35 replies to this topic

[khemix]

Morning
Creatine MP w/ Dextrose - 5g = Improves spatial memory
Uridine - 300mg = Implicated in neuron repair
ALCAR – 0.5-1g = Enhances NGF and ACh
Glutamic Acid - 500mg = Precursor to Glutamate and GABA, aids in absorption
Vitamin B50 complex = cofactor to many cognitive processes
Lions Mane - 500mg = Increases NGF

Breakfast
Adderall XR - 10mg = mental energy and alertness, dopamine elongates neurons
Lexapro – 2.5mg = SSRI, anxiolytic, serotonin promotes neurogenesis
Omega-3 - 1g = Builds brain
Pregnelone - 50mg = Increases neurogenesis
Jatamansi - 500mg = promotes neural growth
ALPHA GPC 300mg = precursor to ACh
L-Theanine - 100mg = Increases BDNF and upregulates GABA receptors
ALA - 100mg = antioxidant
Vitamin C - 500mg = antioxidant
Artichoke - ~600mg = cAMP and memory
Zinc – 25mg = energy
Magnesium Citrate - 120mg = anxiolytic
+
Good Breakfast (oatmeal, complex carbs, berries)
+
30min of Dual-n-back = improves working memory
30min of Mozart Effect = improves spatial memory + relaxation
10min Meditation = improves focus

Noon
TMG – 1000mg = methylator
CDP Choline – 300mg = Ach precursor
Artichoke - ~600mg = cAMP and memory
Magnesium Citrate - 120mg = anxiolytic
Swiss Naturals Memory (contains 100mg Bacopa, 100mg Canadian ginseng, 60mg Ginko)
Inositol – 1000mg = anxiolytic
+
30min of brain training with Lumosity
30min of Mozart Effect
30min Cardio exercise

Night
Glycine - ~3g = co-agonist of NDMA, induces sleep
Pantothenic acid - 1000mg = cofactor in Ach, acne reduction
Omega-3-6-9 ~0.2g = Builds brain + antioxidant
Phosphatidylserine - 100mg = builds receptors
Guanfacine – 1mg = improves working memory, reduces peripheral stimulation of Adderall, anxiolytic
Ashwagandha = antioxidant + increases NGF, adaptogen
Lithium Orotate 5mg = Increases BDNF + neurogenesis


=======================================================================================================

The aim of this stack is to boost IQ. The main players are Adderall, Creatine, ALCAR, Lions Mane, the omegas, and the cholinergics. It is hoped that doing this for 30 days non-stop will lead to permanent improvement in cognitive functioning (however modest) by providing my brain with all the necessary materials to rebuild and form neural networks after hours of brain training via dual-n-back and other minigames. I will measure my progress with http://www.cambridgebrainsciences.com where most of my scores have plateaued and so improvements can only be attributed to nootropic effects. I will also post a before and after result estimate for my IQ as measured by numerous self-administered tests. I will only take each test on the first day, and once again on the last day, hoping that two attempts at the same test do not constitute sufficient practice to raise my score artificially.

Let me know if you have any suggestions or corrections.

Thanks.

[capob]

Why aren't you including any of the racetams?

[khemix]

Racetams are stimulants I don't tolerate very well. I have concluded that they impair my cognition while giving a slight increase in agility. I got the best stimulant in their place, Adderall. I have considered using 800mg piracetam before sleeping to upregulate my ACh receptors. I just don't want it to increase tolerance to Adderall.

[sparkk51]

I just don't want it to increase tolerance to Adderall.

I don't think piracetam produces cross-tolerance with amphetamines. In fact, I would assume, through the manner of which you would administer it, that adding the piracetam may increase Adderall's effects due to dopamine receptor upregulation.

Edited by sparkk51, 18 June 2012 - 02:53 AM.

[khemix]

I just don't want it to increase tolerance to Adderall.

I don't think piracetam produces cross-tolerance with amphetamines. In fact, I would assume, through the manner of which you would administer it, that adding the piracetam may increase Adderall's effects due to dopamine-upregulation.

Piracetam enhances NDMA / AMPA (whichever) which is implicated in tolerance. This is why some people take memantine to prolong the effectiveness of stimulants. Memantine works in the opposite direction of piracetam.

