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What would be the demographics of who will use nootropics?

nootropics demographics user drug user

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Poll: What would be the demographics of who will use nootropics? (74 member(s) have cast votes)

male age 10 to 19

  1. male age 20 to 29 (56 votes [75.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 75.68%

  2. male age 30 to 39 (8 votes [10.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.81%

  3. male age 40 to 49 (4 votes [5.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.41%

  4. male age 50 to 59 (3 votes [4.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.05%

  5. female age 10 to 19 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. female age 20 to 29 (2 votes [2.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.70%

  7. female age 30 to 39 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. female age 40 to 49 (1 votes [1.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.35%

Vote Guests cannot vote
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#1 Wu Hang

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:54 PM


Doesn't anybody interest in the demographics of the people who use nootropics beside me?

I am a 22 year old engineering student in Canada. There, I want to meet with people who have the same interests.

#2 Adam90

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:05 PM

Probably university-level students and young professionals would be most interested in it, as they have to prove themselves in a competitive environment. So, I'd say people between 20-35, probably with a bias towards males as they are more inquisitive with substances.

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#3 xsiv1

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:59 PM

I'm a 40 year old in a solid career, who owes it to earning a Masters degree.

#4 Mr Matsubayashi

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:39 AM

The young and stupid, myself included :D

#5 Wu Hang

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:55 PM

I'm a 40 year old in a solid career, who owes it to earning a Masters degree.


It's funny that nootropics are more likely to be used for studying purpose, rather than working purpose.

Probably university-level students and young professionals would be most interested in it, as they have to prove themselves in a competitive environment. So, I'd say people between 20-35, probably with a bias towards males as they are more inquisitive with substances.



I would say anybody who is in school would more likely to use this since they are in competitive environment which one exam often determines the final grade of your course.

#6 Darkat

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:55 PM

I use nootropics for work use. Quite surprised that more people in their 30's/40's don't use these substances - probably not enough people voted yet.

#7 Wu Hang

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:40 PM

I use nootropics for work use. Quite surprised that more people in their 30's/40's don't use these substances - probably not enough people voted yet.


It maybe the case, and hey I think that we tend to think young generation is the main consumers of these products, and leaving people in their 30s/40 behind.

Who knows!

#8 xsiv1

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:24 PM

I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years. On rare occasions, I may nearly slur a word or take a moment to find the right one although that has decreased since my use of nootropics just over 18 months ago.

Edited by xsiv1, 14 March 2013 - 09:25 PM.


#9 Wu Hang

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:33 PM

I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years. On rare occasions, I may nearly slur a word or take a moment to find the right one although that has decreased since my use of nootropics just over 18 months ago.


Me took, I am also curious how many nootropic users know about tDCS or things like that. Well we will see how this goes.

#10 xsiv1

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:04 AM

I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years. On rare occasions, I may nearly slur a word or take a moment to find the right one although that has decreased since my use of nootropics just over 18 months ago.


Me took, I am also curious how many nootropic users know about tDCS or things like that. Well we will see how this goes.


If you haven't seen these articles, they're pretty interesting. I've read my share on rDCS and it fascinates me. Sorry for derailing the thread but I believe it's important in the sense of what we may see as the new nootropic devices...from curing pain to alleviating depression:: http://www.extremete...oid-painkillers

http://www.extremete...in-boosting-kit

http://www.extremete...ain-stimulation

Edited by xsiv1, 15 March 2013 - 02:07 AM.


#11 brainslugged

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:42 AM

The 10-19 is not an option, so I can't vote (18 years old male).

I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years. On rare occasions, I may nearly slur a word or take a moment to find the right one although that has decreased since my use of nootropics just over 18 months ago.


I've never actually DONE recreational drugs because of strict parents, but I have always been interested in them. I think that that is how a lot of us find nootropics (I was looking up amphetamines for SATs when I found it, lol. Worth noting I never took amphs, just racetams), and I think that, if you are willing to take noots, you are probably more willing to take recreational drugs and the other way around.

Another commonality is I would be willing to bet that a disproportionate amount of people here have ADHD or anxiety that makes us isolated, and those contribute to illicit drug use and looking for "solutions" in noots.

Edited by brainslug, 15 March 2013 - 04:46 AM.


#12 Wu Hang

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:33 AM

[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363313054' post='571997']
[quote name='Wu Hang' timestamp='1363296826' post='571935']
[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363296299' post='571934']
I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years. On rare occasions, I may nearly slur a word or take a moment to find the right one although that has decreased since my use of nootropics just over 18 months ago.
[/quote]

Me took, I am also curious how many nootropic users know about tDCS or things like that. Well we will see how this goes.
[/quote]

If you haven't seen these articles, they're pretty interesting. I've read my share on rDCS and it fascinates me. Sorry for derailing the thread but I believe it's important in the sense of what we may see as the new nootropic devices...from curing pain to alleviating depression:: http://www.extremete...oid-painkillers

http://www.extremete...in-boosting-kit

http://www.extremete...ain-stimulation
[/quote]

Please post more because I am fascinated about this too. As a Z Gener and an engineer, I know that my future would be full of increasing competition, and I would be totally appreciated if you contribute resources into my thread because there maybe new opportunity being made by these collaborations.

