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"Confidence is key" What creates and sustains confidence?

confidence dopamine cocaine reward mental success

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#31 Blink

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 01:16 PM

"your brain wants proof, not promises"

mindfulness meditation is great for learning to take your thoughts less seriously and become internally validated (core confidence) instead of looking externally for reasons to feel good (situational confidence).

see rsdnation.com :)


This is important. To see the thoughts for what they are - just thoughts. You are not a thought, and the person you think you are does not exist - it's just a concept made out of memories and fantasies.

I spent a lot of time and energy trying to improve and change myself. I wasn't really happy with with myself. However the biggest change occurred with the loss of everything I thought I was - ego death during a trip on ayahuasca.

I realized that the core of who I am can't be found in the personality or in the thoughts. I am not any of these temporary phenomena; I am actually the awareness of everything. Thoughts and emotions are just like passing clouds - I'm not a cloud but the changeless sky.

This realization brings peace to the mind. I don't have perfect confidence in my social skills or in my intellect, but I have absolute confidence in who I am.
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#32 Raptor87

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 05:17 PM

Psychopaths are known for their grandiosity and confidence. They have abnormal target areas in the brain. Their amygdala seems to target less reactions eg when someone is challenging them. They don´t seem to react except with cold calculated manipulation. Of course this can disarm anyone who has a consciousness. Another abnormality is that their corpus callossum is thinner and longer with more neural connections passing through their left and right brain, a reason for them being so verbally fluent. They also have 4 times more dopamine receptors in the brain. Could explain why they are so overfocused while not reacting to danger. The amygdala works along with the hippocampus to form new memories related to fight or flight. A dysfunction in their wiringsystem could possibly make them forget bad memories and also, while not being dragged down by selfdefeating thoughts! Another consequence is that it would make them prone to attack on a continuous basis to reach their goals while not be affected by defeat on a long term basis. The warriorgene (MAO) could also be a reason for their constant thrill- seeking.

Of course a criminal psychopath is a unsuccessful one and they are often incarcerated for pointless criminal acts! Acts one could only consider as childish or as an adult child would be doing because they don´t comprehend their own wrongdoings and at which cost it has on them. The aim would be to become a pro- social "psychopath" such as players, politicians, leaders and heavy organisers are.

Why I am mentioning all of this is because the key is the brain looking from a chemical/neurological viewpoint. One aim could be to try to find noots or drugs that affect these areas and stack them to test if they could possibly lead to an improved "sociability"!
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#33 Raptor87

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:57 PM

http://www.nature.co...ll/nn.2724.html

#34 Adaptogen

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:12 AM

Great thread, I wish there was more to read. Does anyone have any more tips/ideas on the issue? I am a student to all of you

#35 nupi

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:41 AM

1) Confidence as a sense of high-social rank or dominance. In primates, as in humans, dominance seems to be mediated by high levels of serotonin. Take a high ranking chimpanzee, give him a serotonin depleting drink, and he'll be a low-ranking chimpanzee before you know it.



Shouldn't SSRIs make me confident in this case?

#36 vtrader

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 08:28 PM

In retrospect, a few things have changed for me since I last replied to this thread, one of them being that contant brain fog issue mentioned else where.
I still feel confidence is there in the background, but its less apprant due to more intense worries and constant self put downs. My sex drive is down a lot compared to several months ago. I've just been lacking any positive outcomes to fuel the initial confidence/esteem drive.
Without a steady strem of sensory fueled positive experiences confidence can degrade after time. You need to keep pushing yourself, but for me this brain fog and poor mental cognition abilities is messing me up.

#37 Raptor87

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 01:24 AM

http://www.livescien...people-shy.html

What I find interesting is that some mentioned that Esteem/confidence is a social skill that people are born with.

