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Stuttering

stuttering stutter stammer stammering

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#1 JR7

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:59 AM


Hello,
This is my very first post and what brought me here was the hope of maybe finding some supplement recommendations for stuttering. I have developmental stuttering that ranges from mild to moderate and has actually worsened slightly this past year (I am now 35). Speech therapy has not worked for me. There is no cure for stuttering and many, many ideas as to what causes it (high dopamine, left and right brain hemisphere miscommunication, psyhosocial stresses, etc). I did a "Stuttering" forum search and came upon some excellent threads. One of the comments that stuck out the most to me was " ..but he can try the following: Increasing Interhemisphere commincation helps some (Piracetam, Aniracetam, Oxiracetam) and Reducing mental overactivity helps others theanine and/or lithium."
I would love to get others' input on this as well as maybe some different advice.


Thank you all in advance!

- Jesse

#2 JR7

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:14 AM

An excellent article on stuttering and neurotransmitters (this would be the dopamine theory): http://stutter-mind-...itters.html?m=0

If I should put all this in the "Brain" forum please let me know.

Note: That is NOT my blog site. I just found that it explained the situation well.

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#3 james610

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:42 PM

Hello Jreinhal,

Me too I have a speech impediment,I have tried different supplements and nothing really seems to have a noticeable impact.But i've been reading on this forum and around the web,I recommend supplements like piracetam,aniracetam and bacopa.People seem to gain more fluency with these ones.Good luck to you

#4 shifter

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:06 AM

I wonder if there has been extensive research done why people who stutter, have no problems when singing. Has anyone wired up the brain to take a look at the activity between a stutterer in normal talking vs their singing?

#5 JR7

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:26 AM

Hello Jreinhal,

Me too I have a speech impediment,I have tried different supplements and nothing really seems to have a noticeable impact.But i've been reading on this forum and around the web,I recommend supplements like piracetam,aniracetam and bacopa.People seem to gain more fluency with these ones.Good luck to you

I started a regimen of 750mg of aniracetam. I really haven't felt much as of yet. I may up the dose. I did, though, start neurofeedback. Great article here on it:
http://www.bmedrepor...m/archives/3138
I am so far 2 sessions into a total of 20.

I wonder if there has been extensive research done why people who stutter, have no problems when singing. Has anyone wired up the brain to take a look at the activity between a stutterer in normal talking vs their singing?

Not only do I not stutter when I sing, but when I speak while alone as well. Completely fluent. Although very interesting from an outside perspective, emotionally it's very taxing. Good article on the stuttering/singing question here:
http://bodyodd.nbcne...n-he-sings?lite

Thank you both for the feedback!

#6 ironfistx

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:35 AM

If I understand correctly, stuttering is neurological in nature, much like tics/Tourettes.

Interestingly, some people with tics stop ticcing when they sing. They also seem to go away during sex and during trips to the doctor. Is that your experience with stuttering, too?

You might want to look into tic treatments and see if there is any carryover into stuttering. Use caution, though, as some medications used to treat tics can have substantial (and sometimes permanent) side effects.

http://www.tourettes...-treatments.php

Specifically, I would begin by looking at the drugs with the most mild side effects:

- Clonidine
- Tenex
- Topamax
- Cannibis

Beyond that, the side effects get scary. Certain drugs, such as antipsychotics and atypical antipsychotics, have side effects including tardive dyskinesia (potentially permanent facial movement disorder) as well as a lengthening of the QT interval which can cause sudden death.

There are some supplements that some people say lessen their tics and may be worth looking at regarding stuttering. These include B Vitamins and magnesium taurate. Also, some people report that certain foods or ingredients worsen their tics. Have you ever noticed your stuttering getting worse after eating certain things?
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#7 JR7

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:45 AM

If I understand correctly, stuttering is neurological in nature, much like tics/Tourettes.

Interestingly, some people with tics stop ticcing when they sing. They also seem to go away during sex and during trips to the doctor. Is that your experience with stuttering, too?

You might want to look into tic treatments and see if there is any carryover into stuttering. Use caution, though, as some medications used to treat tics can have substantial (and sometimes permanent) side effects.

http://www.tourettes...-treatments.php

Specifically, I would begin by looking at the drugs with the most mild side effects:

- Clonidine
- Tenex
- Topamax
- Cannibis

Beyond that, the side effects get scary. Certain drugs, such as antipsychotics and atypical antipsychotics, have side effects including tardive dyskinesia (potentially permanent facial movement disorder) as well as a lengthening of the QT interval which can cause sudden death.

