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(NAC) 2013 Safety Update

nac safety

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#1 HeyItsMeLC

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:10 AM


Hi all, sorry if the title is misleading as if there was a published paper on this issue.

The purpose of this thread is to ask people if their positions have changed recently regarding N-Acetylcysteine (NAC) supplementation based on research or personal experience. Would you blindly recommend it to a family member or would you be somewhat concerned. Also interested in opinions about occasional vs chronic use.

Thanks

#2 Dorian Grey

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:22 AM

I've recently become interested in leaky gut and endotoxin and one paper I read mentioned that as NAC thins mucus (well known) that it can also affect the mucosal layer and therefore permeability of the GI tract. Sulfur and cysteine are also known to feed gram negative bacteria which generate endotoxin in the gut.

I took NAC daily for a couple of years, and believe I developed some endotoxin/Leaky Gut issues. Have dropped the NAC and been taking pre and pro-biotics. Feeling much better now! Don't know for sure if my suspicions are correct, but the pieces fit together well for me.
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#3 renfr

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:52 AM

How much NAC did you take synesthesia?
There's one study here saying low dose protects against LPS but high dose may cause the contrary :
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9563752/

The rat dose is 275mg/kg, according to science's guy formula it's 45mg/kg which is 3150mg, according to the study it would become harmful at 6000mg for us.
I'm not sure anyone takes such high doses.

#4 HeyItsMeLC

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:30 AM

The Concern

Scientists at the University of Virginia School of Medicine were studying the molecular signaling involved in hypoxia-related development of PAH when they observed what seemed to be a concerning finding: mice treated with NAC over periods of 3 weeks were developing PAH that mimicked the effects of chronic hypoxia.76 The scientists were not studying the effects of NAC itself; they were simply using it to measure other nitrogen-related transfer reactions in blood. And the doses they used correspond to a human dose of about 20 grams (20,000 mg) per day—far above any known supplement recommendation. Nevertheless, parts of their report were cited in one commentary as raising “the concern that chronic NAC therapy may induce similar vascular pathology in patients.”81
Is this a realistic concern, or is it a laboratory anomaly? Here’s the evidence to date.
The Evidence

The Virginia team’s mouse study was published in 2007. Now, nearly 3 years later, there has not been a single additional publication connecting NAC therapy with PAH in either animals or humans. In reality, a substantial amount of science both before and after the 2007 report suggests just the opposite—that NAC may be instrumental in reducing, not increasing, the oxidant-induced blood vessel changes that occur in PAH. Here are the highlights:
  • In one of the original animal studies demonstrating that oxidative stress contributes to development of PAH induced by hypoxia, NAC actually reduced the heart and lung changes that lead to PAH, in part by reducing toxic peroxide molecules.80
  • NAC, given before and at the beginning of experimental hypoxia, was effective at preventing PAH, including deadly heart muscle changes, in laboratory rats.82
  • NAC protects experimental animals’ lungs from the acute lung injury caused by a variety of mechanisms involving hypoxia, oxidant stress, and inflammation, through its joint antioxidant and anti-inflammatory actions.83,84
  • A study of human volunteers revealed that NAC supplements at 1,800 mg/day increased the healthy respiratory response to hypoxia,85 which normally declines strongly with age and may contribute to PAH.86Although this study was cited by the Virginia group as supporting their concern about NAC inducing PAH, no such evidence is presented in the human study, and in fact the authors conclude that NAC treatment “may be useful for elderly subjects and for patients who have other conditions with an oxidative shift… such as coronary heart disease and malignant diseases.”85
The Recommendation

There have been no further publications supporting this one-time observation made in an animal model using doses 10-20 times those suggested for long-term human supplementation. No human study has uncovered any evidence for a similar effect in humans. By contrast, there have been numerous studies demonstrating human benefit from NAC supplementation at moderate doses (1,200-1,800 mg per day) over the course of nearly 4 decades. At this point the known benefits of NAC appear to outweigh any potential risks. As with all supplementation, people should communicate clearly with their healthcare providers about how supplements and medications might work jointly to influence their health.
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#5 ta5

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:36 AM

I have no problem recommending 600mg x 2. I've taken that much every day for the last 15 years. The number of positive studies is overwhelming. There are more studies almost daily. The last few years had over 200 studies per year with NAC synonyms just in the title. It's been on the market for a long time now. There are few concerns, and I think the potential benefits far outweigh the risks at 1200mg. I keep thinking about increasing my dose to 1800-2000mg per day.
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#6 renfr

