29 replies to this topic

[alecnevsky]

I have both in authentic Russian pill version but have only tried each separately. Seeing as I want to maximize the efficacy while minimizing cost, I am interested in mixing both.

I've used Phenylpiracetam on top of my daily alcar+gpc+tyrosine+ciltep+creatine+dha+methylb12 stack for about 5 days with great success in terms of vitality, focus and stamina (for study and workout purposes.) Insofar as Phenyl. vs Pram + Ani + Sulb + Tau goes, I'd have to go with the former in terms of efficacy overall, although I may be biased since I find encapsulating a daunting task. I've yet to to mix the Phenyl. with my mentioned racetam stack (could be fun.) So far I've concluded that Pram+Ani+Sulb+Tau does not yield an effect proportionate to its price as opposed to just ordering a 30 pack of phenylpiracetam for $35 and having a month supply on the racetam side. (I order through a colleague in NY so I don't know where he gets it.)

Couple notes: ALCAR+GPC+Tyrosine+CILTEP+Phenyl.+caffeine mixes wonderfully! If you're looking for a better adderall substitute (in terms of focus only, not "motivation"-- for that, I reason, you have to have good enough stimuli;) In general, this is as closest as I've come after much undue expansion of resources (lol.) My understanding is that most of the stuff mentioned is generally harmless and is a nutrient (for Alcar see age-dependent dose recommendations. I also chose not to supplement with ALA.) What I'll probably do is continue taking everything above and just cap TAU to mix with my DHA+GPC and entirely disregard little researched Pram (never tasted/smelt anything worse) Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine. What I'll do instead is get a B-complex and mix that with my Methylcobalamin B12 to essentially recreate my own "Sulbutiamine" and get some caffeine pills. At that point I should close to approaching a "5hr energy" recipe.

Currently, I am in my 2nd day of testing Noopept entirely alone. And, incidentally, it's the 2nd day I've been getting strange (tension?) headaches towards the top rear part of my head. I am not on anything but creatine, DHA, Vit D and Noopept right now so I have to rule out "choline induced tension" (never even had that) and I never get creatine headaches. I've never experienced this, save for the time I dosed too much Adderall with Pram and Tyrosine (lol.) I am going to take Noopept for one more day probably but will discontinue if headaches persist as my semester is coming to an end and I need to have my shit together. Anyway, if Noopept works out for me, I will then mix both Phenylpiracetam + Noopept and report back. My question is to people who have tried mixing these chemicals or to anyone with appropriate education who can see any potential contraindications.


Edit: I couldn't bare the noopept headache so I took like 1.5grams of my prop mix of Alcar + GPC + Tyrosine, hoping the tension goes away. I am disappointed I can't even trial this without needing something else. (I took this because I've read the choline helps.)

Edited by alecnevsky, 18 November 2012 - 12:06 PM.

[@now]

Like I posted in the noopept and aniracetam thread: pram+noopept+GPC successfully and side-effect free. Dosing is important, e.g. the "sweet spot". For me that seems to be 300mg pram+300mg GPC+10mg noopept (AM), and 10mg noopept + optionally 300mg GPC around lunch (cycled with nothing periodically)

[alecnevsky]

Right, thanks. Nonetheless, I think I ran into a more fundamental problem here: Noopept is kind of crazy for me so far. I feel like I'm tripping and my right brain function (my target) seems to be significantly debilitated unlike with phenylpiracetam (where it's noticeably potentiated.) I am not looking for any "amazing" effects, but rather brute memorization and problem solving. So far, as expected, noopept does not seem conducive to these ends. I actually did expect exactly this --so I don't know why I am even surprised. Headaches, while subsided after dosing choline, are still noticeably present (top rear head.) I have a notion that the Russian version of Noopept, is indeed for traumatic brain injuries and is unfit for relatively healthy individuals.

Edited by alecnevsky, 18 November 2012 - 07:12 PM.

[alecnevsky]

Edit: meant to say left-brain function! Analytical, logic, problem solving part is truly hazy, however writing/creativity seems to be a breeze when it comes to this etc.

[alecnevsky]

BUMP: I took 60mg Ginkgo with Ginseng500mg+CILTEP+Alcar550mg + GPC400mg + Tyrosine550mg + Pram300mg +Ani750mg + Sulb300mg + Tau50mg + 100mg Caffeine + 100mg Phenylpiracetam and it's the closest I've ever felt to an adderall. Is this dangerous? I understand Ginkgo is a nonselective MAOI... but I am not sure whether I should be concerned about the effects of blood pressure etc. at these doses. Has my stack become [ironically] worse than adderall? Anyone?

