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The Super Rich and Longevity Research

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#1 Link

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:36 AM


I was recently reading a post by reason at http://www.fightaging.org/ entitled:

Natural Death: We Should be Worried About It

This quote -

The greatest hope is that private individuals will step forward and fund the research directly, or through organizations established for that purpose. Maybe an eccentric, farsighted billionaire will want a chance at not dying.


- got me thinking: Why are there seemingly no super rich billionaires interested in funding longevity research?


I mean, as James Brown says "You can't take it with you", it just seems to me that if you had more money than you could spend in a lifetime that you would want to maybe invest in extending the time that had to enjoy it.

I could only think of a few possible explainations -
  • They are not aware of the possibilities, the current state of longevity research and the difference that even a few hundred million dollars could make.
  • They don't think that the promises of longevity research are feasible, or believe longevity research organisations to be a scam.
  • They are content with living a naturally defined length of time and have no desire to live longer.
  • The are religious and believe that they will have a superior or comparable existence in the afterlife.
  • They have a "deathist" outlook and believe that funding longevity research is selfish, or would cause them to be perceived as such.
I was wondering what others thought about these ideas and if they had any thoughts on how someone might convince a billionare that it was a worthwhile investment for them to fund longevity research.

Edited by Link, 25 January 2013 - 04:37 AM.

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#2 Lister

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:19 AM

I could see the Facebook, Google “tech” super rich getting into Longevity but I’m unsure about the older groups. I would imagine that the lifestyle of someone who’s super rich is a lifestyle that wears you out. Eventually you just don’t want to live forever out of a deep sense of exhaustion.

How many Super Rich are on deaths door anyways? Richard Mourdock, Warren Buffett, Richard Branson and here in Canada Jimmy Pattison. They’re probably all invested in Longevity research but don’t want to make their investments public for fear of their public image.

Longevity beyond normal healthy living is still a pretty fringe view after all. The common opinion I hear is 3 to 4 generations before we find unnatural life extension... People need better imaginations!

#3 niner

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:42 PM

  • They are not aware of the possibilities, the current state of longevity research and the difference that even a few hundred million dollars could make.
  • They don't think that the promises of longevity research are feasible, or believe longevity research organisations to be a scam.


These are the reasons, with the second being by far the most important. Wealthy people get that way in part by being alert to scams and bad deals. When you have a lot of money and are well known, you tend to get all kinds of requests for money. Traditionally, life extension has been a scam. It's kind of like a perpetual motion machine, as far as most people are concerned. The one thing that would make all the difference in the world would be a demonstration of significant life extension or rejuvenation in a mammal. We actually have one of those today- the 90% increase in lifespan of Wistar rats fed C60-oo. (For some reason, some "Immortalists" are utterly contemptuous of this.) However, I think that until there are believable replications of that experiment, it will not move the needle much.

It might be worthwhile to put together a summary of the most promising evidence to date that lifespan is mutable, with scrupulous attention to not appearing scammish or nutty, and present it to someone with connections to big money. Maybe get a presentation into a place where the high rollers go looking for ideas and contacts, like Davos or the Aspen Institute? (It would have to be smuggled in, most likely) At this point, I think the SENS Research Foundation is probably our best shot in terms of looking real. They have a new website design, but they still need some help communicating their message.
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#4 Droplet

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:15 AM

It might be worthwhile to put together a summary of the most promising evidence to date that lifespan is mutable, with scrupulous attention to not appearing scammish or nutty, and present it to someone with connections to big money. Maybe get a presentation into a place where the high rollers go looking for ideas and contacts, like Davos or the Aspen Institute? (It would have to be smuggled in, most likely) At this point, I think the SENS Research Foundation is probably our best shot in terms of looking real. They have a new website design, but they still need some help communicating their message.


Another leaflet project perhaps? :)

#5 Mind

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:39 PM

Larry Ellison and John Sperling have funded "aging research", so at least there are a couple of "rich folks" (besides Peter Thiel) plunking down some cash.
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#6 TerryStonefield

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:41 PM

Well possibly the reason that the super-rich don't invest in longevity, and I'm talking about the really super-rich, the top of the top, is because they already have access to it. In the near future fortunes and wealth will become much more valuable. Where once money bought you big houses, and fancy cars soon it will give you primary access to the newest medical innovations. This will include the cure to many diseases such as cancer, as well as longevity processes. These will probably be 'hidden', and certainly not free. Therefore access to wealth, as well as contacts within the elite will no longer be a matter of status, and power, it will be one of life and death.