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:45 AM

I wouldn't blindly recommend NAC, NAC has been responsible of some severe
anaphylaxis reactions and you should always start with a low dose.
There are more risks if done IV than oral but it should be noted that 50mg/kg IV is enough to cause a fatal reaction : http://m.emj.bmj.com...t/19/6/594.full

#7 HeyItsMeLC

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:58 AM

Boy I dont know. I really want to try NAC for OCD/anxiety but I am scared of this stuff. Literature seems to indicate that it safe and has several positive effects (apart from that 1 mouse study with freaky high amounts that induced PAH). However I have seen a handful of people on this board and others with very weird reactions such as chest pressure, heart problems etc. This would surely send me over the edge and would likely end up in the ER.

Here is one example from these boards...

About 4 or 5 years ago I purchased some NAC and tried it and felt a very discomforting
thing. Not sure how to describe it but it was probably either lung capillary pressure change or
something to do with the heart. I am pretty certain it was the former seeing as how the event
happened within an hour or so of taking it.


Message from another board...
N-acetyl Cysteine / "toxic" feeling sensation the other night really scary

#8 HeyItsMeLC

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:02 AM

"There are more risks if done IV than oral but it should be noted that 50mg/kg IV is enough to cause a fatal reaction"

Great, there goes my false sense of security. Now even if nothing happened my brain would trick me into thinking im dying if I were to try it. :)

#9 Dorian Grey

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:08 AM

How much NAC did you take synesthesia?
There's one study here saying low dose protects against LPS but high dose may cause the contrary :
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9563752/

The rat dose is 275mg/kg, according to science's guy formula it's 45mg/kg which is 3150mg, according to the study it would become harmful at 6000mg for us.
I'm not sure anyone takes such high doses.


I was only taking 600mg/day with 500mg of vitamin-C, but did this daily for about 3 years.

Interesting about the reaction with iron in the study you mention... My iron had become moderately elevated (ferritin near 200) when I ran into trouble. I've read vitamin-C can also convert iron into a reactive/toxic state and originally thought my problem might have been high iron.

NAC also chelates copper, and low copper can cause metabolic iron issues.

I donated some blood, took some IP6, DC'd the NAC and started on pre and pro-biotics. Had a swift improvement. Don't know for sure what the problem was or exactly what fixed it.

Edited by synesthesia, 09 March 2013 - 05:12 AM.


#10 renfr

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:28 AM

How much NAC did you take synesthesia?
There's one study here saying low dose protects against LPS but high dose may cause the contrary :
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/9563752/

The rat dose is 275mg/kg, according to science's guy formula it's 45mg/kg which is 3150mg, according to the study it would become harmful at 6000mg for us.
I'm not sure anyone takes such high doses.


I was only taking 600mg/day with 500mg of vitamin-C, but did this daily for about 3 years.

Interesting about the reaction with iron in the study you mention... My iron had become moderately elevated (ferritin near 200) when I ran into trouble. I've read vitamin-C can also convert iron into a reactive/toxic state and originally thought my problem might have been high iron.

NAC also chelates copper, and low copper can cause metabolic iron issues.

I donated some blood, took some IP6, DC'd the NAC and started on pre and pro-biotics. Had a swift improvement. Don't know for sure what the problem was or exactly what fixed it.

yeah iron absorption is increased with vitamin C intake, which kind of iron issues copper deficiency causes exactly? glutathione is in fact supposed to protect from iron accumulation and toxicity.
the study says soemthing actually good about NAC, high ratio of ferric/ferrous is an indication of inflammation, by transforming ferric to ferrous NAC is increasing antioxidation at least according to this study :
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17852192

#11 Kevnzworld

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:47 AM

I only take NAC ( 600mg) the day after drinking alcohol to help replenish glutathione. It is also would do the same for anyone taking medications that deplete glutathione, like Tylenol .
Quote : " Glutathione (GSH) deficiency is associated with numerous pathological conditions. Administration of N-acetylcysteine (NAC), a cysteine prodrug, replenishes intracellular GSH levels. NAC, best known for its ability to counter acetaminophen toxicity, is a safe, well-tolerated antidote for cysteine/GSH deficiency. NAC has been used successfully to treat GSH deficiency in a wide range of infections, genetic defects and metabolic disorders, including HIV infection and COPD. Over two-thirds of 46 placebo-controlled clinical trials with orally administered NAC have indicated beneficial effects of NAC measured either as trial endpoints or as general measures of improvement in quality of life and well-being of the patients."
http://www.sciencedi...471489207000896

