34 replies to this topic

[kolok]

Hi every one I am posting my story here. it should be an eye opening for people who think Saw palmetto is very safe to use. what Saw palmetto did to me I will never wish for my worst enemy.
I have lost my job. I have became handicaped . I have suicidal thoughts all the time. I was social but now keep inside. In ten months I looked 60 year old. My face looked like that of a 90 year old man. My face has lost natural fat and skin becam thin and loose hang like old people .When my family needed my support I have become dependent on my wife for every thing. when it was time to support and enjoy my kids, I am depressed and crying all the times and this all thanks to saw palmetto. Does any body knows andy cure for that?
Let me say I was very healthy person. I never drank or used any narcotics ,cigarette in my life (because of my strict religion). I usually stay away from meds, even from normal pain killers or anti biotics.
In June 2008 I was having hair loss. I found finateride is used for this purpose but again since I don't like meds I dropped the idea of finasteride instead started using Saw palmetto thinking it is natural and safer. In 6 months Saw palmetto ruined my life. from healthy muscline man I became fiminine and got man boobs. I stopped saw palmetto in feb,2009 but my symptoms are getting worse and worse. I have osteoporosis, fibromaylgia. I am constantly spitting blood. have got stomach and intestine ulcers. I can not walk or grab things. I was able to easily lift 30 kgs in each of my hand but now hardly 5 kg for a shor time only.I have always nausea feelings. My teeth are weak and yellow. they have lost whiteness and have became yellowish, Dentist told me I am loosing calcium very fast.Now I am taking vit D it gave me some relief but no cure. I am completely impotent. penis and balls shrank alot they are smaller than that of a 5 year old boy. Before my balls were huge and very heavy. my problems are not over yet. saw palmetto destroyed me in every way. I am suffering mentally as well. I can not do critical thinking or simple calculation. I have lost normal sleep. I am also having anemia. My once healthy red hands are now pale yellow.

Honest to God I am very very scared to take any medicine. I am thankful to God that I found Vit D3 otherwise I would be a lot worse or maybe dead already.I just visited a homeopath and he gave me

anacardium
yohombinum

I did not take them yet.I am too weak. before taking saw palmetto I was healthy as a bull.
I feel totally hopelesss what do you guys recommended me to heal myself, am I am doomed?

[niner]

I feel totally hopelesss what do you guys recommended me to heal myself, am I am doomed?

Hi kolok, I'm sorry you're feeling so poorly. Before we can help you, we need to know if you are real. We've been having a series of elaborate hoaxes of late, with someone posting a terrible story involving some supplement or nootropic. Could you tell us where you live, and post some pictures showing your condition?

[kolok]

wow I was rather expecting for help than being questioned
I can't tell you where I live I wish to remain anonymous, I live in the us, ca, I won't tell more details.
about posting pics of myself sorry this is out of question, I'm alreayd mortified enough and I don't need more humiliation than that I have

[dear mrclock]

this thread is horrible. the guy just cried his eyes out about some serious problem he has gotten from a herb and niner just barges in and questions him like he is the police. then he receives +1 rating and the guy -2. some justice....

[PWAIN]

Niner is now up to +3 and the guy is down to -4.

Since you seem to be a master at missing what is really going on on this board (you may want to learn about the recent topics menu on the LHS), there is a troll around that is posting stuff just like this all over the place. They are always new first posts with outrage claims. At least we may now know what they are pushing - homeopathy. Should have just come out with it, loads of people here would likely be interested.

[stablemind]

I feel totally hopelesss what do you guys recommended me to heal myself, am I am doomed?

Hi kolok, I'm sorry you're feeling so poorly. Before we can help you, we need to know if you are real. We've been having a series of elaborate hoaxes of late, with someone posting a terrible story involving some supplement or nootropic. Could you tell us where you live, and post some pictures showing your condition?

You should match this guys IP with the IPs of other trolls that have posted, then see if you can just block the range.

[dear mrclock]

Niner is now up to +3 and the guy is down to -4.