Thanks

btw I am a memory boosting fanatic who hasn't used forums so much before due to course load, but right now I would like to have active contribution and hopefully use my skills to design things in which people enjoy, I really do. (and I turn down several job offers in order to become an entrepreneurs). since I have an electrical engineering major, I am currently assembling team to develop a tdcs machine that's professional quality, rather than a simple circuit product (no offense to Goflow my friends and I are just in love with this technology)

[quote name='brainslug' timestamp='1363322565' post='572010']
The 10-19 is not an option, so I can't vote (18 years old male).

[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363296299' post='571934']
I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years. On rare occasions, I may nearly slur a word or take a moment to find the right one although that has decreased since my use of nootropics just over 18 months ago.
[/quote]

I've never actually DONE recreational drugs because of strict parents, but I have always been interested in them. I think that that is how a lot of us find nootropics (I was looking up amphetamines for SATs when I found it, lol. Worth noting I never took amphs, just racetams), and I think that, if you are willing to take noots, you are probably more willing to take recreational drugs and the other way around.

Another commonality is I would be willing to bet that a disproportionate amount of people here have ADHD or anxiety that makes us isolated, and those contribute to illicit drug use and looking for "solutions" in noots.
[/quote]

I have experiences on various stimulants (prescrbed legally) and as far as I can tell. Stimulants are far more effective than nootropics, and it should never be abused under any situation. I do have ADHD and I actually think I can make more friends from saying that. Maybe Canada is different, or maybe it's just that I am handsome :).

Edited by Wu Hang, 17 March 2013 - 02:38 AM.


#13 xsiv1

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:59 AM

[quote name='brainslug' timestamp='1363322565' post='572010']
The 10-19 is not an option, so I can't vote (18 years old male).

[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363296299' post='571934']
I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years. On rare occasions, I may nearly slur a word or take a moment to find the right one although that has decreased since my use of nootropics just over 18 months ago.
[/quote]

I've never actually DONE recreational drugs because of strict parents, but I have always been interested in them. I think that that is how a lot of us find nootropics (I was looking up amphetamines for SATs when I found it, lol. Worth noting I never took amphs, just racetams), and I think that, if you are willing to take noots, you are probably more willing to take recreational drugs and the other way around.

Another commonality is I would be willing to bet that a disproportionate amount of people here have ADHD or anxiety that makes us isolated, and those contribute to illicit drug use and looking for "solutions" in noots.
[/quote]

That's good to know for me, as I'm a parent of two young girls ;) They're not close to being teens yet but I'd like to figure out more ways in how to dissuade them from use of rec drugs. I should say "abuse" because that's the road taken that always leads to the dead end. I don't think dabbling here or there is harmful, it's the addiction I'm concerned with as well as the age of which such 'dabbling' begins. For me, I rarely did much in high school except drink and do some other things but they were always in moderate fashion despite seeing others ruin their schooling with all kinds of drugs. I knew they wouldn't amount to anything and for the most part, I was right. In some instances, I was totally wrong. One chronic drug abuser from high school ended up getting his diploma and is a millionaire today with a Porsche 911 Turbo and works in the building next to us lol. I started heavier into it much later in life relatively speaking. Needless to say, it took me longer to learn my lesson. Having been abstinent from any recs for 7 years, I've turned to noots to optimize my mental abilities like I use various supplements to augment my physique and help restore it since I train 5-6 days per week. I've got a gut feeling that many rec users turn to noots somewhere along the way in life. I'd also agree that for some people, rec drug "abuse" fills a void that's not being addressed at the root. In my case, it was always gabaergic kinds of things like alcohol that made me feel 'right'. Unfortunately, I wasn't right. Never had any issues cognitively, but mentally have suffered from depression anxiety some years ago. Those issues have now resolved and I wouldn't want to go back. Its for that reason that I take my health somewhat seriously at the expense of monitoring it a bit too much i.e., assessing my moods, keeping irritability in check etc.

[quote name='Wu Hang' timestamp='1363487634' post='572377']
[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363313054' post='571997']
[quote name='Wu Hang' timestamp='1363296826' post='571935']
[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363296299' post='571934']
I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years. On rare occasions, I may nearly slur a word or take a moment to find the right one although that has decreased since my use of nootropics just over 18 months ago.
[/quote]

Me took, I am also curious how many nootropic users know about tDCS or things like that. Well we will see how this goes.
[/quote]

If you haven't seen these articles, they're pretty interesting. I've read my share on rDCS and it fascinates me. Sorry for derailing the thread but I believe it's important in the sense of what we may see as the new nootropic devices...from curing pain to alleviating depression:: http://www.extremete...oid-painkillers

http://www.extremete...in-boosting-kit

http://www.extremete...ain-stimulation
[/quote]

Please post more because I am fascinated about this too. As a Z Gener and an engineer, I know that my future would be full of increasing competition, and I would be totally appreciated if you contribute resources into my thread because there maybe new opportunity being made by these collaborations.

Thanks

btw I am a memory boosting fanatic who hasn't used forums so much before due to course load, but right now I would like to have active contribution and hopefully use my skills to design things in which people enjoy, I really do. (and I turn down several job offers in order to become an entrepreneurs). since I have an electrical engineering major, I am currently assembling team to develop a tdcs machine that's professional quality, rather than a simple circuit product (no offense to Goflow my friends and I are just in love with this technology)

[quote name='brainslug' timestamp='1363322565' post='572010']
The 10-19 is not an option, so I can't vote (18 years old male).

