19 replies to this topic

[abelard lindsay]

A couple years back, after I had back surgery and I still had some numbness in my feet afterwards I used to take 3 grams at a time worth of ALCAR largely based on this study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17223507

Delayed acetyl-L-carnitine administration and its effect on sensory neuronal rescue after peripheral nerve injury.

...

Five groups of rats (n=5 per group) underwent unilateral sciatic

nerve

axotomy.

...

Cell loss was eliminated when

ALCAR

was commenced within<or=24 h of axotomy.

..

I found later that lots of ALCAR makes me spontaneously get difficult concept or come up with some flash of creativity when I would normally get stuck on some problem or another. I now take it regularly when I am stuck trying to grok some particularly tricky concept. I don't take ALCAR at these dosages regularly though because it tastes like crap and really kills libido.
Has anyone else had experiences with megadosing ALCAR?

Edited by abelard lindsay, 05 June 2012 - 03:57 AM.

[abelard lindsay]

Found a few old threads that go into this a bit:

http://www.longecity...um/topic/52779

http://www.longecity...um/topic/32072

http://www.longecity...xperience-with-

Seems like mixed results. The Alpha Lipoic Acid vs No Alpha Lipoic Acid with it seems to be a topic of controversy.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 05 June 2012 - 04:47 AM.

[Baten]

I remember people noticing neck pain when dosing high on ALCAR due to excessive choline, so you may want to watch out for that.

[Heraclitean]

I think ALCAR is a pretty benign substance, and you'd have to be almost ridiculously reckless to experience trouble with it. That being said, megadoses of 2g can be useful for depression and fatigue if taken with some source of Choline (At a different time of day).

[zorba990]

2g is mega dosing? Uh o. What would that do to a person who took at least that much for..say..the last 17 years or so...maybe a few breaks here and there.

[nowayout]

I don't take ALCAR at these dosages regularly though because it tastes like crap and really kills libido.

That's unexpected.

Urology. 2004 Apr;63(4):641-6.
Carnitine versus androgen administration in the treatment of sexual dysfunction, depressed mood, and fatigue associated with male aging.

Cavallini G, Caracciolo S, Vitali G, Modenini F, Biagiotti G.

Source

Andrological Operative Unit, Headquarters of Società Italiana di Studi di Medicina della Riproduzione, Bologna, Italy.

Abstract

OBJECTIVES:

To To compare testosterone undecanoate versus propionyl-L-carnitine plus acetyl-L-carnitine and placebo in the treatment of male aging symptoms.
METHODS:

A total of 120 patients were randomized into three groups. The mean patient age was 66 years (range 60 to 74). Group 1 was given testosterone undecanoate 160 mg/day, the second group was given propionyl-L-carnitine 2 g/day plus acetyl-L-carnitine 2 g/day. The third group was given a placebo (starch). Drugs and placebo were given for 6 months. The assessed variables were total prostate-specific antigen, prostate volume, peak systolic velocity, end-diastolic velocity, resistive index of cavernosal penile arteries, nocturnal penile tumescence, total and free testosterone, prolactin, luteinizing hormone, International Index of Erectile Function score, Depression Melancholia Scale score, fatigue scale score, and incidence of side effects. The assessment was performed at intervals before, during, and after therapy.
RESULTS:

Testosterone and carnitines significantly improved the peak systolic velocity, end-diastolic velocity, resistive index, nocturnal penile tumescence, International Index of Erectile Function score, Depression Melancholia Scale score, and fatigue scale score. Carnitines proved significantly more active than testosterone in improving nocturnal penile tumescence and International Index of Erectile Function score. Testosterone significantly increased the prostate volume and free and total testosterone levels and significantly lowered serum luteinizing hormone; carnitines did not. No drug significantly modified prostate-specific antigen or prolactin. Carnitines and testosterone proved effective for as long as they were administered, with suspension provoking a reversal to baseline values. Only the group 1 prostate volume proved significantly greater than baseline 6 months after testosterone suspension. Placebo administration proved ineffective. Negligible side effects emerged.
CONCLUSIONS:

Testosterone and, especially, carnitines proved to be active drugs for the therapy of symptoms associated with male aging.

Urology. 2005 Nov;66(5):1080-5.
Acetyl-L-carnitine plus propionyl-L-carnitine improve efficacy of sildenafil in treatment of erectile dysfunction after bilateral nerve-sparing radical retropubic prostatectomy.

Cavallini G, Modenini F, Vitali G, Koverech A.