Since you seem to be a master at missing what is really going on on this board (you may want to learn about the recent topics menu on the LHS), there is a troll around that is posting stuff just like this all over the place. They are always new first posts with outrage claims. At least we may now know what they are pushing - homeopathy. Should have just come out with it, loads of people here would likely be interested.

yeh well i didnt see any other troll threads on here and i didnt bother going through all the forum to catch the troll. i mean, i assume you guys know better but i was just re-reading that supposed troll first post again and i have hard time finding it as a troll. saw palmetto has those same side effects i have heard in other people after high doses prolonged use and i guess he just reacted worst to it than most others. why would anyone bother to troll about such thing anyway ? not like saw palmetto is this huge business that needs to be bad mouthed for competition purposes. if thats really a troll, then fuck, must be the most boring, pointless troll ever.

[malden]

Hi every one I am posting my story here. it should be an eye opening for people who think Saw palmetto is very safe to use. what Saw palmetto did to me I will never wish for my worst enemy.
I have lost my job. I have became handicaped . I have suicidal thoughts all the time. I was social but now keep inside. In ten months I looked 60 year old. My face looked like that of a 90 year old man. My face has lost natural fat and skin becam thin and loose hang like old people .When my family needed my support I have become dependent on my wife for every thing. when it was time to support and enjoy my kids, I am depressed and crying all the times and this all thanks to saw palmetto. Does any body knows andy cure for that?
Let me say I was very healthy person. I never drank or used any narcotics ,cigarette in my life (because of my strict religion). I usually stay away from meds, even from normal pain killers or anti biotics.
In June 2008 I was having hair loss. I found finateride is used for this purpose but again since I don't like meds I dropped the idea of finasteride instead started using Saw palmetto thinking it is natural and safer. In 6 months Saw palmetto ruined my life. from healthy muscline man I became fiminine and got man boobs. I stopped saw palmetto in feb,2009 but my symptoms are getting worse and worse. I have osteoporosis, fibromaylgia. I am constantly spitting blood. have got stomach and intestine ulcers. I can not walk or grab things. I was able to easily lift 30 kgs in each of my hand but now hardly 5 kg for a shor time only.I have always nausea feelings. My teeth are weak and yellow. they have lost whiteness and have became yellowish, Dentist told me I am loosing calcium very fast.Now I am taking vit D it gave me some relief but no cure. I am completely impotent. penis and balls shrank alot they are smaller than that of a 5 year old boy. Before my balls were huge and very heavy. my problems are not over yet. saw palmetto destroyed me in every way. I am suffering mentally as well. I can not do critical thinking or simple calculation. I have lost normal sleep. I am also having anemia. My once healthy red hands are now pale yellow.

Honest to God I am very very scared to take any medicine. I am thankful to God that I found Vit D3 otherwise I would be a lot worse or maybe dead already.I just visited a homeopath and he gave me

anacardium
yohombinum

I did not take them yet.I am too weak. before taking saw palmetto I was healthy as a bull.
I feel totally hopelesss what do you guys recommended me to heal myself, am I am doomed?

Verry sorry to hear this men, i dont know why everybody react so bad.
finasteride is know for this, its wel documented. its called post finasteride syndrome.
And this is also associated with the use of Saw palmetto, because they share the same mechanism of 5AR inhibition

http://www.pfsfoundation.org/

http://www.propeciahelp.com/overview On this forum you may find more recognition, but a cure is still far away. but the guys there are doing verry good things the help to set the truth.

Some people have success with alpha blockers, (take a google on it, or look at the forum)
personal i can only recommend Idebenone for muscle skeleton problems, as a legally to obtain pharmaceutical treatment.

http://www.allthings....com/index.html dr john crisler treats post fin, with hormonal approach with some succes.