[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363296299' post='571934']
I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years. On rare occasions, I may nearly slur a word or take a moment to find the right one although that has decreased since my use of nootropics just over 18 months ago.
[/quote]

I've never actually DONE recreational drugs because of strict parents, but I have always been interested in them. I think that that is how a lot of us find nootropics (I was looking up amphetamines for SATs when I found it, lol. Worth noting I never took amphs, just racetams), and I think that, if you are willing to take noots, you are probably more willing to take recreational drugs and the other way around.

Another commonality is I would be willing to bet that a disproportionate amount of people here have ADHD or anxiety that makes us isolated, and those contribute to illicit drug use and looking for "solutions" in noots.
[/quote]

I have experiences on various stimulants (prescrbed legally) and as far as I can tell. Stimulants are far more effective than nootropics, and it should never be abused under any situation. I do have ADHD and I actually think I can make more friends from saying that. Maybe Canada is different, or maybe it's just that I am handsome :).
[/quote]

Aside from the obvious treatments for chronic pain, and mental issues...I think the future lies in cognitive enhancement and especially 'mood' and 'motivation'. There are so many people you see every single day who just look sad or look indifferent and lazy. I'm most interested in something that would promote positivity, pro-social demeanours, and sheer motivation. These are the areas that I also believe will come last.

#14 brainslugged

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:05 PM

That's good to know for me, as I'm a parent of two young girls ;) They're not close to being teens yet but I'd like to figure out more ways in how to dissuade them from use of rec drugs. I should say "abuse" because that's the road taken that always leads to the dead end. I don't think dabbling here or there is harmful, it's the addiction I'm concerned with as well as the age of which such 'dabbling' begins. For me, I rarely did much in high school except drink and do some other things but they were always in moderate fashion despite seeing others ruin their schooling with all kinds of drugs. I knew they wouldn't amount to anything and for the most part, I was right. In some instances, I was totally wrong. One chronic drug abuser from high school ended up getting his diploma and is a millionaire today with a Porsche 911 Turbo and works in the building next to us lol. I started heavier into it much later in life relatively speaking. Needless to say, it took me longer to learn my lesson. Having been abstinent from any recs for 7 years, I've turned to noots to optimize my mental abilities like I use various supplements to augment my physique and help restore it since I train 5-6 days per week. I've got a gut feeling that many rec users turn to noots somewhere along the way in life. I'd also agree that for some people, rec drug "abuse" fills a void that's not being addressed at the root. In my case, it was always gabaergic kinds of things like alcohol that made me feel 'right'. Unfortunately, I wasn't right. Never had any issues cognitively, but mentally have suffered from depression anxiety some years ago. Those issues have now resolved and I wouldn't want to go back. Its for that reason that I take my health somewhat seriously at the expense of monitoring it a bit too much i.e., assessing my moods, keeping irritability in check etc.

In my observations, the main cause for drug use among my friends (and none of them ever used heavy stuff, mostly just weed or tobacco) is lack of treatment for their mental health problems. I don't know if it is the same when it gets into the harder stuff or in the real world, but I would assume that it only gets worse.

One friend with ADHD who hated concerta did weed and occasionally opiates.
One friend with Bipolar disorder took up smoking tobacco and extremely heavy energy drink usage (3 or 4 energy drinks/day) during depressions because she didn't like the pharm drug (and she just decided that since she didn't like whatever they gave her the first time, she wasn't going back.)
One of the smartest guys I have ever known was extremely ADHD (but claimed that the meds didn't help) and sold his amphetamines to buy cocaine and opiates and would come to school high all the time off of who knows what (but he still pulled off good grades, that fucker)

None of my friends who were mentally healthy or just had anxiety issues ever even touched drugs, or if they did, they smoked pot for the novelty of it once or twice. I grew up with the same people through my entire schooling, and it was like suddenly in high school, the ones who were previously un[der]medicated started to self-med. The best thing you can do is to make sure your daughters get proper mental health care, IMHO.

Other than that, the main cause of drug use was people being poor or coming from broken families, but I trust that isn't a worry for your daughters. Good luck in raising them :)
  • like x 1

#15 xsiv1

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:18 PM

That's good to know for me, as I'm a parent of two young girls ;) They're not close to being teens yet but I'd like to figure out more ways in how to dissuade them from use of rec drugs. I should say "abuse" because that's the road taken that always leads to the dead end. I don't think dabbling here or there is harmful, it's the addiction I'm concerned with as well as the age of which such 'dabbling' begins. For me, I rarely did much in high school except drink and do some other things but they were always in moderate fashion despite seeing others ruin their schooling with all kinds of drugs. I knew they wouldn't amount to anything and for the most part, I was right. In some instances, I was totally wrong. One chronic drug abuser from high school ended up getting his diploma and is a millionaire today with a Porsche 911 Turbo and works in the building next to us lol. I started heavier into it much later in life relatively speaking. Needless to say, it took me longer to learn my lesson. Having been abstinent from any recs for 7 years, I've turned to noots to optimize my mental abilities like I use various supplements to augment my physique and help restore it since I train 5-6 days per week. I've got a gut feeling that many rec users turn to noots somewhere along the way in life. I'd also agree that for some people, rec drug "abuse" fills a void that's not being addressed at the root. In my case, it was always gabaergic kinds of things like alcohol that made me feel 'right'. Unfortunately, I wasn't right. Never had any issues cognitively, but mentally have suffered from depression anxiety some years ago. Those issues have now resolved and I wouldn't want to go back. Its for that reason that I take my health somewhat seriously at the expense of monitoring it a bit too much i.e., assessing my moods, keeping irritability in check etc.

