27 replies to this topic

[Logic]

It seems that the people who came up with Big Brother want to send 4 people to Mars, permanently, and screen the whole thing!
Anyone can apply to be 1 of the 4 people.

http://mars-one.com/en/

So who's applying?

[Mind]

I would consider it, if it was not ultimately a one way ticket. If there was a robust plan for further colonization and the building of a return space ship on the red planet (or an eventual back and forth shuttle service) - for a return trip a few years after you arrived (maybe 5 to 10 years), that would be more palatable. What a lot of potential colonists do not realize is that your body would change quite a bit over the course of months or years on Mars, because the gravity is only 1/3 that of earth.

[Lazarus Long]

I would definitely consider a ticket to ride an asteroid into deep space heliocentric orbit to mine and colonize it. I think older folks should colonize first because breeding is less important to us and experience makes us better survivors.

[Logic]

You do realise that these guys are serious.
They reccon big brother earned 1 billion in Belgium alone and everyone will want to watch this.

Can you imagine the exposure if a LE person was on that trip.

[Lazarus Long]

The logistics of getting to a reasonably sized near Earth asteroid are billions of dollars cheaper. It doesn't have to be a death sentence and support is more available. There is even a recent start up company focused on mining asteroids that they could work with.

I would rather see this approach initially than an underfunded Mars debacle.

[Logic]

Ah. Interesting stuff!

And because of the low gravity one could return to earth easily.
The permanent low gravity would have bad effects on one's body though. Non-one is sure what these effects will be in Mars's 1/3 gravity.

[Lazarus Long]

Once the habitat is established spin the whole asteroid with large pinwheel solar sails and get artificial gravity that is slowly increased to better than 1/3 Earth.

I have actually given this a lot of thought and written a little about it. Find my short story the Meme Makers in the creative section.

I don't just want to mine the asteroid, I want to build a spaceliner capable of transporting hundreds of colonists at a time once the rock is mined out.

[robomoon]

Earlier posts related to this topic at http://www.longecity...post__p__518251 and further responses below the above linked post.

[Logic]

Thx robomoon.

How do you link to a certain post like that?

[Lazarus Long]

Thx robomoon.

How do you link to a certain post like that?

Do you see the little number in the upper right hand corner?

Use the link embedded there to reference a specific post.

[Logic]

Thx!

If mars is colonised; the brightest and best will be colonising it.
Their science, politics and religion will be way superior to earth's.
They will declare independance at some point and leave earth people feeling inferior and wondering if the status quo here is all a crock of shit.
What do you think the powers that be's reaction to thinking about this will be?
I see plans being sabotaged?

[Lazarus Long]

So Logic you have been reading Kim Stanley Robinson's "Red Mars" series. If not you should. http://en.wikipedia....ki/Mars_trilogy

We are still 2 or 3 generations (maybe even more) away from full fledged colonization of Mars (along with terraforming) and population pressure on Earth will never be relieved sufficiently by off world colonization in time. We are doubling every generation now, though we are seeing a probable leveling at 14 billion for a variety of reasons.

I want to see off world colonization expanded beyond Mars alone and that is why we need ships capable of accomplishing it as well as the Space Elevator built on both the Earth AND the Moon. In fact the Moon's elevator should be first as a politically neutral prototype. We need a space based infrastructure that does not exist and isn't on any nation's budgetary profile at the moment.

I think we will move off shore into coastal ocean plains over the next two generations to relieve population pressure on land and that will also provide the first generation of real (ready) off world colonists.

Edited by Lazarus Long, 17 August 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[Logic]

You know... I did read that trilogy many years ago. There I was thinking that I had thought this through myself!

Getting people onto mars or an asteroid and filming it all would give impetus to whole movement, as would overpopulation.

Is Carbon Nanotube strong enough for space elivators?
Im under the impression it is not for earth?

[Lazarus Long]

You know... I did read that trilogy many years ago. There I was thinking that I had thought this through myself!

Getting people onto mars or an asteroid and filming it all would give impetus to whole movement, as would overpopulation.

