4019 replies to this topic

[Reformed-Redan]

I've ordered a laser illuminator from here:
http://odicforce.com...mW-Infrared-(IR)-808nm-Laser-Illuminator.html?sessid=V6HbVlomRewVKw5lcBdwEX7C91cwMcXwVKqPJuW6U8nnNHxZFz6oDMSFTLJ1MLgJ&shop_param=cid%3D42%26aid%3DOFL244%26

Hopefully this should do the job.

Please keep us updated.

[peakplasma]

I've ordered a laser illuminator from here:
http://odicforce.com...mW-Infrared-(IR)-808nm-Laser-Illuminator.html?sessid=V6HbVlomRewVKw5lcBdwEX7C91cwMcXwVKqPJuW6U8nnNHxZFz6oDMSFTLJ1MLgJ&shop_param=cid%3D42%26aid%3DOFL244%26

Hopefully this should do the job.

Why not buy 3 of those: http://odicforce.com....d=43&aid=OFL90 ???

I'm not sure you need 3 and those are relatively underpowered compared to the research.

It would be a good idea to aim for the parameters in the MDD study. The researchers used a 250mw/cm³ and reported no adverse effects. The stroke rehab study even used a laser 5x more powerful than that.

[Reformed-Redan]

I'd get two 808nm 200mw IR lasers from the above website given. http://odicforce.com...mW-Infrared-(IR
Some passive cooling would be good not to burn the led light.

[lostfalco]

Disclaimer: NO affiliation with anyone; read official studies and do your own thing :)

Does this mean you won't be giving a more in-depth review of your experience with LLLT?.. I can't tell whether or not you were indirectly responding to my earlier request. Since you are one of the few healthy people who have tried it your experience will be quite informative.

No worries. My response above was unrelated to your previous question. Sry, been typing a lot of responses lately. =)

So, two main aspects of my experience stand out...1. instant energy, 2. endurance. As Dave said in the video it really does wake me the eff up, and fast...1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi...awake (slight exaggeration but not much). It is completely different than being 'wired' however. There is no feeling of jittery-ness or anxiety or edginess for me (like caffeine or nicotene; I described a similar feeling with pregnenolone in an earlier post, but the laser really is it's own thing). It is like razor sharp peacefulness. John Wooden used to tell his players to 'be quick but not in a hurry'...it's like that. It is also important to keep in mind that I have never used the laser without being on Modafinil (200mg every morning), so take that for what it's worth. Also, Kahneman's "Thinking, Fast and Slow" comes to mind here as a good warning about self deception and the caution one must approach such subjective reports with.

My mental endurance has also improved significantly. I have spent a couple of 14 hour Saturdays reading, studying, and eating meals at my (dorky) standing desk followed by dinner and a movie with my gf (Oblivion was just ok...she wanted to see it, I promise). I just did not have the energy to do this before, despite my best efforts.

The current main stays of my stack are: Moda, Preg, Laser, BP Coffee...I have used a lot of tDCS in the past (and still do sometimes) and I'm experimenting here and there with NaB doses (can't wait till HDAC inhibitors become more targeted). Sorry, I know a lot of that is rehash. I have about a million other things I'm working on too...our bodies are so damn complex. Hope that gives you an idea for now. =)

[lostfalco]

I've ordered a laser illuminator from here:
http://odicforce.com...mW-Infrared-(IR)-808nm-Laser-Illuminator.html?sessid=V6HbVlomRewVKw5lcBdwEX7C91cwMcXwVKqPJuW6U8nnNHxZFz6oDMSFTLJ1MLgJ&shop_param=cid%3D42%26aid%3DOFL244%26

Hopefully this should do the job.

Awesome. Please start a thread with your experiences when it arrives.

This study was really interesting. Unlike the stroke study where participants heads were shaved, this one was just applied directly to forehead.

It used a 810 nm unit "delivering an irradiance of 250 mW/cm² when applied at 4 mm from the skin". "The treatment consisted of exposure to the light for 4 minutes (total delivered fluence per site of 60 J/cm²) at each of 2 sites on the forehead that correspond to the 10-20 EEG sites, F3, and F4."

