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Effect of Dietary Fat on LDL Size Influenced by Apolipoprotein E Genotype in Healthy Subjects

apoe3/4 ldl size dietary fat

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9 replies to this topic

#1 Elus

  • Location:Interdimensional Space

Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:17 PM


Any thoughts? I read this layman's article here which explains how smaller LDL particle size is a better predictor for increased risk of heart disease, and how high carbohydrate diets decrease the size of LDL particles.

The paper below claims the opposite if you are ApoE3/4.

I'm ApoE3/4, and I've discussed this topic on longecity before, so I guess I'll continue eating a higher carbohydrate diet and reduce my fat intake.

Free full paper download here: http://www.mediafire...882l7tb2w2q1n0t

LDL'>http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/10/2517.abstract']LDL particle size is dependent on both genetic factors and environmental factors such as dietary fat composition. The apolipoprotein E (apoE) genotype is a major genetic determinant of LDL size. Thus, the aim of this work was to study whether the apoE genotype interacts with the quantity and quality of dietary fat, modifying LDL size in young healthy subjects. Healthy subjects (n = 84; 66 apoE 3/3, 8 apoE 4/3, 10 apoE 3/2) were subjected to 3 dietary periods, each lasting 4 wk. The first was an SFA-enriched diet (38% fat, 20% SFA), which was followed by a carbohydrate (CHO)-rich diet (30% fat, < 10% SFA, 55% carbohydrate) or a monounsaturated fatty acid (MUFA) olive oil–rich diet (38% fat, 22% MUFA) following a randomized crossover design. At the end of each diet period, LDL particle size and plasma levels of total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol (LDL-C), HDL-C, apoB, apoA-I, and triacylglycerols were determined. LDL particle size was significantly higher (P < 0.04) in subjects with the apoE 4/3 genotype compared with those with apoE 3/3 and apoE 3/2 in the basal state. LDL size was smaller (P < 0.02) after the CHO diet than after the MUFA or SFA diets. After the CHO diet, a significant increase in LDL particle size (P < 0.035) was noted with respect to the MUFA diet in apoE 4/3 subjects, whereas a significant decrease was observed in the apoE 3/3 individuals (P < 0.043). In conclusion, a Mediterranean diet, high in MUFA-fat increases LDL particle size compared with a CHO diet, and this effect is dependent of apoE genotypes.


→ source (external link)

Edited by Elus, 16 February 2013 - 07:22 PM.


#2 James Cain Re: Effect of Dietary Fat on LDL Size Influenced by Apolipoprotein E Genotype in Healthy Subjects

  • Location:Illinois

Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:58 PM

The abstract actually says "LDL size was smaller (P < 0.02) after the CHO diet than after the MUFA or SFA diets" in the ApoE4 group, and the full-text conclusions says "Our results showed that replacement of a CHO diet by a
MUFA diet increased the LDL-size in apoE 3/3 young healthy subjects, whereas it decreased LDL-size in apoE 4/3 subjects." I've seen a few papers that show this, and the general consensus is that MUFA/PUFA > CHO > SFA for reductions in LDL-size and particle number (APO-B), which I think is the more relevant finding. At least this is for "moderate" diets as in this paper, in which the CHO diet was 28% of calories with 275 mg/d cholesterol!

If one were concerned about their ApoE4 status, the effects of these "moderate" diets with minor alterations are insignificant with respect to severely lowering total fat or cholesterol intake, the latter being probably more important. They also only took in about 25 g/d fiber on 2450 kcal/d, so they were probably not eating much in the way of a plant-heavy diet, which again has far better lipid-modifying results than minor changes in dietary fat composition. To this effect, I have a thread on here where I described my ApoE 4/4 status and beginning a plant-based vegan diet quite high in MUFA, total fat, and calories. From what I've seen with myself and others, and the limited relevant research, the results were far and away more significant than the "moderate" diets used in the studies like the one you posted.
  • like x 1

#3 Elus Re: Effect of Dietary Fat on LDL Size Influenced by Apolipoprotein E Genotype in Healthy Subjects

  • Location:Interdimensional Space

Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:42 PM

The abstract actually says "LDL size was smaller (P < 0.02) after the CHO diet than after the MUFA or SFA diets" in the ApoE4 group, and the full-text conclusions says "Our results showed that replacement of a CHO diet by a
MUFA diet increased the LDL-size in apoE 3/3 young healthy subjects, whereas it decreased LDL-size in apoE 4/3 subjects." I've seen a few papers that show this, and the general consensus is that MUFA/PUFA > CHO > SFA for reductions in LDL-size and particle number (APO-B), which I think is the more relevant finding. At least this is for "moderate" diets as in this paper, in which the CHO diet was 28% of calories with 275 mg/d cholesterol!


Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you..

The goal is to increase LDL particle size, right? If so, then doesn't the paper suggest that the CHO diet works better for the apoE 4/3 subjects? The apoE 3/4 subjects had the highest LDL size on a CHO diet.

