64 replies to this topic

[PhDStudent]

sorry to bump this thread again but where can I find out more about the differences in the racetams? I'm especially looking for abstract thinking/creativity. How long do each last, how are the mechanisms of actions different, how much cdp choline do you guys typically take per gram of racetam, etc

how would you compare racetams with modafinil?

[Johann]

I started Aniracetam back in Sept '09 with Choline Bitartrate at first and then CDP Choline.

The positives were increased retention and ability to quickly assimilate information resulting in an A minus for a Microbiology class. I studied very little. Also, I developed at times, much quicker verbal processing and conceptual skills. Also calmed my social anxiety greatly.

Negatives: After a while, there seems to be a sense of impending doom always hanging over my head. Additionally, I have fibromyalgia and it would start to bring on a flare-up which I suspect had to do with the effects on the NMDA receptors.

Edited by Johann, 19 April 2010 - 04:42 AM.

[Imagination]

I started Aniracetam back in Sept '09 with Choline Bitartrate at first and then CDP Choline.

The positives were increased retention and ability to quickly assimilate information resulting in an A minus for a Microbiology class. I studied very little. Also, I developed at times, much quicker verbal processing and conceptual skills. Also calmed my social anxiety greatly.

Negatives: After a while, there seems to be a sense of impending doom always hanging over my head. Additionally, I have fibromyalgia and it would start to bring on a flare-up which I suspect had to do with the effects on the NMDA receptors.

The sense of impending doom is most likely the choline causing that, I get the same, try lowering the dosage or drop it all together, I don't get this effect from ALCAR that may be a good substitute.

[outsider]

I started Aniracetam back in Sept '09 with Choline Bitartrate at first and then CDP Choline.

The positives were increased retention and ability to quickly assimilate information resulting in an A minus for a Microbiology class. I studied very little. Also, I developed at times, much quicker verbal processing and conceptual skills. Also calmed my social anxiety greatly.

Negatives: After a while, there seems to be a sense of impending doom always hanging over my head. Additionally, I have fibromyalgia and it would start to bring on a flare-up which I suspect had to do with the effects on the NMDA receptors.

The sense of impending doom is most likely the choline causing that, I get the same, try lowering the dosage or drop it all together, I don't get this effect from ALCAR that may be a good substitute.

Yeah the only time I took choline I had a manic and then deep depression the same day. Indeed there was some "doom" feeling going on.

[Ichoose2live]

RE: THE BEST RACETAM.

It's hard to tell which one is the best. If emotion and money doesn't matter for you, then I'll say Pramiracetam.

Piracetam, the best for creativity, mood, fluency of thoughts and auditory learning.

Oxiracetam, the best for long-term memory, alertness, creativity, verbal capacity and fluency and cognition. Oxiracetam for me is just a better version of Piracetam. It is more speedy and it last longer.

Aniracetam, the best for clarity of thoughts, working memory, anxiolytic, long-term focus, attention, etc.

Pramiracetam, the best for overall memory, attention, motivation, Brain power, long-term focus, logic, cognition, learning, anxiolytic, blunt emotions. It is maybe the BEST Racetam ever, but it makes you emotionally numb. Synergic with Amphetamines.

Edited by Ichoose2live, 20 February 2011 - 12:38 AM.

[gamesguru]

I really like to alternate. I find if I take piracetam & aniracetam on the same day (at the same time), I get slight brain fog. I notice if I do just one of them for several days straight, the effect diminishes. My best results come when I alternate (one day piracetam, and the next aniractam). It doesn't hurt to rotate with choline sources too. But for some reason, the piracetam+aniracetam combination at the same time is NOT SYNERGISTIC as you might expect.

[Ichoose2live]

People vote Piracetam because they don't have tried Pramiracetam.

[Guacamolium]

People vote Piracetam because they don't have tried Pramiracetam.

I voted Oxiracetam because I did have tried Pramiracetam and liked Oxi betterer.

[kache]

People vote Piracetam because they don't have tried Pramiracetam.

You made me curious. Gonna try it as soon as I will be able to get some.

[truboy]

For me i can't say prami or piracetam. It's for different porporses. If i need just do smng - let say some project on computer - prami. But if i need to be amoung people - piracetam. Didn't try oxi or ani yet.

[kache]

For me i can't say prami or piracetam. It's for different porporses. If i need just do smng - let say some project on computer - prami. But if i need to be amoung people - piracetam. Didn't try oxi or ani yet.

Did you try stacking them? What effect did you get?

[truboy]

For me i can't say prami or piracetam. It's for different porporses. If i need just do smng - let say some project on computer - prami. But if i need to be amoung people - piracetam. Didn't try oxi or ani yet.