Edited by alecnevsky, 19 November 2012 - 08:10 PM.

[dsohei]

Funny how you think problem solving is done with the left brain.

[alecnevsky]

Not that it's relevant, but I suppose it depends on the kind of problems I solve.

UPDATE: I've been testing out this stack and it seems to be pretty legit. Great energy, stamina and clearheadedness without the infamous side effects of adderall.

[dsohei]

It is relevant, and has nothing to do with types of problems. All problem solving is creative right brain dominant.

[dsohei]

BUMP: I took 60mg Ginkgo with Ginseng500mg+CILTEP+Alcar550mg + GPC400mg + Tyrosine550mg + Pram300mg +Ani750mg + Sulb300mg + Tau50mg + 100mg Caffeine + 100mg Phenylpiracetam and it's the closest I've ever felt to an adderall. Is this dangerous? I understand Ginkgo is a nonselective MAOI... but I am not sure whether I should be concerned about the effects of blood pressure etc. at these doses. Has my stack become [ironically] worse than adderall? Anyone?

The only real issue is possible liver toxicity, or overloaded dopamine receptors. Ginkgo, ginseng, gpc, small amounts of caffeine can be taken continuously with little or no problems. Tyrosine and alcar may need to be cycled. The other noots I feel are too individual, new, or I just don't have enough experience to comment

[alecnevsky]

I suppose, in my feedback on Noopept, what I tried to say, is that the depth of computation (think: sudoku) is either impaired or given to creative ways of problem solving which is not immediately useful in problems of applied math etc. Now it's interesting you point out that problem solving conception is entirely a right brain phenomenon because I read recently that drinking a little beer also increases the problem solving function in males. Drinking beer however does not help with computation so I would imagine taking Noopept would not either if they affect same parts of the brain. But again, this is just a somewhat inconclusive and speculative first person impression.

[alecnevsky]

I thought this was relevant: first study is on actual patients

"Abstract
Ninety-nine patients with encephalopathy developed in the remote period after acute lesions of cerebral blood circulation, brain traumas and cerebral gliomas surgery have been studied. Phenotropil was used in a dosage of 200 mg per day during one month. A CT survey revealed that in a stable state of brain changes phenotropil exerted the mostly pronounced influence on movement disturbances: decreased an extent of pareses in limb and face muscles, improved motor coordination, higher brain functions, memory, attention, counting. Patients exhibited higher mobility and daily activity, along with lower discomfort, anxiety and depression. EEG study showed more intensive alpha- and beta-rhythms, a decrease of paroxysmal activity and slow waves as well as a general tendency to its normalization."

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16447562


"Abstract

Exploratory behavior, locomotor activity, and anxiety in inbred mice of C57BL/6 and BALB/c strains subchronically treated with placebo or various types of nootropic (cognition enhancing) drugs (piracetam, phenotropil, noopept, semax, pantogam, nooglutil) have been evaluated using the exploratory cross-maze test. It was found that BALB/c mice in comparison to C57BL/6 mice are characterized by greater anxiety and lower efficiency of exploratory behavior in the previously unfamiliar environment. All tested drugs clearly improved the exploratory behavior in BALB/c mice only. In BALB/c mice, piracetam, phenotropil, noopept, and semax also reduced anxiety, while phenotropil additionally increased locomotor activity. Thus, the nootropic drugs displayed clear positive modulation of spontaneous orientation in the mice strain with initially low exploratory efficiency (BALB/c) in the cross-maze test. Some drugs (pantogam, nooglutil) exhibited only nootropic properties, while the other drugs exhibited both nootropic effects on the exploratory activity and produced modulation of the anxiety level (piracetam, fenotropil, noopept, semax) and locomotor activity (fenotropil)."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23025044


"Abstract

We studied the effect of phenotropil (25 mg/kg intraperitoneally, 5 days) on the immune and psychoemotional state of Wistar rats with LPS-induced immune stress. Hyperactivity of the immune system in animals after treatment with Pseudomonas aeruginosa LPS (100 μg/kg intraperitoneally, 3 days) manifested in a significant increase in the delayed-type hypersensitivity index, antibody titer in the reaction of passive hemagglutination, and phagocytic activity of peripheral blood neutrophils. Locomotor, orientation, and exploratory activities were reduced, while anxiety increased in animals with immune stress. Phenotropil exhibited the psychoimmunomodulatory effect under these conditions, which manifested in prevention of anxiety and fear response, increase in horizontal locomotion and exploratory behavior, and improvement of immunoreactivity."