#7 Mind

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 09:46 AM

5 billionaires that want to live forever: http://money.cnn.com...forever.fortune

Now we are getting somewhere. Interesting thing about Don Laughlin & Robert Miller, I didn't know they were so open about their cryonics arrangements - good publicity.

#8 niner

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:49 PM

5 billionaires that want to live forever: http://money.cnn.com...forever.fortune

Now we are getting somewhere. Interesting thing about Don Laughlin & Robert Miller, I didn't know they were so open about their cryonics arrangements - good publicity.


At least a couple of them seem to be putting their money into things that might be useful, but I'm dismayed that there's not a single mention of SENS. The last guy, Miller, only mentions funding Alcor. That's kind of like saying you're going to wait it out and let someone else fund the technology that will actually do something. Cryonics is just a holding tank, not a solution. Most of them are old enough that they will need that holding tank, though, so it's not completely wrong. Itskov, the one guy young enough to personally benefit from SENS's biological approach instead chooses the artificial substrate track, which IMHO will take a lot longer to really work than SENS would, were it funded adequately. Well, go figure. Being a billionaire is great, but you can't buy wisdom.

#9 Mind

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 03:51 PM

5 billionaires that want to live forever: http://money.cnn.com...forever.fortune

Now we are getting somewhere. Interesting thing about Don Laughlin & Robert Miller, I didn't know they were so open about their cryonics arrangements - good publicity.


At least a couple of them seem to be putting their money into things that might be useful, but I'm dismayed that there's not a single mention of SENS. The last guy, Miller, only mentions funding Alcor. That's kind of like saying you're going to wait it out and let someone else fund the technology that will actually do something. Cryonics is just a holding tank, not a solution. Most of them are old enough that they will need that holding tank, though, so it's not completely wrong. Itskov, the one guy young enough to personally benefit from SENS's biological approach instead chooses the artificial substrate track, which IMHO will take a lot longer to really work than SENS would, were it funded adequately. Well, go figure. Being a billionaire is great, but you can't buy wisdom.


Quite right of course. Sadly, Peter Thiel is the only one who has jumped on the SENS bandwagon, which is pretty strange. SENS people are well-integrated into the Silicon Valley social scene, yet all of those tech millionaires and hardly any money for SENS. So much for forward-thinking.

#10 Bron

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:29 PM

Sumner Redstone said he wants to live forever and my guess is he puts a lot of money into keeping himself as healthy as possible.

There is also a Russian billionaire, whose name I never took the time to memorize, stated he never wants to die (looked at Mind's list and I think he was the first guy).

Also I hope people are cognizant of the fact that SENS and de Grey are not without critics. And I am not trying to stir anything up, it is a reality. I love de Grey, but even Leonard Hayflick called him misguided.

#11 Mind

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:42 PM

Sumner Redstone said he wants to live forever and my guess is he puts a lot of money into keeping himself as healthy as possible.

There is also a Russian billionaire, whose name I never took the time to memorize, stated he never wants to die (looked at Mind's list and I think he was the first guy).

Also I hope people are cognizant of the fact that SENS and de Grey are not without critics. And I am not trying to stir anything up, it is a reality. I love de Grey, but even Leonard Hayflick called him misguided.


Good points Bron I mentioned SENS mainly because it is a well known org among LongeCity members and has a well-defined program to tackle the problem. SENS is critiqued of course, but for those who think SENS is misguided, they (tech millionaires and billionaires) could invest in organ printing at Methusleah Foundation. They don't. They could invest in Michael Rose's "biological immortality" research. They don't. They did invest in Sierra Sciences (up until 2008), but now they don't.

Seeing the lack of support for hardly any leading-edge rejuvenation research makes me think these "critiques", really - at the core - are not based on science. I think it is just smoke screen.

Edited by Mind, 09 April 2013 - 05:14 PM.


#12 niner

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:12 PM

Also I hope people are cognizant of the fact that SENS and de Grey are not without critics. And I am not trying to stir anything up, it is a reality. I love de Grey, but even Leonard Hayflick called him misguided.


There have been critics, but none of them seem to be able to convincingly demonstrate a problem with SENS. They just don't seem to "like" it. Can you find any critiques that are valid? Hayflick can say what he wants, but does he have an actual argument, or is he just nay-saying?