It might be awesome. I find it a bit disconcerting that the odicforce laser page describes the light as non-visible: as far as I can tell all other 8XX nm LED setups used for healing/brain-energizing definitely output in the visible spectrum - see for example Dave Asprey's demonstration here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc7NNr8KnYs&t=9m50s

All the same, since the device is ordered: by all means report back :)

The Vetro is faint but visible in dark corners...in regular light it's pretty much invisible. My cellphone cam can see it though.

[OpaqueMind]

Cool, thanks for the reply man.. did you notice any increase in baseline cognition a la reasoning abilities, long/short term memory etc?

Well I took the plunge and ordered a vetrolaser The report of the woman who was debilitated by a tbi then recovered in weeks to be an lead something or other for an international business struck me as amazing, and since I may have suffered an organic brain disease, the results are promising. Not to mention the studies on depressed individuals and their remission rates!

See sites f3 and f4 in this picture, how do you get the laser there, is there not hair in the way? Also, how often do you use it? Do you find it helps with meditation at all? Does it help eradicate sleepiness at all? Sorry fo
r all the questions!

Thank you for bringing this to our attention

[peakplasma]

See sites f3 and f4 in this picture, how do you get the laser there, is there not hair in the way?

In the stroke study, they shaved the heads of participants.

[OpaqueMind]

Awesome. Please start a thread with your experiences when it arrives.

This study was really interesting. Unlike the stroke study where participants heads were shaved, this one was just applied directly to forehead.

It used a 810 nm unit "delivering an irradiance of 250 mW/cm² when applied at 4 mm from the skin". "The treatment consisted of exposure to the light for 4 minutes (total delivered fluence per site of 60 J/cm²) at each of 2 sites on the forehead that correspond to the 10-20 EEG sites, F3, and F4."

I'm a little confused, you said they didn't shave their heads and the it was applied at sites F3 and F4 on the forehead, yet the diagram I linked seems to show F3 and F4 as being on top of the head... Unless they all had giant foreheads?!

[peakplasma]

Awesome. Please start a thread with your experiences when it arrives.

This study was really interesting. Unlike the stroke study where participants heads were shaved, this one was just applied directly to forehead.

It used a 810 nm unit "delivering an irradiance of 250 mW/cm² when applied at 4 mm from the skin". "The treatment consisted of exposure to the light for 4 minutes (total delivered fluence per site of 60 J/cm²) at each of 2 sites on the forehead that correspond to the 10-20 EEG sites, F3, and F4."

I'm a little confused, you said they didn't shave their heads and the it was applied at sites F3 and F4 on the forehead, yet the diagram I linked seems to show F3 and F4 as being on top of the head... Unless they all had giant foreheads?!

Sorry didn't mean to confuse you.

Yes, for the Major Depressive Disorder study they didn't shave their heads..



In this image the "The NIR LED array is a few millimeters from the skin beneath a heat sink and cooling fan at F3. Somanetics "SomaSensors" with NIR photon emitters and detectors are applied just above each eyebrow to measure left- and right-sided total hemoglobin."

The full paper is available so you should read it.. it is very detailed about the methods and parameters.

[peakplasma]

The aforementioned Major Depressive Disorder study really sold me on this idea.

Not only was it successful but they used a a safe relatively low-power IR laser and ZERO side effects were observed and no drop outs.

"we wanted to be extremely vigilant for negative side effects. We found none, during or after the procedure."

Not to mention that after just a single 8-minute treatment the benefits persisted for 4 weeks.

"We found significant reductions in both mean HAM-D and HAM-A rating at 2 and 4 weeks following treatment. At 2-weeks post treatment 6 of 10 of patients had a remission (a score ≤ 10) on the HAM-D and 7 of 10 on the HAM-A."

For a $100 this is really worth trying.

EDIT: I'm actually considering moving back to Philly just so I can try this out.

Edited by peakplasma, 04 May 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[lostfalco]

Cool, thanks for the reply man.. did you notice any increase in baseline cognition a la reasoning abilities, long/short term memory etc?

Well I took the plunge and ordered a vetrolaser :) The report of the woman who was debilitated by a tbi then recovered in weeks to be an lead something or other for an international business struck me as amazing, and since I may have suffered an organic brain disease, the results are promising. Not to mention the studies on depressed individuals and their remission rates!