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22442801

"
Abstract

Phenotropil [N-carbamoylmethyl-4-aryl-2-pyrrolidone (2-(2-oxo-4-phenyl-pyrrolidin-1-yl) acetamide; carphedon)] is clinically used in its racemic form as a nootropic drug that improves physical condition and cognition. The aim of this study was to compare the stereoselective pharmacological activity of R- and S-enantiomers of phenotropil in different behavioural tests. Racemic phenotropil and its enantiomers were tested for locomotor, antidepressant and memory-improving activity and influence on the central nervous system (CNS) using general pharmacological tests in mice. After a single administration, the amount of compound in brain tissue extracts was determined using an ultra performance liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry (UPLC/MS/MS) method in a positive ion electrospray mode. In the open-field test, a significant increase in locomotor activity was observed after a single administration of R-phenotropil at doses of 10 and 50 mg/kg and S-phenotropil at a dose of 50 mg/kg. In the forced swim test, R-phenotropil induced an antidepressant effect at doses of 100 and 50 mg/kg, and S-phenotropil was active at a dose of 100 mg/kg. R-phenotropil significantly enhanced memory function in a passive avoidance response test at a dose of 1 mg/kg; the S-enantiomer did not show any activity in this test. However, the concentrations of R- and S-phenotropils in brain tissue were similar. In conclusion, the antidepressant and increased locomotor activity relies on both R- and S-phenotropils, but the memory-improving activity is only characteristic of R-phenotropil. These results may be important for the clinical use of optically pure isomers of phenotropil."

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21689376

I wonder if the improvement of locomotor activity and "exploratory activity" could be linked to dopaminergic properties in phenylpiracetam more so than in other racetams... That would explain the "phenyl" group. Hmm.

Also, anyone know the difference between the R- and S- phenotropil? I wonder what kind the one I am taking is...

As far as my subjective experiences -- I definitely like phenylpiracetam better than noopept (these are both russian pharma pill versions.) I definitely felt more active and coherent on phenyl. than I did on noopept, the latter just made me feel kind of trippy. Prices make sense also (russian phenyl being 3 times more expensive than noopept.)

Edited by alecnevsky, 25 November 2012 - 03:53 AM.

[alecnevsky]

Nevermind, I just answered my own question: "piracetam and phenylpiracetam increase the dopamine and noradrenaline content in the brain... induces an increase in densities of NMDA receptors... and D3 dopamine receptors in the striatum." also "Phenotropil considerably increased the density of dopamine D2 and D3 receptors by 29% and 62%, respectively."
http://resources.met...05&size=largest

While "aniracetam potentiated nicotinic acetylcholine receptors" and nothing was said of Dopamine. This may explain why I can crash easily on aniracetam + pram. more so than phenylpiracetam. Although evidence is generally inconclusive insofar as receptor density, it seems that dopamine concentration could be explained by the recreated locomotion effects in the studies I referenced above.

Edited by alecnevsky, 25 November 2012 - 05:21 AM.

[alecnevsky]

UPDATE: I took 200mg phenyl. (twice my normal dose) today on 5 hrs of sleep + 2g of my prop mix(750mg more than usual) with 120mg of Ginkgo (twice normal dose.) Indeed, I feel as if I slept all 9 hrs. I have to say, I've never experienced a similar effect with 300mg Pram+300mg Sulb+750mg Ani+80mg TAU. The extent of this clearheadedness and energy is only comparable to adderall (less the side effects.) Will keep the updates coming (especially on tolerance and dopamine receptor down-regulation--that is, if I can even observe any.) Cheers!

[@now]

Quality of phenylpiracetam differs - do you use the genuine Russian one (phenotropil)?

[alecnevsky]

Quality of phenylpiracetam differs - do you use the genuine Russian one (phenotropil)?

Yeah. I've been going strong for about 5hrs on 200mg + my prop mix.

[@now]

1x200mg or 2x100mg during the day?

[alecnevsky]

1x200mg or 2x100mg during the day?

Today's experiment was 1x200mg in the morning.

Usually, 2x100mg, but, since I had not slept too well, I wanted to test its adaptogenic properties. I am starting to wind down 7hrs after the dose -- dropping back to my under-slept baseline. Still, at least now, I can take a nap for 40 min and be set till 1 am. With adderall, I would have been a zombie with a high heart rate and in no condition to take a nap (assuming I'd take an equivalent 7hr dose.)

