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Anything that repairs tissue&deep tissue?

hormones+supplements etc...

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#1 Brainfogged

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:52 AM


I have some scarring and deep tissue damage. I can sense the cartilage and muscle scarring around these areas.

I was thinking that perhaps hormones such as HGH, steroids, HCG and proper supplements could help me out?

Also I've heard great about nandrolone/Anavar and their tissue healing properties.

What do you guy's say? Do you know anything????

Edited by Brainfogged, 21 September 2012 - 05:03 AM.

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#2 Luminosity

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:14 AM

I would stay away from steroids and hormones. I would also stay away from anything that fogs your brain.
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#3 malden

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 06:50 AM

And especiali nandrolone, this stuf can give you long term problems in to many ways. (it has taken 2 years before i was fully recoverded from nandrolone..)

if you realy want to go to the way of steriods, maybe you could waith or do more research to tinks like

ostarine
sarm s4 (tis stuf is great onl thing i have tried)
thymosin beta 4

maybe soom mk7/ k2 to get calsium deposids out of tisseu
of just get soms arinine to boost NO
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#4 Brainfogged

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:10 PM

And especiali nandrolone, this stuf can give you long term problems in to many ways. (it has taken 2 years before i was fully recoverded from nandrolone..)

if you realy want to go to the way of steriods, maybe you could waith or do more research to tinks like

ostarine
sarm s4 (tis stuf is great onl thing i have tried)
thymosin beta 4

maybe soom mk7/ k2 to get calsium deposids out of tisseu
of just get soms arinine to boost NO


How did Nandrolone affect you negatively?

The nandrolne/oxandralone combo has been recommended, (nandrolone 1.5mg-2mg/kg) and oxandralone (low dosage) for rehab and soft tissue healing because of it's low side- effect profile. These compounds are somewhat easily attainable also. Yes, the metabolite of nandrolone sucks (18months) which can easily discourage one from going to a well monitored gym. But hey, if it makes one heal old injuries that doesn't want to quit. I think it's worth it.

The stuff you mention are kind of new to me! In which way do you find them being better and how is the side effect profile? Although (mk7/ k2) sounds interesting, (Ca) deposits is one of my issues.

BTW: What injuries do you have, are you an athlete?
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#5 nowayout

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:47 PM

There was a rodent study that found that nandrolone weakened tendons compared to placebo.
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#6 Brainfogged

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 10:42 PM

There was a rodent study that found that nandrolone weakened tendons compared to placebo.


yes. Ive read the study, they used a different kind of injections. The study is not relevant when injecting in to the muscle. Besides, this is for rehab, not bb. Surely excess strength on weak joints will damage the joint, tissue, ligaments even further. But that is not my approach.
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#7 malden

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:26 AM


And especiali nandrolone, this stuf can give you long term problems in to many ways. (it has taken 2 years before i was fully recoverded from nandrolone..)

if you realy want to go to the way of steriods, maybe you could waith or do more research to tinks like

ostarine
sarm s4 (tis stuf is great onl thing i have tried)
thymosin beta 4

maybe soom mk7/ k2 to get calsium deposids out of tisseu
of just get soms arinine to boost NO


How did Nandrolone affect you negatively?

The nandrolne/oxandralone combo has been recommended, (nandrolone 1.5mg-2mg/kg) and oxandralone (low dosage) for rehab and soft tissue healing because of it's low side- effect profile. These compounds are somewhat easily attainable also. Yes, the metabolite of nandrolone sucks (18months) which can easily discourage one from going to a well monitored gym. But hey, if it makes one heal old injuries that doesn't want to quit. I think it's worth it.

The stuff you mention are kind of new to me! In which way do you find them being better and how is the side effect profile? Although (mk7/ k2) sounds interesting, (Ca) deposits is one of my issues.

BTW: What injuries do you have, are you an athlete?