My personal note to the members over here. everybody is innocent until proven guilty.
we cant fire everybody, because its a sad but story. This do exists, and often. This people stand alone.

take care TS

Edited by malden, 18 January 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[dear mrclock]

yeh, niner just came out as a complete asshole

[ViaSwiss]

I also had my life turned upside down from Saw Palmetto. I went from an 18 year old star athlete to a 90 year old man over night. I have all the classic Post-Finasteride Symptoms and have had this for 7 years now. Our best hope right now is to donate to the Post Finasteride Foundation...

[Adaptogen]

I also had my life turned upside down from Saw Palmetto. I went from an 18 year old star athlete to a 90 year old man over night. I have all the classic Post-Finasteride Symptoms and have had this for 7 years now. Our best hope right now is to donate to the Post Finasteride Foundation...

how do i donate? do you take personal donations?

[ViaSwiss]

www(dot)pfsfoundation(dot)org

The chairman's is a doctor and his son committed suicide after getting PFS.

They are currrently involved in about 3 studies based out of Italy and are in the beginning phase of a few with a top research university in the US.

In addition, the are sponsoring the 7th International Meeting of Steroids and Nervous System in Italy in a few weeks....google that

[tjcbs]

Wow... Any update on this? Have you guys recovered??

 

I took a small dose for a little while, and my brother is taking a large dose of a high potency extract. 

[pamojja]

 

In 6 months Saw palmetto ruined my life. from healthy muscline man I became fiminine and got man boobs

I took Super Saw Palmetto (LEF) for almost 6 years without any of the described Post-Finasteride symptoms. On the contrary, my libido came back.

 

To put it in perspective, someone more knowledgeable how frequent theses side-effects could occur?

[timar]

IMO an obvious hoax such as this should simply be deleted, otherwise it just adds to all the FUD on the internet, needlessly scaring people about a pretty benign herbal supplement (although not without some degree of gullibly on their side to take something like this at face value).

 

Even if, by its hypothetical mechanism of action, Saw Palmetto may have the potential for some finasteride-like side effects (which can be unpleasant, but nothing like the complete BS above), such side effects generally do not seem to occur in the commonly recommended dose range, shown to be effective in clinical trials. At least there are no credible reports for any such side effects. In Germany, saw palmetto is a commonly prescribed herbal medicine, taken by ten thousands of men for at least thirty years and subject to the same safety monitoring system as any prescription drug - yet the leaflets list exactly zero side effects.

 

[ViaSwiss]

IMO an obvious hoax such as this should simply be deleted, otherwise it just adds to all the FUD on the internet, needlessly scaring people about a pretty benign herbal supplement (although not without some degree of gullibly on their side to take something like this at face value).

 

Even if, by its hypothetical mechanism of action, Saw Palmetto may have the potential for some finasteride-like side effects (which can be unpleasant, but nothing like the complete BS above), such side effects generally do not seem to occur in the commonly recommended dose range, shown to be effective in clinical trials. At least there are no credible reports for any such side effects. In Germany, saw palmetto is a commonly prescribed herbal medicine, taken by ten thousands of men for at least thirty years and subject to the same safety monitoring system as any prescription drug - yet the leaflets list exactly zero side effects.

 

If it were a hoax, I do not believe you would be able to find hundreds to thousands of anecdotal cases online about this. In addition, some countries such as Denmark would not ban Saw Palmetto as a supplement as they have done.

[niner]

If it were a hoax, I do not believe you would be able to find hundreds to thousands of anecdotal cases online about this. In addition, some countries such as Denmark would not ban Saw Palmetto as a supplement as they have done.

 

While it's possible that Saw Palmetto has some problems, the initial post in this thread is definitely a hoax. 

[ViaSwiss]

 

If it were a hoax, I do not believe you would be able to find hundreds to thousands of anecdotal cases online about this. In addition, some countries such as Denmark would not ban Saw Palmetto as a supplement as they have done.

 

While it's possible that Saw Palmetto has some problems, the initial post in this thread is definitely a hoax. 