Is Carbon Nanotube strong enough for space elivators?
Im under the impression it is not for earth?

Doing a Survivor scale dozen or so intrepid miners filmed establishing an asteroid base is good PR and a more practical mission. It also provides a spectacular payoff in the end when after a few years they bring the ship into naked eye visible orbit.

As for carbon nanotubes they could work for the Moon AND we would need one of those asteroids as the anchor rock at the Lagrange point. Plus orbiting a few smaller asteroid bases as transfer points around the Earth and Moon would help create the stepping stone infrastructure needed to effectively launch mass into heliocentric trajectories at very low cost.

[robomoon]

(shortened quote) ... your body would change quite a bit over the course of months or years on Mars, because the gravity is only 1/3 that of earth.

The travel would take time too, a traveller practically weightless. It looks as if people who want to look younger should prefer being weightless during a long travel to mars. http://www.guardian....-deformed-space citation: "... body fluid rises up, giving astronauts puffed-up faces and scrawny legs. One side effect is to reduce the wrinkles in their faces, making them look years younger in orbit."

Nobody wanting to travel towards mars likes to get scrawny legs and involuntary long-sightedness that have developed in microgravity. The German Aerospace Center (DLR) has already mentioned an eventual solution at http://www.dlr.de/me...398_read-14405/ that should be the simulation of naturally earth bound situations of trampoline jumping. But there's no hint on that page how to protect mars travellers from bumping their heads on the walls after lifting off from a trampoline.

If I had to travel to mars - only if nobody needs me on the moon or an asteroid - I would fix a trampoline with screws on an inner wall of the space capsule when there's enough space before the opposite wall. Then I would attach two rubber bands, one to the left and one to the right side of the trampoline. The ends of the rubber bands that are opposite to those attached to the trampoline should be equipped with some kind of soft cushioned carabiners. May I have to wear a harness to hook in the carabiners. It might be better to test if a surfing harness will be more appropriate than a mountain climbing one. Also the other equipment like rubber bands and the trampoline itself should be tested.

Actually I'm not too enthusiastic to make a sacrifice on my bed's slatted frame to test the trampoline concept immediately. I guess my bed be will crash after a only few jumps - due to normal gravity pulling me back - which is also a barrier for the whole "test bed".

[DAMABO]

I'm hoping that other competing companies will try to get their chance - so perhaps we can see even faster colonization. Has anybody heard of other companies trying to do something like this?

[orion602]

I want to see off world colonization expanded beyond Mars alone and that is why we need ships capable of accomplishing it as well as the Space Elevator built on both the Earth AND the Moon. In fact the Moon's elevator should be first as a politically neutral prototype. We need a space based infrastructure that does not exist and isn't on any nation's budgetary profile at the moment.

lets hope we will see some real progress soon: http://www.space.com...on-project.html

"About six months ago we had a fundamental breakthrough — a breakthrough we think will transform human civilization — and we want you to be a part of it," said Michael Laine, president of the LiftPort Group.

The breakthrough will allow the LiftPort group to build a space elevator on the moon using existing technology and a single-launch rocket solution that has "Sputnik-like simplicity," Laine said. He added that the concept could become a reality within eight years.

Any idea what kind of breakthrough hes talking about? I hope its not just fundraising talk

[robomoon]

(--shortened quote--)
... a single-launch rocket solution that has "Sputnik-like simplicity," ...

Any idea what kind of breakthrough hes talking about? I hope its not just fundraising talk

Those words are most likely fundraising talk, but perhaps I'm wrong and they are from honest people who got combined experience in, for e.g., information tech and hydrogen ballonet design. If they are honest, I guess they would have most likely figured out some special way to put circularly bent airbeams -- see the bent beam on the photo "Pressure Testing" at http://jpaerospace.com/blog/?p=698 -- into orbital balloons. See http://www.longecity...post__p__523012 describing a fairly compact chain of spheres, one above each other - just the scheme how those balloons should be attached above each other. A circularly bent airbeam would help to stretch the balloon hull before it is getting more inflated in higher altitude. An inner hydrogen gas ballonet could do wonders inside a balloon. A ballonet that will be kept on distance from the outer helium-inflated balloon fabric due to the helium-filled airbeam makes this concept viable during this helium shortage.

