3 replies to this topic

[Debaser]

I did quite a bit of research on the Internet before getting into nootropics, in particular reading of these forums. A lot of people said they got headaches and needed a choline supplement. My question is how bad are these headaches?

I will tell you my story as briefly as I can.

I received my first nootropics a few days ago. I ordered oxiracetam and choline bitartrate. The first day was great. I took about 800-1000mg in one dose and got a discernible change in cognition, visual acuity and brightness of colours, sounds and smells; I was thinking faster, reacting faster and my thoughts were flowing easier. I also felt more stimulated, kind of like amphetamine or strong coffee but without being jittery. I had the very slight feeling of aches in my head that would appear for a few seconds but weren't very painful.

The next day I took the same amount of oxiracetam, but didn't really feel the same absolute difference as the first time. I figured maybe my brain was used to it already. About 3 hours later I decided to take the choline supplement. Almost immediately I felt the same feelings as yesterday, the brighter colours, louder sounds and clearer mind and greater ability to focus, and slightly speedy. I figured maybe I used up all my body's choline the day before, so today I needed more.

I redosed again about 6 hours later with the same dose, because I'd read that's what most people do with oxiracetam (usually 2x800mg?). This time I was getting mild headaches and then about 3 hours later my head was starting to hurt quite a lot. By the time I went to bed I found I was extremely agitated/stimulated, sounds were extremely loud and I could not fall asleep. My head had a dull ache and whenever I went to the toilet (i.e. whenever I stood up) my head hurt so much. It hurt all over the right side of my head, inside my head, outside my head, back of my head, top of my head, and down my neck. It felt like spasms because it would come on in waves. It was hurting so much that I would almost collapse when the pain came.

This worried me a lot. How can anything that makes your head hurt this much be good for your brain?

I did not sleep well at all last night. I had very vivid dreams and nightmares and was in and out of consciousness a lot. I found every little noise disturbed me and my head would not stop hurting. This morning my head still hurt and when I got out of bed I got the same excruciating pain in my head. It is some of the worst pain I've ever experienced.

Eventually after some breakfast (which included milk) the pain has gone down a bit, but I still have a dull ache and a feeling of pressure in my head. I know milk is a choline source so perhaps I do need more choline. But I have decided not to take anything to day. I will give my head a rest, so I won't take oxiracetam or the choline bitartrate.

When I do try them again I think I will reduce the dosage of oxiracetam.

Thanks if anyone actually read all of that. For those who skipped to the end I am very interested in other people's headache experiences when taking racetams. Also any advice would be welcome.

[Debaser]

What have I done to my brain?

I was someone who basically did not get headaches. I can honestly say I've pretty much never had a headache in my life. What if I continue to get headaches from now on just because I took a stupid chemical that anecdotal reports on the Internet said was good for my brain. This was not worth it at all.

My head hurt all of yesterday. I slept better today, but I woke up with a feeling of pressure in my head still that never goes away, and as soon as I sat up I got the extremely painful throbbing pains all over the right side of my head again. It was so bad that I had to lie down again immediately. I was in absolute agony. I got these pains whenever I sat up, stood up, moved my head slightly, walk, etc. They eventually lessened but I still have had a headache for 2 days now, and I still get the extremely painful throbbing in a pattern that comes on in waves.

Rather than enabling me to work harder, this has totally disabled me. I cannot do anything. My head hurts and I feel terrible. I just want to lie down. I don't know what to do. Would it help to take more of something, or should I avoid them? Surely choline is safe and shouldn't CAUSE headaches, but I just don't know any more.

I'm questioning what I was looking for when I started nootropics now. I suppose I felt I wanted to be more intelligent and have a better memory and be more loquacious. But you know what? I had a perfectly functioning brain and was reasonably intelligent before and I never got headaches!

Are everyone's racetam headaches this debilitating?

[jcxz]

I had a similar experience. The head ache was quite bad and it was subsiding very slowly, acute phase pass relatively quickly, about 3-5 days, then it is just a pain that you stop to feel in about 3-4 weeks. Very long time to recover.

[Debaser]

Thanks for the reply. For me the headaches continued for 5-7 days.

I think (though my only evidence is anecdotal) that it was actually the choline bitartrate that was the problem. I originally took it because it was generally recommended to, and then I continued taking it because everyone said when you get headaches it's because you don't have enough choline.

I think it was just causing and perpetuating my headaches from too much acetylcholine in my brain. I get a lot of choline in my diet already so I don't think I was deficient.

I took some more oxiracetam without a choline source (apart from food) and the headache went away. I continued taking it without choline and no more headaches.

I'm taking noopept now without a choline source and no headaches.


Of course, I cannot argue anything scientific here, so bear that in mind. But I find the general advice of taking racetams with a choline source to be misleading. The mistake I made was taking a large amount of choline bitartrate on the 2nd day. I read that if you take a big enough dose of it, it will cross the blood-brain barrier whether you need it or not, so then I would have had too much acetylcholine in my brain which I've read causes headaches.

It could all be coincidence, but I'm happy now not taking any choline source and not getting headaches!

Edited by Debaser, 20 July 2012 - 07:07 PM.