A lot of people talk about confidence, I don't even know any more if there is such a thing as esteem/confidence or if it's just that some feel more safe with themselves because that's how they are born. Sometimes I hear people talk about confidence and there's a lot of books out there but I wonder if it's just the fact that is how they are because of perceived fears among others and they just seem to recognize people as being less "confident" and their response to it is to help people build confidence because that's how they perceive the world and who they are- of course they are "helping" people so they themselves will feel better about who they are and the fact that confidence can't actually be built, or is it possible?

What is a REALLY important question is! Can Esteem/confidence be attained by a born shy person without it being fictive or fake?

Edited by Brainfogged, 22 July 2013 - 01:27 AM.


#38 vtrader

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 06:36 AM

I feel more confident when I tell my brain to STFU and just being present. Confidence is being at ease with your being and situation in the now. And stop making judgements on everything, instead learning to be curious and aware.
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#39 nowayout

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:31 AM

Confidence comes from positive social feedback. That is all.

#40 Raptor87

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 03:31 PM

And what does anxiety/aggression have to do with all of this? And what is esteem? One would live with insults and the other would not take shit, or am I wrong? Anxiety (Hard to defend yourself) Aggression (doesn't take shit).

As I understand esteem (feeling safe with yourself) confidence (social feedback).

Edited by Brainfogged, 22 July 2013 - 03:36 PM.


#41 stablemind

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 12:13 AM

For me, confidence is positive motivation plus the absence of anxiety. The way I became confident was by getting rid of my anxiety through medication and supplements. This allowed me to think more clearly in social situations, however I still lacked motivation to socialize with others. I solved this issue by taking supplements that targeted the serotonin and dopamine pathways. I discovered that I have to be in a good mood in order to be confident. Positive thinking is also important, but when your mood keeps switching that's when you have try other methods as well.

#42 noos

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 12:32 AM

For me, confidence is positive motivation plus the absence of anxiety. The way I became confident was by getting rid of my anxiety through medication and supplements. This allowed me to think more clearly in social situations, however I still lacked motivation to socialize with others. I solved this issue by taking supplements that targeted the serotonin and dopamine pathways. I discovered that I have to be in a good mood in order to be confident. Positive thinking is also important, but when your mood keeps switching that's when you have try other methods as well.


Which medications and supplements?

Edited by noos, 23 July 2013 - 12:32 AM.


#43 stablemind

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:10 AM

For me, confidence is positive motivation plus the absence of anxiety. The way I became confident was by getting rid of my anxiety through medication and supplements. This allowed me to think more clearly in social situations, however I still lacked motivation to socialize with others. I solved this issue by taking supplements that targeted the serotonin and dopamine pathways. I discovered that I have to be in a good mood in order to be confident. Positive thinking is also important, but when your mood keeps switching that's when you have try other methods as well.


Which medications and supplements?



I'm currently taking Seroquel for my Bipolar II disorder which actually is quite a dirty drug, affecting a plethora of pathways; it's a H1 antagonist (which causes the drowsy side effect and allows me to quickly pass out every night), A1 Antagonist (which supposedly is one of the mechanisms by which Seroquel controls anxiety), cortisol reducer, NRI (supposedly how Seroquel relieves depression, see: http://thelastpsychi...rks_part_1.html). I'm currently on 50 mg a day, and have been using it for almost 3 years without any decline in efficacy. It knocks me out every night when I need sleep the most.

Seroquel effectively reduces all the adrenaline rushes I get, which I attribute to high cortisol. I'm currently working on reducing my cortisol through other means so hopefully I can discontinue this drug.

As for supplements, I'm currently taking Ginkgo Biloba and Tryptophan. I've tried a lot of other supplements which helped with confidence as well, however my current regiment seems work the best for me. My brain chemistry is different from most people though so keep this in mind. I've taken many vitamins and supplements, many of which seemed to balance me a little more so I never needed to continue taking them. There was definitely not one drug/supplement that helped me get this far, rather, a lot of core supplements and life style changes, including sleeping early, sleeping enough, getting enough sunlight, exercising, calorie restriction, etc.