See sites f3 and f4 in this picture, how do you get the laser there, is there not hair in the way? Also, how often do you use it? Do you find it helps with meditation at all? Does it help eradicate sleepiness at all? Sorry fo
r all the questions! :)

Thank you for bringing this to our attention

Nothing huge reasoning wise. My improvement has been more energy and endurance...I'm at my best longer and with less forced effort.

In terms of memory, it's hard to pinpoint exactly which of the four major things I'm currently taking produced the effect (could be 2, 3, or none of them)...however, my access to stored associations in my brain is by far the best it's ever been. Silly pop culture references, short melodies, random scientific facts...they're just there, ready to be used when I need them but easily ignored if I don't. This effect took a month or two to manifest...see head injury study for possible parallel time wise; 20 minutes reading to 3 hours reading in 8 weeks (I realize associated memory /= reading time).

I part my hair so that scalp is showing when I laser those sites. Some light definitely gets through but not as much as when I laser my forehead. Use it pretty much daily, have taken 2 days off max. Meditation...hmm, good question...I'll have to get back to you on that. I have lasered right before bed, gone to sleep immediately, and woken up refreshed. No problem, I have a ton of questions too.

I genuinely hope people benefit from this. The science (brain-wise) is very new and incomplete and the fact that there are risks/unknowns is undeniable. Be safe, imitate the studies, and let us know your experiences. Thanks for reading my chicken scribble. =)

[Colli]

I will certainly report my experiences with this when it arrives. As for Odicforce describing the light as "non-visible", I'm hoping that's in reference to the fact that 808nm light is very faint in natural daylight.

[OpaqueMind]

Ah awesome that clears it up, thanks man!

I made a new thread on LLLT cause it helps to have all the info in one place and I don't wanna clog up this one with too much laser stuff!

[lostfalco]

The aforementioned Major Depressive Disorder study really sold me on this idea.

Not only was it successful but they used a a safe relatively low-power IR laser and ZERO side effects were observed and no drop outs.

"we wanted to be extremely vigilant for negative side effects. We found none, during or after the procedure."

Not to mention that after just a single 8-minute treatment the benefits persisted for 4 weeks.

"We found significant reductions in both mean HAM-D and HAM-A rating at 2 and 4 weeks following treatment. At 2-weeks post treatment 6 of 10 of patients had a remission (a score ≤ 10) on the HAM-D and 7 of 10 on the HAM-A."

For a $100 this is really worth trying.

EDIT: I'm actually considering moving back to Philly just so I can try this out.

I think Asprey lives in Canada. Maybe try e-mailing him for laser advice. Can't believe idiots would risk peoples' lives aiming this at airplane cockpits. Come on, people.

[OpaqueMind]

Is it just me or have developments in the field of nootropics being accelerating insanely rapidly recently? At least it feels like it here at longecity...

If we continue at this rate who knows what we'll have in 5 years...

[lostfalco]

Is it just me or have developments in the field of nootropics being accelerating insanely rapidly recently? At least it feels like it here at longecity...

If we continue at this rate who knows what we'll have in 5 years...

I agree. I remember experimenting with things years ago and nothing really seemed to work all that well. Now, we've got real options and possibilities. Pretty damn cool if you ask me...but not as cool as my prosthetic hippocampus is gonna be.

[Reformed-Redan]

The aforementioned Major Depressive Disorder study really sold me on this idea.

Not only was it successful but they used a a safe relatively low-power IR laser and ZERO side effects were observed and no drop outs.

"we wanted to be extremely vigilant for negative side effects. We found none, during or after the procedure."

Not to mention that after just a single 8-minute treatment the benefits persisted for 4 weeks.

"We found significant reductions in both mean HAM-D and HAM-A rating at 2 and 4 weeks following treatment. At 2-weeks post treatment 6 of 10 of patients had a remission (a score ≤ 10) on the HAM-D and 7 of 10 on the HAM-A."

For a $100 this is really worth trying.

EDIT: I'm actually considering moving back to Philly just so I can try this out.

Damm, I've gotta see this. Come back to Philly, lol. I'll order some lazahs from CH or the other company that was mentioned above with the Li battery. Think it was $50

[OpaqueMind]

Is it just me or have developments in the field of nootropics being accelerating insanely rapidly recently? At least it feels like it here at longecity...

If we continue at this rate who knows what we'll have in 5 years...

