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C60 experiments @ home

buckyball c60 fullerene buckyballs

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#1 LeonardElijah

  • Location:San Diego

Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:13 AM

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http://extremelongev...s-rat-lifespan/

Not only that, you can now buy buckyballs on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.co...34617786&sr=8-5.

It's time for some daring souls to take one for the team and report back.


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MODERATOR'S NOTE
The above post already set the scene for the different thematic strands: there is discussion about the paper and the science behind it in this thread focussing on the paper by Baati et al and the putative mechanisms of action.
Meanwhile 'daring souls' have begun their own experiments and there is even some commercial interest (no advertising please!)
Initially the topics were often mixed, which may mean you have to cross reference the other thread for full context.

Edited by caliban, 15 July 2012 - 10:52 AM.
moderation

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#2 Elus Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:Interdimensional Space

Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:15 AM

Am I the only one who thinks this is somewhat bizarre and unexpected?

Hey, if it works who am I to judge?
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#3 DoomAndGloom Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:Florida

Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:34 AM

Next: eating carbon nanotubes
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#4 peakplasma Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:Canada sometimes Philadelphia
  • no

Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:35 AM

It's like a headline from the Onion.

They also demonstrated that the compound is fully absorbed via the GI tract and totally eliminated from the body in 10 hours


Buckyballs are just carbon but this is surprising... hell, in 20 years maybe diamonds will be the next selegiline.

Edited by peakplasma, 17 April 2012 - 02:35 AM.

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#5 smithx Re: C60 experiments @ home

Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:17 AM

5g is $592 from sigma:
http://www.sigmaaldr...ng=en&region=US

I'm sure the price comes way down for larger orders.

The mice were fed 1.7mg/Kg, but we have no way of knowing what dosage would actually be correct for humans, if there is a correct dosage. If a reasonable human dosage was 1/6 of a mouse dosage we'd be looking at 0.28mg/Kg or something like 17mg per dose. This would fit in a medium sized oil capsule.

At the 5gm price, we're looking at about $2 per dose, which is high but not insane. With a bulk price, I imagine it would end up more like 30 cents per dose.

So who's going to be the first to start taking buckyballs? And how will we measure their effects? C reactive protein? Erythrocyte sedimentation rate? Or what?
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#6 Anthony_Loera Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:00 PM

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It's time for some daring souls to take one for the team and report back.


I spoke with Dr. Hector Valenzuela about it a bit...
and I think it might be a good addition to my 77 kg rat's... uhm... diet.

I think I will start out with 150mg in olive oil.

I do see it as expensive for most people that have 77kg rats locked in their dungeon though.
Would I suggest it for human intake? No... but no one is stopping you from making your own decision on this.

Cheers
A
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#7 Krell Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:BaileysCrossroads,VA

Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:21 PM

It looks like there has been some activity in fullerene bio commercialization:

C Sixty (web site abandoned but available on the interenet archive)
http://web.archive.o....com/index.html

Arrowhead Research seems to have owned C Sixty
http://www.arrowhead...1126043018.html

Tego Biosciences seems to have taken over C Sixty work
http://www.tegobio.com/
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#8 stephen_b Re: C60 experiments @ home

Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:47 PM

and I think it might be a good addition to my 77 kg rat's... uhm... diet.

Keep us posted on how your rat fares! :-D
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#9 Junk Master Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:United States

Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:55 AM

Yes, Anthony extremely interested in short term effects-- especially on recovery from H.I.T exercise.
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#10 prophets Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:US

Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:26 AM

i'd sooner shoot up AICAR than put buckyballs into my body. without knowing the mechanism of action, it's just crazy to me. i gotta look at this study more closely this weekend, because i thought it was totally misleading that they claim a doubling of lifespan where olive oil alone produced ~70-80% of the same benefits. i must be missing something.
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#11 LeonardElijah Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:San Diego

Posted 21 April 2012 - 03:10 AM

I hope this doesn't turn out to be a hoax or bad science (Thanks for pointing out that suspicious aspect of the paper, Malbecman). Bad science could undermine the credibility of the longevity movement.


Longevity movement?

I'm here for the brain health.

I can't wait for to make hyperdimensional gifts made of light and complex mathematics for my alien friends in fractal universes when I die.