Also, ALCAR and the Racetams (Piracetam/Pramiracetam) all help with mood enhancement, energy, and motivation. Racetams especially seem to help a lot of people with confidence.

Prior to supplementation I was really a bitch when it came to girls. Every girl I saw triggered a panic attack, and I would struggle just to have a super awkward conversation with them. I'm pretty sure they saw my strange micro-expressions which was the result of me suppressing the adrenaline rushes... oh god was that awful. I never grew out if it no matter how many numbers I got. Now I don't have a problem talking to anyone and I can now do almost anything with a lot of confidence.

Edited by stablemind, 23 July 2013 - 02:11 AM.


#44 Ukko

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 06:00 AM

High testosterone level. A ten inch penis doesn't hurt, either. Hence the phrase, "Cocky."


I am living proof that your last theory is not correct :)

#45 joostus

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:18 AM

I think a lack of confidence in the sense of social anxiety is in part socially construed due to upbringing in combination with an earlier negative experience. It's a social trait lodged into the brain, a fear response which creates a feedback loop every time it's encountered. This circle can be successfully broken, by self-training, therapeutic help or a positive phenomenon (winning the lottery would probably help).

In terms of medication I think substances which work on dopamine receptors can help but are a double-edged sword, from my own experience they can increase confidence in a very successfully way, but at the same time it can increase anxiety and can make you easily fall back into the the negative feedback loop when the medication is abstained.

What I think is the most successful lasting method are things that target memory consolidation, this can be therapy or a serotonin substances. While SSRI's can work for anxiety they have the problems of side-effects and with discontinuation it runs in the same problems as the dopamine medication. A possible substance which has some recent scientific backing for actually curing a fear-response and helping against minor depression is psilocybine. Psilocybine is (one of the) active ingredients of many mushrooms also know as magic mushrooms and sclerotia also known as philosopher stones. Different studies see a decrease in fear response and/or depression till up to six months after a single dose of psilocybine.

More anecdotal evidence, I use a micro-dose of psilocybin (around 0.65mg, [a hallucinatory "trip" is around 7mg]). This doesn't create any hallucinatory effects only minor changes in light perception. I notice a surge in energy and a slightly weird feeling. Sometimes some slight anxiety (really slight) can persist, I noticed when I go do what normally fears me, (for me it was beginning a project and socializing with neighbours or strangers) on the dose it becomes easier (working isn't really possible but I try anyway). The duration of effects is around 3 or 4 hours. In the direct days after the dosage a slight feeling persists. Socializing is easier and I have less trouble staring a project. Especially the next three days I feel an increased mood lift.
I wouldn't try it more than one a week, from reports I read from sustained micro-doses, this can lead to a loss of control of emotion and a slight dissociation can follow if these substance are used to regularly. The research in psilocybine is finally taking off, it is really hard to research this compound due to it's illegal status.


P.S. I strongly advise that any experiments with psilocybin is done with the utmost care, I will advise to stay at sub-hallucinatory doses (preferably less than 1mg). For information about the amount of psylocibin per species of msuhrooms see: http://www.shroomery...sage-Calculator.
p.p.s. In most countries psilocybin is illegal.

Here are some recent articles give more information about psilocybin possible effects on fear repsonse, PTSD and depression:
  • Grob, C., et al. (2013) Use of the Classic Hallucinogen Psilocybin for Treatment of Existential Distress Associated with Cancer. Psychological Aspects of Cancer.
  • Catlow, B., et al.(2013) Effects of psilocybin on hippocampal neurogenesis and extinction of trace fear conditioning. Experimental Brain Research.
  • Bernasconi, F. et al.(2013) Spatiotemporal Brain Dynamics of Emotional Face Processing Modulations Induced by the Serotonin 1A/2A Receptor Agonist Psilocybin
  • Zhang, G. et al. (2013) Stimulation of serotonin 2A receptors facilitates consolidation and extinction of fear memory in C57BL/6J mice. Neuropharmacology. (not psylocibin but another hallucinogen)


#46 nowayout

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 12:31 PM

Don't hallucinogenics lke psilocybin work largely via setotonin manipulation as far as we know? If so, aren't they subject to the same kind of side effects as SSRIs? We just won't know it yet because of lack of research, but the fact that their effects are supposed to be long term ir maybe permanent makes me nervous, as that means any.side effects might also be permanent.