Regarding safety : Here is a in vivo study using intravenous NAC, 100 mg/kg in children with acute liver
failure
Quote : " In conclusion, the administration of NAC to children with ALF not caused by acetaminophen toxicity appeared to be safe and may be associated with a better outcome. The duration of hospital stay was shorter for children receiving NAC and they also appeared to have a higher incidence of native liver recovery and a better survival after LT. Our unit is currently participating in a prospective randomized controlled trial, hence continued use of NAC has been suspended."
Safety and efficacy of N-acetylcysteine in children with non-acetaminophen-induced acute liver failure
" In conclusion, NAC is safe in non-acetaminophen-induced ALF. In this retrospective study NAC was associated with a shorter length of hospital stay, higher incidence of native liver recovery without transplantation, and better survival after transplantation. Liver Transpl, 2007. © 2007 AASLD."
http://onlinelibrary...2/lt.21246/full

Edited by Kevnzworld, 09 March 2013 - 05:59 AM.


#12 renfr

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:56 AM

Boy I dont know. I really want to try NAC for OCD/anxiety but I am scared of this stuff. Literature seems to indicate that it safe and has several positive effects (apart from that 1 mouse study with freaky high amounts that induced PAH). However I have seen a handful of people on this board and others with very weird reactions such as chest pressure, heart problems etc. This would surely send me over the edge and would likely end up in the ER.

Here is one example from these boards...

About 4 or 5 years ago I purchased some NAC and tried it and felt a very discomforting
thing. Not sure how to describe it but it was probably either lung capillary pressure change or
something to do with the heart. I am pretty certain it was the former seeing as how the event
happened within an hour or so of taking it.


Message from another board...
N-acetyl Cysteine / "toxic" feeling sensation the other night really scary

Taking 800mg NAC did give me an elevated heart rate and some kind of hyperventilation. I now take only 400mg and it's fine no adverse effect at all.

#13 Dorian Grey

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:58 AM

"which kind of iron issues copper deficiency causes exactly?"

Copper is the key component of ceruloplasmin, which is what moves iron around in the body. Without copper/ceruloplasmin, iron is trapped in tissues and can not be mobilized.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Ceruloplasmin
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#14 Dorian Grey

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:09 AM

I only take NAC ( 600mg) the day after drinking alcohol to help replenish glutathione. It is also would do the same for anyone taking medications that deplete glutathione, like Tylenol .
Quote : " Glutathione (GSH) deficiency is associated with numerous pathological conditions. Administration of N-acetylcysteine (NAC), a cysteine prodrug, replenishes intracellular GSH levels. NAC, best known for its ability to counter acetaminophen toxicity, is a safe, well-tolerated antidote for cysteine/GSH deficiency. NAC has been used successfully to treat GSH deficiency in a wide range of infections, genetic defects and metabolic disorders, including HIV infection and COPD. Over two-thirds of 46 placebo-controlled clinical trials with orally administered NAC have indicated beneficial effects of NAC measured either as trial endpoints or as general measures of improvement in quality of life and well-being of the patients."
http://www.sciencedi...471489207000896

Regarding safety : Here is a in vivo study using intravenous NAC, 100 mg/kg in children with acute liver
failure
Quote : " In conclusion, the administration of NAC to children with ALF not caused by acetaminophen toxicity appeared to be safe and may be associated with a better outcome. The duration of hospital stay was shorter for children receiving NAC and they also appeared to have a higher incidence of native liver recovery and a better survival after LT. Our unit is currently participating in a prospective randomized controlled trial, hence continued use of NAC has been suspended."
Safety and efficacy of N-acetylcysteine in children with non-acetaminophen-induced acute liver failure
" In conclusion, NAC is safe in non-acetaminophen-induced ALF. In this retrospective study NAC was associated with a shorter length of hospital stay, higher incidence of native liver recovery without transplantation, and better survival after transplantation. Liver Transpl, 2007. © 2007 AASLD."
http://onlinelibrary...2/lt.21246/full


Better to take NAC before drinking... Not after.