Posted Image

DMT: Accept your mortality.
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#12 Anthony_Loera Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 21 April 2012 - 02:29 PM

Howard,

Not sure if toxicity changes, but the steps will be followed so that the material is the same before i give it to my rat.

A
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#13 Hebbeh Re: C60 experiments @ home

Posted 21 April 2012 - 04:01 PM

Howard,

Not sure if toxicity changes, but the steps will be followed so that the material is the same before i give it to my rat.

A


n=2 would double the data points....and my rat is more than willing to sacrifice for the cause. ;)
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#14 smithx Re: C60 experiments @ home

Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:55 AM

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Ingesting a substance which is possibly beneficial in solution, but definitely toxic in suspension or if it clumps together seems foolhardy without a LOT more testing.

Among other things, we don't know:'
  • how long it stays in solution
  • how quickly it might aggregate
  • what conditions to store the solution under
  • whether it could react with medications or supplements either in the intestinal tract or inside the body to aggregate or in other deleterious ways
  • etc etc
It's one thing to take a supplement which has been shown to have a low toxicity but which may provide benefit. It's another entirely to take a substance which could prove to be highly toxic.
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#15 DeadMeat Re: C60 experiments @ home

Posted 22 April 2012 - 12:04 PM

Ingesting a substance which is possibly beneficial in solution, but definitely toxic in suspension or if it clumps together seems foolhardy without a LOT more testing.

Among other things, we don't know:'

  • how long it stays in solution
  • how quickly it might aggregate
  • what conditions to store the solution under


It should stay stable at least 4 years in the dark and at room temp. It better be, if it takes 2 weeks of stirring at room temp to dissolve the stuff.
http://extremelongev...0-Fullerene.pdf

The resulting C60-olive oil solution is purple and contains 0.80 +- 0.02 mg/ml (n ¼ 6) as determined by HPLC [30] after appropriate dilution in the mobile phase. The chromatographic profile and the extracted spectra of these solutions are similar to those obtained with a control C60-toluene equimolar solution. The stability of both oily and control solutions stored at ambient temperature and in the dark was checked monthly during 48 months. No change was recorded under our chromatographic conditions.


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#16 Anthony_Loera Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:11 AM

I hear ya,

I need to purchase or borrow a centrifuge from the california lab...

I think 54 grams will last a whole year... for 1 big rat. Since i am buying a kilo... possibilities abound.

Let me get my hands on a centrifuge and process the whole kilo... then I will come back here to raffle some of the material that has been processed as long as you want to test your own rats longevity.

Cheers
A
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#17 PWAIN Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:Melbourne

Posted 24 April 2012 - 01:11 AM

I hear ya,

I need to purchase or borrow a centrifuge from the california lab...

I think 54 grams will last a whole year... for 1 big rat. Since i am buying a kilo... possibilities abound.

Let me get my hands on a centrifuge and process the whole kilo... then I will come back here to raffle some of the material that has been processed as long as you want to test your own rats longevity.

Cheers
A


Anthony,

What is the purity of that Kg? The study used 99.98% and I think to optimise safety, sticking to such levels should be followed since water dissolved stuff seems to be quite harmful.

By the way, where do I get a raffle ticket :).

PS. I love the idea of an elixir of eternal life being a purple liquid.
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#18 Destiny's Equation Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:Florida, USA

Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:02 PM

My guess is that it binds with toxins.

Would anyone on this forum feel comfortable with testing this hypothesis on their rat? (Juice or milk bottled in plastic could be used as a source of toxins.)
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#19 sartac Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:Georgia, US

Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:12 AM

I'm game, just as soon as we figure a way to recapture the unutilized "fullerines" from our excrement.

Shitting gold would be an understatement..
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#20 Krell Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:BaileysCrossroads,VA

Posted 25 April 2012 - 02:51 PM

http://articlesandbl...anote-n162.html



Ukraine is about to launch the world's first nanotechnology water health drink with hydrated fullerenes or C60-HyFnsTOP


"Fullerene Water Solution" or "FWS" (formerly Omnium Water or "OW") on basis of aqueous solutions of hydrated fullerenes

Many people have been asking about the availability of C60 Hydrated Fullerenes or Fullerene Water Solution (FWS) from Ukraine.