#47 Androh

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:05 PM

Look up testosterone, and its effects on dopamine receptors, and I think you will have found your answer.
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#48 Major Legend

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:19 PM

As someone with pretty bad social anxiety, I never fit in in high school - got bullied badly, an outcast with other outcasts, don't fit in with society especially the sociable talky types know hundreds of social cluthes/techniques and people still call me weird. I'm however not autistic or not mentally disabled, my intelligence is reasonable, and i'm very well educated (went to private school) so having bad education and being a bad boy isn't the reason i get excluded either. I've spent years working on figuring this out and here is my take:

Confidence is complicated like intelligence. Its easy to confuse Confidence with focus/insensitivity. When you take adderall or have a lot of dopamine what you are achieving is making yourself a natural confident person, but this isn't confidence its' just focus and insensitivity, and people who are called confident are often this type. They just have a high latent inhibition. I for example have extremely low latent inhibition, the world is constantly screaming at me. Insensitivity has many social benefitis related to being kind of psychopathic, however it also leaves you blind to things that sensitive people are good with. Hence most great computer engineers, scientists and so on are sensitive people, and business leaders or management types tend to be insensitive. Insensitive because they are focused, or they have excellent control of focus in a loud environment This does make you feel confident, its the natural confidence people here are chasing elusively.

This above kind of confidence is hard to understand because people who have it don't see what they have, and people who see it just think the guys "got it" "alpha" and so on, really all it is is the capability to filter out noise in a loud environment and focus on a task, as the brain is filtering out irelevancy (often in social situations thats others bs), you connect with your body better and you live in the moment much more. Basically people who daydream a lot have "significant deviation" from what reality is, this is just because they are more sensitive. - its hard for these people to attain this kind of insensitivity without drugs, though meditation can achieve like 25% of what the real thing is like. ( I mean in an overly stimulatory environment, meditation can be used to counter the effects of over stimulation).

However these insensitive people may not be happy or really confident. Confidence in the traditional form means you are doing something and you know you will do it well, most of us are confident in something, and its also environmentally based. I've directed adverts and films before and I was confident because everyone placed me as important, and I'm focused on doing the job not making people like me, and I think thats confidence too. So this is complex - this is the one where you feel great because you are good at something not because you don't care. This is the one that is affected by how your parents raised you.

So if you used the natural form of confidence (the one from beliefs and the rational mind) and use it to compare with something that is more akin to brain configuration you will always misunderstand this and fight a losing battle. One form is a form, if you are not born with the only means to achieve it is via augmentation, the other form is something that you can have based on where you are or what you are doing - if we can even split something complex like confidence into two categories.

(sorry for my dyslexic like wording, the testosterone is destroying my ability to write - I think my mind is still mostly here =_=)

Edited by Major Legend, 23 July 2013 - 02:29 PM.

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#49 noos

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 02:32 PM

I saw a youtube video from London Real a Dr says psilocibyn deactivated frontal cortex.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=SqwjIjf4j0k

Thanks stablemind, have you tried phosphatidylserine for cortisol?

Edited by noos, 23 July 2013 - 02:33 PM.


#50 joostus

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:01 PM

Don't hallucinogenics lke psilocybin work largely via setotonin manipulation as far as we know? If so, aren't they subject to the same kind of side effects as SSRIs? We just won't know it yet because of lack of research, but the fact that their effects are supposed to be long term ir maybe permanent makes me nervous, as that means any.side effects might also be permanent.