Did you try stacking them? What effect did you get?

when i stacked them together i felt more Pramiracetam. It's a bit different compared to Pramiracetam along. There were a lot of positive effects though - motivation is the strongest.

[medievil]

People vote Piracetam because they don't have tried Pramiracetam.

Id love to compare it with nefiracetam wich is great shit, nefi is a cholinergic and glutamate modulater, prami increases nitric oxide, i expect big synergy.

[unregistered_user]

People vote Piracetam because they don't have tried Pramiracetam.

Id love to compare it with nefiracetam wich is great shit, nefi is a cholinergic and glutamate modulater, prami increases nitric oxide, i expect big synergy.

Aren't you considered about the testicular issues?

[unregistered_user]

Woops, I meant "concerned" but the edit function disappeared.

[the_newsoul]

People vote Piracetam because they don't have tried Pramiracetam.

Id love to compare it with nefiracetam wich is great shit, nefi is a cholinergic and glutamate modulater, prami increases nitric oxide, i expect big synergy.

Looks like it could work well for ADHD, as it you would be stabilizing your glutamate levels and increasing motivation??? I suffer mostly from motivation and attention.

[medievil]

People vote Piracetam because they don't have tried Pramiracetam.

Id love to compare it with nefiracetam wich is great shit, nefi is a cholinergic and glutamate modulater, prami increases nitric oxide, i expect big synergy.

Aren't you considered about the testicular issues?

I can get my test levels tested; it impairs test production; if my levels stay the same its safe to use for me

[SuperjackDid_]

Pramiracetam really new than Piracetam so fewer have tried and voted .

[health_nutty]

Pramiracetam has the most noticable immediate effect of the big 4. It is quite amazing. On the other hand Aniracetam is the only racetam that is an ampakine (all the newer ampakines are derivatives of Aniracetam). Piracetam has the most research behind it, thus is likely the safest.

[themastadon]

Okay I'm going to try and get a few things straight.

Piracetam:
-Extensively tested since it was first synthesized in 1964. Most popular racetam, by far. Highest average dosage required to achieve optimum effects. Promotes "theta" waves in brain, commonly associated with meditation and falling asleep. Anecdotally, boosts memory, feelings of well-being, and makes some people sleepy. Side-effect profile is virtually non-existant, especially if supplemented with Choline (and possibly MSG).
-Optimum dosing is pretty unclear at the moment. Some, like Hyperspace21 and ScienceGuy, claim that one should ingest 4.8g bid (bi-daily) at a minimum. Others have been taking 800mg daily for years, and still notice effects. For someone who is just looking for a safe route to cognitive enhancement via Piracetam (like me), these newer reports of higher required dosages are creating cognitive dissonance that I have yet to see definitively resolved on the site.

Oxiracetam:
-Middling potency, not much else to say.

Aniracetam:
-Good for endeurance, promotes beta and alpha waves in the brain, good for the morning, good for memory. Anecdotal reports of emotional blunting. Good for writing papers, but very low half-life (1-2.5 hrs)

Pramiracetam:
-Most "potent" of all racetams, reported emotionally muting effects.
-In terms of mg:effect ratio, Pramiracetam is 15x piracetam, 10x Oxiracetam, and 5x Aniracetam. So, a 330mg dosage of Pramiracetam is about equal to a 5g dosage of Piracetam.

Please add onto this list. There's tons of anecdotal reports and other information on the racetams available on the forums; someone just needs to put it together in a readable way for all the newer members wanting to be brought up to speed.

Edit: Midieval, I can't even begin to understand why you're willing to experiment with nefiracetam.

Edited by themastadon, 22 March 2012 - 06:05 PM.

[health_nutty]

I can get my test levels tested; it impairs test production; if my levels stay the same its safe to use for me

Your testicles are more important than for just producing testosterone. Lower testosterone isn't the only marker that is important. Besides, by the time your T drops the damage might already be done.

[medievil]

^^ It damages testicles because it impairs co

nversio

n of progestero

ne to testostero

ne; thus it ca

n be checked.

Argh i ca

nt post here with my keyboard; ill come back whe

never i got a

new o

ne.

Edited by medievil, 12 April 2012 - 01:46 AM.

[Major Legend]

Piracetam, still the most amazing chemical it increases my mental abilities considerably from creativity to memory association tasks, it has no effect on my long term memory though as its not good for studying. I actually tried the calcium and MSG addition, and this resulted in it causing brain fog instead.

Aniracetam, fairly fairly interesting perspective change:
http://www.longecity...ird-experience/
Biggest problem i have is its seriously seriously short half - life I can't carry a canister and redose every 2 hours...maybe a higher dose would make its effects last longer?

Too bad I get bad effects from Pramiracetam, probably similar to the nitric oxide hypothesis of damage. It's fairly dangerous to me. Kind of sucks that its the best racetam for studying large amounts of material.