Look Here: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16439183


A dual effect of N-acetylcysteine on acute ethanol-induced liver damage in mice

"By contrast, post-treatment with NAC aggravated ethanol-induced hepatic lipid peroxidation and worsened acute ethanol-induced liver damage in a dose-dependent manner. Taken together, NAC has a dual effect on acute ethanol-induced liver damage. Pretreatment with NAC prevent from acute ethanol-induced liver damage via counteracting ethanol-induced oxidative stress. When administered after ethanol, NAC might behave as a pro-oxidant and aggravate acute ethanol-induced liver damage."
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#15 Dorian Grey

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:13 AM

NAC seems to be safe and effective, even in large doses (as mentioned above) with short term use... I seemed to run into trouble with long term daily use. Still, I don't know for sure if it was in fact the NAC that actually caused my problem.

#16 HeyItsMeLC

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:13 AM

Boy I dont know. I really want to try NAC for OCD/anxiety but I am scared of this stuff. Literature seems to indicate that it safe and has several positive effects (apart from that 1 mouse study with freaky high amounts that induced PAH). However I have seen a handful of people on this board and others with very weird reactions such as chest pressure, heart problems etc. This would surely send me over the edge and would likely end up in the ER.

Here is one example from these boards...

About 4 or 5 years ago I purchased some NAC and tried it and felt a very discomforting
thing. Not sure how to describe it but it was probably either lung capillary pressure change or
something to do with the heart. I am pretty certain it was the former seeing as how the event
happened within an hour or so of taking it.


Message from another board...
N-acetyl Cysteine / "toxic" feeling sensation the other night really scary

Taking 800mg NAC did give me an elevated heart rate and some kind of hyperventilation. I now take only 400mg and it's fine no adverse effect at all.



Cool thanks I got 600mg pills from GNC. if I try it I will likely split it in half and chug it to test it out first.

#17 Kevnzworld

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:18 AM

Better to take NAC before drinking... Not after.

Look Here: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16439183


A dual effect of N-acetylcysteine on acute ethanol-induced liver damage in mice

"By contrast, post-treatment with NAC aggravated ethanol-induced hepatic lipid peroxidation and worsened acute ethanol-induced liver damage in a dose-dependent manner. Taken together, NAC has a dual effect on acute ethanol-induced liver damage. Pretreatment with NAC prevent from acute ethanol-induced liver damage via counteracting ethanol-induced oxidative stress. When administered after ethanol, NAC might behave as a pro-oxidant and aggravate acute ethanol-induced liver damage."


I agree, in that study the NAC was administered 4 hours after alcohol ingestion. I should have said that I take it prior to, or the day following ( more than 14 hours ) after drinking.

#18 HeyItsMeLC

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:20 AM

Also found this. Another +1 in favor of it being harmless in normal doses.

Optimal Intake Ranges
There are a few toxicological studies of NAC available and the following observations can be made. NAC in normal food supplementation ranges is without known toxicity and has been administered by physicians under supervision in doses of 500 milligrams to four grams daily. Daily levels of 1,000 milligrams of NAC per kilogram in rats for several months did not produce adverse effects in behavior, weight gain, hematology, liver function and kidney function. [81] (That's the equivalent of 60 grams of NAC per day for a 132 pound person, 80 grams per day for a 176 pound person, or 100 grams per day for a 220 pound person.)

When administered via nebulizer, adverse effects can include stomatitis, nausea and nasal irritation. [42] Intravenous administration could also produce edema and a rapid heart beat. [9]

Larger quantities used for treating acetaminophen overdoses have produced adverse reactions such as nausea, vomiting, and other gastrointestinal symptoms. [42] Rash, with or without mild fever, has been reported on rare occasions with very large quantities. intravenous administration of more than 150 milligrams of NAC per kilogram of body weight within a fifteen minute period may produce toxic or other undesirable effects. [9]

The mouse LD50 of oral NAC is reported to be about 8,000 milligrams of NAC per kilogram in the mouse, and 5050 milligrams per kilogram in the rat. [81,82] For more details on NAC safety, please refer to references 83 through 88.