Yes psilocybin works through serotonin manipulation but are totally different than SSRI which work by blocking the reuptake of serotonin through in the neurons. The different mechanisms also show in the different effects of the medication which are pretty clear.
with this different mechanisms there are also different side-effects, for SSRI this can be insomnia, erectile or orgasmic dysfunction and a bunch of others. With psilocybin a common side-effect with large doses are (if the goal medicative) hallucinations. It is true that the side-effects of psilocybin are less known, but the test which are done show no physical side effects. Of course if (long-term) neurological changes are made, this means means that also long term side effects could be apparent. Even if it isn't a heavally researched compound is is a widely used compound, I still have to stumble on serious longterm side effects (this doesn't mean these aren't there!!)
.
Also the most common used dosage of psilocybin used for there hallucinatory (or in some views mystical or spiritual) effects are most of the times more than 12 times the dose of my micro-dose.


This post isn't en encouragement to try psilocybin but more my view on confidence anxiety and to show the different side ass opposed to other the substances named in this thread and my personal experience in overcoming slight social anxiety and stalling of work due to lack of confidence.

#51 sthira

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:33 PM

Get really good at something hard that few others can do, and the confidence gained will spill over into other aspects of your life. The chemistry takes care of itself. Do something you love. Get really good -- own it. Then watch it all crumble apart. When change happens (change never stops happening) get really good at something else, something new.

#52 stablemind

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 12:13 AM

I saw a youtube video from London Real a Dr says psilocibyn deactivated frontal cortex.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=SqwjIjf4j0k

Thanks stablemind, have you tried phosphatidylserine for cortisol?



I haven't, but I will be trying Magnolia Bark and Holy Basil. PS isn't very cost effective and appears to raise choline levels which usually causes mood blunting for me so I probably won't use it.

#53 Major Legend

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 02:59 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-23431793

Wow psychopaths can switch empathy on and off at will, this goes with my theory that very confident people just have extreme focus and executive function, and why they can be charming and callous at the same time. I want this gene bad.

#54 Raptor87

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:45 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-23431793

Wow psychopaths can switch empathy on and off at will, this goes with my theory that very confident people just have extreme focus and executive function, and why they can be charming and callous at the same time. I want this gene bad.


The question is if there is such thing as empathy or is it just depersonalized anxiety? I don't think that a true psychopaths can switch themselves off/on but that they are OFF constantly. I think that pro- social people have that ability like police- officers etc.

BTW: One thing that is funny is that the focus these people have gives them the ability to have many interests. A lot of them have hobbies, they know art and they are genuinely interested and goal- oriented. They don't give a shit about people which can be very distracting. They are often perceived as intelligent and academic - - but then again we are talking about high functioning "paths" and not those morons who end up in jail for murdering children or stealing pennies from old ladies. Some are very executive and don't even feel anger, they just do! Others are constantly frustrated and agitated like small children. So it's kind of hard to determine what "they" really are. It's a spectrum disorder!

Edited by Brainfogged, 25 July 2013 - 10:52 PM.


#55 Major Legend

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 02:00 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-23431793

Wow psychopaths can switch empathy on and off at will, this goes with my theory that very confident people just have extreme focus and executive function, and why they can be charming and callous at the same time. I want this gene bad.


The question is if there is such thing as empathy or is it just depersonalized anxiety? I don't think that a true psychopaths can switch themselves off/on but that they are OFF constantly. I think that pro- social people have that ability like police- officers etc.

BTW: One thing that is funny is that the focus these people have gives them the ability to have many interests. A lot of them have hobbies, they know art and they are genuinely interested and goal- oriented. They don't give a shit about people which can be very distracting. They are often perceived as intelligent and academic - - but then again we are talking about high functioning "paths" and not those morons who end up in jail for murdering children or stealing pennies from old ladies. Some are very executive and don't even feel anger, they just do! Others are constantly frustrated and agitated like small children. So it's kind of hard to determine what "they" really are. It's a spectrum disorder!