#13 Bron

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:48 PM

Also I hope people are cognizant of the fact that SENS and de Grey are not without critics. And I am not trying to stir anything up, it is a reality. I love de Grey, but even Leonard Hayflick called him misguided.


There have been critics, but none of them seem to be able to convincingly demonstrate a problem with SENS. They just don't seem to "like" it. Can you find any critiques that are valid? Hayflick can say what he wants, but does he have an actual argument, or is he just nay-saying?


No, I haven't found any critiques that are anything more than ad-hominem arguments against de Grey himself, ie. the popular one "he is not a biologist". Hayflick didn't have much of an argument, it was just an email he sent to a reporter circa 2005. He was just nay-saying, particularly at the idea that serious life-extension would happen anytime soon.

I personally find de Grey inspiring and plan to read "Ending Aging" right after I am done with "A Storm of Swords", plus I am no expert, I just literally heard of SENS about a few months ago.

I was just trying to point out that this is probably one of the reasons why it doesn't get more attention and/or funding, which really equates to what you emphasized, people just don't believe this to be credible.

I am no detractor, life-extension (like de Grey I don't really like the term immortalist) is the future of mankind, whether people want it or not, it's coming, as it has been happening even right now. Average life expectancy has been and will continue to climb.

And unlike people like Neil deGrasse Tyson, I am not even hesitant in the least bit about welcoming it with open arms. Global governance coupled with life extension will, I think, truly propel humanity into a great future, the kind that we all fantasize about when we get lost in science fiction universes.

Edited by Bron, 09 April 2013 - 05:49 PM.


#14 Bron

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:56 PM

Sumner Redstone said he wants to live forever and my guess is he puts a lot of money into keeping himself as healthy as possible.

There is also a Russian billionaire, whose name I never took the time to memorize, stated he never wants to die (looked at Mind's list and I think he was the first guy).

Also I hope people are cognizant of the fact that SENS and de Grey are not without critics. And I am not trying to stir anything up, it is a reality. I love de Grey, but even Leonard Hayflick called him misguided.


Good points Bron I mentioned SENS mainly because it is a well known org among LongeCity members and has a well-defined program to tackle the problem. SENS is critiqued of course, but for those who think SENS is misguided, they (tech millionaires and billionaires) could invest in organ printing at Methusleah Foundation. They don't. They could invest in Michael Rose's "biological immortality" research. They don't. They did invest in Sierra Sciences (up until 2008), but now they don't.

Seeing the lack of support for hardly any leading-edge rejuvenation research makes me think these "critiques", really - at the core - are not based on science. I think it is just smoke screen.


Yea, I don't know, I can't explain it. The majority of philanthropic billionaires seem to follow the Bill Gates route, I guess they don't want to be viewed as selfish and want to leave some sort of selfless legacy I suppose.

I can only imagine the criticism people would lodge at a billionaire whose main philanthropic cause was immortality research.

Then again, I have never been in these people's world, so I truly don't know what goes through their heads and don't quite know how to psychoanalyze their acts or intentions.

Greed could also play a role. They don't want to depart with funds that they think may be essential to their own longevity or the longevity of their offspring. Maybe they want to keep the assets through some sort of holding while they are cryogenically suspended.

#15 pleb

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:06 AM

regarding millionaires and the super rich, I don't think they really know about longevity as we understand it on Longecity they really have no idea how far medical research has progressed or what's being discovered about why we age and die, and wont for a few years yet, it will take a major breakthrough with the attendant publicity to convince them, dribs and drabs aint going to do it,

the same for the majority of the population,
they have heard of cryonics and think that's as far as it has gone, its a question of advertising getting the message out there,
the longevity forums and site's are pretty much fringe items for the majority of people including the rich,,

from reading Hayflick he believes there is a natural length to life and we shouldn't try to change it that's fairly obvious from his writing,

even friends who i have discussed this with think I'm crazy, sadly we are in the same league as tree huggers ,

#16 ihatesnow

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:21 PM

http://money.cnn.com...tune/index.html

#17 Sinter

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:08 AM

  • They are not aware of the possibilities, the current state of longevity research and the difference that even a few hundred million dollars could make.
  • They don't think that the promises of longevity research are feasible, or believe longevity research organisations to be a scam.