 

 

I disagree. If you read the PropeciaHelp forums, there are many Sa Palmetto users who detail similar stories. Check out the forums some stories include pictures. I specifically remember seeing one where a guy posted before pictures of his face and 1 year post Saw Palmetoo crash pictures. The wrinkles and change in elasticity in his skin was pretty devestating.

[niner]

 

 

If it were a hoax, I do not believe you would be able to find hundreds to thousands of anecdotal cases online about this. In addition, some countries such as Denmark would not ban Saw Palmetto as a supplement as they have done.

 

While it's possible that Saw Palmetto has some problems, the initial post in this thread is definitely a hoax. 

 

I disagree. If you read the PropeciaHelp forums, there are many Sa Palmetto users who detail similar stories. Check out the forums some stories include pictures. I specifically remember seeing one where a guy posted before pictures of his face and 1 year post Saw Palmetoo crash pictures. The wrinkles and change in elasticity in his skin was pretty devestating.

 

Look, the guy who posted this is a known troll.  He was very active here for a while, and I know his writing.  Finasteride has a well known constellation of problems, some of which are pretty severe.  I haven't seen the data on saw palmetto, and don't know much about it.  Maybe it has problems.  That has nothing to do with the reality of this particular troll post.

[timar]

If it were a hoax, I do not believe you would be able to find hundreds to thousands of anecdotal cases online about this. In addition, some countries such as Denmark would not ban Saw Palmetto as a supplement as they have done.

 

Hundreds of thousands!? Starting with such an absurd exaggeration doesn't exactly help you case.

 

Whom do you trust more? A few anonymous reports on the internet - some of them by trolls, some by people obviously being hysteric - or the experience of thousands of physicians? As I said, in Germany (and many other European countries) saw palmetto is considered a herbal medicine subject to drug regulations - this is why Denmark supposedly banned it as an over-the-counter supplement. Now consider that it has been licenced as a herbal medicie for several decades, presribed by thousands of physicians to tens if not hundreds of thousands of people and monitored for adverse effects, as required by law. Yet what adverse effects are listed on the leaflet today? Exactly zero. Compare that to Finasteride...
 

Edited by timar, 20 September 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

I think niner is probably right. The OP is taken verbatim from a couple of 2010 posts on this forum. And while the subject is discussed there for ten pages over a period of four years, the OP copy-pasted from the first page as if he'd learned nothing from 2010 when he originally posted this material, to 2013 when he posted it here.

[niner]

I think niner is probably right. The OP is taken verbatim from a couple of 2010 posts on this forum. And while the subject is discussed there for ten pages over a period of four years, the OP copy-pasted from the first page as if he'd learned nothing from 2010 when he originally posted this material, to 2013 when he posted it here.

 

Yeah, that was funny.  It shows you the difference in gullibility between the homeopathy crowd and the people at this forum.   There was one guy in the homeopathy forum who called him out as an obvious troll, but the rest of them bought it.  Over the years that he trolled them, he didn't always keep up the ruse of sounding like a farmer from Kazakhstan with a limited command of English.  At some point he started sounding pretty modern, but then later he went back to sounding like Borat.  At the end, there was a guy talking about taking up a collection to send him to some magic doctor in India who could cure any and all ills.

[ViaSwiss]

I am a researcher by profession. I understand the important of emperical research and methods that are data driven. It what I do everyday.

 

However, I have personally expereinced the harm that Saw Palmetto can do to a man. It is definitely not to everyone who takes it. But there does appear to be a subset of men who this herb/a compound in this herb absolutely destorys.

 

So I do not need anecdotal stories nor do I need empiricle evidence to prove it to me. I have lived with this condition for over 10 years and it has wrecked my life in many facets. I have spent over $40,000 and had over 20 different world renouned doctors work with me who admit it exists but have no treatments.

[Kevnzworld]

I have taken saw palmetto for years without any adverse effect. I recently started taking 2.5 mg of finasteride daily after a blood test showed elevated DHT levels. My PSA is 1.0 I'm 58. I would be hesitant to take finasteride if I was in my 20's.
My recent blood test affirmed my opinion that men that do hormone replacement need to get all their major hormones measured semi annually.