I think it might be due to intelligence/iq as a cofounding factor in how successful a person is. No use being psychopathic if you are dumb, like you can be autistic and smart or autistic and dumb, makes a whole diffrence education and cognitive ability are often seperated from these mental variables which is why people with the same disorder can act so differently.

What the article hits on the nail, is why psychopathic people are charming when they want to be, if they lack empathy and having a extreme version of focus and executive functions makes a lot of sense. As they can focus on others feelings if they really wanted to and very well. Its therefore likely that many selfmmade successes - not all, have some psychopathic tendencies as you need to win people over but also need to be extremely cruel if need be. These opposite attributes did not make sense before.

Its always been a mystery to me why some people can be completely ruthless, cold and uncaring and then turn up to a wedding and make the most charming speeches, to the point where people are in tears.

Edited by Major Legend, 26 July 2013 - 02:04 AM.


#56 Raptor87

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:52 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-23431793

Wow psychopaths can switch empathy on and off at will, this goes with my theory that very confident people just have extreme focus and executive function, and why they can be charming and callous at the same time. I want this gene bad.


The question is if there is such thing as empathy or is it just depersonalized anxiety? I don't think that a true psychopaths can switch themselves off/on but that they are OFF constantly. I think that pro- social people have that ability like police- officers etc.

BTW: One thing that is funny is that the focus these people have gives them the ability to have many interests. A lot of them have hobbies, they know art and they are genuinely interested and goal- oriented. They don't give a shit about people which can be very distracting. They are often perceived as intelligent and academic - - but then again we are talking about high functioning "paths" and not those morons who end up in jail for murdering children or stealing pennies from old ladies. Some are very executive and don't even feel anger, they just do! Others are constantly frustrated and agitated like small children. So it's kind of hard to determine what "they" really are. It's a spectrum disorder!


I think it might be due to intelligence/iq as a cofounding factor in how successful a person is. No use being psychopathic if you are dumb, like you can be autistic and smart or autistic and dumb, makes a whole diffrence education and cognitive ability are often seperated from these mental variables which is why people with the same disorder can act so differently.

What the article hits on the nail, is why psychopathic people are charming when they want to be, if they lack empathy and having a extreme version of focus and executive functions makes a lot of sense. As they can focus on others feelings if they really wanted to and very well. Its therefore likely that many selfmmade successes - not all, have some psychopathic tendencies as you need to win people over but also need to be extremely cruel if need be. These opposite attributes did not make sense before.

Its always been a mystery to me why some people can be completely ruthless, cold and uncaring and then turn up to a wedding and make the most charming speeches, to the point where people are in tears.


The scary part is that these people can seem MORE human than someone that has issues with anxiety. Remember what Nietzsche said about mother of all morality.

#57 kurdishfella

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Posted 25 July 2021 - 08:58 PM

PEA for confidence. People are attracted to healthy and confident (n1) men/women etc.

Edited by kurdishfella, 25 July 2021 - 08:59 PM.


#58 kurdishfella

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Posted 13 November 2021 - 01:25 PM

Understanding. A lot of people are in a confused state of mind and think what they do makes them confident or logical but it is far from. Or they if behave this way they are smart. So they are just acting you don't wanna be just playing a fake role but become it which happens when your mind is in a balanced state of understanding, fear, empathy etc and they confuse a lot of feelings with each other like short term happiness from material things with true happiness from inside. Love with lust etc. attachment for care etc.

 

you shouldn't let drugs or unhealthiness affect you as much.


Edited by kurdishfella, 13 November 2021 - 01:29 PM.


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#59 kurdishfella

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Posted 13 November 2021 - 04:50 PM

innocence with stupidity



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