25 replies to this topic

[John2009]

I used to take Ginsana Ginseng supplements (G115 standardized extract) back when it was made by Pharmaton. Recently, I tried Ginsana again and it did not seem to be working as well as before. I found that Ginsana has been made by the Alan James Group since 2009. I cut open a ginsana capsule and it had a very thin milky substance inside with not much smell. In contrast, the old g115 extract from Pharmaton was dark brown, thick, and had a nice smell to it. I called the Alan James Group and they did not help at all and told me they did not know if the formula was different than the old one by pharmaton. I do not feel the new Ginsana is being made to the same standards as before.

I think Pharmaton still makes the old G115 Ginseng extract in a product called "vitality" as shown at this link...
http://www.pharmaton...s/capsules.html

I have emailed pharmaton and am awaiting a reply, but it does not appear that the pharmaton vitality product is available in the USA.

In any event, I would be interested in learning of some other quality sources for a standardized extract of true Panax Ginseng C.A. Meyer.

The closest thing I found is a product by "Natural Factors" but I have not used anything made by them before...

http://www.iherb.com...0-Softgels/2631

I would appreciate any feedback and/or other sources.

Thanks,
John

[Daniel Chong Jimenez]

I have access and would be happy to share my ginseng source. Please read my first posting. It is superior and comparable in price to Ginsana. Please contact me at DanielChong.USA@gmail.com

[MrSpud]

The old ginsana formula also had a fairly high amount of lecithin granules in it besides the G115 extract. The G115 extract was standardized to 4% ginsenodides with the rg/rb ratio that shows it is from mature root. I never saw the new product, but from your description, I'm guessing they left out the lecithin granules. They always made it a pain to encapsulate on the soft gel machine. The closest match to G115 would be Indena's Ginseng Extract that is standardized to 7% ginsenodides but with the exact same profile for the individual ginsenosides. I don't know who is using Indena's extract in their products though. It will be called something like Ginsengselect or something like that somewhere on the label. It is good, as far as extracts go, but I like getting wildcrafted whole roots myself these days but they are Panax quinquefolius and not Panax ginseng

[niner]

MrSpud, do you know anything about Bing Han Ginseng? Are they are quality company and reasonable value? Kind of looks like an MLM affair, but I'm not sure.

[MrSpud]

No, I don't know anything about that company.

[John2009]

Thanks for the info Mrspud.

It looks like Swanson vitamins uses Indena Ginselect in their Ginseng. However, I'm not sure how the profile for individual ginsenosides compares to the original G115 Ginsana Extract ?

http://www.swansonvi...-mg-60-veg-caps

What do you think of the Natural Factrors product I linked to in my first post ?

It looks like enzymatic Therapy has a ginseng supplement that uses Phytosome technology but I'm not sure if they are using Indena's ginseng. The product is standardized to 37.5% ginsenosides, which is the highest I have seen.

http://www.iherb.com...60-Tablets/2193

Can you tell me anymore about using the whole roots as compared to the extracts ? Where do you get it from and how do you process it ? Also, how does Panax quinquefolius compare to Panax Ginseng ?

Thanks
John

Edited by John2009, 14 April 2013 - 04:24 AM.

[Daniel Chong Jimenez]

I have two replies to share. The difference between American ginseng (Panax quinquefolius) and Imperial ginseng (Panax ginseng) is their place of origin - Wisconsin, USA and China, respectively. Their specific activity is a topic for a different discussion, but both are helpful for energy and stamina.

Bing Han ginseng is six-year ginseng cultivated using wild-simulated practices and is third party certified for purity. It comes in capsules and whole-root powder. I have tried many types of ginseng products and this is the best. American ginseng is widely available, cheaper and only grown for three-years. Cultivation practices vary from producer to producer and few are certified for purity and freedom from pesticide residue.

Bing Han is distributed by direct market practice and the suggested retail price is at or under global Panax ginseng market price (the price is roughly the same as Ginsana, dose for dose) - Bing Han is the world's largest producer of organic Imperial ginseng. Under their program, the more you buy over time the lower the price becomes, ultimately dropping to a fraction of the original price. For long-term users, this company offers the best value.

[MrSpud]

Here is some info on the ginsenosides profile for G115 and Indena's
G115 is a patented extraction of Panax Ginseng patented by Pharmaton, Switzerland that contains 4% ginsenosides by total weight[73][74] while NAGE is a standardized extract from the same company containing 10% ginensosides by weight.[74] Both extracts tend to be used in research to ensure quality standards and control for total amount of Ginsenosides, with one study noting that purity of the extracts ranged from 95.9-100% as assessed by HPLC; both extracts are rich in Rb1 and Re, and fairly reflective of what ginseng (naturally occurring, noted in the opening section) should contain when looking at the ratios between ginsenosides.[74]