There are some supplements that some people say lessen their tics and may be worth looking at regarding stuttering. These include B Vitamins and magnesium taurate. Also, some people report that certain foods or ingredients worsen their tics. Have you ever noticed your stuttering getting worse after eating certain things?



Thanks so much for your reply! Its really interesting you brought up the pharmaceuticals. I have just been invited by the UC Ivrvine Stuttering Research Center to participate in a clinical trial for Asenapine (an antipsychotics). This trial will determine whether or not this class of drug is safe for stuttering treatment. To be honest, the side effects scare the heck out of me. Ive been trying most of my life to find a cure without using drugs. In fact Im currently trying neurofeedback here in Las Vegas. The antiphsychotics are dopamine blockers and one theory is that stutterers have excessive dopamine (as I linked above).

#8 ironfistx

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:57 AM

The side effect profiles for antipsychotics are pretty harsh. Asenapine is an atypical antipsychotic, which has less risk of tardive dyskinesia than regular antipsychotics, but it's still there.

#9 JR7

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:03 AM

The side effect profiles for antipsychotics are pretty harsh. Asenapine is an atypical antipsychotic, which has less risk of tardive dyskinesia than regular antipsychotics, but it's still there.

Ugh. It's quite a dilemma. I'd much prefer to cure this without those types of side effects.
As far as food goes, I notice when I eat really low carb/high fat for a period of time, as I have been, my stuttering gets worse. My theory is that high omega-3 fat increase dopamine and low carb drops serotonin levels. That is just a theory though. Since I have eaten this may (Paleo) for the past year, my stuttering has gone from mild to moderate.

#10 Galaxyshock

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:00 PM

Panax Ginseng has antipsychotic-like effects - it has affinity at the same receptors (NMDA, Dopamine, GABA) but without the harsh nature or side effects of APs. It could be helpful.

Mucuna (L-DOPA) indeed gave me some stuttering when I used it too often so the dopamine-connection may very well be there.

Do anxiolytics like alcohol or theanine mitigate the stuttering?

#11 ironfistx

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

How long is the enrollment for the study open? Do you have to decide now? If I were going to try prescription medication, I would begin with Clonidine which has mild side effects (drowsiness, dizziness upon standing, headache, reduced libido). I would begin with a small dose of 0.025-0.05mg (1/4 to 1/2 of a 0.1mg pill). If you notice an improvement in stuttering but the side effects are too strong (bad headaches, for example), I would try a different brand of Clonidine, as certain brands have been reported to have differing levels of side effects (may depend on your physiology, too).

Check out the right column in this article:

http://ajp.psychiatr...rticleid=168643

#12 Turnbuckle

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:33 PM

Insofar as anticipatory stress my be a factor, a beta blocker might help, as with this person--http://www.mnsu.edu/...udy/case10.html

#13 JR7

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:39 AM

Panax Ginseng has antipsychotic-like effects - it has affinity at the same receptors (NMDA, Dopamine, GABA) but without the harsh nature or side effects of APs. It could be helpful.

Mucuna (L-DOPA) indeed gave me some stuttering when I used it too often so the dopamine-connection may very well be there.

Do anxiolytics like alcohol or theanine mitigate the stuttering?


I have a bottle of 500mg B1 capsules that I have not been able to try long term. If its worth a go, I may try it.
The Panax Ginseng sounds interesting. I may give that a shot as well.
Than you!

#14 JR7

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:43 AM

How long is the enrollment for the study open? Do you have to decide now? If I were going to try prescription medication, I would begin with Clonidine which has mild side effects (drowsiness, dizziness upon standing, headache, reduced libido). I would begin with a small dose of 0.025-0.05mg (1/4 to 1/2 of a 0.1mg pill). If you notice an improvement in stuttering but the side effects are too strong (bad headaches, for example), I would try a different brand of Clonidine, as certain brands have been reported to have differing levels of side effects (may depend on your physiology, too).

Check out the right column in this article:

http://ajp.psychiatr...rticleid=168643


Here is the text from the email invite:


"Dear Jesse,

You have expressed interest in being part of a research study involving the treatment of stuttering at the UC Irvine Medical Center with Dr. Maguire. We are getting close to our start date and I am reaching out to potential candidates. The study will be at the UC Irvine Medical Center in Orange and will last approximately three months. There will be a screening visit to determine your eligibility. If you are eligible for the research study, the visits are as follows: 5 weekly visits followed by 2 monthly visits. It will be a total of 8 visits here at UCI (including the screening visit to determine your eligibility). Visits will last approximately 3 hours. Visits will ONLY take place on Fridays. If you are still interested in participating in the study, please email me back at ...... Thank you for your interest in this very important research study."