[capob]

When I tried racetams a two months ago, I had mixed results. I tried four of them (piracetam, pramiracetam, oxiracetam, and aniracetam). I found that: they seem to have difference effects (not just a matter of degree); and two, what is taken with them can counteract or promote the postiive effects. For instance, I had been taking MCT oil with aniracetam and found that the copious amount of MCT oil was actually making me tired (an effect I originally attributed to the aniracetam). So, if your testing with racetams was not exhaustive, I suggest you do more testing with them.

Some other things you might consider (from my current routine):

hydergine
huperzine
Deprenyl
Pyritinol
Picamilion

I've heard good things about Sulbutiamine, but It only makes me tired when I take it.

Edited by capob, 18 June 2012 - 03:00 AM.

[khemix]

Thank you for the suggestions, I may sporadically throw in pyritinol and sulbatiamine as I have a bottle of each lying around. I don't think I need hydergine or deprenyl as they are MAOIs and I already have adderall. Huperzine I don't want either, I believe I have enough cholinergics. And Picamilion I don't need as I have Clonazepam if need be. You have to bear in mind that I have access to much stronger pharmaceutical agents

I have been using racetams for 2 years. My opinion is that they suck. All of them except perhaps Ani.

Edited by khemix, 18 June 2012 - 03:09 AM.

[sparkk51]

khemix, have you ever taken, or considered taking, Memantine? What are your thoughts on how it affects cognition and learning?

[Winten]

I hope you increase your IQ to realize that you killing yourself with so much drugs.

[khemix]

khemix, have you ever taken, or considered taking, Memantine? What are your thoughts on how it affects cognition and learning?

Memantine is an NDMA antagonist, so it has negative effects on memory and learning. I would not use it as it's the opposite of what one would call a nootropic. It's use is only warranted if you have a hyper-glutamic system already as in the case of Alzheimers.

[Raza]

Looks like a well thought out stack. Let us know how your scores go.

L-Theanine - 100mg = Increases BDNF and upregulates GABA receptors

Does it? D'you have a source on this?

[khemix]

Looks like a well thought out stack. Let us know how your scores go.

L-Theanine - 100mg = Increases BDNF and upregulates GABA receptors

Does it? D'you have a source on this?

Hmm, I made a typo and meant to say upregulates the PRODUCTION of GABA. Thank you for catching that.

Source:

Theanine in the great Anxiety thread: http://www.longecity...ly-effectively/
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19865069

[sparkk51]

khemix, have you ever taken, or considered taking, Memantine? What are your thoughts on how it affects cognition and learning?

Memantine is an NDMA antagonist, so it has negative effects on memory and learning. I would not use it as it's the opposite of what one would call a nootropic. It's use is only warranted if you have a hyper-glutamic system already as in the case of Alzheimers.

I apologize for starting this conversation in your thread, please tell me if you would like me to pm you instead if I have further questions.

Are you sure that Memantine would be more detrimental to cognition and learning than the opposite? I've read before in this forum that it lowers certain NMDA receptors but not all. In wikipedia, it's stated to be a voltage-dependent NMDA receptor antagonist. Considering this don't you think that memantine could improve cognition by preventing overly stimulated neurons and sparing the rest?

[khemix]

khemix, have you ever taken, or considered taking, Memantine? What are your thoughts on how it affects cognition and learning?

Memantine is an NDMA antagonist, so it has negative effects on memory and learning. I would not use it as it's the opposite of what one would call a nootropic. It's use is only warranted if you have a hyper-glutamic system already as in the case of Alzheimers.

I apologize for starting this conversation in your thread, please tell me if you would like me to pm you instead if I have further questions.

Are you sure that Memantine would be more detrimental to cognition and learning than the opposite? I've read before in this forum that it lowers certain NMDA receptors but not all. In wikipedia, it's stated to be a voltage-dependent NMDA receptor antagonist. Considering this don't you think that memantine could improve cognition by preventing overly stimulated neurons and sparing the rest?

It's quite alright, we can resume the conversation here.