Source

Operative Unit of Andrology, Società Italiana di Medicina della Riproduzione, Bologna, Italy. giorgiocavallini@libero.it

Abstract

OBJECTIVES:

To determine whether propionyl-L-carnitine (PLC) plus acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC) improves the effectiveness of sildenafil in restoring sexual potency after bilateral nerve-sparing radical retropubic prostatectomy.
METHODS:

We analyzed the data from 96 patients who had undergone bilateral nerve-sparing radical retropubic prostatectomy: 33 were given placebo (group 1), 32 used PLC 2 g/day plus ALC 2 g/day plus sildenafil 100 mg when needed (group 2), and 35 used sildenafil alone (group 3). The studied variables were sexual function (assessed through sexual behavior interviews and the International Index of Erectile Function), peak systolic velocity and end-diastolic velocity of cavernosal arteries (assayed by dynamic echo-color Doppler), the percentage of patients able to achieve a positive intracavernous injection test, and side effects.
RESULTS:

Placebo proved ineffective and sildenafil and sildenafil plus ALC and PLC proved effective. The International Index of Erectile Function-15 scores of the group 2 patients [who also took carnitines] were significantly greater than those of group 3 in the following domains: erectile function, sexual intercourse satisfaction, orgasm, and general sexual well-being. The drugs did not significantly modify the score in the sexual desire domain or in the peak systolic velocity or end-diastolic velocity of the cavernosal arteries. Sexual behavior interviews revealed that 2 of 29 in group 1, 28 of 32 in group 2, and 20 of 39 in group 3 attained satisfactory sexual intercourse (P <0.01). Only group 2 had a significantly increased percentage of patients with a positive intracavernous injection test after therapy (36.4% versus 63.6%; P <0.01). ALC plus PLC did not significantly improve the side effects of sildenafil.
CONCLUSIONS:

PLC and ALC proved to be safe and reliable in improving the efficacy of sildenafil in restoring sexual potency after bilateral nerve-sparing radical retropubic prostatectomy.

[health_nutty]

2g is mega dosing? Uh o. What would that do to a person who took at least that much for..say..the last 17 years or so...maybe a few breaks here and there.

Likely nothing but good. It is just the high end of the normal range imho.

[sparkk51]

I'm sure I read somewhere that ALCAR at high doses numbs acetylcholine receptors. I could be wrong of course.

Edited by sparkk51, 06 June 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[zorba990]

I'm sure I read somewhere that ALCAR at high doses numbs acetylcholine receptors. I could be wrong of course.

High doses being what? I've noticed no such effect even up to 4g a day (which is probably excessive and negatively effects deep sleep for me).

[1thoughtMaze1]

A couple years back, after I had back surgery and I still had some numbness in my feet afterwards I used to take 3 grams at a time worth of ALCAR largely based on this study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17223507

Delayed acetyl-L-carnitine administration and its effect on sensory neuronal rescue after peripheral nerve injury.

...

Five groups of rats (n=5 per group) underwent unilateral sciatic

nerve

axotomy.

...

Cell loss was eliminated when

ALCAR

was commenced within<or=24 h of axotomy.

..

I found later that lots of ALCAR makes me spontaneously get difficult concept or come up with some flash of creativity when I would normally get stuck on some problem or another. I now take it regularly when I am stuck trying to grok some particularly tricky concept. I don't take ALCAR at these dosages regularly though because it tastes like crap and really kills libido.
Has anyone else had experiences with megadosing ALCAR?

Are you still taking ALCAR? With CILTEP?

[Turnbuckle]

I remember people noticing neck pain when dosing high on ALCAR due to excessive choline, so you may want to watch out for that.

ALCAR isn't a source of choline so that shouldn't be a problem unless you're taking it with a supplement that is. I've taken a gram or more of ALCAR with ALA for years with no problem. It's difficult to say that it's had any effects because I began taking it regularly with PQQ and the effects of that were dramatic. And now the effects of C60 are even more dramatic, but that may be partly due to these other supplements, as it's easy to see they might be working synergistically on the mitochondria.

Edit: This paper postulates that carnitine can raise the levels of acetylcholine in the brain, so I might be wrong about that--

The presence of a carnitine carrier in the inner mitochondrial membrane has been proven and the protein has been purified. It is postulated that its major role in adult brain would be translocation of acetyl moieties from mitochondria into the cytoplasm for acetylcholine synthesis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8768311

Edited by Turnbuckle, 18 July 2012 - 10:54 AM.

[X_Danny_X]

I remember people noticing neck pain when dosing high on ALCAR due to excessive choline, so you may want to watch out for that.

ALCAR isn't a source of choline so that shouldn't be a problem unless you're taking it with a supplement that is. I've taken a gram or more of ALCAR with ALA for years with no problem. It's difficult to say that it's had any effects because I began taking it regularly with PQQ and the effects of that were dramatic. And now the effects of C60 are even more dramatic, but that may be partly due to these other supplements, as it's easy to see they might be working synergistically on the mitochondria.

Edit: This paper postulates that carnitine can raise the levels of acetylcholine in the brain, so I might be wrong about that--

The presence of a carnitine carrier in the inner mitochondrial membrane has been proven and the protein has been purified. It is postulated that its major role in adult brain would be translocation of acetyl moieties from mitochondria into the cytoplasm for acetylcholine synthesis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8768311

Can you explain please on what do you mean by dramatic? You mention that ALCAR did this when taking it with PQQ and C60. Did it increase intelligence, memory, or made you last longer in the brain department to continue ongoing?

Last time I check C60 makes you live longer, not proven yet but that is what people are taking it for.

[Turnbuckle]

I remember people noticing neck pain when dosing high on ALCAR due to excessive choline, so you may want to watch out for that.