Edited by robomoon, 08 September 2012 - 10:03 PM.

[William.Lilt]

Is this really not a troll?

[robomoon]

Is this really not a troll?

Trymbols (symbols for a troll):

The | trymbol represents a piece of cable. Each can be attached to another.

The (|) trymbol represents a piece of cable surrounded by a trolloon (short term of "troll balloon").

The (@) trymbol represents a piece of cable surrounded by an inner ballonet and an outer trolloon.

The (_) trymbol represents a payload weighing 2 metric tons.

Graphotrollogy with trymbols:

(|)
|
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(@)
|
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(@)
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(@)
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Trolling:

A trolloon that is not wider than a football field remains in economically feasible dimensions.

A trolloon smaller but a football can carry 500 kilograms of payload higher than 20 miles, like http://news.softpedi...on-275679.shtml the bloon.

Balloon launched rockets are http://www.jpaerospa...m/rockoons.html Rockoons.

Trollback:

Citing the http://www.astronaut...lvs/rockoon.htm Encyclopedia Astronautica: One drawback to the rockoon was that it had to be fired before high-altitude winds carried it out of radio range.

Our trocket (short term of "troll rocket") needs a more distant radio range. Luckily no longer only a troll fantasy with today's information tech.

Trollation:



Not that I know how much the aerodynamic forces above 20 miles are, but they are lower than what most trolls got around. So a trocket launched above 20 miles can spare a viable amount of trocket fuel to accellerate beyond Mach 1 than a rocket launched below 1 mile above sea level.

Now, I don't provide an experts' calculation to confirm an altitude of 100 miles can be reachable with just a rockoon trocket weighing less than 2 metric tons. But doesn't it look quite feasible?

X
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The X trymbol represents 100 trolloons, one above the other. That could carry a very big trocket - one which exhaust fumes makes a troll drooling for moon candy.

[Cognitivo]

If someone should be connected to the Mars One mission it should be Prof. Neil Degrasse Tyson. You can find out why at StarTalk radio show, he's the man who can bring anything out in an interesting, humorous way. I've laughed my butt out when listening to his shows.

[Cognitivo]

One of our colleagues from our Astronomy club / planetarium here in Belgium has presented himself as a candidate for the Mars One mission and has also given us a couple of nice lectures about the whole thing.

[A941]

I wouldnt go, never!
They will run out of money and interest, and if you dont manage to grow things there, or something goes wrong you are f§$#ed.
It is not like colonizing certain parts of planet earth, a place where you at least can breath the air and find ways to survive, Mars is a hostile place, even low gravity will work against you.
if you want to colonize Mars you need to have a few Backup plans (B-Z), and Motivation, staying there for ever isnt one, cause it is a lifeless desert.

Personally I think it would be a good Idea to invest in an orbital elevator to be able to build large ships which could carry more people and equipement, i think it is very important to have a lot of space around you so you wont go insane after a few months.

[Jeoshua]

I would rather die in a failed attempt to colonize Mars, and go down in history
than die on Earth after a failed attempt to do anything notable with my life.

[A941]

There is much notable to do here, I think there are more notable things to do here than on mars at this moment in time, and with this sort of backing.

[Jeoshua]

You miss my point. What would be more notable than being part of the first manned mission to another planet? What, on Earth, could possibly be that monumental?

[A941]

-Creating Nanomachines
-Finding a Cure for Ageing
-Discover how to manage Fusion on earth
-Building an AI

These things would be far more monumental then just building a few huts on Mars for fun.

Yes exploring Mars is important, but for me it looks like these People dont really have an idea what to do.
It looks like they are planing a reality Show, and they have figured out that bringing people back would be to expensive, so it is a one way trip to TV-Hell.

Personally I would like to see the Mars-Direct-Mission happening, it is a far better Idea, maybe this could be crowdfunded ($50 Billion).

[Luminosity]

Can we nominate others?  Why only four?  I have a lot more.