17 replies to this topic

[philantropist]

Goals: Improved thought process and clarity, ease of understanding new and/or complex concepts, short-long term memory enhancement and of course straight As

1. Omega 3 (Yielding 350mg EPA, 250mg DHA)
2. Aniracetam 750mg
3. Oxiracetam 750mg
4. Gingko Biloba 120mg
5. Phosphatidylserine 100mg
6. ALCAR 250mg
7. Cognizin Choline (every few days)

1. My main concern is the fat-soluble nature of Aniracetam; does that mean it stores in your fat cells? I've had experiences with the fat-soluble benzodiazepine and that was hell to get off of.

2. I used to (and to a limited extent have till now) some anxiety issues, will an aniracetam/oxiracetam stack of that dosage worsen my anxiety? I have read that Aniracetam is anxiolytic, while oxiracetam is anxiogenic. Does this mean they balance each other out?

Thanks!

[brainslugged]

1. I have never heard of ani storing in fat cells.

2. I have social anxiety, and aniracetam makes me feel sick from what I can tell. Oxiracetam, however, reduces physical anxiety symptoms and physically relaxes me, but does not seem to effect mental anxiety much at all, maybe it reduces it a bit, but not much.

[philantropist]

thanks for the reply. hmmm thats strange cos Ive read elsewere that oxi makes ppl 'speedy' and 'racy'.
so what does it do really? those are contradictory reports.

[brainslugged]

I think I am a bit strange in that regard. For me, some stimulants are actually kinda relaxing. I think it depends on your own biochemistry. I think oxi is a stimulant, but you can't be sure exactly what it is going to stimulate until you take it. I think it is the same concept as how amphetamines help some people with social anxiety.

For me, it does give me more energy, but it also seems to organize it or something. It is not racy to me, but more the energy to calm myself down, if it helps to think of it that way. Both it and piracetam also make me feel more pressured to write, which is a type of stimulant effect, I think. It is defiantly not a tranquilizer to me, but it does not make me feel agitated and anxious like high doses of caffeine do.

The point is that everyone reacts differently.

It would be best if you could buy small quantities first with these two and just try them out. Each of them should take effect within a day or two, and any increase in anxiety that may happen will only last as long as you take the drug (if you only take it for a short amount of time. There may be long lasting effects if you take it for an extended period).

I have found that reports on exactly what they do to mood seem to be extremely varied, and I think this is because they act to excite mechanisms that reach far through the brain and effect it in many different ways, so what it does for you is largely dependent on your unique brain structure/chemistry.

I would just recommend you try them, and if you don't like them, you discard them. Of course, try one at a time first to be able to tell which is the one that needs to be discarded. It does involve some trial and error.

[philantropist]

ok so i just bought some oxiracetam and aniracetam, not much...30 capsules worth
and i just wanna ask if racetams affect the heart in any way

[brainslugged]

philantropist, on 08 September 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

ok so i just bought some oxiracetam and aniracetam, not much...30 capsules worth
and i just wanna ask if racetams affect the heart in any way

They sorta thin blood, but I don't think they have any direct (negative) affect on the heart.

I did find this just on the front page of the search results.
http://www.piracetam...c-heart-disease

I think it reduces palatal aggregation which is why it is used for thrombosis and other vein problems, but that is the only major circulatory effect on healthy people that I know of.

[philantropist]

cool stuff :P what about oxi and ani are they the same owing to the fact that all fall under the racetam family? or do they have characteristics unique to themselves with regard to cardiovascular function

[philantropist]

philantropist, on 09 September 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

cool stuff :P what about oxi and ani are they the same owing to the fact that all fall under the racetam family? or do they have characteristics unique to themselves with regard to cardiovascular function

oh and yes before I forget, how should I take oxi and ani. I suppose not together, but when (on an empty stomach? in the morning? during revision?  before lectures?)? And must they be taken daily, or as and when? Should a choline source be taken together with oxi and ani everytime?

Also, I read somewhere on this site that oxi is best for revision and ani best for grasping concepts in lectures. Is this right?

Sorry for the bombardment of questions! lol

[brainslugged]

philantropist, on 09 September 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

philantropist, on 09 September 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

cool stuff :P what about oxi and ani are they the same owing to the fact that all fall under the racetam family? or do they have characteristics unique to themselves with regard to cardiovascular function

oh and yes before I forget, how should I take oxi and ani. I suppose not together, but when (on an empty stomach? in the morning? during revision?  before lectures?)? And must they be taken daily, or as and when? Should a choline source be taken together with oxi and ani everytime?

Also, I read somewhere on this site that oxi is best for revision and ani best for grasping concepts in lectures. Is this right?

Sorry for the bombardment of questions! lol

I would think that oxi and ani have similar blood effects to pi, but I don't know, and have never read any research on it.