ALCAR isn't a source of choline so that shouldn't be a problem unless you're taking it with a supplement that is. I've taken a gram or more of ALCAR with ALA for years with no problem. It's difficult to say that it's had any effects because I began taking it regularly with PQQ and the effects of that were dramatic. And now the effects of C60 are even more dramatic, but that may be partly due to these other supplements, as it's easy to see they might be working synergistically on the mitochondria.

Edit: This paper postulates that carnitine can raise the levels of acetylcholine in the brain, so I might be wrong about that--

The presence of a carnitine carrier in the inner mitochondrial membrane has been proven and the protein has been purified. It is postulated that its major role in adult brain would be translocation of acetyl moieties from mitochondria into the cytoplasm for acetylcholine synthesis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8768311

Can you explain please on what do you mean by dramatic? You mention that ALCAR did this when taking it with PQQ and C60. Did it increase intelligence, memory, or made you last longer in the brain department to continue ongoing?

Last time I check C60 makes you live longer, not proven yet but that is what people are taking it for.

PQQ gave me a dramatic boost to mental and physical energy within a few days. I then upped the ALCAR, ALA and CoQ10, which I was already taking, so I can't say if they were any extra help, though the research was suggestive enough to keep me taking them. Even so, I still had a problem with aerobic exercise, especially running, due to an unfortunate encounter with statins that ruined my stamina/oxygen utilization. At the age of 60 I couldn't run more than a hundred yards without gasping for breath. Long slow distance training didn't work, nothing worked until I tried C60, and within a few hours that problem was overcome. Since then I've seen other effects, such as hair regrowth, better skin, better joint flexibility, a tremendous improvement in alcohol tolerance, and a more youthful appearance. I'm also not dead, so that's good too.

PQQ, ALCAR, ALA and CoQ10 I take every day, but the C60 (in olive oil) I took for ten days beginning in April of this year and a few times since. The effects seem to be long-lasting or the C60 is very slow to be eliminated, or both.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 18 July 2012 - 01:54 PM.

[X_Danny_X]

I see, it seems the people that are getting a good effect of PQQ and CoQ10 for mental and especially energy boost are in their elder years. The majority of folks I talked too here didnt get any effect from PQQ, CoQ10, etc. me included.

I still take ALCAR for other reasons. It worked great with Lion's Mane for me, well my brain felt swollen and heavier. ALCAR does effect the NGF along with Lion's Mane.

Edited by X_Danny_X, 18 July 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

I see, it seems the people that are getting a good effect of PQQ and CoQ10 for mental and especially energy boost are in their elder years. The majority of folks I talked too here didnt get any effect from PQQ, CoQ10, etc. me included.

I think that is exactly right. You will be less likely to see any effect if there is no dysfunction to begin with.

I still take ALCAR for other reasons. It worked great with Lion's Mane for me, well my brain felt swollen and heavier.

That's a hell of an advertisement!

[medievil]

well my brain felt swollen and heavier.

I got this too after a night of heavy drinking, far more effective then lions mane.

[X_Danny_X]

Lions Mane I know you don't need it as your body can do the samething while doing some heavy studying. However, it might be some little short cut sometimes to help get your head started. However, the prices for Lion Mane always backs me away from buying it.

[Pirate]

I've read, only anecdotally, that 1.5 g of Alcar after 4 weeks increases motor skills - can anyone using Alcar above 1.5g a day attest to this?

Should Alcar be taken 1.5 once a day, or broken up into segments throughout the day?

[SummerUser]

I've read, only anecdotally, that 1.5 g of Alcar after 4 weeks increases motor skills - can anyone using Alcar above 1.5g a day attest to this?

Should Alcar be taken 1.5 once a day, or broken up into segments throughout the day?

It never did happen to me, but I've used only 150g of this stuff. Piracetam or presumably Alpha GPC is a better bet.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as science goes you get increased motor skills through ACh stimulation/activation.
All three of them can help with that, although you need a good diet or some supplementary choline for piracetam (alcar, alpha gpc hehe).
Piracetam increased my motor skills quite a bit, especially while I was on it. I was training at that time and had quite a diet too. Now I have 30-40% of that advancement left, but it's quite a difference for me from my "previous baseline". I'm generally a clumsy person, but while I was on the stuff I was on top (you think, body does). I never really got any memory or visual benefits that people talk about, but body mind connection was insane. From what I read about Alpha GPC, it could be a good alternative to piracetam. I'll try alcar & alpha gpc as my next PWO.

Edited by SummerUser, 15 November 2012 - 05:55 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

I'm back to dig up this old thread because I threw out my back recently and started having nerve related tingling in my legs again. I read my old notes on how I fixed my sciatic nerve problems previously and the megadosing of ALCAR came back up.  I started taking 3 grams a day again. 

 

Anyway, I've been having epiphanies again.  Over the last few days since I started on this, I will suddenly gain some new insight into some life issue or some very big picture understanding of something intellectual I'm reading.  It's not so much a general intelligence enhancer, it's more that it improves the brain's background processing.