As you may have heard, FWS completed and passed human clinical trials in Ukraine on Jan. 19th, 2010 and recently completed toxicology studies (chromosome and daughter chromatid studies) which have been submitted to the Ministry of Health. Final permission to manufacture from the Ministry of Health is expected soon.

For the people who do not know, both natural and synthetic fullerenes (or Carbon 60 or Buckeyballs) were named after Buckminster Fuller and his geodesic dome, because C60 molecules resembles a 60 point soccer ball. They were the first known naturally occurring nano structures, discovered by Curl, Kroto and Smalley in 1985. Ten years later they won the Nobel prize in chemistry in 1996 for their discovery. Fullerenes were touted as the silver bullet in medicine, but because natural pristine fullerenes are not water soluble, the medical hype quickly died down. However, Ukrainian scientists were the only group in the world that discovered how to make fullerenes water soluble without increasing its toxicity (hence the name water-soluble or Hydrated Fullerenes or HyFN's).
In Ukraine, they are registered as a natural food supplement. You'll find fullerenes occurring naturally in nano-quantities in many instances -- in molasses (i.e an ingredient all dark bread -fullerenes come from heating sugar cane), in the Sudbury meteor crater (from the impact explosion and as an extra-terrestrial C60 material ), every time you light a candle and in all lightening bolt discharges (soot and carbon black turns into C60 fullerenes under extreme heat) and in natural springs ( i.e. one health spa in Russia.)

A limited supply is now available for doctors and research collaborators in the West
The Institute in Kharkiv (IPAC) has a new web site- part of which is in English.
Go to http://www.ipacom.com
Fullerenes and Water http://www.ipacom.co...renes-and-water
Medical and biological properties of Hydrated Fullerenes HyFN's http://www.ipacom.co...d-water-left/74 (all supported by peer-reviewed academic research papers below)

History of research collaboration: http://www.ipacom.co...eration-left/53
Current and future Research Directions (very extensive and very interesting): http://www.ipacom.co...p/en/researches
Published research papers: http://www.ipacom.co.../en/research/48
"Fullerene Water Solution" is a unique complex of highly specific and stable water and carbon clusters or structures. Their formation and maintenance are determined by the presence of structures of pure carbon 60 otherwise known as fullerenes or buckyballs.

The technology to create hydrated Fullerenes (C-60 HyFNs) is protected by two patents in Ukraine and one in Russia. Moreover, the medical and biological properties of these remarkable complexes, are fully documented in more then 30 academic papers in scientific peer-reviewed publications and in over 60 presentations / reports at leading international congresses or conferences over the period of 1994 to 2010. see http://www.ipacom.co.../en/research/48
Medical/ Biological Effects (from the IPAC web site)
Extensive research published in peer-reviewed academic journals has shown that FWS:
are "rational" and extremely high level antioxidants with long-term actions, which not only normalise the lipid peroxidation processes and cellular membranes' lipid composition, but also protect and activate the systems of intrinsic anti-oxidant defences in the body;
increase cellular membrane stability against the unfavourable factors' effecting and restoring the disturbed intracellular energy supply;

promote the processes of cellular differentiation and tissue regeneration;
inhibit cellular apoptosis, i.e. so called "programmed cells loss";
are non-immunogenic, but has the positive immunomodulatory properties and protects the immune system from damaging factors;
have adaptogenic and antistressor properties, associated with positive effects on the central nervous system functions, and have the ability to protect nervous tissue from the damaging action of free radicals;
have the long-term antihistaminic and anti-inflammatory activity; preventing and treating numerous inflammatory triggered diseases, such as arthritis, diabetes, deep vein thrombosis (blood clots), Alzheimer's and other anti-inflammatory triggered diseases
protect cardiovascular systems from the atherosclerosis-related pathologies of cardiovascular system and efficiently inhibit the atherosclerosis causative factors;
are the highly efficient hepatoprotectors at the therapy and prophylaxis of liver pathologies of various aetiology, including liver cirrhosis;
attenuate alcohol withdrawal syndrome due to alcoholism;
effective at stomach and duodenal ulcers;
effective at biliary, pancreas and urinary bladder diseases;
posses the marked anti-burn, regenerative, antiulcer and wound healing activity (particularly in combination with mild antibacterial agents);
reduce the organisms' recovery period after surgical interventions;
protect from & prevent bacterial and viral infections, acute respiratory disease, and are very effective against Ent-diseases;
in the course of prophylactic intake, reduce the probability of development of oncopathologies, and in the case of their onset, they assist the organism to inhibit and restrain depending on the stage of the disease. Besides the independent application, it is a potent additive agent in the combined rational therapy of ontological conditions;
considerably prolong the remission terms in patients after surgical removal of neoplasms and reduce the risk of an active neoplastic process recurrence;
favour the reduction of side effects of the active anti-tumor chemotherapy, improving tolerance;
posses non-specific analgesic action, improve quality of life in patients with pain syndrome;
are radioprotectors, eliminating radiotherapy-caused adverse side-effects;
posses the clear positive influence on the human reproductive functions and can be used for the treatment of various functional forms of sterility;
positively and naturally improve sexual potency ;
efficient in addressing chronic fatigue syndrome;
posses the general favourable action directed on the support of the normal organism function and slowdown the negative manifestations of the age-related changes (ageing, telomere damage etc.).