- yes i was an atlethe before my stupid action to take deca at 200mg plus 500mg test 5 years ago.
- on cycle it was good for my muscles, but after the problems came, anxiety depresion muscle pain.
- alsow i get acne, there i have used accutane for... then the circle was completed im was screwed. and so im here.. after 5 years still to get me back om my old training+ health level
-multiple blood test done estrogen en prolactin issues brain fog ect.
- on bodybuilding forums they say: deca you love it or you hate it,

-the other things ive mention are not an 19 nor steriod and dont have an large pressure at the htpa.
in my opinion its verry importend to let your own hormones intact.
- in fact the newer sarms dont have an large side effect profile

60mg of nandrolone is stil verry supresive+ oxandrolone alsow. recovery can take more than a half year of that ammount

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21884791

go give yourself an good read aboud deca, i think it dont its wort it. over 20 years peaple are taking a laf that we have used raw hormones)steriods. because there a some much better thinks underway for muscle repair sarms/peps/genedoping ect


things you coucd consider that have helped me a lot, as we speak of muscle repair.

reduce muscle stress
(i now it isend desined for this but, idebenone word great for the muscles in low doses i cap EOD or so, alsow recomend it to frends of my and they are telling the same)
reduce neuro musclulair muscle tonus
(if there is an problem tr to balance this out, if the muscle tone is to high muscle get sore easely)
flow/blood
ginko or for in my case vinpocetine works better, food stuf like vitamin k/2 mk4 mk7 niacim (astragalus as an heat tnoicum)
eating some carlic every day. put in omega 3 vitamin d


+ plus af coure good balanced exersize :)

o dont now if you heve already done this, ? ist just my advize. realy think good before you go on deca.
btw i just roll out of bed en then ive make this post, grammer wil sucks big time

all the best
Greets malden
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#8 nowayout

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:30 PM


There was a rodent study that found that nandrolone weakened tendons compared to placebo.


yes. Ive read the study, they used a different kind of injections. The study is not relevant when injecting in to the muscle. Besides, this is for rehab, not bb. Surely excess strength on weak joints will damage the joint, tissue, ligaments even further. But that is not my approach.


How is BB relevant? The rabbits whose tendons weakened in the nandrolone study were not doing bodybuilding.
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#9 1kgcoffee

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:14 PM

Maybe try a brief period of fasting/half-fast/juice-fast?
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#10 Brainfogged

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 08:36 PM



There was a rodent study that found that nandrolone weakened tendons compared to placebo.


yes. Ive read the study, they used a different kind of injections. The study is not relevant when injecting in to the muscle. Besides, this is for rehab, not bb. Surely excess strength on weak joints will damage the joint, tissue, ligaments even further. But that is not my approach.


How is BB relevant? The rabbits whose tendons weakened in the nandrolone study were not doing bodybuilding.

Fuck the rats. The nandrolone injkections were done directly in to their joints. I have never heard nandrolone being used like that in human trials.

What I am trying to say is that further strength training will damage MY joints even further. I just threw that one out there.
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#11 Brainfogged

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 08:42 PM



And especiali nandrolone, this stuf can give you long term problems in to many ways. (it has taken 2 years before i was fully recoverded from nandrolone..)

if you realy want to go to the way of steriods, maybe you could waith or do more research to tinks like

ostarine
sarm s4 (tis stuf is great onl thing i have tried)
thymosin beta 4

maybe soom mk7/ k2 to get calsium deposids out of tisseu
of just get soms arinine to boost NO


How did Nandrolone affect you negatively?

The nandrolne/oxandralone combo has been recommended, (nandrolone 1.5mg-2mg/kg) and oxandralone (low dosage) for rehab and soft tissue healing because of it's low side- effect profile. These compounds are somewhat easily attainable also. Yes, the metabolite of nandrolone sucks (18months) which can easily discourage one from going to a well monitored gym. But hey, if it makes one heal old injuries that doesn't want to quit. I think it's worth it.

The stuff you mention are kind of new to me! In which way do you find them being better and how is the side effect profile? Although (mk7/ k2) sounds interesting, (Ca) deposits is one of my issues.

BTW: What injuries do you have, are you an athlete?



