals in pubmed to see the hard supporting data. Does anyone have any tips about being careful with interpreting this type of research?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10229669


Hey Snoopy
I'm an absolute noob when it comes to scientific papers - but I can tell you that you'll find contrary results on every topic. Once you found a study pointing out the benefits of substance x you'll most likely have 3 studies claiming just the opposite. Just don"t jump on the train to quick - do more research before ordering substances based on one study - you will save a lot $$

#29 niner

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:33 PM

I'm beginning to think the best way to research is skimming scientific journals in pubmed to see the hard supporting data. Does anyone have any tips about being careful with interpreting this type of research?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10229669


The most important tip is to ignore anything that isn't done in a living mammal. In vitro (test tube) studies are grotesquely misleading. Studies done in worms and flies are usually not relevant to humans. I would want to see data from humans before deciding to take anything that wasn't a very common supplement.

The link you posted is interesting, but it's in vitro, so don't make much of it. There is a lot, lot more going on in a living organism that usually alters or invalidates in vitro data as far as human applicability goes.
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#30 Benedictus

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 09:53 AM

29 years old male from London.
[...]
Hormonally I have never been in better form. Sleep is excellent. Mood is mostly positive. Physical fitness is amazing. Sex drive high pretty much all the time. I'm guessing these are good markers that whatever I am doing is working.

Just FYI:
Your age is 29, man!
When I was 29 there was no regimen to speak of and I felt the exact same about my health. Just a good food diet, regular swimming and no drugs, alcohol or smoking will generally make you feel like you do, so don't make the mistake to 'blame' it on your 'regimen', please. Could save you a shitload of money.

Just sayin'.

I'd say a regimen like yours is important as of age 35-40, thereabouts, and if you have some severe food allergies to live with or some nutrient-related disease.
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