Tried Oxiracetam a while back with no noted effects, might be worth revisiting, for responders what dosages are you taking? Also how different is it from Piracetam.

Edited by Major Legend, 19 August 2012 - 06:50 PM.

[Jon Ott]

In my opinion, the perceivable effects and half-life aren't important, since the real cognitive improvements are cumulative.

The enhanced vision, increased enjoyment of music, anti-anxiety effects are nice, but they aren't the whole story.

[Introspecta]

Phenylpiracetam and Piracetam take the cake for me. Piracetam more so because of ability to take for long periods of time with high doses. Phenylpiracetam is a once in awhile thing due to tolerance issues.

[norepinephrine]

My main racetam experience has been with pir- and ani-.

Piracetam worked pretty well for me in terms of cognitive enhancement. I noticed a fairly immediate improvement in mathematical reasoning and the effect showed up on some of my exams. I was more diligent about checking work, and had a clearer train of thought in following steps to solve a problem.

Side effects mainly included those associated with choline deficiency: headache, tension, and once - a near impossibility of forming any type of thought in my head (though it's impossible to say whether this was from choline deficiency of massive overdose of cheese - yes, cheese). I also noticed a decrease in libido.

In my case, too much choline brings on endogenous depression, and supplementing choline with any racetam has proven to be a difficult practice.

Aniracetam seemed to enhance piracetam and work longer and more noticeably, though not without it's own set of problems. For about the first 30-60 minutes after dosing, I'd have increased brain fog, though by an hour it would move away into enhanced clarity above baseline. However, with daily dosing I noticed an increased amount of depression, and ceasing ani- also caused the depression to subside. Repeated trials have produced the same results. As well, my socializing was greatly diminished, emotions numbed and occasionally I got what others have called the "roller-coaster effect" - feeling emotionally numb at one moment and depressed at another. Pretty shitty combination overall, and even with breaks I would get these episodes after the first subsequent dosage back - so aniracetam became probably the second supplement I've ever thrown in the trash (bacopa was the first).

Oxiracetam is still being evaluated. I've only dosed it a few times - the first, I was slightly sleep deprived but noticed increased alertness, enhanced mood and focus about 30 minutes after ingestion. I could socialize well and felt fairly outgoing and confident. The second and third time I dosed, though, I felt almost no discernible effects.

Around the time I ordered oxi-, I also picked up some pram-. I've only taken the latter once and experienced a pretty big depressive episode - however, this also came at the same time as a fairly serious personal event (loss of a friend), so I refuse to attribute the depressive episode to pram-, although it certainly could have magnified the experience.

All in all, I'm not totally sure -racetams are for me as they all seem to inhibit libido, and pira-/ani- both seemed to numb emotions and socializing with chronic dosages (and in aniracetam's case, acute ones as well). I'm still intrigued by oxiracetam, though, and would probably order more pira- for occasional use, such as during exams (although noopept is my current substance of choice for that, as is getting some brisk aerobic exercise in day-of-exam.)

Incidentally, it's been iterated before, but I've found exercise and sleep to both increase learning ability and academic performance better than most of the substances promoted on this forum and elsewhere. In my case, just 15-20 minutes of aerobic exercise in the morning quickly dissipates mental fog and makes academic concepts easier to grasp (while also boosting my attention span), whereas weight training a few times a week has a fairly noticeable effect on libido, motivation and socializing (testosterone being the obvious reason, though I believe heavy resistance training may also upregulate certain dopamine receptors).

[lifebuddy]

You forgot Noopept! And Nefiracetam, and phenyl. Though I doubt many people have tried phenyl, and Nefi has an undeserved bad reputation.

[avelez]

I use all of these. Depending on what you need it for is where you should go in terms of trying out. If I were to pick a best, I would say Pramiracetam as that is the strongest in my opinion of all the other racetams - but I only take this when I need some big time memory boosts. Otherwise, I use Aniracetam.

[arjacent]

The best in terms of the most "discernible" and immediate effect was oxiracetam. I felt improved concentration, quicker reflexes, and better verbal acumen. It has an added benefit in that it doesn't taste bad and is water soluble. Unfortunately the half-life is extremely short... something like 3 hours?.

In theory aniracetam would be the best because unlike other racetams it targets the AMPA receptors and functions as an ampakine. I was never on it for long because I don't tolerate racetams well and find they are not for me. They impair my memory and induce hypomania. Your mileage may vary.

Off topic... but I would vote galantamine as far as cholinergics go.

Edited by arjacent, 13 December 2012 - 03:36 PM.

[JohnnyP]

I second the notion of wondering how many people prefer Noopept above all others. I don't know if its my favorite but I can say it has been treating me well.