There is really no mention of a timetable as far as how long I have until I respond. Im just really nervous about this particular drug for some reason, My stammer is mild to moderate and would hate to have sever side effects from the drug. In the Clonidine study you linked, does it appear to you that stuttering in the patients may be a secondary symptom? Whereas in my case stuttering the the primary and only symptom.

Thank you for your help with this

#15 JR7

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:49 AM

Insofar as anticipatory stress my be a factor, a beta blocker might help, as with this person--http://www.mnsu.edu/...udy/case10.html



Beta blockers are something Ive been REALLY wanting to try for quite some time now. Reading that link, it's amazing the results it had controlling the blocking symptoms. I see something like a beta blocker being used when I am under stress (i.e. talking to an authority figure, group of people, etc). Unfortunately, in day to day casual conversation I still get blocks, but it's MUCH easier to work through them. Im not sure if I would integrate a beta blocker for everyday use, and quite honestly I am hoping to be get rid of stuttering in all areas of my life (maybe overly optimistic).

Thank yo very much for your help in this matter.

#16 ironfistx

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:02 AM

How long is the enrollment for the study open? Do you have to decide now? If I were going to try prescription medication, I would begin with Clonidine which has mild side effects (drowsiness, dizziness upon standing, headache, reduced libido). I would begin with a small dose of 0.025-0.05mg (1/4 to 1/2 of a 0.1mg pill). If you notice an improvement in stuttering but the side effects are too strong (bad headaches, for example), I would try a different brand of Clonidine, as certain brands have been reported to have differing levels of side effects (may depend on your physiology, too).

Check out the right column in this article:

http://ajp.psychiatr...rticleid=168643


Here is the text from the email invite:


"Dear Jesse,

You have expressed interest in being part of a research study involving the treatment of stuttering at the UC Irvine Medical Center with Dr. Maguire. We are getting close to our start date and I am reaching out to potential candidates. The study will be at the UC Irvine Medical Center in Orange and will last approximately three months. There will be a screening visit to determine your eligibility. If you are eligible for the research study, the visits are as follows: 5 weekly visits followed by 2 monthly visits. It will be a total of 8 visits here at UCI (including the screening visit to determine your eligibility). Visits will last approximately 3 hours. Visits will ONLY take place on Fridays. If you are still interested in participating in the study, please email me back at ...... Thank you for your interest in this very important research study."

There is really no mention of a timetable as far as how long I have until I respond. Im just really nervous about this particular drug for some reason, My stammer is mild to moderate and would hate to have sever side effects from the drug. In the Clonidine study you linked, does it appear to you that stuttering in the patients may be a secondary symptom? Whereas in my case stuttering the the primary and only symptom.

Thank you for your help with this


Ok here's how I would look at it.

You can join the study. The drug might work for you, or it might not, or you might get side-effects (regardless of if it works for you or not).

I assume the advantage of joining the study is that you get the drug for free, right? My next question would be, do you have insurance and a doctor willing to prescribe that drug to you anyway? If so, then you can always do your own study later if other medications don't work out for you.

So if that's the case, I would start with something like Clonidine (which is cheap, it's like $4 at Walmart and $10 at Walgreens). If it doesn't work, it's probably not a big deal.

Try the drugs with less serious side-effects first.

If your doctor will let you try it anyway, you can always have him write you a prescription for the drug in the study (assuming it's available).

#17 JR7

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:06 AM

How long is the enrollment for the study open? Do you have to decide now? If I were going to try prescription medication, I would begin with Clonidine which has mild side effects (drowsiness, dizziness upon standing, headache, reduced libido). I would begin with a small dose of 0.025-0.05mg (1/4 to 1/2 of a 0.1mg pill). If you notice an improvement in stuttering but the side effects are too strong (bad headaches, for example), I would try a different brand of Clonidine, as certain brands have been reported to have differing levels of side effects (may depend on your physiology, too).

Check out the right column in this article:

http://ajp.psychiatr...rticleid=168643


Here is the text from the email invite:


"Dear Jesse,

You have expressed interest in being part of a research study involving the treatment of stuttering at the UC Irvine Medical Center with Dr. Maguire. We are getting close to our start date and I am reaching out to potential candidates. The study will be at the UC Irvine Medical Center in Orange and will last approximately three months. There will be a screening visit to determine your eligibility. If you are eligible for the research study, the visits are as follows: 5 weekly visits followed by 2 monthly visits. It will be a total of 8 visits here at UCI (including the screening visit to determine your eligibility). Visits will last approximately 3 hours. Visits will ONLY take place on Fridays. If you are still interested in participating in the study, please email me back at ...... Thank you for your interest in this very important research study."