DOSAGE:
The recommended scheme of single administration course of "FWS"
A portion of 20-50 ml (1-2 tablespoons), sip as follows:
- in the first 3-4 days - 3 times a day;
- in the next 3-4 days - 2 times a day; and,
- afterwards finish the balance of "FWS" - 1-2 tablespoons once a day.
Intake in fasting condition, at least 15-20 minutes before meals or before any other medical product.
It is desirable to store "FWS" in dark, cool place at 4-15 degrees Celsius, so when a portion of "OW" has been measured before intake, it is allowed to be heated up to 20-35 degrees Celsius. After single course of "FWS" administration, its favourable actions can be apparent for up to 6-7 months. However to receive the persistent medical and prophylactic effects it is recommended to take 3-4 courses of "FWS" once in 3-4 months.
NO CONTRAINDICATIONS
NO ADVERSE EFFECTS
PACKAGE FORM: bottles with volumes of 0,5; 1,0 and 1,5 litres.
STORAGE CONDITIONS: Store in dark cool place, at temperatures between 4-15 degrees Celsius (don't freeze!).


Shell-life is unrestricted.
In Ukraine Contact:
Grigoriy V. Andrievsky Director of Science, PhD. "Institute of Physiological Active Compounds" LLC. 58, Lenin ave., 61072, Kharkiv, Ukraine
Phone: +38 057 763 0521
(Phone/Fax, Office) +38 057 719 6103
(Lab.) +38 095 894 65 21 (mob.)
E-mail: yard@kharkov.ua science@ipacom.com
About the institute: http://www.ipacom.com
In Canada:
For information about academic collaboration, availability of FWS, medical tours to Ukraine to obtain FWS contact Walter Derzko at 416-819-9667 or at wderzko@pathcom.com or walter.derzko@utoronto.ca

Edited by Krell, 25 April 2012 - 02:54 PM.

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#21 Anthony_Loera Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:17 PM

Hi again,

The material i am looking it is 99.98% pure, and it will be dissolved in olive oil, centrifuged and filtered.

When i get closer to the finished material, i'll chime in on this thread and let ya know more about the raffle, as i am sure your happy rats are looking forward to it.

Cheers
A

Circle me:
https://profiles.goo...236572014252197
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#22 Anthony_Loera Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 29 April 2012 - 05:15 PM

Well,

Today i am trying to see if i can even stomach eating 13 tablespoons of olive oil with carbon (not C60)... i can't see drinking the liquid as its about 4/5 of a cup... so i added tuna.

Boy is this stuff gnarly... no wonder the rats didnt move much after each forced oral dose... i am not sure oil is going to make me fee all too well today.

Lets see what happens, and how my stomach takes this.

Cheers
A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

Attached Files


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#23 8bitmore Re: C60 experiments @ home

Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:34 PM

Well,
Today i am trying to see if i can even stomach eating 13 tablespoons of olive oil with carbon (not C60)... i can't see drinking the liquid as its about 4/5 of a cup... so i added tuna.

Boy is this stuff gnarly... no wonder the rats didnt move much after each forced oral dose... i am not sure oil is going to make me fee all too well today.