- yes i was an atlethe before my stupid action to take deca at 200mg plus 500mg test 5 years ago.
- on cycle it was good for my muscles, but after the problems came, anxiety depresion muscle pain.
- alsow i get acne, there i have used accutane for... then the circle was completed im was screwed. and so im here.. after 5 years still to get me back om my old training+ health level
-multiple blood test done estrogen en prolactin issues brain fog ect.
- on bodybuilding forums they say: deca you love it or you hate it,

-the other things ive mention are not an 19 nor steriod and dont have an large pressure at the htpa.
in my opinion its verry importend to let your own hormones intact.
- in fact the newer sarms dont have an large side effect profile

60mg of nandrolone is stil verry supresive+ oxandrolone alsow. recovery can take more than a half year of that ammount

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21884791

go give yourself an good read aboud deca, i think it dont its wort it. over 20 years peaple are taking a laf that we have used raw hormones)steriods. because there a some much better thinks underway for muscle repair sarms/peps/genedoping ect


things you coucd consider that have helped me a lot, as we speak of muscle repair.

reduce muscle stress
(i now it isend desined for this but, idebenone word great for the muscles in low doses i cap EOD or so, alsow recomend it to frends of my and they are telling the same)
reduce neuro musclulair muscle tonus
(if there is an problem tr to balance this out, if the muscle tone is to high muscle get sore easely)
flow/blood
ginko or for in my case vinpocetine works better, food stuf like vitamin k/2 mk4 mk7 niacim (astragalus as an heat tnoicum)
eating some carlic every day. put in omega 3 vitamin d


+ plus af coure good balanced exersize :)

o dont now if you heve already done this, ? ist just my advize. realy think good before you go on deca.
btw i just roll out of bed en then ive make this post, grammer wil sucks big time

all the best
Greets malden


Accutane, I wouldn't touch that stuff with a stick. But I think testosterone was your main issue for you acne. Nandrolone is a low androgen and shouldn't cause as much acne as other t-esters. Also 500mg T and 200mg deca sounds like a but too much for a beginner. Did you use HCG after your cycle?

Sure I am studying a lot before this and still thinking if it's worth it. But I have been off 5 years from my training also and I am tired of these injuries.
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#12 nowayout

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:03 AM

I believe using nandrolone (deca) for healing of connective tissue would be a mistake, based on the following studies, showing nandrolone to be detrimental to healing of tendons. Muscle injuries may be a different story.

J Invest Surg. 2010 Aug;23(4):204-7.
The effect of local use of nandrolone decanoate on rotator cuff repair in rabbits.

Papaspiliopoulos A, Papaparaskeva K, Papadopoulou E, Feroussis J, Papalois A, Zoubos A.

Source

8th Orthopeadic Department-Shoulder Service, Asklepeion General Hospital, Voula, Athens, Greece. athospap@gmail.com

Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

There is still controversy about the effect of anabolic steroid on connective tissue. This study examines the hypothesis that the local use of nandrolone decanoate, an anabolic steroid on rotator cuff, facilitates the healing process when used in combination with surgical repair.
METHODS:

Forty-eight male rabbits were divided in four groups with anabolic steroids (Nandrolone Decanoate 10 mg/kg) and immobilization as variables. The groups were the following: first group, nonsteroid use-immobilization (NSI); second group, nonsteroid use-nonimmobilization (NSNI); third group, steroid use-immobilization (SI); fourth group steroid use-nonimmobilization (SNI). Every rabbit underwent a rotator cuff incision and reconstruction. Fifteen days later the tendons were sent for biomechanical and histological evaluation.
RESULTS:

Groups that did not receive anabolic steroids showed better healing and more tendon strength in comparison to groups that received anabolic steroids. Microscopic examination of specimens from the groups without the use of anabolic steroid showed extensive fibroblastic activity whereas the specimens from those groups with anabolic steroid use showed focal fibroblastic reaction and inflammation. Immobilization provided better results in the groups with anabolic steroid use but it did not influence healing in groups without steroids.
CONCLUSIONS:

The effect of local nandrolone decanoate use on a rotator cuff tear is detrimental, acting as a healing inhibitor.


The following article also used nandrolone (as described in full text version).

Scand J Med Sci Sports. 2011 Dec;21(6):e91-9. doi: 10.1111/j.1600-0838.2010.01162.x. Epub 2010 Jul 29.
Biomechanical responses of different rat tendons to nandrolone decanoate and load exercise.

Marqueti RC, Prestes J, Wang CC, Ramos OH, Perez SE, Nakagaki WR, Carvalho HF, Selistre-de-Araujo HS.