There is really no mention of a timetable as far as how long I have until I respond. Im just really nervous about this particular drug for some reason, My stammer is mild to moderate and would hate to have sever side effects from the drug. In the Clonidine study you linked, does it appear to you that stuttering in the patients may be a secondary symptom? Whereas in my case stuttering the the primary and only symptom.

Thank you for your help with this


Ok here's how I would look at it.

You can join the study. The drug might work for you, or it might not, or you might get side-effects (regardless of if it works for you or not).

I assume the advantage of joining the study is that you get the drug for free, right? My next question would be, do you have insurance and a doctor willing to prescribe that drug to you anyway? If so, then you can always do your own study later if other medications don't work out for you.

So if that's the case, I would start with something like Clonidine (which is cheap, it's like $4 at Walmart and $10 at Walgreens). If it doesn't work, it's probably not a big deal.

Try the drugs with less serious side-effects first.

If your doctor will let you try it anyway, you can always have him write you a prescription for the drug in the study (assuming it's available).


That was EXACTLY my line of thinking. The drug is called Saphris and IF it does get approved as a treatment for stuttering, then I will always have the opportunity at that time (I have great insurance).
Ive yet to see a doctor to treat my stuttering with pharmaceuticals. I am not sure how it will go over as most I presume don't know too much about the disorder and will just refer me to speech therapy.

#18 ironfistx

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:12 AM

I think your doctor can prescribe it off label even if it's not technically approved for stuttering. Of course, if the study doesn't show that it's effective, you probably wouldn't want it anyway.

You might have to talk to him about it, though, especially if he's not familiar with the drug or the study or stuttering.

Does your stuttering go away when you're at the doctor's office?

Edited by ironfistx, 28 January 2013 - 07:13 AM.


#19 JR7

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:25 AM

I think your doctor can prescribe it off label even if it's not technically approved for stuttering. Of course, if the study doesn't show that it's effective, you probably wouldn't want it anyway.

You might have to talk to him about it, though, especially if he's not familiar with the drug or the study or stuttering.

Does your stuttering go away when you're at the doctor's office?


Oh God no. The more I view the person as in a position of authority, the worse my stuttering gets. Granted I still stutter pretty consistently with folks Im comfortable with like my girlfriend. But with a doctor, I completely block and have to swap out difficult words constantly and/or just not talk.

But as I mentioned earlier, when I am completely alone and I do not have a listener, I am COMPLETELY fluent. As if I have no speech impediment whatsoever (this is pretty much across the board with stutterers). So insane.

#20 ironfistx

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:25 AM

Oh. The reason I asked is because it's commonly reported that tics go away in the doctor's office so I wondered if maybe your stuttering was similar.
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#21 hippocampus

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:03 PM

One interesting find from neurology is that people with Broca's aphasia (damage to the left Broca's area, near premotor cortex) can't talk but can sing (usually). One kind of therapy for them is to use right brain for speaking - actually they are learned to sing but with very little prosody or melody (this not noticeable after practice). You may try this, find a neurologist/neuropsychologist that could learn you to do this. Hope this helps. :)
Here's something about this, it's called melodic intonation therapy:
http://en.wikipedia....onation_therapy

Edited by hippocampus, 28 January 2013 - 11:05 PM.


#22 JR7

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:30 PM

One interesting find from neurology is that people with Broca's aphasia (damage to the left Broca's area, near premotor cortex) can't talk but can sing (usually). One kind of therapy for them is to use right brain for speaking - actually they are learned to sing but with very little prosody or melody (this not noticeable after practice). You may try this, find a neurologist/neuropsychologist that could learn you to do this. Hope this helps. :)
Here's something about this, it's called melodic intonation therapy:
http://en.wikipedia....onation_therapy


Wow, this is very interesting. I'm definitely going to look into this.
One of the theories on stuttering is scans are showing higher than normal activity in the right brain hemisphere and lower than normal activity in the left (all compared to a fluent speaker). It appears we, stutterers, are using more of the incorrect portion of the brain to speak. The theory is that since the right hemisphere is the emotional portion, our speaking is more influenced by emotions.
Thank you for your feedback!
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#23 james610

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:21 PM

Hello Jreinhal,

Me too I have a speech impediment,I have tried different supplements and nothing really seems to have a noticeable impact.But i've been reading on this forum and around the web,I recommend supplements like piracetam,aniracetam and bacopa.People seem to gain more fluency with these ones.Good luck to you

I started a regimen of 750mg of aniracetam. I really haven't felt much as of yet. I may up the dose. I did, though, start neurofeedback. Great article here on it:
http://www.bmedrepor...m/archives/3138
I am so far 2 sessions into a total of 20.