[@now]

Good to know. I sleep bad sometimes as well - I'll try one of these days and report back here to see if I can comfirm.

[alecnevsky]

I took 300mg yesterday in total. Slept very well. Took 100mg today and plan on taking 100mg in the afternoon. I am still doubling my ginkgo dose and my increasing my dopamine precursor dose by 750mg so today should be interesting!

[alecnevsky]

Alright, desperate times call for desperate measures: I am going on 17th hr of wakefulness and have a lot of work to do tonight. While phenylpiracetam worked flawlessly during the day in terms of focus and seemingly organic energy, the effects of its second administration in the PMs were subtle and led me to take inefficient naps, though I knew I still had some energy in store.

So! 1hr ago I took: 10mg Adderall + 100mg PP + 350mg Acetyl-L-Tyrosine+B Complex+Methylb12+150mg Caffeine via extra strong Tea on pretty much empty stomach then ate a banana. The banana was found to be crucial.. jk. I did not take any gingko as adderall is a dopamine and norepinephrine inhibitor.

Obviously, this is not something anyone should replicate; I do not endorse it and emphatically advise against it. But, nevertheless, I feel energized and coherent. Much more of the latter than would've been on 30mg of adderall by itself. Heart rate is low, no sweating or shaking, no anxiety or anything mental. Indeed, there is a significantly more "rush" in the head. This may be what overstimulation of dopamine receptors feels like., and, if so, it doesn't feel especially bad. I felt much worse on 30mg adderall overall, cognitively, mentally, emotionally and physically. Will update after I get this work done.

[alecnevsky]

In review, I probably should've stuck with one chemical. It wasn't "harmful" but it wasn't the most efficient stack I've ever put together. Seeing that I am going on like 36hrs of no sleep, I'll keep this short. In conclusion, I found PP to be a great focus-enhancer/stimulant during the day or in conditions of less than perfect sleep. Other than that, it is not a wakefulness promoter in a way that adderall is. I would limit intake of adderall to >18hr days. PP on the other hand is perfect for regular under-slept days with some cycling and additional supps. Mixing adderall and PP did not yield any "synergistic" effects. In fact, it seems like they prevented each others mechanism. This could however just be b/c i also took Acetyl-L-Tyrosine which probably brought my dopamine concentration up to an unfeasible level.

[@now]

I can only talk about PP but yes, it is possible to sleep on it. It only works if you do it every now and then, during daytime.

[BrainTweaked]

Hi .. i'm in my lunch break. A quick post on my experience with racetam and other noots. My wish ... a noot that can improve my ability to remember, retain and recall massive amounts of information with clarity and detail.

Piracetam ... made me irritable even at low dose 800 mg. Quit.

Aniracetam .. I think my body can't break down one of Ani's metabolites (can't recall which one) .Ended up sleepy whole day long.

Oxiracetam since August... speedy and made me edgy. Touted for its memory enhancing properties (PubMED articles) .... I megadosed 12 grams daily for 2 days in August. Aced an immunology paper but crashed the day after the exam day. (high grade fever for 2 days). Still taking 400-800 mg bd, (cycling) .. but the memory enhancing effect is subtle (if present at all)

Pramiracetam for 2 months. Loved this one. Gave me clearheadedness, purpose, improved my reading comprehension. For memory improvement .. subtle if any. Problem was.. developed recurring epigastric pain even on microdose 50 mg capped mixed with fish oil. Not risking developing peptic ulcer/gastritis. Had to stop.

Noopept since 1 month ago. Serene and calmness at megadose 100 mg and at microdose 2.5 mg. Able to think clearer .... really improved my verbal fluency. But hampers my reading comprehension at beyond microdose 2.5 - 3 mg .. some say due to impaired working memory (inhibition of pyramidal CA1 receptors). Still taking it at 3-5 mg twice daily, hoping that it does increase may BDNF .. and has an accumulative permanent effect on my brain capabilities.

Now I'm going for phenylpir ... but damn it's expensive.

Gotta go ..

Oh ya .. And Alpha GPC beyond 300 mg twice a day gives me brainfog. CDP choline after few days .... gave me depression.