Source

Department of Physiological Sciences, Federal University of São Carlos, São Carlos, SP, Brazil.
Abstract

Androgenic-anabolic steroids (AAS) have been associated with an increased incidence of tendon rupture. The aim of this study was to compare the biomechanical properties of the rat calcaneal tendon (CT), superficial flexor tendon (SFT), and deep flexor tendon (DFT), and to determine the effect of jump training in association with AAS. Animals were separated into four groups: sedentary, trained, AAS-treated sedentary rats (AAS), and AAS-treated and trained animals. Mechanical testing showed that the CT differed from the DFT and SFT, which showed similar mechanical properties. Jump caused the CT to exhibit an extended toe region, an increased resistance to tensional load, and a decreased elastic modulus, characteristics of an elastic tendon capable of storing energy. AAS caused the tendons to be less compliant, and the effects were reinforced by simultaneous training. The DFT was the most affected by training, AAS, and the interaction of both, likely because of its involvement in the toe-off step of jumping, which we suggest is related to the rapid transmission of force as opposed to energy storage. In conclusion, tendons are differently adapted to exercise, but responded equally to AAS, showing reduced flexibility, which is suggested to increase the risk of tendon rupture in AAS consumers.


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#13 Brainfogged

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:09 AM

I believe using nandrolone (deca) for healing of connective tissue would be a mistake, based on the following studies, showing nandrolone to be detrimental to healing of tendons. Muscle injuries may be a different story.


Rabbits: This study examines the hypothesis that the local use of nandrolone decanoate....

They used local administration with different steroids in these trials. Nandrolone doesn't have any local properties.

Rats:

which we suggest is related to the rapid transmission of force as opposed to energy storage. In conclusion, tendons are differently adapted to exercise, but responded equally to AAS, showing reduced flexibility, which is suggested to increase the risk of tendon rupture in AAS consumers.


Again I am not going to put further force on my ligaments with strenuous training.

Edited by Brainfogged, 25 September 2012 - 01:10 AM.

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#14 malden

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:59 AM




And especiali nandrolone, this stuf can give you long term problems in to many ways. (it has taken 2 years before i was fully recoverded from nandrolone..)

if you realy want to go to the way of steriods, maybe you could waith or do more research to tinks like

ostarine
sarm s4 (tis stuf is great onl thing i have tried)
thymosin beta 4

maybe soom mk7/ k2 to get calsium deposids out of tisseu
of just get soms arinine to boost NO


How did Nandrolone affect you negatively?

The nandrolne/oxandralone combo has been recommended, (nandrolone 1.5mg-2mg/kg) and oxandralone (low dosage) for rehab and soft tissue healing because of it's low side- effect profile. These compounds are somewhat easily attainable also. Yes, the metabolite of nandrolone sucks (18months) which can easily discourage one from going to a well monitored gym. But hey, if it makes one heal old injuries that doesn't want to quit. I think it's worth it.

The stuff you mention are kind of new to me! In which way do you find them being better and how is the side effect profile? Although (mk7/ k2) sounds interesting, (Ca) deposits is one of my issues.

BTW: What injuries do you have, are you an athlete?



- yes i was an atlethe before my stupid action to take deca at 200mg plus 500mg test 5 years ago.
- on cycle it was good for my muscles, but after the problems came, anxiety depresion muscle pain.
- alsow i get acne, there i have used accutane for... then the circle was completed im was screwed. and so im here.. after 5 years still to get me back om my old training+ health level
-multiple blood test done estrogen en prolactin issues brain fog ect.
- on bodybuilding forums they say: deca you love it or you hate it,

-the other things ive mention are not an 19 nor steriod and dont have an large pressure at the htpa.
in my opinion its verry importend to let your own hormones intact.
- in fact the newer sarms dont have an large side effect profile

60mg of nandrolone is stil verry supresive+ oxandrolone alsow. recovery can take more than a half year of that ammount

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21884791

go give yourself an good read aboud deca, i think it dont its wort it. over 20 years peaple are taking a laf that we have used raw hormones)steriods. because there a some much better thinks underway for muscle repair sarms/peps/genedoping ect


things you coucd consider that have helped me a lot, as we speak of muscle repair.