You will just have to experiment with them to find out the best administration method. I normally take all three of them with fish oil and vitamins, and then I eat breakfast. I think that all three are absorbed like this, but I am sure that some people would disagree. Ani is fat-soluble, so I think it is probably best to take it with a meal. Pi and oxi are water-soluble, so I think it is okay just to take them with a lot of water. Here is what I am planning on starting next week

On wake, take pi and oxi with 250ml water
30 minutes later take Vitamins, fish oil, and ani with breakfast

The best result I had so far was from taking pi and oxi in the morning, and then, wanting to try the ani again, taking the ani and following it with 2 Reese's. The effect was quite pronounced, to the point where I noticed it while I had had dismissed ani in the past because it had not worked for me, but I wouldn't dismiss the fact that it could just be in my mind that this one was better than the rest. I feel like taking everything combined is not as effective, but I didn't think of that when I was setting out my pills, and I had two weeks of 4 white, mostly identical pills in each day's slot in my box, and I am too lazy go inspect them and try and figure out which looks like ani.

http://www.longecity...-empty-stomach/

As far as choline goes, I rarely take it. I take it sometimes when I am having trouble thinking. The feeling is mostly a dry feeling in my brain, like it is difficult to move things. I don't know how universally felt this is, or if it is maybe negative placebo, but the choline relieves it nonetheless. Depending on how young you are and your personal chemistry, your dosage will vary I would recommend that you play around with it. Start off not taking any and see if adverse effects occur. Take more until the adverse effects are gone or when they are the most gone you can get them to, but don't overdose on it (I wouldn't go over 1g, but that was just an arbitrary limit I defined for myself. I don't know the real overdose). There will probably be a sweet spot up until which you will feel tired, and after which you will start to feel anxious or depressed.

I have never heard of ani vs oxi for grasping concepts vs revision. I think the effects of each are largely different for each user. It is an experimentation thing again. Racetams are also supposedly synergistic, so I would just take all three if you have the money. One is probably not going to reduce the effects of another.

[philantropist]

ahhhh ok yeah that seems logical; not taking choline at first and then adding it into the regime
im still having reservations taking ani and oxi together (at what dosage btw) cos they are apparently many times more potent than pi and i dont know if i would overload my brain doing so. touchy area

[brainslugged]

philantropist, on 09 September 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

ahhhh ok yeah that seems logical; not taking choline at first and then adding it into the regime
im still having reservations taking ani and oxi together (at what dosage btw) cos they are apparently many times more potent than pi and i dont know if i would overload my brain doing so. touchy area

I don't think you have much to worry about when it comes to overloading your brain except for maybe having a bad day. I doubt there is really anything serious to worry about when it comes to that as long as you are taking reasonable doses. None of them are particularly strong drugs in comparison to many recreational drugs and medicines, so you have to be pretty sensitive to actually overload from it. Normally it is just depression or mild trouble thinking that happens with an overdose, and it goes away after the substance is out of your body.

Still, it is normally recomended that you do each individually, every day, for a week or so(it depends on the substance, pi actually may take a few weeks for it to have a real effect) in order to see how you react to each individually. Then cut out the ones that you don't seem to react to or have adverse reactions to, and remember your dosage for the ones you keep. I think dosage normally stays the same even when combined. You can combine them in permutations if you want, but I never did that, I just try them individually for a while and then decide to include or exclude it in my normal stack.

There are a lot of posts about dosage, and it is another thing that you are kinda going to have to find out for yourself since everyone is different.

My optimal doses seem to be around
1.3g pi
650mg oxi
650mg ani
But I don't really experiment with it much, so I might could push it higher. I just don't have the money to increase doses now.

[panax]

Ani is fat-soluble so whether that means it stores in your body fat or not, it is at least absorbed better when taken with fish oil or something of that nature. I've tried Prami and Ani and noticed Ani to have a more 'stimulant' type feel towards it. Not in the way that you think of "go go go" stimulation, but it makes concentration a lot more pleasurable.

[philantropist]

ok FIRST day of taking oxi
i dont feel much of a difference
maybe ideas flow a little better and tend to piece themselves together without any deliberate attempts on my part to do so
reading (even extremely dry history texts) also seems marginally more pleasurable

[philantropist]

lol  this is a follow-up of my nootropic adventures last semester: without going into much detail, it is suffice to say I did sufficiently well enough to transfer into a Top-15 undergraduate Economics programme from an overseas college.

Overall, dosing on Aniracetam and Oxiracetam proved to be tremendously effective for my study session; I can memorize super large chunks of esoteric information (like statistical methods) with ease. However, I feel like while I am able to memorize almost everything, application of information seems a lot harder. It is as if what I know is comparatively lesser than what I understand. Case-in-point, I scored 94% for my stats midterms (class average hovered around ~70%), but I barely scraped through the stats project. In other words, regurgitation of information (no matter how much or how difficult) appears to have improved to INSANE levels, but almost at the expense of knowledge application. Whether this is due to overconfidence or a simple lack of regard for the project I can't say, but nonetheless, I recommend everyone to stack Anir and Oxi together for their study sessions.