[BrainTweaked]

And dark chocolate in my trial now .. based on this Sept 17 2012 article.

http://www.eurekaler...b-cms092012.php

[alecnevsky]

UPDATE:

200mg Modafinil (Modalert) + 100mg PP + my half-daily dose(I dose the following twice a day) of 660mg ALCAR+ 420mg GPC +900mg Tyrosine+ 1000mg Taurine+ 1 B complex+ 800mg DHA + 500mg ginseng + 120mg Gingko minus CILTEP is very fluid and clearheaded so far--much more so than any amphetamine I've ever taken. Notably, modafinil mixes with PP much better than adderall did. I am literally not experiencing any side effects or feeling crazy/emotional or in any way not in control. I am 5 hrs into 200mg modafinil dose administered twice --100mg dose (half) 5 hrs ago and 100mg dose 30 min ago. PP and my half-daily dose was taken 9hrs ago -- 4 hrs before first modafinil dose.

My expectations are generally fulfilled.

Next up: Armodafinil instead of Modafinil.

FYI: I also take 300mg Pram + 750mg Ani + 300mg Sulb + 80mg TAU (last two for DA modulation since I am on DA precursors+ psychostimulants) in caps at night before sleep. I do not foresee any sleep tonight however.

Edited by alecnevsky, 04 December 2012 - 07:11 AM.

[deh707]

UPDATE:

200mg Modafinil (Modalert) + 100mg PP + my half-daily dose(I dose the following twice a day) of 660mg ALCAR+ 420mg GPC +900mg Tyrosine+ 1000mg Taurine+ 1 B complex+ 800mg DHA + 500mg ginseng + 120mg Gingko minus CILTEP is very fluid and clearheaded so far--much more so than any amphetamine I've ever taken. Notably, modafinil mixes with PP much better than adderall did. I am literally not experiencing any side effects or feeling crazy/emotional or in any way not in control. I am 5 hrs into 200mg modafinil dose administered twice --100mg dose (half) 5 hrs ago and 100mg dose 30 min ago. PP and my half-daily dose was taken 9hrs ago -- 4 hrs before first modafinil dose.

My expectations are generally fulfilled.

Next up: Armodafinil instead of Modafinil.

FYI: I also take 300mg Pram + 750mg Ani + 300mg Sulb + 80mg TAU (last two for DA modulation since I am on DA precursors+ psychostimulants) in caps at night before sleep. I do not foresee any sleep tonight however.

Any update on Armodafinil?

I'm currently on 75mg Waklert (Armodafinil) + 2.4g piracetam + 500mg choline citrate with great results.

I also have Modalert (Modafinil), but I prefer Waklert due to a cleaner awakefulness feeling, and longer lasting compared to Modafinil.

I do not use Modafinil/Armodafinil everyday. More like 2-3 times a week, just one dose, at either half tablet or quarter tablet, never a full tablet.

The 4 supplements I dose everyday, 3 times a day: (choline just once a day)

2.4g Piracetam + 500mg choline + 100mg caffeine + 200mg theanine.

The above 4 seem to be the most common, long-term studied substances in the nootropic-world, and I'm satisfied with them.


I am interested in Phenylpiracetam, though.

Edited by deh707, 18 December 2012 - 11:06 PM.

[alecnevsky]

I wish I could rename this thread because it has nothing to do with noopept.

Anyway, the following are my subjective experiences with Armodafinil (Waklert,) Phenylpiracetam (Phenotropil) and Adderall (D-Amph. Salts XR generic.) and should not be misconstrued as advice. I had two trials both lasting 36hrs. First trial was: Armo+PP first 24hrs then Armo + PP + caffeine + tyrosine around the 24hr mark. Second trial was 9hrs [of sleep] after the first one where I dosed Armo+PP first 24hrs then Armo + Adderall around the 24hr mark. Doses of Armo were consistent throughout. Short conclusion: the second trial was better overall for cognitive performance and "mental health."

I am convinced that Armo is generally better than Modafinil (Modalert) in terms of clarity and strength whether it is mixed with PP (Phenotropil) or Adderall. I still haven't figured out whether Armo + PP is better than Armo + Adderall in non-sleep-deprived conditions-- they have different uses imo. I did however find that it is viable to mix Armo with Adderall or PP (note: earlier in the thread I found that mixing PP with Adderall is not "synergistic.") So, my impressions with some hypothesized moas:

Armo + PP: very stable for first 24 hrs. Improvements: clarity and comprehension (abstractions are easier to process and link via Armo's visuo-spacial potentiation) problem solving/strategic planning (Armo-induced spacial/time management,) physical stamina (PP-induced increased glucose metabolism,) consistency (no post-adderall DA crash,) stable emotional response (no amphetamine "ups" hence very little to no distractions/procrastination.) Limits: at the 24hr mark neither extra Armo nor extra PP doses were helpful for eliminating fatigue. Cognitive performance was stable and emotional response predictable but the body just started crashing (this is with reasonable caloric intake.)