reduce muscle stress
(i now it isend desined for this but, idebenone word great for the muscles in low doses i cap EOD or so, alsow recomend it to frends of my and they are telling the same)
reduce neuro musclulair muscle tonus
(if there is an problem tr to balance this out, if the muscle tone is to high muscle get sore easely)
flow/blood
ginko or for in my case vinpocetine works better, food stuf like vitamin k/2 mk4 mk7 niacim (astragalus as an heat tnoicum)
eating some carlic every day. put in omega 3 vitamin d


+ plus af coure good balanced exersize :)

o dont now if you heve already done this, ? ist just my advize. realy think good before you go on deca.
btw i just roll out of bed en then ive make this post, grammer wil sucks big time

all the best
Greets malden


Accutane, I wouldn't touch that stuff with a stick. But I think testosterone was your main issue for you acne. Nandrolone is a low androgen and shouldn't cause as much acne as other t-esters. Also 500mg T and 200mg deca sounds like a but too much for a beginner. Did you use HCG after your cycle?

Sure I am studying a lot before this and still thinking if it's worth it. But I have been off 5 years from my training also and I am tired of these injuries.



Acne on cycle yes, but acne after cycle is due to the shutdown of the hpta, acne vulgaris...google it and thats why they give my accutane.
pct was hcg nolva clomid aromasin.
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#15 nowayout

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:02 PM


I believe using nandrolone (deca) for healing of connective tissue would be a mistake, based on the following studies, showing nandrolone to be detrimental to healing of tendons. Muscle injuries may be a different story.


Rabbits: This study examines the hypothesis that the local use of nandrolone decanoate....

They used local administration with different steroids in these trials. Nandrolone doesn't have any local properties.

Rats:

which we suggest is related to the rapid transmission of force as opposed to energy storage. In conclusion, tendons are differently adapted to exercise, but responded equally to AAS, showing reduced flexibility, which is suggested to increase the risk of tendon rupture in AAS consumers.


Again I am not going to put further force on my ligaments with strenuous training.


I think you are confused with a different study. There are various rodent studies. These are not the study you are thinking of. These studies did not inject nandrolone locally into the tendon as far as I am aware.

Also, in the first study, healing was inhibited ALSO in the sedentary and immobilized group compared to controls, so I don't think your objection that you are not stressing the tendons is relevant there. Your objection is also not relevant in the second study, since they are talking about reduced flexibility of the tendon AFTER healing (that occurred whether or not the tendon was stressed during healing). This reduced flexibility of the HEALED tendon then leads to higher probability of rupture during exercise AFTER you are already healed.
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#16 Brainfogged

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:56 PM



I believe using nandrolone (deca) for healing of connective tissue would be a mistake, based on the following studies, showing nandrolone to be detrimental to healing of tendons. Muscle injuries may be a different story.


Rabbits: This study examines the hypothesis that the local use of nandrolone decanoate....

They used local administration with different steroids in these trials. Nandrolone doesn't have any local properties.

Rats:

which we suggest is related to the rapid transmission of force as opposed to energy storage. In conclusion, tendons are differently adapted to exercise, but responded equally to AAS, showing reduced flexibility, which is suggested to increase the risk of tendon rupture in AAS consumers.


Again I am not going to put further force on my ligaments with strenuous training.


I think you are confused with a different study. There are various rodent studies. These are not the study you are thinking of. These studies did not inject nandrolone locally into the tendon as far as I am aware.

Also, in the first study, healing was inhibited ALSO in the sedentary and immobilized group compared to controls, so I don't think your objection that you are not stressing the tendons is relevant there. Your objection is also not relevant in the second study, since they are talking about reduced flexibility of the tendon AFTER healing (that occurred whether or not the tendon was stressed during healing). This reduced flexibility of the HEALED tendon then leads to higher probability of rupture during exercise AFTER you are already healed.


The study YOU linked to says local use of nandrolone.

The reduced flexibility was due to excess force while administering steroid compounds. They wore out the tendons to see if Nandrolone could be used as a protective agent against tendon damage. What your study is stating is that excess force with the use of nandrolone which in turn puts muscle's in a anabolic state, doesn't protect against strenuous ligament/tendon damage but rather damages them even further. This isn't applicable in rehab.
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