About The Author

Posted ImageRichard A. Passwater, Ph.D. has been a research biochemist since 1959. His first areas of research was in the development of pharmaceuticals and analytical chemistry. His laboratory research led to his discovery of biological antioxidant...more

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#19 Dorian Grey

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:32 AM

Also found this. Another +1 in favor of it being harmless in normal doses.

Optimal Intake Ranges
There are a few toxicological studies of NAC available and the following observations can be made. NAC in normal food supplementation ranges is without known toxicity and has been administered by physicians under supervision in doses of 500 milligrams to four grams daily. Daily levels of 1,000 milligrams of NAC per kilogram in rats for several months did not produce adverse effects in behavior, weight gain, hematology, liver function and kidney function. [81] (That's the equivalent of 60 grams of NAC per day for a 132 pound person, 80 grams per day for a 176 pound person, or 100 grams per day for a 220 pound person.)

When administered via nebulizer, adverse effects can include stomatitis, nausea and nasal irritation. [42] Intravenous administration could also produce edema and a rapid heart beat. [9]

Larger quantities used for treating acetaminophen overdoses have produced adverse reactions such as nausea, vomiting, and other gastrointestinal symptoms. [42] Rash, with or without mild fever, has been reported on rare occasions with very large quantities. intravenous administration of more than 150 milligrams of NAC per kilogram of body weight within a fifteen minute period may produce toxic or other undesirable effects. [9]

The mouse LD50 of oral NAC is reported to be about 8,000 milligrams of NAC per kilogram in the mouse, and 5050 milligrams per kilogram in the rat. [81,82] For more details on NAC safety, please refer to references 83 through 88.


About The Author
Posted ImageRichard A. Passwater, Ph.D. has been a research biochemist since 1959. His first areas of research was in the development of pharmaceuticals and analytical chemistry. His laboratory research led to his discovery of biological antioxidant...more


Again, large doses, no problems, but short duration... " Daily levels of 1,000 milligrams of NAC per kilogram in rats for several months did not produce adverse effects"
I can't imagine anything other than the copper chelation issue over the long haul that might cause problems, but NAC is a powerful copper chelator. Over several years time of continuous use, this could cause problems short term studies wouldn't show.

Edited by synesthesia, 09 March 2013 - 06:34 AM.


#20 renfr

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:33 AM

It's not the equivalent of 60g, you have to use the HED formula :
Human Equivalent Dose (mg/kg) = animal dosage (mg/kg). [Animal Km/Human Km]
Human Km = 37
Rat Km = 6
Mice Km = 3
That's 162mg/kg or 11g for a 132 pound person.

100g would be insane and cause permanent brain damage :

ADULT: A 21-year-old
woman developed intractable seizures, cerebral edema
followed by uncal herniation after inadvertently
receiving 150 g of IV acetylcysteine over 32 hours; she
remained in a persistent vegetative state.

And that was over 32h which is 4,6g/hour.
Cerebral herniation is usually caused by very high blood pressure, it seems to correlate with the PAH study but this was in an extremely high dose.

Edited by renfr, 09 March 2013 - 06:36 AM.


#21 HeyItsMeLC

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:08 AM

After inadvertently receiving 150g.......WTF!? :excl:

Anyways, yeah. These high numbers are irrelevant in the sense that no one faces that danger with regular supplementation. Anything really in extremely high doses f****s you up, just try taking 100 times suggested dose of Tylenol and see what happens...

#22 HeyItsMeLC

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:00 AM

"100g would be insane and cause permanent brain damage"

On the other hand, in regular doses has proven to be NEUROPROTECTIVE. :~

Edited by HeyItsMeLC, 09 March 2013 - 08:01 AM.

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#23 renfr

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:05 AM

I meant at once not 100g over several months of course :laugh:
yes it's neuroprotective and is a main component in my stack to prevent loss of neurons in the substantia nigra.

#24 niner

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:22 PM

I wouldn't blindly recommend NAC, NAC has been responsible of some severe
anaphylaxis reactions and you should always start with a low dose.
There are more risks if done IV than oral but it should be noted that 50mg/kg IV is enough to cause a fatal reaction : http://m.emj.bmj.com...t/19/6/594.full


Did you read that paper? That patient had severe asthma- she was already prone to anaphylaxis. Then she gets three and a half grams of NAC directly into a vein. You'd probably need 35 grams orally to hit an equivalent blood level. This has very very little resemblance to a healthy person taking a normal dose. I'm in favor of reasonable caution when trying a new chemical, but this is just going to scare people who don't know the details.