In my observations, the main cause for drug use among my friends (and none of them ever used heavy stuff, mostly just weed or tobacco) is lack of treatment for their mental health problems. I don't know if it is the same when it gets into the harder stuff or in the real world, but I would assume that it only gets worse.

One friend with ADHD who hated concerta did weed and occasionally opiates.
One friend with Bipolar disorder took up smoking tobacco and extremely heavy energy drink usage (3 or 4 energy drinks/day) during depressions because she didn't like the pharm drug (and she just decided that since she didn't like whatever they gave her the first time, she wasn't going back.)
One of the smartest guys I have ever known was extremely ADHD (but claimed that the meds didn't help) and sold his amphetamines to buy cocaine and opiates and would come to school high all the time off of who knows what (but he still pulled off good grades, that fucker)

None of my friends who were mentally healthy or just had anxiety issues ever even touched drugs, or if they did, they smoked pot for the novelty of it once or twice. I grew up with the same people through my entire schooling, and it was like suddenly in high school, the ones who were previously un[der]medicated started to self-med. The best thing you can do is to make sure your daughters get proper mental health care, IMHO.

Other than that, the main cause of drug use was people being poor or coming from broken families, but I trust that isn't a worry for your daughters. Good luck in raising them :)


I believe that's correct, at least in part. Socialization and ones' environment plays a role for sure as does a person's genetic predisposition for various mental ailments. It's all cyclical in that one affects the other in various ways. I honestly believe that their is some link between exercise (starting at a young age and being ongoing) and mental health and/or drug use. One of my cop buddies often says, "Sports keep them out of courts" from what he's seen and lived through himself as a lifelong athlete. Of course, this tenet doesn't necessarily apply all the time. It's just another piece of the puzzle.

#16 machete234

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 06:54 PM

I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years.

I am a recreational drug user im very cautious with them though and I dont party hard anymore.
Im 27 now and started using softer drugs like cannabis and psychedelics and countless more rare drugs at age 18 or 20 out of curiosity.

The only really bad thing I ever did was binge drinking and I dont think anything I tried compares to that in terms of brain damage or brain chemistry-fucking.

Anyways in drug forums nootropics are allways a topic of interest with people who want to reset their brains after longer drug abuse etc or to get their tolerance down or simply as anybody else because they have to study.

#17 Wu Hang

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:11 PM

[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363489186' post='572381']
[quote name='brainslug' timestamp='1363322565' post='572010']
The 10-19 is not an option, so I can't vote (18 years old male).

[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363296299' post='571934']
I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years. On rare occasions, I may nearly slur a word or take a moment to find the right one although that has decreased since my use of nootropics just over 18 months ago.
[/quote]

I've never actually DONE recreational drugs because of strict parents, but I have always been interested in them. I think that that is how a lot of us find nootropics (I was looking up amphetamines for SATs when I found it, lol. Worth noting I never took amphs, just racetams), and I think that, if you are willing to take noots, you are probably more willing to take recreational drugs and the other way around.

Another commonality is I would be willing to bet that a disproportionate amount of people here have ADHD or anxiety that makes us isolated, and those contribute to illicit drug use and looking for "solutions" in noots.
[/quote]

That's good to know for me, as I'm a parent of two young girls ;) They're not close to being teens yet but I'd like to figure out more ways in how to dissuade them from use of rec drugs. I should say "abuse" because that's the road taken that always leads to the dead end. I don't think dabbling here or there is harmful, it's the addiction I'm concerned with as well as the age of which such 'dabbling' begins. For me, I rarely did much in high school except drink and do some other things but they were always in moderate fashion despite seeing others ruin their schooling with all kinds of drugs. I knew they wouldn't amount to anything and for the most part, I was right. In some instances, I was totally wrong. One chronic drug abuser from high school ended up getting his diploma and is a millionaire today with a Porsche 911 Turbo and works in the building next to us lol. I started heavier into it much later in life relatively speaking. Needless to say, it took me longer to learn my lesson. Having been abstinent from any recs for 7 years, I've turned to noots to optimize my mental abilities like I use various supplements to augment my physique and help restore it since I train 5-6 days per week. I've got a gut feeling that many rec users turn to noots somewhere along the way in life. I'd also agree that for some people, rec drug "abuse" fills a void that's not being addressed at the root. In my case, it was always gabaergic kinds of things like alcohol that made me feel 'right'. Unfortunately, I wasn't right. Never had any issues cognitively, but mentally have suffered from depression anxiety some years ago. Those issues have now resolved and I wouldn't want to go back. Its for that reason that I take my health somewhat seriously at the expense of monitoring it a bit too much i.e., assessing my moods, keeping irritability in check etc.

[quote name='Wu Hang' timestamp='1363487634' post='572377']
[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363313054' post='571997']
[quote name='Wu Hang' timestamp='1363296826' post='571935']
[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363296299' post='571934']
I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years. On rare occasions, I may nearly slur a word or take a moment to find the right one although that has decreased since my use of nootropics just over 18 months ago.
[/quote]

Me took, I am also curious how many nootropic users know about tDCS or things like that. Well we will see how this goes.
[/quote]

If you haven't seen these articles, they're pretty interesting. I've read my share on rDCS and it fascinates me. Sorry for derailing the thread but I believe it's important in the sense of what we may see as the new nootropic devices...from curing pain to alleviating depression:: http://www.extremete...oid-painkillers

http://www.extremete...in-boosting-kit

http://www.extremete...ain-stimulation
[/quote]

Please post more because I am fascinated about this too. As a Z Gener and an engineer, I know that my future would be full of increasing competition, and I would be totally appreciated if you contribute resources into my thread because there maybe new opportunity being made by these collaborations.