[niner]

I am a researcher by profession. I understand the important of emperical research and methods that are data driven. It what I do everyday.

 

However, I have personally expereinced the harm that Saw Palmetto can do to a man. It is definitely not to everyone who takes it. But there does appear to be a subset of men who this herb/a compound in this herb absolutely destorys.

 

So I do not need anecdotal stories nor do I need empiricle evidence to prove it to me. I have lived with this condition for over 10 years and it has wrecked my life in many facets. I have spent over $40,000 and had over 20 different world renouned doctors work with me who admit it exists but have no treatments.

 

Sorry to hear that you're feeling bad.  What kind of research do you do?  Who are these world renowned doctors that you've worked with?  What did they try on you? 

[kaypeeoh]

The OP may not be believable but....The active ingredient in saw palmetto is Beta-Sitosterol, an alpha-5 reductase inhibitor similar to finasteride.   It lessened my libido and caused early gynecomastia.  I tried it as a mild treatment for BPH.  Years ago I tried testosterone injections but quit because the shots sent libido through the roof.   After using beta-sitosterol I tried testosterone injections again and this time they did little.   Dr Crisler has had some results using extremely high doses of testosterone but I didn't want to risk that.   The BPH had me getting up to pee three times a night.  Since changing my diet the peeing problem has stopped. 

 

kpo

[timar]

The OP may not be believable but....The active ingredient in saw palmetto is Beta-Sitosterol, an alpha-5 reductase inhibitor similar to finasteride. 

 

No, it isn't. Although it is widely believed that the main mechanism of action for saw palmetto is A5R inhibition, there is surprisingly little evidence to support that hypothesis. In any case, the active principle is certainly not the β-sitosterol, or even other phytosterols, as saw palmetto actually contains very little of them*. You'll get about ten times more β-sitosterol from a teaspoon of basil pesto than from the saw palmetto supplement of your choice (yet there are strangely no internet reports from people developing post-Finasteride syndrome after having eaten spaghetti with pesto or snacked on some nuts or seeds. Well, not yet I suppose ).

 

*This is a corrected google translation of a list given in the German Wikipedia article for the richest plant sources of β-sitosterol:

 

Cherimoya seeds (Annona cherimola MILL.): 10,000-14,000 ppm

Midland Hawthorn blossoms and leaves (Crataegus laevigata (Poir) DC.): 6500-7800 ppm in the flowers; 5100-6200 ppm in the leaves

Genuine Black cumin seeds (Nigella sativa L.): 3218 ppm

Evening primrose seeds (Oenothera biennis L.): 1186-2528 ppm

Sage, leaves (Salvia officinalis L.): 5-2450 ppm

White mulberry (Morus alba L.): 2000 ppm in the leaves

Senna obtusifolia (L.) H.IRWIN & Barneby: 1000-2000 ppm in the seed

Buckwheat seeds (Fagopyrum esculentum Moench.): 1880 ppm

Basil, leaves (Ocimum basilicum L.): 896-1705 ppm

Maize (Zea mays L.): 1300 ppm in corn pen, in scar / Stylus (corn pen)

Sage, stalks (Salvia officinalis L.): 1214 ppm

Basil, flowers (Ocimum basilicum L.): 1051 ppm

Seabuckthorn seeds (Hippophae rhamnoides L.): 550-970 ppm

Soybean (Glycine max (L.) MERR.): 900 ppm in the seed

Licorice, root (Glycyrrhiza glabra L.): 500 ppm in Radix Liquiritiae

Basil, root (Ocimum basilicum L.): 408 ppm

Sweet Violet (Viola odorata L.): 330 ppm in the plant

Basil bamboo shoots (Ocimum basilicum L.): 230 ppm in the stem of the seedling

Ashwaganda root, sleep berries -Wurzel ( Withania somnifera (L.) Dunal): 200 ppm

Saw Palmetto, fruits (Serenoa repens (W. BARTRAM) SMALL): 189 ppm

 

Edited by timar, 20 September 2014 - 04:57 PM.