"There are more risks if done IV than oral but it should be noted that 50mg/kg IV is enough to cause a fatal reaction"

Great, there goes my false sense of security. Now even if nothing happened my brain would trick me into thinking im dying if I were to try it. :)


See what I mean?

Boy I dont know. I really want to try NAC for OCD/anxiety but I am scared of this stuff. Literature seems to indicate that it safe and has several positive effects (apart from that 1 mouse study with freaky high amounts that induced PAH). However I have seen a handful of people on this board and others with very weird reactions such as chest pressure, heart problems etc. This would surely send me over the edge and would likely end up in the ER.

Here is one example from these boards...

About 4 or 5 years ago I purchased some NAC and tried it and felt a very discomforting
thing. Not sure how to describe it but it was probably either lung capillary pressure change or
something to do with the heart. I am pretty certain it was the former seeing as how the event
happened within an hour or so of taking it.


Message from another board...
N-acetyl Cysteine / "toxic" feeling sensation the other night really scary


I don't know how that person would have any idea what lung capillary pressure change would feel like even if it was happening. More likely they read about PAH and were worried about that. NAC, like c60, is known to produce odd autonomic effects the first time or two that you use it. This could involve sweating, sleepiness, or weird sensations, usually fleeting. This is apparently related to their antioxidant effect. I don't know if the etiology is known, but they don't seem to recur after the first time or two that they show up. Not everyone experiences it. As with all drugs, it's usually a good idea to start with a low dose and work your way up.

Edited by niner, 09 March 2013 - 02:22 PM.

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#25 HeyItsMeLC

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:11 AM

I wouldn't blindly recommend NAC, NAC has been responsible of some severe
anaphylaxis reactions and you should always start with a low dose.
There are more risks if done IV than oral but it should be noted that 50mg/kg IV is enough to cause a fatal reaction : http://m.emj.bmj.com...t/19/6/594.full


Did you read that paper? That patient had severe asthma- she was already prone to anaphylaxis. Then she gets three and a half grams of NAC directly into a vein. You'd probably need 35 grams orally to hit an equivalent blood level. This has very very little resemblance to a healthy person taking a normal dose. I'm in favor of reasonable caution when trying a new chemical, but this is just going to scare people who don't know the details.

"There are more risks if done IV than oral but it should be noted that 50mg/kg IV is enough to cause a fatal reaction"

Great, there goes my false sense of security. Now even if nothing happened my brain would trick me into thinking im dying if I were to try it. :)


See what I mean?

Boy I dont know. I really want to try NAC for OCD/anxiety but I am scared of this stuff. Literature seems to indicate that it safe and has several positive effects (apart from that 1 mouse study with freaky high amounts that induced PAH). However I have seen a handful of people on this board and others with very weird reactions such as chest pressure, heart problems etc. This would surely send me over the edge and would likely end up in the ER.

Here is one example from these boards...

About 4 or 5 years ago I purchased some NAC and tried it and felt a very discomforting
thing. Not sure how to describe it but it was probably either lung capillary pressure change or
something to do with the heart. I am pretty certain it was the former seeing as how the event
happened within an hour or so of taking it.


Message from another board...
N-acetyl Cysteine / "toxic" feeling sensation the other night really scary


I don't know how that person would have any idea what lung capillary pressure change would feel like even if it was happening. More likely they read about PAH and were worried about that. NAC, like c60, is known to produce odd autonomic effects the first time or two that you use it. This could involve sweating, sleepiness, or weird sensations, usually fleeting. This is apparently related to their antioxidant effect. I don't know if the etiology is known, but they don't seem to recur after the first time or two that they show up. Not everyone experiences it. As with all drugs, it's usually a good idea to start with a low dose and work your way up.


Thanks for the input niner, that is very reassuring. I will confidently try it out now for sure, starting at a low dose.