Lets see what happens, and how my stomach takes this.
Cheers
A


And you are absolutely sure that what you're taking is completely dissolved as opposed to suspended (the old brown vs purple light refraction seems steady indicator)? I wish you the best of luck: I wouldn't for the life of me be going first hand trial with this but of course this situation is slightly "safer" if you went through the same procedure as the authors of the C60/rats study:

2.1. C60-olive oil solution preparation

Virgin olive oil is obtained from a Chemlali Boughrara cultivar from Tunisia
planted in the Sahel area. C60 (purity 99.98%) was obtained from SES Research
Corporation (USA) and used without further purification.
Fifty mg of C60 were dissolved in 10 ml of olive oil by stirring for 2 weeks at
ambient temperature in the dark. The resulting mixture was centrifuged at 5.000 g for
1 h and the supernatant was filtered through aMillipore filter with 0.25 mmporosity.


... did you? I sincerely hope you will be ok taking it. Edit: just re-read your post... why are you eating carbon dust that isn't even C60... just feeling like a culinary challenge?

Edited by 8bitmore, 29 April 2012 - 06:50 PM.

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#24 Anthony_Loera Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:51 PM

As i mentioned in my previous post...

This is not fullerene (C60) with olive oil.

This first run, is simply to see how nasty the concoction will taste, and if the taste and amount of oil will be something that the average person could handle.

I did mix in edible carbon in the olive oil... so dont worry i wont keel over.

Cheers
A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197
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#25 Googoltarian Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:EU

Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:08 PM

IMHO by doing this experiment you learn nothing about this C60 elixir, apart from how it feels to ingest large amount of oil. If I understand it correctly what you ate is SUSPENSION (dispersed particles) of some activated charcoal/carbon, when rats were given SOLUTION (solvated particles) of active material in oil. ;)
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#26 Metrodorus Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:London

Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:09 PM

The calculation for human dosage is 4mg/kg x6/57
.42mg/kg

Dosage of the rats was not daily.

Daily dosage would be much lower.

Olive oil is adsorbed by cocoa powder, and with hot water added, makes a rich chocolate drink - and the oil becomes miscible with water.

Such high dosages of olive oil may lead to lead to other health complications, if you have chronic high intake.

Some forms of amorphous carbon are carcinogenic. Take care.
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#27 zorba990 Re: C60 experiments @ home

Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:36 PM

There are huge differences in olive oil quality with some commercial bleached store brands being horribly oxidized.
http://www.oliveoilt...e-problem/12103
There are some good ones like Bariani, but even so, I've never personally been able to tolerate much of it without feeling ill.

I wonder if using coconut oil would be a possible alternative.
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#28 Metrodorus Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:London

Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:12 PM

a search on google scholar for "fullerene long chain fatty acids solubility" will raise a couple of papers with the information you are looking for.

Edited by Metrodorus, 29 April 2012 - 10:12 PM.

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#29 Turnbuckle Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:USA

Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:15 PM

There are huge differences in olive oil quality with some commercial bleached store brands being horribly oxidized.
http://www.oliveoilt...e-problem/12103
There are some good ones like Bariani, but even so, I've never personally been able to tolerate much of it without feeling ill.

I wonder if using coconut oil would be a possible alternative.


I don't know about coconut oil, but a Russian group studied the solubility of fullerenes in various vegetable oils (if you want to pay for information)--

Abstract: Polythermal (in the temperature range 0−80°C) solubility of light fullerenes (C60 and C70), and also of fullerene mixtures (65% C60, 34% C70, and 1% C76–90) in vegetable oils (of unrefined and refined sunflower, corn, olive, linen, apricot, grape, cedar, and walnut) was studied; the corresponding solubility polytherms are given and characterized.

http://www.springerl...21791045646375/

Edited by Turnbuckle, 29 April 2012 - 10:51 PM.

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#30 Turnbuckle Re: C60 experiments @ home

  • Location:USA

Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:39 PM

As i mentioned in my previous post...

This is not fullerene (C60) with olive oil.

This first run, is simply to see how nasty the concoction will taste, and if the taste and amount of oil will be something that the average person could handle.

I did mix in edible carbon in the olive oil... so dont worry i wont keel over.

Cheers
A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197



C60 at .8 mg/ml in olive oil has very little taste--or is masked by the strong taste of the oil. I've been taking this concentration for a few days at a .03 mg/kg daily dose (2 mg total), which is a tiny fraction of the rat longevity study. The results, if they hold up, are very interesting.
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