One study specifically breaking down the component Ginsenosides noted that G115 had 1.07% (Rb1), 0.66% (Rb2), 0.67% (Rc), 0.46% (Rd), 0.56% (Re) 0.14% (Rf) and 0.44% (Rg1) while NAGE had 4.56% (Rb1), 0.31% (Rb2), 1.09% (Rc), 1.43% (Rd), 2.36% (Re), and 0.24% (Rg1) with no Rf detected.[74]
______________________________________________________________________________

GINSELECT® - GINSENG IDB

BOTANICAL ORIGINASSAYBIOLOGICAL ACTIVITY
Panax ginseng C.A. Meyer
Root≥7.0% of ginsenosides and malonylginsenosides ≥0.9% ≤1.4% of Rg1 ≥1.7% ≤3.0% of Rb1 by HPLCAdaptogen, Tonic
__________________________________

I didn't scrutinize what I just copied and pasted, I just remember that both had the same profile back in the day when I worked at the company that used to encapsulate Ginsana for Pharmaton
_________________________________________________________

I have been getting wildcrafted American ginseng roots from a small farm in the Carolina mountains ever since I attended a class held there where the owner taught us how to grow wildcrafted ginseng and goldenseal without the use of pesticides and fungusides. He sells whole roots, the large ones tend to be over 10 years old. He said he had some of them tested before and he said some of them tested as high as 30% ginsenosides. Here is a link to his site http://www.ncgoldens...price_list.html Hopefully it isn't against the forum rules to provide that link

As far as evaluating other products, I'm always skeptical of ginseng because of the practice of adding extracts of the leaves and or immature roots to boost the ginsenosides content. You can get high levels this way cheaply but the ratio of the different types of ginsenosides is thrown off which changes the properties of the herb. I didn't check out the links, but it is rare for companies to list the ratio of rg/rb so you can't really tell.

[John2009]

Thanks for the additional info.

What do you guys think of the "Swanson" brand of supplements ? Swanson is using the Indena ginseng but are they a reputable manufacturer ? I guess they contract it out to somebody.

[MrSpud]

I believe Swanson still contracts their products out to be made. Most likely if they list a branded ingredient on their label then it should be what is in the product because, if for no other reason, when you list a branded ingredient by name then the contract manufacturer has to enter into a licensing agreement with the raw material manufacturer. Unless the licensing agreement was recently broken I would think that the raw material manufacturer would still be keeping track of the manufacturer to make sure they are at least purchasing the branded ingredient raw material.

[John2009]

I looked at the ingredients label on the new Ginsana box. Two softgels provide 200 mg of what they are now calling "G2G" standardized extract. Under the "other ingredients" section, it lists in this order, Sunflower oil, Gelatin, glycerin, beeswax, Lecithin (soy), and chlorophyll. So, the new softgels do have lecithin, but I do not know if it is the same amount as before.

Do you think I am over reacting to this ? Perhaps I am just older now and the herb does not affect me as powerfully as before. Or perhaps I need to take it longer than before to see affects since I am older now. It does seem strange that I noticed a difference, and when I took a closer look, it appeared the contents of the capsule had changed and then when I took a closer look at the box, the company had changed as well.

Does anyone know anything about the Alan James Group ? I know they also sell a Ginko supplement that used to be made by Pharmaton, and Koylic garlic.

The thing is, if the box is basically the same, and the name is the same (Ginsana), then the product should be the same. If not, then this is just not right and deceptive to customers. I guess renaming the extract to G2G is their way of getting around things. It appears they licensed the trademark name Ginsana but not the G115 extract, and the extract is the only thing that is really important. The name is important to, but not if it is ruined by not using the same extract as before. It really is a bunch of nonsense becasue unless you look at the box very closely, you would assume it is still being made by Pharmaton and that the extract is still the same, perhaps renamed, but still the same. However, it does not appear that is the case. It also did not help my opinion of the situation when I called the Alan James Group and they were not very helpful and would not tell me one way or another if the extract was the same as G115 or not. I think they said something like the active ingredients were the same, but that is not saying much.

[John2009]

Also, what do you guys think of Jiaogulan as compared to Ginseng ? I have not tried it but I have heard good things about it.

[MrSpud]

FYI- just about all soft gels that contain suspensions of powder in vegetable oil use a small amount of liquid lecithin (about 2% of the oil amount) as a wetting agent for the powder. It makes it much easier to mix in and make a suspension that can be encapsulated. The old Ginsana used to also have a large amount of a granular form of lecithin in the formula and it had to be milled in with a colloid mill. I always wondered whether the lecithin being milled in with the ginseng extract was forming something similar to a liposome. It was hard to process. I'm guessing that the lecithin granules were left out in the new rendition to make manufacturing easier, and because the presence of the lecithin granules was never publicized or marketed as being beneficial. I wonder if a product that uses Indena's ginseng phytosome might give you an effect similar to what you got with the old Ginsana (pretty much the phytosome is just a complex where the extract is coated with lecithin to enhance absorption)? I don't really know though.

[John2009]

Yes, I think the phytosome process combines one part standardized Panax ginseng extract with two parts phosphatidlycholine. I wonder if the large lecithin granular content of the original G115 extract made the product more bioavailable ? Who knows.