#26 renfr

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:33 AM

I wouldn't blindly recommend NAC, NAC has been responsible of some severe
anaphylaxis reactions and you should always start with a low dose.
There are more risks if done IV than oral but it should be noted that 50mg/kg IV is enough to cause a fatal reaction : http://m.emj.bmj.com...t/19/6/594.full


Did you read that paper? That patient had severe asthma- she was already prone to anaphylaxis. Then she gets three and a half grams of NAC directly into a vein. You'd probably need 35 grams orally to hit an equivalent blood level. This has very very little resemblance to a healthy person taking a normal dose. I'm in favor of reasonable caution when trying a new chemical, but this is just going to scare people who don't know the details.

"There are more risks if done IV than oral but it should be noted that 50mg/kg IV is enough to cause a fatal reaction"

Great, there goes my false sense of security. Now even if nothing happened my brain would trick me into thinking im dying if I were to try it. :)


See what I mean?

Boy I dont know. I really want to try NAC for OCD/anxiety but I am scared of this stuff. Literature seems to indicate that it safe and has several positive effects (apart from that 1 mouse study with freaky high amounts that induced PAH). However I have seen a handful of people on this board and others with very weird reactions such as chest pressure, heart problems etc. This would surely send me over the edge and would likely end up in the ER.

Here is one example from these boards...

About 4 or 5 years ago I purchased some NAC and tried it and felt a very discomforting
thing. Not sure how to describe it but it was probably either lung capillary pressure change or
something to do with the heart. I am pretty certain it was the former seeing as how the event
happened within an hour or so of taking it.


Message from another board...
N-acetyl Cysteine / "toxic" feeling sensation the other night really scary


I don't know how that person would have any idea what lung capillary pressure change would feel like even if it was happening. More likely they read about PAH and were worried about that. NAC, like c60, is known to produce odd autonomic effects the first time or two that you use it. This could involve sweating, sleepiness, or weird sensations, usually fleeting. This is apparently related to their antioxidant effect. I don't know if the etiology is known, but they don't seem to recur after the first time or two that they show up. Not everyone experiences it. As with all drugs, it's usually a good idea to start with a low dose and work your way up.

I was pointing out at the bronchoconstriction, you don't need to be asthmatic to experience bronchoconstriction from NAC.
It is always advisable to start at a low dose whether it is NAC or another drug, that's my point. You probably know if you're asthmatic but you don't necessarily know other things about your own system such as slow acetylation.

Great, there goes my false sense of security. Now even if nothing happened my brain would trick me into thinking im dying if I were to try it. :)

Unless you don't start becoming blue or having a hard time breathing normally then it's fine, maybe you're more prone to nocebo effect?

Edited by renfr, 10 March 2013 - 03:33 AM.


#27 ta5

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:35 AM

It's always a good idea to start out with a low dose, and increase the dose slowly over days, or weeks if it's something new or uncommon. NAC is not new or uncommon. I like to keep increasing the dose to what would be considered a safe but high dose, briefly, and then cut it back to the dose I want to take long-term. I do that to hopefully experience whatever side effects it might give me, so if I start noticing that side effect later, I might know what's causing it. Usually this is helpful for some side effects, but often there are other side effects that I don't notice for weeks or months, unfortunately.

#28 renfr

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:45 AM

it's sometimes difficult to notice side effects long term if you take other supplements.
I have taken NAC for over a month in 2012 and now I restarted taking it, it's been more than one month I'm taking and no long term side effects so far.
It's a great supplement for workout.
Someone pointed out issues with copper and ceruloplasmin so I will keep an eye on my ferritin and iron levels.
They were at 77ng/mL (range 20-495) prior taking NAC this year (test from 28 january 2013). 77ng/mL is OK but I don't want to get past 100ng/mL so phytic acid will definetely be considered, if anyone knows where I can order bulk powder in small doses (100g or less).

Edited by renfr, 10 March 2013 - 04:46 AM.


#29 niner

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:05 PM

It's always a good idea to start out with a low dose, and increase the dose slowly over days, or weeks if it's something new or uncommon. NAC is not new or uncommon.


It doesn't matter whether it's a new or old drug, what matters is if it's new to you. If you've never taken a substance before, you should start with a low dose to evaluate it.

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#30 ta5

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:14 PM

It doesn't matter whether it's a new or old drug, what matters is if it's new to you.


If the substance is new to human experience, I think you need to be even more cautious than if it was only new to you. I meant my sentence to read: It's always a good idea to start out with a low dose, and increase the dose slowly over days (or weeks if it's something new or uncommon).

Edited by ta5, 10 March 2013 - 02:15 PM.






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