I believe Memantine would negatively affect long term memory because it antagonizes NMDA which is crucial in LTR (see http://thebrain.mcgi...i_07_m_tra.html). People often report really bad memory when titrating the doses and while this lessens over time I don't think it ever goes away. Actually I think the argument is that because you're blocking so much NMDA your body is forced to create new synapses and compensate which results in upregulation. This is certainly how Mg+ works, and studies do show that magnesium improves cognition (most recently the MgT variety). Another thing I dislike about memantine is that it antagonizes nicotinic which are crucial to memory.

Now I don't think memantine is selective for only certain receptors, but what makes it interesting is that it is voltage dependent. This means it serves only to antagonize abornomal glutamate activity while (in theory) not affecting normal transmission. In any case, my current regime exists to form new synapses and I can't afford holding out some NDMA receptors which serve this function. It's for this reason people claim memantine is good for preventing tolerance by reducting "synaptic memory" which I can't spare. Down the road I would love to try memantine because I do think I have excess glutamic activity. Actually I think I would even stack it with a racetam. That way I'd have primed NMDA receptors that aren't oiver firing. For now, Mg will have to suffice.

[ranza]

Update on IQ scores?

[FutureOrtho]

Any updates? Interested to hear about the results

[khemix]

I will only know if my IQ improved on day 30 as that is when I take an IQ test again.

So far, it's been a week. I noticed some subjective cognitive effects, mostly thanks to dual-n-backing, in the first two days. I think I know what is meant by "working memory" and I understand how it is distict from "short term memory". I was thinking dual-n-back would improve the latter and give me a larger mental chalk board. This is not the case at all, what happens is my "processing speed" improves. I keep the space I have but thoughts are now faster and I make connections faster. It's like being on a low dose racetam but none of the negatives of being stimulated. For example, when I was reading articles I could just make connections faster... I didn't need time to reflect and ponder. During those two days I went from 1-back to 3-back and today remain at n=3 with roughly 60+%. I didn't feel this on day 3 however but that may just be because I am used to it now. Anyway this is subjective but what data I do have suggests my spatial reasoning has improved. It takes less effort to do exercises like spatial span etc, although score hasn't really improved but I more consistantly reach my max. Also, when on the tread mill time just feels like it's going a little slower. I've been going to the gym for over a year and I don't ever remember the timer being that slow.

From day 4 to 5 I was getting slightly hypomanic so I am considering removing the Adderall which I think is the culprit. I eventually had a headache in the frontal lobe area so I took the weekend off (days 6 and 7) the supps and exercises. The best thing in the stack is definately the dual-n-back. I will resume monday and update again next week.

Edited by khemix, 24 June 2012 - 11:29 PM.

[khemix]

Week 2 and not much has changed but I removed the adderall. n-backing at 3 with better results.

My brain needs a rest and my head is hurting. Taking the weekend off and will resume next monday.

[khemix]

Just a small update. I was at a party yesterday (Canada's Day) and noticed a definate improvement in verbal fuency. By this I mean my memory of events was better, my choice of words and vocabulary stronger, and I could better anticipate where a speaker was going with a topic. I know this is different because I'm not the person to use words like "enervate", "gratuitous", and "penury" in person.

[khemix]

Week 3 and I'm 4-backing with ease. I don't know if I'm just getting better at the specific task or if my working memory is indeed improving but it requires less effort to memorize those running sequences. I'll be throwing in Straterra in place of the Adderall to get dopamine specifically in the prefronal region. Head is hurting some and I am beggining to loathe the brain exercises so I'll take the weekend off. I'm roughly in the 90th percentiles in the lumosity games. Oh and I take 800mg piracetam before bed time and I think it is helping with mental agility. I am thinking of protracting this to 6 weeks due to all the minor changes. I will take the IQ test again at the end of July.

[ranza]

I'd say that doing 4-backing with ease is quite an achievement! If you can do 3-back and 4-back on 100% than I'd say that it's definitely significant.

[khemix]

Weel 4 has been completed. I am through with 4-backing and will begin 5-backing next week. The general trend is that I am great for the first four days, but feel dead by the fifth (headache around frontal lobe area). This is because I am doing a lot of mental training. I've put Straterra 25mg in place of the Adderall and Cipralex because it is a NE and 5-HT transport blocker, meaning I'm getting the benefit of DA+NE in the frontal lobe and the 5-HT of the SSRI. It is also an NDMA antagonist for what it's worth. Over all I find it's a much cleaner increase in focus. Since I get the NE, I don't need guanfacine either.