[John2009]

I found a ginseng extract here http://www.ilhwakoreanginseng.com/ that looks like it might be high quality, but it is just too expensive for me. One version is $79.00 for sixty capsules and a lower priced version is $32.00 for sixty capsules. I think they sold this at iherb at one time. Just out of curiosity, has anyone on the forum ever tried this ?

I am currently trying the swanson ultra panax ginseng (Standardized ginseng phytosome) which uses Indena Ginselect as it's only ingredient. I have only been using it three days, so it's too early to really tell anything.

http://www.swansonvi...-mg-60-veg-caps

The swanson product comes in 400 MG doses and the ginseng is standardized to 30% ginsenosides. The price for this is 19.99 for sixty daily doses but I'm hoping it may come down as more products use a phytosome delivery system. Some of the swanson brand ginseng supplements are so cheap, it makes me wonder how good they could be, but the one that uses ginselect is more expensive.

There is also a ginseng product called gerimax ginseng that has been used in some studies, but I'm not sure you can buy it here in the USA. Does anyone know where to get this in the USA ?

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/12230906

I think I will also try the Paradise herbs red ginseng, and the natural-factors panax ginseng product from iherb. It looks like the Life extension foundation sells a brand of ginseng called "natures plus" but I do not know anything about that company.

If anyone has used a panax ginseng product that just seemed to work for them, I would be interested in learning what brand and what dose gave what results. The original ginsana gave me energy, mental focus, and increased libido.

Thanks,
John

[Guardian4981]

What is the difference between panax ginseng and "red ginseng."

I have read that "red ginseng" is the best and is some kind of special aged steam process.

The issue I see is its probably near impossible to tell whether something is truly "red ginseng" or simply panax ginseng called red.

This product contains all 4 ginsengs.

http://www.vitaminwo...-complex-007642

[John2009]

Red Panax is the same as white panax, it's just that it is processed differently...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginseng

At the wiki link it says that "sun ginseng" which is processed at higher temperatures than red ginseng, has increased nitric oxide, superoxide, hydroxyl radical and peroxynitrite scavenging activities compared with conventionally processed red or white versions.

I think red ginseng has more of a reputation for increasing libido than white ginseng.

[enoch1]

I'm considering purchasing Panax Ginseng but I am wondering how much of the extract do I need to take for concentration and learning ? Is Standardised ginsenosides 9.3 mg (500mg) effective enough to help ?

Edited by enoch1, 06 October 2013 - 03:39 AM.

[Adaptogen]

there are a whole bunch of "standardized" ginseng extracts on ebay.
has anyone tried any bulk powder extract? is the only thing that matters the ginsenosides?

i'm interested in a quality source. i find it incomprehensible how the prices of ginseng can vary so much.

here are two extracts i was looking at:
http://www.ebay.com/...8532487?lpid=82
http://www.amazon.co...y/dp/B00AVO3LLK

[celebes]

Enzymatic Therapy and Imperial Elixir have the best Ginseng's I have tried and I've tried just about everything on iHerb.

[GoingPrimal]

Hey guys, great finds so far. I've used dragon herbs liquid ginseng extracts, both their cheaper House Ginseng and their more expensive Ginseng Sublime - I really enjoyed both, with Ginseng Sublime being noticeably stronger.

That said, some of these ginseng products being listed look pretty damn good, I think I'll make a purchase come next paycheck and report back.

As to the question about jiaogulan, or gynostemma, it makes for a delicious and inexpensive energy tonic. It is definitely not as energizing or empowering as a good red ginseng, but as an every day and delicious Qi or energy tonic I think it's hard to beat.

[Adaptogen]

I've been using a ginseng product by Auragin for the past several weeks with pretty great effects. Its just whole Korean ginseng roots ground and pressed into tablet form.

 

So far I haven't seen any other Korean grown ginseng with as high a ginsenoside content as this.

 

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/B00JVA8RO6

[jroseland]

I've been using a ginseng product by Auragin for the past several weeks with pretty great effects. Its just whole Korean ginseng roots ground and pressed into tablet form.

 

So far I haven't seen any other Korean grown ginseng with as high a ginsenoside content as this.

 

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/B00JVA8RO6

Auragin looks like a solid product...

 

It's the top rated on Amazon and from the looks of their website they just specialize on Red Korean Ginseng, not one of these supplement companies that sells everything under the sun...

[ceridwen]

Can't get this in Britain

[normalizing]

im looking for the g115 ginsana ginseng product and its been a week and nobody sells it in the US it seems. i contacted the manufacturer and they dont ship to US so what a pain in the ass this has been! anyway, i was into it ever since i read this article; http://www.nutraingr...sion-Mouse-data

 

does someone think that any other type of extract besides that one can do this, please share alternatives thank you!

[Benko]

Plum flower brand sells high quality chinese herbs and they have high standards so I know they are free of heavy metals, etc.