[Kevnzworld]

The OP may not be believable but....The active ingredient in saw palmetto is Beta-Sitosterol, an alpha-5 reductase inhibitor similar to finasteride. It lessened my libido and caused early gynecomastia. I tried it as a mild treatment for BPH. Years ago I tried testosterone injections but quit because the shots sent libido through the roof. After using beta-sitosterol I tried testosterone injections again and this time they did little. Dr Crisler has had some results using extremely high doses of testosterone but I didn't want to risk that. The BPH had me getting up to pee three times a night. Since changing my diet the peeing problem has stopped.

kpo

Saw Palmetto has had mixed results in the clinical trials that I have read that tested it's effectiveness in reducing BPH.
" EFFECTS OF A SAW PALMETTO HERBAL BLEND IN MEN WITH SYMPTOMATIC BENIGN PROSTATIC HYPERPLASIA"
http://www.sciencedi...022534705676410

Finasteride has been shown to be effective
http://www.sciencedi...022534705627152
Testosterone injections would give one a very high testosterone count at first which would trail off over time.
Bio identical testosterone cream applied daily is the best form of treatment IMO . One needs to test levels in the beginning to dose correctly. One of the side effects of testosterone supplementation is elevated DHT, which can be reduced with finasteride and possibly saw palmetto. One should also test estradiol levels to make sure that they don't elevate as a result of treatment . Elevated estrogen levels in men can lead to complications such as blood clots. I have had a DVT, possibly from testosterone supplementation so I am aware of the risks and test and treat accordingly .

[i Impulse]

The description of symptoms described by the initial poster are not consistent with the action of Saw Palmetto. 

 

The poster indicated that he developed gynecomastia and became [SIC] fiminine.  Saw Palmetto does not boost estrogen.  In fact, it inhibits estrogen in the body and women taking birth control and Saw Palmetto are cautioned that Saw Palmetto might interfere with the birth control.  I would suspect perhaps that he's using something else that is a hormone disrupter or estrogen mimic.  (and frankly, the story reminds me of another outlandish tale where some man claimed she was stung by a bee and then turned into a woman.  Spontaneously.  No surgery or hormone therapy resorted to.  Which is obviously not possible.)

 

Then, the list goes to osteoporosis, fibromyalgia, ulcers, mental problems (that I don't doubt), and anemia. 

 

Hmm.  While in the worst cases Saw Palmetto will destroy you liver or pancreas, I'm not seeing this in these symptoms listed.  I'd suspect something more along the lines of severe vitamin deficiency.  He's stating osteoporosis, but I'm not hearing about the obvious symptoms of osteoporosis.  Instead, calcium in the blood levels was treated by the doctor with prescription Vitamin D.  Frankly, if someone was complaining of those things, I'd think first that the fibromyalgia (was that self-diagnosed?) caused him to resort to painkillers which could likely cause the ulcers and the ulcers could cause the anemia.  Mental fog --well, if he's deficient in one vitamin, then he's probably deficient in several and should get checked for things like B12 deficiency (which also can cause pernicious anemia). 

 

Frankly, my money is on Troll with a capital T.  I don't think the story is real. 

[kenj]

If it were a hoax, I do not believe you would be able to find hundreds to thousands of anecdotal cases online about this. In addition, some countries such as Denmark would not ban Saw Palmetto as a supplement as they have done.

 

 

Haven't followed this thread, but I just wanted to comment that I live in DK, and I'm not aware of any banning. 

 

I did a quick google search and you can still buy saw palmetto in various products in major health stores here.

In addition, I've intermittently bought and mported (it's cheaper buying from the US) saw palmetto over the last, I don't know, maybe 10+ years. No problems associated with saw palmetto that I'm aware of.

 

(Lots of 'exotic' vitamins and supplements are not for sale in DK, but you can still import most of it, at least from a EU vendor, - but again, saw palmetto is not one of them)