I'll be beginning class in the US this fall for Economics and I will definitely keep everyone posted about my experiences with nootropics. My plan for the fall semester is to stack Aniracetam and Pramiracetam one month before school begins and continue with both of those AND Oxiracetam when the semester starts. I  might also try Centrophenoxine and Piracetam. Anyone have any opinions about this stack?

Edited by philantropist, 06 May 2013 - 11:27 PM.

[Sanguine_Rogue]

Nice log Philantropist, and it's always awesome to see someone come back to drop a line after a gap letting everyone (well us here at least) know how effective a few racetams or nootropics can be.

Since you're already quite familiar with Aniracetam and Oxiracetam I won't touch on them too much. I'd definitely suggest, however, that in the month before the semester starts that you supplement Piracetam alongside the Aniracetam simply due to how Piracetam's effects take a bit more time to build up compared to Ani/Oxi/Prami-Racetam. As well as Piracetam's benefit in regards to the corpus callosum being stimulated, having Piracetam already built up and ready might prove useful considering how many racetams/nootropics you plan to stack together.

Centrophenoxine is a nice inclusion to your stack. To be honest I hadn't included nor tried centrophenoxine for some time after I began using nootropics, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it is one of the nootropics that I had gotten to hear about early on considering how it is somewhat cholinergic since it is a ester of DMAE as well as its purported neuro-protective qualities.

I'd say in the month before fall semester stack the Centro/Piracetam/Aniracetam together and then once the semester kicks in add Oxiracetam and Pramiracetam to your stack.

What you described in the second paragraph is how I feel in regards to Aniracetam in general. The brief time that I tested it alone I felt that information on "the tip of my tongue" came out much easier than expected however beyond reciting the information I had comparatively similar difficulty in actually applying the information.

If you haven't looked into L-Theanine, sulbutiamine, and either CDP choline or alpha-gpc I'd recommend you do. I found each of these to be helpful in my stack to help with slight social anxiety as well as to help improve memorization.

[philantropist]

philantropist, on 06 May 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

It is as if what I know is comparatively lesser than what I understand.

it is as if what I understand is comparatively lesser than what I know* was what I meant lol

Sanguine_Rogue, on 07 May 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Nice log Philantropist, and it's always awesome to see someone come back to drop a line after a gap letting everyone (well us here at least) know how effective a few racetams or nootropics can be.

Since you're already quite familiar with Aniracetam and Oxiracetam I won't touch on them too much. I'd definitely suggest, however, that in the month before the semester starts that you supplement Piracetam alongside the Aniracetam simply due to how Piracetam's effects take a bit more time to build up compared to Ani/Oxi/Prami-Racetam. As well as Piracetam's benefit in regards to the corpus callosum being stimulated, having Piracetam already built up and ready might prove useful considering how many racetams/nootropics you plan to stack together.

Centrophenoxine is a nice inclusion to your stack. To be honest I hadn't included nor tried centrophenoxine for some time after I began using nootropics, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it is one of the nootropics that I had gotten to hear about early on considering how it is somewhat cholinergic since it is a ester of DMAE as well as its purported neuro-protective qualities.

I'd say in the month before fall semester stack the Centro/Piracetam/Aniracetam together and then once the semester kicks in add Oxiracetam and Pramiracetam to your stack.

What you described in the second paragraph is how I feel in regards to Aniracetam in general. The brief time that I tested it alone I felt that information on "the tip of my tongue" came out much easier than expected however beyond reciting the information I had comparatively similar difficulty in actually applying the information.

If you haven't looked into L-Theanine, sulbutiamine, and either CDP choline or alpha-gpc I'd recommend you do. I found each of these to be helpful in my stack to help with slight social anxiety as well as to help improve memorization.

thanks! =) wow that was great feedback. thanks for taking the time to share. I think I'll do as you say, sounds like a really great stack: Centro+Pir+Ani 1 month in then Oxi+Pram.

Two questions though:
1)would I have to cycle any of the racetams at all? For eg, take them for 5 weekdays and lay off the pills for the weekends. Is that necessary?
2) Also, I eat 4-6 eggs daily already. Is there a need for additional choline or would that be too much?

Thanks again!!

[Sanguine_Rogue]

No problem a chara, thanks for the complement in regards to my post.

In response to your questions, none of the racetams that you are taking will require you to cycle them, most racetams (aside from phenylpiracetam) have cumulative effects so a continuous regimen will yield better results opposed to taking a break. Since you are eating a good amount of eggs I'd honestly have to say that you likely do not need to supplement any form of choline unless you start to experience any headaches, which I highly doubt will happen. Taking too much choline can cause some drowsiness (I've personally experienced this with Alpha-GPC) and for some may even cause depression.

[philantropist]

wow depression? ok i guess i'll just take some choline on my egg-less days and skip that on the other days.

well, I'll let you guys know how I do real soon, so stay tuned cos I'll always be back to update this thread!