Thanks

btw I am a memory boosting fanatic who hasn't used forums so much before due to course load, but right now I would like to have active contribution and hopefully use my skills to design things in which people enjoy, I really do. (and I turn down several job offers in order to become an entrepreneurs). since I have an electrical engineering major, I am currently assembling team to develop a tdcs machine that's professional quality, rather than a simple circuit product (no offense to Goflow my friends and I are just in love with this technology)

[quote name='brainslug' timestamp='1363322565' post='572010']
The 10-19 is not an option, so I can't vote (18 years old male).

[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363296299' post='571934']
I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years. On rare occasions, I may nearly slur a word or take a moment to find the right one although that has decreased since my use of nootropics just over 18 months ago.
[/quote]

I've never actually DONE recreational drugs because of strict parents, but I have always been interested in them. I think that that is how a lot of us find nootropics (I was looking up amphetamines for SATs when I found it, lol. Worth noting I never took amphs, just racetams), and I think that, if you are willing to take noots, you are probably more willing to take recreational drugs and the other way around.

Another commonality is I would be willing to bet that a disproportionate amount of people here have ADHD or anxiety that makes us isolated, and those contribute to illicit drug use and looking for "solutions" in noots.
[/quote]

I have experiences on various stimulants (prescrbed legally) and as far as I can tell. Stimulants are far more effective than nootropics, and it should never be abused under any situation. I do have ADHD and I actually think I can make more friends from saying that. Maybe Canada is different, or maybe it's just that I am handsome :).
[/quote]

Aside from the obvious treatments for chronic pain, and mental issues...I think the future lies in cognitive enhancement and especially 'mood' and 'motivation'. There are so many people you see every single day who just look sad or look indifferent and lazy. I'm most interested in something that would promote positivity, pro-social demeanours, and sheer motivation. These are the areas that I also believe will come last.
[/quote]


It's a really interesting lesson I suppose. Drugs do work differently for different people, which is also true for external device such as tDCS. The only difference is that one can't control chemicals once it's in his body, but one do have control on the current going through your brain if it's operated by external means. The moral of this story may be that millionaires are not the defined by certain ways, and maybe that person is experiencing positive effect with those drugs. The interesting fact one should know is that something works for others doesn't necessarily work for you, which is true to me personally. As an ADHD patient, I don't really have any social problems, or studying problems except lack of motivation, and I agree that cognitive enhancement directly influence one's focus on tasks and ultimately alter his personality. There are many ethical issues regarding to these substances especially in Universities, many believe that there should be a regulation and testing process for such drug before exam/test, which I often question "Aren't caffeine and vitamin also cognitive enhancement products?" Anyway, I believe that we are ahead of everyone else in terms of self-development, but we should also notice that many people are closed minded about things like this.

Regard

#18 Wu Hang

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:21 PM

[quote name='machete234' timestamp='1363719266' post='572857']
[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363296299' post='571934']
I'd be curious to know how many nootropic users were or currently are recreational drug users. Although I don't do anything any more, I used to party hard. Mostly after getting my grad degree but before I found my way into a career setting. Always wondered if I did significant damage to my brain after those years.
[/quote]
I am a recreational drug user im very cautious with them though and I dont party hard anymore.
Im 27 now and started using softer drugs like cannabis and psychedelics and countless more rare drugs at age 18 or 20 out of curiosity.

The only really bad thing I ever did was binge drinking and I dont think anything I tried compares to that in terms of brain damage or brain chemistry-fucking.

Anyways in drug forums nootropics are allways a topic of interest with people who want to reset their brains after longer drug abuse etc or to get their tolerance down or simply as anybody else because they have to study.
[/quote]


I am currently trying to enter into more drug forums and to seek information about the latest cognitive enhancement technology. I can openly say that I support legal use of many medication, and I find it both ethical and medical correct....

Brain is much more capable than one think it is and I think media has portrayed it badly. Many researchers and medical professionals abuse medical treatment daily for cognitive enhancement decades ago, and they keep it as a secret because, you know, doctors always have huge egos.

[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363713485' post='572837']
[quote name='brainslug' timestamp='1363554329' post='572509']
[quote name='xsiv1' timestamp='1363489186' post='572381']
That's good to know for me, as I'm a parent of two young girls ;) They're not close to being teens yet but I'd like to figure out more ways in how to dissuade them from use of rec drugs. I should say "abuse" because that's the road taken that always leads to the dead end. I don't think dabbling here or there is harmful, it's the addiction I'm concerned with as well as the age of which such 'dabbling' begins. For me, I rarely did much in high school except drink and do some other things but they were always in moderate fashion despite seeing others ruin their schooling with all kinds of drugs. I knew they wouldn't amount to anything and for the most part, I was right. In some instances, I was totally wrong. One chronic drug abuser from high school ended up getting his diploma and is a millionaire today with a Porsche 911 Turbo and works in the building next to us lol. I started heavier into it much later in life relatively speaking. Needless to say, it took me longer to learn my lesson. Having been abstinent from any recs for 7 years, I've turned to noots to optimize my mental abilities like I use various supplements to augment my physique and help restore it since I train 5-6 days per week. I've got a gut feeling that many rec users turn to noots somewhere along the way in life. I'd also agree that for some people, rec drug "abuse" fills a void that's not being addressed at the root. In my case, it was always gabaergic kinds of things like alcohol that made me feel 'right'. Unfortunately, I wasn't right. Never had any issues cognitively, but mentally have suffered from depression anxiety some years ago. Those issues have now resolved and I wouldn't want to go back. Its for that reason that I take my health somewhat seriously at the expense of monitoring it a bit too much i.e., assessing my moods, keeping irritability in check etc.
[/quote]
In my observations, the main cause for drug use among my friends (and none of them ever used heavy stuff, mostly just weed or tobacco) is lack of treatment for their mental health problems. I don't know if it is the same when it gets into the harder stuff or in the real world, but I would assume that it only gets worse.