Armo + Adderall: very good post 24hrs of wakefulness (I have not yet taken Armo+Adderall during 1st 24hrs.) Noticeable improvements to the last: Rev (virtually "brand-new" awake feeling: energy, stamina, consistency and problem solving similarly improved vis-a-vis Armo+PP post 24hrs.) Essentially, same benefits of Armo + PP minus the inevitable fatigue.

Personal conclusions based on about a week of trials: Armo + PP is very stable during the 1st 24hrs but the body inevitably becomes fatigued about the time you need to perform on the 2nd day. Armo + Adderall eliminates this fatigue post 24hrs and allows to perform for additional 12hrs before the generic "adderall crash." The crash is definitely not as bad as it could be after mega-dosing adderall for 36hrs. That means, it [the crash] doesn't get carried over to the next day as much so taking a 9hr nap rejuvenates sufficiently to pull another 36hr cycle. (I think taking the TAU+Sulb+Pram+Ani at night definitely helped with the dopamine modulation and prevented the Armo tolerance throughout the week.) This is very good for mega-productivity [emergency/exam] schedule.

Limitations: neither of these go well with caffeine or dopamine precursors. So for example, I found that dosing Armo + PP/Adderall + Tyrosine + Caffeine is literally the worst thing you can do if you're not uber-careful. Taking dopamine precursors + caffeine with this stack can make you feel absolutely crazy (note: I am relatively low anxiety so I took a little acetyl-l-tyrosine post 24hrs on Armo+Adderall but people who cannot handle irritability should never take caffeine + any amount of dopamine precursors with this stack.) I discovered this by avoiding Adderall post 24hrs on Armo + PP thinking that caffeine + tyrosine is more "natural" than adderall at that point -- I was wrong. It made me unusually prone to anxiety which led to a crazy psychosomatic fight or flight response that took about 30min to get over. The effects of the latter were devastating to clarity/planning/problem solving/emotional response., which shouldn't be a surprise really since taking 4 dopaminergics would thwart different mechanisms of dopamine metabolism in the brain. I should've been more careful not to mistake caffeine and tyrosine for "harmless, organic nutrients."

Notes: on any relatively important day I'd dose 2 halfs of Armo + PP rather than 1 full dose of armo. I wouldn't use Armo+ Adderall unless I am past the 24hr cycle. I will probably never dose Armo+PP+caffeine+tyrosine no matter how fatigued I am. TAU at night and Alpha GPC during the day was probably crucial but I can only speculate based on consistency of results I got from Armo + PP throughout the week.


Oh btw, I completely eliminated CILTEP dosing during these trials to avoid Modafinil-induced occlusions of Forskolin LTP, which come with some nausea apparently. I also dosed at least 2000mg of DHA per 24hrs and tripled my B complex intake per 24hrs.

Edited by alecnevsky, 19 December 2012 - 08:34 AM.

[MatthewH]

Daily Vitamins

1 - Multivitamin
1 - B-150
7 drops - Cell Power (mixed in a bottle of water that I take the rest of my pills with) (btw, this stuff is amazing and increases the absorption of every other supplement I take)


My Stack What are good doses for the ingredients I have not yet added? I am capping my own 00's. Also, any good suggestions for mixing these ingredients? I was thinking mortar & pestle, but not sure if these might somehow effect each other adversely if I crush them together?

Morning:
150mg - Phenylpiracetam
200mg - Sulbutiamine
?? - Phenylethylamine HCL (PEA)
?? - Hordenine HCl
200mg - Caffeine Anhydrous
?? - Choline

Nighttime:
?? - Gamma Aminobutyric Acid (GABA)

Any other suggestions that anyone sees for this stack?

[▲420MD]

Phenylpiracetam is extremely stimulating. I feel like it can deplete choline stores way faster than any of the other nootropics. If I take 200-300mg+ even with choline I will get a headache.
Its definitely noticable and I can see why it was banned from the olympics now, I feel like all of my muscles are "fast-twitch" muscles now, honestly I can run much faster than I could before and thats just odd for a nootropic.
Too much gives me tinnitus, anyone else?

Edited by ▲420MD, 04 October 2013 - 04:44 PM.

[CognAscent]

Hello, I was wondering if your CILTEP stack already included a stimulant? I have a preformulated one with phenylalanine in it and am not sure if that would be good to take with phenylpiracetam. Thanks.