These are the reasons, with the second being by far the most important. Wealthy people get that way in part by being alert to scams and bad deals. When you have a lot of money and are well known, you tend to get all kinds of requests for money. Traditionally, life extension has been a scam. It's kind of like a perpetual motion machine, as far as most people are concerned. The one thing that would make all the difference in the world would be a demonstration of significant life extension or rejuvenation in a mammal. We actually have one of those today- the 90% increase in lifespan of Wistar rats fed C60-oo. (For some reason, some "Immortalists" are utterly contemptuous of this.) However, I think that until there are believable replications of that experiment, it will not move the needle much.

It might be worthwhile to put together a summary of the most promising evidence to date that lifespan is mutable, with scrupulous attention to not appearing scammish or nutty, and present it to someone with connections to big money. Maybe get a presentation into a place where the high rollers go looking for ideas and contacts, like Davos or the Aspen Institute? (It would have to be smuggled in, most likely) At this point, I think the SENS Research Foundation is probably our best shot in terms of looking real. They have a new website design, but they still need some help communicating their message.


Agreed. I think it needs to be put forth in such a way that it will be digestible to those in the mainstream. I think someone who writes a book doing just that will take in millions.

#18 niner

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:12 AM

It might be worthwhile to put together a summary of the most promising evidence to date that lifespan is mutable, with scrupulous attention to not appearing scammish or nutty, and present it to someone with connections to big money. Maybe get a presentation into a place where the high rollers go looking for ideas and contacts, like Davos or the Aspen Institute? (It would have to be smuggled in, most likely) At this point, I think the SENS Research Foundation is probably our best shot in terms of looking real. They have a new website design, but they still need some help communicating their message.


Agreed. I think it needs to be put forth in such a way that it will be digestible to those in the mainstream. I think someone who writes a book doing just that will take in millions.


Well, the book has been done, but I don't think they made millions. It's a great book, though. I think we need something that's more like an executive summary. Ideally it would be authored or vouched for by a bunch of Nobel laureates in order to give it that smell of credibility that people find so appealing.

#19 Link

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:29 PM

One person that I have been hoping that might come out in support of longevity research for some time was Elon Musk. The guy has big ambitions for his own life, to the point that he will likely struggle to achieve them in a normal lifespan, and is obviously not afraid to take on challenges that a lot of people think are crazy (mars colony, electric cars, hyperloop etc).

In this video, only released recently, Elon talks about the possibility of a future demographic collapse due to a below replacement birth rate. The obvious answer to this dilema is radical healthy life extension and with his $6+ billion Elon Musk could very well make a huge difference. Hopefully he will get on board soon.


Edited by Link, 05 February 2014 - 02:31 PM.


#20 Castiel

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:00 AM

There have been critics, but none of them seem to be able to convincingly demonstrate a problem with SENS. They just don't seem to "like" it. Can you find any critiques that are valid? Hayflick can say what he wants, but does he have an actual argument, or is he just nay-saying?


My personal critique is that the solutions of sens if they're needed for extreme longevity should already exist in some form in negligible senescence organisms, and if they don't exist in them then most may be overengineering and maybe we could do with a simpler solution. As for billionaires they could probably help expedite research by a few decades. But in 5-10 years computational power akin to the human brain will be available for a reasonable price with likely thousands if not millions of researchers the software side of the equation won't be long before it's solved, once agi is present the problem of aging will likely be dealt with shortly after.

#21 Bogomoletz II

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:30 AM


There is also a Russian billionaire, whose name I never took the time to memorize, stated he never wants to die (looked at Mind's list and I think he was the first guy).

 

 

Must have been Dmitry Itskov.



#22 belgin fish

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 06:22 AM

There's a few people that have said within the next 20 or so years we'll have the technology to download your brain onto a hard drive, maybe that will be the key to unfinite life. The rich downloading their brains and then simply loading it onto a new body when theirs gets too old.



#23 methuselah67

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 12:10 PM

There's a few people that have said within the next 20 or so years we'll have the technology to download your brain onto a hard drive, maybe that will be the key to unfinite life. The rich downloading their brains and then simply loading it onto a new body when theirs gets too old.

But then you run in to the problem of 'is that really you?'  Or just another person that happens to have all your memories?  All the while still being trapped in your dying coil.  

 

Also if the super rich could find a way to accomplish this, why would they share it?  They could live on as gods.  And if everyone else could get it, the planet would be over populated with in a matter of generations.  Approximately 55 million people die each year world wide.  In 20 years that would be roughly another billion people on the planet.

 

That's my 2 cents.

 

BTW: The book that got me interested in sci-fi was by Roger Zelazny 'Lord of Light'.


Edited by methuselah67, 28 May 2014 - 12:20 PM.






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