I wonder if there has been extensive research done why people who stutter, have no problems when singing. Has anyone wired up the brain to take a look at the activity between a stutterer in normal talking vs their singing?

Not only do I not stutter when I sing, but when I speak while alone as well. Completely fluent. Although very interesting from an outside perspective, emotionally it's very taxing. Good article on the stuttering/singing question here:
http://bodyodd.nbcne...n-he-sings?lite

Thank you both for the feedback!


I tried piracetam long time ago and it didn't have any positive effect ,I stopped taking it after a week,maybe I should have continued.I've just ordered some aniracetam,I got my fingers crossed but I'm not expecting much.In my opinion,the best cure or treatment for stuttering is having a strong support group that understands and is willing to help.Speech classes and improv classes are great,they can help you overcome that FEAR that limits one's desire for expression.

#24 JR7

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:43 AM

Ive been trying aniracetam here and there with no effects. If it is something that needs to build up in the system over time, I suppose I need to be more consistent with dosing. I found this bit of information regarding piracetam via http://www.limitless...will-power.html : "Piracetam increases perception of reward and arousal. Increases dopamine." If this is the case, I should probably stay very far away from nootropics as stutterers have been researched to have higher than normal amounts of dopamine. In fact, they are attempting to treat stuttering with dopamine antagonists. Which would leave me to ask if there is perscription-free way to lower dopamine levels.

Edited by Jreinhal, 30 January 2013 - 12:44 AM.


#25 Galaxyshock

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:05 AM

You could target increasing serotonin/gaba which would lower dopamine. Bacopa is something that does that and is actually considered nootropic. Could be helpful.

#26 ironfistx

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:11 AM

That medication in the study they want you to be a part of is a dopamine antagonist. I don't know if lowering dopamine "prescription free" has the same side effects.

#27 JR7

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:49 AM

You could target increasing serotonin/gaba which would lower dopamine. Bacopa is something that does that and is actually considered nootropic. Could be helpful.

I'm about to research Bacopa ASAP! Thank you

That medication in the study they want you to be a part of is a dopamine antagonist. I don't know if lowering dopamine "prescription free" has the same side effects.

I think I see what you mean, lowering dopamine may not have the same effect as blocking dopamine, right?

What I do notice is that when I alter my lifestyle with supplements and diet that are known to increase dopamine levels, my stammering gets much worse. Im hoping if I reverse that by attempting to lower the dopamine levels, I may see mild improvement.


I've been hoping for a cure for most of my life and it seems as though Im at the point where Id like to try to make matters into my own hands as much as I can

#28 JR7

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:24 PM

Ive been getting excellent feedback. Thank you all.
Question, would this topic maybe be better suited for the "Brain Health" forum?
Thank you again,

#29 Hyphen

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:17 AM

I have a stuttering problem too.
I've tried lots of supplements, nothing in particular ever made a huge difference in and of itself.
Some supplements have helped by improving general health resulting in less stress.
I know when I am less stress/more relaxed my speech is noticably improved.
Things like ashwagandha and magnesium seem to help in this regard.
However, whenever I take panax ginseng, eleuthero root, or any similar herb, my speech gets worse.
This is probably fairly common sense, I am just noting my experiences.
Piracetam, Aniracetam, Sulbutiamine, ALCAR, and things like have never made much of an effect either way. (to my awareness, anyway)


Stuttering is still an unsolved mystery to this very day, as far as I know anyway and I've done a bit of research since I have the problem myself.

P.S. Everyone is talking about stutters being able to sing fine, which is true, but I can also whisper and yell fine as well.
@The other people here with speech problems::: Can you guys also whisper and yell fine? I am wondering if this is just me, because I've never heard another stutterer mention this, although I haven't asked until now. They seem to only mention the singing.

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#30 Junk Master

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:29 PM

Excellent thread BTW.

I take a dopamine agonist (ropinirole) at night for restless leg syndrome and I wonder if this could lead to a suppression of endogenous dopamine release-- I've seen some speculation that's the case. If that's the case then maybe, paradoxically, a dopamine agonist might help stuttering in time. Of course, dopamine agonists help stuttering in Parkinson's patients, but that's a different situation.

Piracetam sure increases my verbal fluency and removes any "tip of the tongue" feeling with vocabulary.





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