One friend with ADHD who hated concerta did weed and occasionally opiates.
One friend with Bipolar disorder took up smoking tobacco and extremely heavy energy drink usage (3 or 4 energy drinks/day) during depressions because she didn't like the pharm drug (and she just decided that since she didn't like whatever they gave her the first time, she wasn't going back.)
One of the smartest guys I have ever known was extremely ADHD (but claimed that the meds didn't help) and sold his amphetamines to buy cocaine and opiates and would come to school high all the time off of who knows what (but he still pulled off good grades, that fucker)

None of my friends who were mentally healthy or just had anxiety issues ever even touched drugs, or if they did, they smoked pot for the novelty of it once or twice. I grew up with the same people through my entire schooling, and it was like suddenly in high school, the ones who were previously un[der]medicated started to self-med. The best thing you can do is to make sure your daughters get proper mental health care, IMHO.

Other than that, the main cause of drug use was people being poor or coming from broken families, but I trust that isn't a worry for your daughters. Good luck in raising them :)
[/quote]

I believe that's correct, at least in part. Socialization and ones' environment plays a role for sure as does a person's genetic predisposition for various mental ailments. It's all cyclical in that one affects the other in various ways. I honestly believe that their is some link between exercise (starting at a young age and being ongoing) and mental health and/or drug use. One of my cop buddies often says, "Sports keep them out of courts" from what he's seen and lived through himself as a lifelong athlete. Of course, this tenet doesn't necessarily apply all the time. It's just another piece of the puzzle.
[/quote]

There is, research shows that physical health is directly related to one's mental advancement, which means that a good athlete can also study well if he wants to. Mass media fails to portray this fact because we tend to forget to link focus with achievement. In reality, intelligence is just the level of focus one has and his ability to direct that focus from one area of your body/brain to another.

People please also send some drug forum links to my inbox as I am really interested into studying into that. I am currently assembling a team to build a foolproof easy to use tDCS headset, and that's also my contribution to the community members who are willing to push there self-development to the next level

#19 xsiv1

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:10 AM

Hmm. I'll see what I can come up with. It's weird how the powers that be deem a certain chemical as one that should be tested for or banned. Many times it's quite arbitrary and unfair. People will always cheat. There are still cheaters in the Olympics, it's just a matter of fact that they haven't been caught yet. There are state-sponsored labs always looking for the latest performance enhancing supplement/medicine that can't be detected or, at the very least, other masking agents. The UFC tests for marijuana metabolites in their fighters yet marijuana clearly will not enhance performance. lol. It's not known to and know study has ever found it to be useful for such purposes. BUT, they say it's used as a pain agent. So what!!??? Aleve, Ibuprofen, Tylenol, Aspirin, they're all pain fighting chems. So they suspend a fighter for 1 year if he has marijuana metabolites in his system!?? Pfffffffffft. It's a moral judgement and not a rationale one at that.
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#20 Major Legend

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 03:56 AM

The only reason I ever dabbled in recs was because of subconsciously trying to self medicate. I have never been interesting in recs to simply get "high", everytime it was some attempt to normalise or be more like other people.

I suspect most people lurking on these forums are of similar background, people that in some ways feel like they have severely underachieved because of some underlying mental defect that disallows them to function like other human beings, thus they have been unable to reap the rewards they should have in life. (Not getting the right things at the right time, has a big impact on how we perceive ourselves, and how we see the world)

On that note, I suspect most people who are already getting what they want, physically superior, got the right grades, met the right people, lots of relationship options, careers laid out, became a doctor/lawyer etc will not end up on these forums. Therefore its safe to assume a lot of the people who become interested in nootropics or any form of chemical augmentation are people whose lives have been lacking in some manner, and the usual route is via more benign diet/supplementations or RCs/Pharmacueticals.

The most common route I suspect, is that RCs/Pharmacueticals are more readily available and known and the effects are much well documented, so people will stray towards RCs/Pharmacueticals first, most mentally defunct people do not like admitting that they need medical/drug intervention to live a normal life, so they first turn to RCs as a means of escapism, as they learn the hard way that this does not work, due to the severe ups and downs, and perhaps brain damage down the line, and as they google and learn more about nootropics/supplements they eventually jump onto the nootropics thing.

So the root cause is usually some kind of personality that has underachieved and hasn't quite managed to fit in with the rest of the world, but wants to, this eventually turns into a quest for finding the right chemical augmentations to match or even beat the system. It would explain the small interest in nootropics, and also the prevalence of people with underlying problems on these forums, such as social anxiety, ADHD, depression, etc (extent of my thinking capability).