I am removing the Zinc, it is the culprit in my hypomanic episodes and I think it increases my hormones too much to the point that I become a little dumber. The same is true of Ashwagandha as I get very aggressive in the mornings. I am adding CoQ10 100mg (bioavailable form) in the hopes of having even more energy. And a reminder that I am takng 800mg piracetam at night to upregulate ACh receptors.

I don't know how typical my rate of improvement on n-back is but I will keep going. Subjectively I believe my reading comprehension is better and I find that I can read for longer periods of time with more focus. Whether this is the result of an improved working memory or the substances I don't yet know. Will update again next week and post final results at the end of the month.

[rmo]

thanks for removing the adderal, that shits not good for you man.

[khemix]

I'm sorry, I have exams coming up. I thought it better to post my results at the end of August after being substance free to see if the changes are permanent.

So far, my digit span has increased to 8 from 6 to 7. This is no small feat, but its not consistant - its my new max that I hardly ever reach. Again... is this from training or cognition? My spatial scores are very high too. Not much increase, but I rarely score low. I'm still on 5-back, slowly getting higher and higher scores. Only the IQ test will tell.

[ranza]

Great, thanks for the update. Perhaps try some tests at cambridgebrainsciences.com and share the average/max results here. Please note the individual results of each test, because their summing algorithm is a bit messed up.

[Purpose]

Keen to hear update

[ScientiaPotentiaEst]

Any updates?

[brainmaker]

are there any updates?

[Psionic]

processing speed is also associated with intelligence, so trying to do speed n back can be useful (even trying to decrease time intervals between stimuli)..
btw how is it going with creatine, do you think it have any effect?

[khemix]

Subjective: Yes, I believe I have permanently improved some form of mental functioning. It's like I've updated my processor. No, I don't think quicker or with less effort, but magically I seem to make better connections. It's like in the background my brain is working a little better. For instance, when I solve physics problems I have a new found intuition I don't believe I have ever had before in my life. Two examples if you know the subject: In EM, all those fancy integral definitions didn't make sense and I only knew them in isolation... now I view the field as "the force" and the potential as the "energy" ; in essence that is what they are except they per unit charge, and link the whole subject to mechanics. Look at this: http://upload.wikime...ba30dc1698b.png

Before, it was in isolation - a formula I had commited to memory. Now I see it as being equivalent to a line integral for force, but with force = field and potential = energy. This seemingly simple connection had never occured to me before. Take quantum mechanics, you have a superposition of states and only the eigenvalue of ONE state is your measure... I now understand what is meant by the wavefunction collpasing. When working with equations I tend to think hmm... this is is linear therefore 3 types of solutions are possible. This sort of generalized thinking and making cross-subject connections is I think the biggest gain. It would be odd that this be coincidence seeing as it just so happened when I started the stack. I attribute just about all the gains to the brain games, especially dual n back. In just a week of doing it I felt these changes becoming apparent.

Unfortunately there were no gains in focus or attention - at least nothing that persisted once I went off of them. This was a little dissapointing given that I heard positive results in this regard. The magnesium has neutralized the anxiety quite a bit and my mind is generally quieter as a result. Guanfacine also helped with this as well as with helping me control impulses and giving me time to think before acting. Unfotunately guan is very sedating and I don't know if I will continue taking it.

This whole report was very scattered and I do apologize for haphazardly introducting and removing substances. I think the most effective ones in the mix were the Creatine, the cholinergics, omega-3, and lion's mane. When I put too many things like ALCAR and uridine I got too manicky and speedy. For memory, preg and glutamic acid gave instanct results, but nothing long term. Piracetam made reflexes quicker but that has gone since going off it. I plan on making another report where I am more consistant and more scientific. I'll post objective results soon too, but they were not too impressive, but there was small positive impact on most measures. To reiterate, dual n back was the most important part of the stack. I'm at n=5 and have been stuck there since, but I haven't had as much time to put into it. I spend 10min on most days though and will increase it when I have more free time, it is a VERY exhausting game.