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If one were concerned about their ApoE4 status, the effects of these "moderate" diets with minor alterations are insignificant with respect to severely lowering total fat or cholesterol intake, the latter being probably more important. They also only took in about 25 g/d fiber on 2450 kcal/d, so they were probably not eating much in the way of a plant-heavy diet, which again has far better lipid-modifying results than minor changes in dietary fat composition.


Great points. Also had not thought of looking at their fiber.

To this effect, I have a thread on here where I described my ApoE 4/4 status and beginning a plant-based vegan diet quite high in MUFA, total fat, and calories. From what I've seen with myself and others, and the limited relevant research, the results were far and away more significant than the "moderate" diets used in the studies like the one you posted.


Nice thread! I look forward to seeing your number on the next blood test. For anyone reading, it's here.

Edited by Elus, 17 February 2013 - 06:43 PM.


#4 James Cain Re: Effect of Dietary Fat on LDL Size Influenced by Apolipoprotein E Genotype in Healthy Subjects

  • Location:Illinois

Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:57 PM

Wow, I had this completely backwards! Even my quoted text says as much--guess I'm not totally with it today. Seems the CHO diet did increase LDL size and, at least compared to SFA, reduce ApoB.

Honestly though, from what I've read I'm primarily concerned with LDL particle count--essentially ApoB--and secondarily (if at all these days, the more I read) LDL-size. LDL particles are at best less atherogenic at a larger size, and LDL-p tracks much more directly with atherogenicity. I'm not saying size is irrelevant, just that compared to LDL-p or ApoB I'm less impressed unless there's a major difference. As I alluded to, at some point I think I sort of checked out of the whole debate over this minutia in "moderate" diets as the few percent change just isn't worth the effort compared to the much larger returns of a vegan diet. I'm also biased as I'm ApoE 4/4, so any effects positive or negative will be more pronounced, though I'd imagine the effects would be nearly as beneficial for ApoE 3/4.
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#5 Jreinhal Re: Effect of Dietary Fat on LDL Size Influenced by Apolipoprotein E Genotype in Healthy Subjects

  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 22 February 2013 - 06:38 PM

How do you determine your ApoE type?

#6 12 String Re: Effect of Dietary Fat on LDL Size Influenced by Apolipoprotein E Genotype in Healthy Subjects

  • Location:South Carolina

Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:22 PM

How do you determine your ApoE type?

My provider uses Health Diagnostics Lab, but it might be part of other Lipid panels .

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#7 Jreinhal Re: Effect of Dietary Fat on LDL Size Influenced by Apolipoprotein E Genotype in Healthy Subjects

  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:57 AM

Oh wow, I was never aware of that test. Thank you

#8 Hebbeh Re: Effect of Dietary Fat on LDL Size Influenced by Apolipoprotein E Genotype in Healthy Subjects

Posted 23 February 2013 - 03:32 AM

How do you determine your ApoE type?


Have your DNA sampled and tested...tons of info about your genetics for about $99....as an example:

https://www.23andme.com/howitworks/

23andMe is a DNA analysis service providing information and tools for individuals to learn about and explore their DNA. We use the Illumina OmniExpress Plus Genotyping BeadChip (shown here). In addition to the variants already included on the chip by Illumina, we've included our own, customized set of variants relating to conditions and traits that are interesting. Technical information on the performance of the chip can be found on Illumina's website.



#9 MarkES Re: Effect of Dietary Fat on LDL Size Influenced by Apolipoprotein E Genotype in Healthy Subjects

  • Location:US

Posted 23 February 2013 - 05:54 PM

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I'm ApoE 3/4 also and I've scratched my head over this study before. An interesting observation in the table is how LDL-size is always largest for apoE 3/4 compared to 3/3 and 3/2. So, does that mean ApoE 3/4 is better wrt CVD risk? ... it's the opposite of expected ... additionally, familial hypercholesterolemia (FH) tend to have large LDL-size, yet a 3x risk for heart disease, and so a case where large LDL-size does not appear protective.

I'd concur with James. It seems that LDL-P (LDL particles) is gaining more acceptance as a CVD predictor. Some studies show LDL-size loses its predictive value when adjusted for LDL-P, suggesting it's the number of particles and not the particle size that matter.

Note that about 90% to 95% of ApoB particles are LDL particles, so ApoB is a pretty good estimate of LDL-P. Now notice how ApoB in the table is highest for Apo E3/4 - more of what would be expected.

Another interesting observation in the table for me is that all cholesterol values seemed fairly low with the very worst TC at 193.05 mg/dL (4.48+0.47)*39 with TC:HDL<~3.5 ... doesn't seem like a very high risk group of folks.

Edited by MarkES, 23 February 2013 - 05:57 PM.


#10 DAMI Re: Effect of Dietary Fat on LDL Size Influenced by Apolipoprotein E Genotype in Healthy Subjects

  • Location:Europe

Posted 15 September 2013 - 09:41 PM

For the Apo3/4 people the ApoB/ApoA-I Ratio was still lower on the SAFA than on the CHO-Diet.Doesn't this suggest that SaFAs are still a better choice than carbs even for Apo3/4?




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