By all means - smart and successful people on these forums are far and inbetween, Longecity is actually a really good quality site. People like me are not smart, despite having good grades I choose the wrong subjects so I lack a professional education and methodology. If I was successful in life, I wouldn't be reading these forums to figure out how to fix/improve myself. I have also myself suffered a cerebral accident not long ago, which contributes my interest in this area, though I already had defunct areas in my ability to be part of the middle class society before that accident. These two things have now triggered a colossal effort from me to fight off my original problems as well as my new neurological deficits.

Unfortunately for me, at least before my cerebral accident I was a genius in many ways, but after the accident I've lost most of what made me different, yet I still have all the problems i've had before, only worse. Therefore I came to the conclusion that - its completely possible to lose the things that make you great, whilst keeping everything that gives you a disadvantage, removing something good does not mean you will gain something bad in equal terms. Its very possible to turn out worst, there are worst versions of you that are possible.

I'm going to harness my guess that most lurkers are young people who have underachieved, and are trying hard to catch up or even dream of exceeding their peers one day (which is unlikely due to the limitations of what even the most comprehensive/well thought out/custom tailored stack can do, when the real break throughs happen - everyone will jump on them (especially the rich), so I think the chances of getting there is slim unfortunately for this brain damaged, underachieved demographic that we seem to be in.
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#21 Major Legend

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:07 AM

Sorry for that negative outlook, it was a bit extreme. I was merely measuring the magnitude we need to improve against the edge other successful people would have, you know years of experience, being a true "natural", good genes, all the connections, education certificates, the good looks they already have. When you work in a big city, it becomes obvious how large the improvement one needs to make to even become "on par" with the sub-elite (yes i'm at a stage in my life where these things matter to me).

Actually my stack has largely normalized me and also given me many boosts which I think will be helpful as aging starts to take its toll. My life has generally taken a U-Turn since my use of nootropics/diet/medication began.

The number one problem I have is the instability of the efficacy of these solutions. Sometimes things will stop working and I don't know why, and it doesn't help that I have a damaged, a little defunctional brain as well, and the expense too. It isn't cheap keeping a high tech comprehensive stack, its hard to see whats working and whats not, or what damage this may even be causing. It becomes a up and down struggle, on days where you are up you feel like you can do anything, on days you are down you feel like everything is pointless. You might be working on a job amazingly for a few days and then suddenly stuff will poop out and you can't even remember/comprehend the brilliance and beauty of what you had before whist doing the job, then it becomes a painful struggle to even get that job done half assedly.

Edited by Major Legend, 20 March 2013 - 04:12 AM.


#22 brainslugged

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:33 AM

I hate the "cheating" argument that people try to make. My main problem with it is that it revolves around education being viewed as a competition. I understand that competition in education can encourage higher performance, but I don't think the competition is the point of the education. The point is to learn what you need to learn and to be able to function and contribute to society, right? So then if something increases your ability to learn, I don't see how that should be anything other than encouraged. The purpose of the competition is to increase the learning, it isn't the actual purpose of the education.

Also, what about environments where the new normal is above the general population's normal? In top unis where the majority of people have monster IQs, concentration, or memory, aren't I disadvantaged if I have abilities that are better than the general normal but less than the new normal that I would be a part of? In that case, performance enhancement is kinda blurred with medical "cure" used to bring me up to the normal level, isn't it?

It also goes back to the argument of rather someone with naturally high intelligence levels is any more valuable than someone with normal intelligence levels who sacrifices time and money on tutors and studying. As long as they accomplish the same goal, I don't think that either is more valuable or that either is effectively "more smart". So, is someone with higher natural intelligence more valuable than someone who has increased intelligence to the same effective level through drugs? I don't think so.

Major Legend, I am sorry for your accident. I hope you find what you need in order to get to the level you want to be at :)

#23 Major Legend

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:00 AM

I hate the "cheating" argument that people try to make. My main problem with it is that it revolves around education being viewed as a competition. I understand that competition in education can encourage higher performance, but I don't think the competition is the point of the education. The point is to learn what you need to learn and to be able to function and contribute to society, right? So then if something increases your ability to learn, I don't see how that should be anything other than encouraged. The purpose of the competition is to increase the learning, it isn't the actual purpose of the education.

Also, what about environments where the new normal is above the general population's normal? In top unis where the majority of people have monster IQs, concentration, or memory, aren't I disadvantaged if I have abilities that are better than the general normal but less than the new normal that I would be a part of? In that case, performance enhancement is kinda blurred with medical "cure" used to bring me up to the normal level, isn't it?

It also goes back to the argument of rather someone with naturally high intelligence levels is any more valuable than someone with normal intelligence levels who sacrifices time and money on tutors and studying. As long as they accomplish the same goal, I don't think that either is more valuable or that either is effectively "more smart". So, is someone with higher natural intelligence more valuable than someone who has increased intelligence to the same effective level through drugs? I don't think so.

Major Legend, I am sorry for your accident. I hope you find what you need in order to get to the level you want to be at :)


The problem from all angles isn't a problem of morals or ethics, it goes deeper than that. Our entire society and humankind and even down to how our brains work is governed by sociability and social status, that means there will always be a hierarchy. Humans in our currrent form (bless) aren't capable of dealing with more than a few humans at the same time, our society despite the many advances in technology is still governed by tribe mentality, this is the extent of our cognitive capability for most people.

As long as tribe mentality exists, there will always be a hierarchy, a manager, a boss, a nerd, a jock, an alpha, geeks, manual labourers and so on. The actual jobs and what people do may change over time e.g. a miner becomes a call center worker who then becomes a bottom end programmer/web designer, but the hierarchy doesn't the programmer is still doing manual labour (crappy diploma/degree) for some manager( Yale MBA) who can't program, the manager working for some boss (High Social Status) who is an alpha, the boss who is working for the shareholders (Finance Guy) which have accumulated generational wealth. Even if money didn't exist social value.status within our society will STILL govern how our society functions.

It kinda goes deeper as social capital can be viewed as money than isn't tapped into yet, such as white privilege, or being good looking ( a hot woman).

Anyways the point is, education has always been a system where people are split into different sectors of the social hegemony, if you create chemicals that can bypass these tests, then it is considered a "cheat" because you are cheating the social status system, if it becomes widespread then the level for entry into higher social status will SIMPLY MOVE HIGHER, therefore tests will become harder and more biased to who you are. The education system is there to make sure if you fail you stay a failure, so that you don't get a chance to compete with someone who has better credentials, even though you may be better at doing something than that other person.

I'm not saying education has no merit, i'm saying the ethics of cognitive improvement antagonises the very foundation of social hierarchy (which education is part of) in the first place. If you can take a pill and make you as smart as any oxford graduate, how else would they differentiate you from the rich folks who have all the tutoring and private education they need? In fact this phenomenon is already happening outside of nootropics, which is why if you want to get into Oxford you better have some connections, instead of just good grades.

Education at the highest level is in other ways a social status stamp. It's a stamp that brands you as "good enough" to work in higher society, or gain access to more promising fulfilling, better paid work. Whether you are actually good at the job after you receive this stamp is irrelevant. Why do you guys think there are so many professors professionals who have no idea what they are doing, yet get paid tons and tons for doing a crappy job.

Bottom line is IMO there will always be social prejudices and unfairness, technology allowing people to get better grades will only force society to create something else to keep everyone segregated into different levels, due to our innate tribal nature and limited resources.

Edited by Major Legend, 20 March 2013 - 09:05 AM.


#24 machete234

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:48 AM

I recently had a realization that blew my mind like 10 years after school:
If you were popular or not highly correlated with your parent's income and it seems to be that simple.
Despite not being the smartest kids those kids also happened to have the best grades.

#25 xsiv1

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:22 PM

I believe nootropics and other pharms/meds are merely tools and sometimes crutches to get the person to a level that assists them in performing on a more efficient cognitive scale. They do not forgo other things that also act as assisted exercises, whether it's physical (to ward off stress, improve sleep and overall health), above-the-bar study habits, sufficient sleep etc. Sure, many who attempt their use do have some sort of deficiency or a void they believe they need to fill...eg., the genetically higher IQ individual VS. The average decent grades individual that has to study nearly twice as long/hard but uses noots/meds to rise to the level....all in the effort for an end. That is, to graduate or get into a career or excel in other areas of life. The genetically gifted individual who has a near photographic memory (as a simple) example, will not be here looking at noots and regimens to help improve what they believe they're already excelling at. If they are here, they're extremely motivated and ambitious especially if it's barring any kind of neuro/mental deficit.

#26 xsiv1

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:11 PM

And again, this goes back to any cognitive deficits including injuries, previous history of drug abuse including alcohol or even simple prescribed med use that's known to affect memory and/or cognition. Obviously not exhaustive list but some of the commonalities to be certain.

#27 Wu Hang

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:08 AM

Hmm. I'll see what I can come up with. It's weird how the powers that be deem a certain chemical as one that should be tested for or banned. Many times it's quite arbitrary and unfair. People will always cheat. There are still cheaters in the Olympics, it's just a matter of fact that they haven't been caught yet. There are state-sponsored labs always looking for the latest performance enhancing supplement/medicine that can't be detected or, at the very least, other masking agents. The UFC tests for marijuana metabolites in their fighters yet marijuana clearly will not enhance performance. lol. It's not known to and know study has ever found it to be useful for such purposes. BUT, they say it's used as a pain agent. So what!!??? Aleve, Ibuprofen, Tylenol, Aspirin, they're all pain fighting chems. So they suspend a fighter for 1 year if he has marijuana metabolites in his system!?? Pfffffffffft. It's a moral judgement and not a rationale one at that.


It's because of profit. Marijuana, tDCS, and nootropics, you name it. These are extremely inexpensive things yet their values to human are immeasurable. How can a government make money over that one? I do have some good ideas about making sure that at lease we can get in touch with the lastest performance/mind enhancing technology, but again there's no way for the mass population to know that because it's too dangerous especially in U.S. I mean we are talking about a country where alcohol is legal and pot isn't.

#28 Wu Hang

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 01:56 AM

Hi, I have been busy for the term project and exam reviews, but I would be more than happy if someone will keep sharing

#29 MizTen

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:38 AM

I can't vote because you left my demographic out!! :sad:

I am female and over 50.

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#30 xsiv1

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:49 AM

I recently had a realization that blew my mind like 10 years after school:
If you were popular or not highly correlated with your parent's income and it seems to be that simple.
Despite not being the smartest kids those kids also happened to have the best grades.


There are even studies that have been replicated to show that those people deemed as 'more attractive' excel to a higher level (ie. Get the jobs) when compared to those considered 'less attractive')





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