I agree. I remember experimenting with things years ago and nothing really seemed to work all that well. Now, we've got real options and possibilities. Pretty damn cool if you ask me...but not as cool as my prosthetic hippocampus is gonna be.

Hmmm I've gotta admit that sounds pretty cool... but not as cool as my fusion-powered biomechanically optimized cerebral cortex will be

[dreth7]

Not to derail the futuristic bio-modifications conversation but wow pregnenolone rocks. :D I was debating taking 100mg as my initial dose but I decided to conservatively dose at the 50mg range. About 30 mins post dosing I have a considerable boost in energy. Feels almost speedy like which is odd, and it leaves me happy I stuck with the lower end of the dose range. I cant imagine taking 500mg of this as they did in the trials.

It is important to note that I am currently taking the CILTEP stack and I am usually a bit sensitive to stims (though that does seem to fluctuate). A few months ago 400mg-500mg anahydrous caffeine didn't bother me, but now at even 200mg I get a tad over stimulated.

Well, time to dive into med physiology with renewed vigor!


*UPDATE*

Roomate refused to be my guinea pig and experiment with an equal dosage of pregnenolone. I guess I'll see tomorrow if my first encounter was more placebo driven than reality.

Edited by dreth7, 04 May 2013 - 08:24 PM.

[lostfalco]

Is it just me or have developments in the field of nootropics being accelerating insanely rapidly recently? At least it feels like it here at longecity...

If we continue at this rate who knows what we'll have in 5 years...

I agree. I remember experimenting with things years ago and nothing really seemed to work all that well. Now, we've got real options and possibilities. Pretty damn cool if you ask me...but not as cool as my prosthetic hippocampus is gonna be.

Hmmm I've gotta admit that sounds pretty cool... but not as cool as my fusion-powered biomechanically optimized cerebral cortex will be

I, for one, welcome my nuclear powered overlord.

[lostfalco]

Not to derail the futuristic bio-modifications conversation but wow pregnenolone rocks. :D I was debating taking 100mg as my initial dose but I decided to conservatively dose at the 50mg range. About 30 mins post dosing I have a considerable boost in energy. Feels almost speedy like which is odd, and it leaves me happy I stuck with the lower end of the dose range. I cant imagine taking 500mg of this as they did in the trials.

It is important to note that I am currently taking the CILTEP stack and I am usually a bit sensitive to stims (though that does seem to fluctuate). A few months ago 400mg-500mg anahydrous caffeine didn't bother me, but now at even 200mg I get a tad over stimulated.

Well, time to dive into med physiology with renewed vigor!


*UPDATE*

Roomate refused to be my guinea pig and experiment with an equal dosage of pregnenolone. I guess I'll see tomorrow if my first encounter was more placebo driven than reality.

Thanks for reporting back Dreth! Very cool. That was pretty much my experience too. The energy was very noticeable...but not out of control. Good call on not going with 100mg first time out. I have even heard people recommend starting with 5mg (Sahelian, I believe...I think he recommends cycling 5 days on, 2 off) and others who are a bit more liberal (Ray Peat). A recent pubmed abstract says they used 400mg...http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23348009 (I have not read the full article). Anyway, much is still unknown...thanks for your insights. Please keep us updated on how it goes for you.

[Psionic]

Looks like there is devices such as 350mW and even 1000mW, that later is supposed to have 30 degrees focusable lens, does it mean also bigger surface covered with the ray? And also one should be probably very cautious of lightning with this from minimum distance(!)

[OpaqueMind]

Hey LostFalco have you seen this study? http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0053454

The tbi induced mice untreated and 14 day treated both showed no improvement whereas 1 and 3 day treated did. Since you've experienced continuing effects I guess it doesn't inhibit the mitochondrial effects but rather the neurogenesis.

I however hope to maximise this aspect, so a personally optimal dosing schedule requires more research on my part.

Edited by OpaqueMind, 05 May 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[lostfalco]

That is an excellent find. I have read it.

There is definitely a biphasic dose response involved with lllt...http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20011653.

Hopefully, the optimal dosing protocol/s will become clearer as more studies (and reasonably safe self experiments?) are done. wink, wink

A bite is filling, a million are fatal; megadosing leads to megadeath; and other such tasteless puns.

[Psionic]

That is an excellent find. I have read it.

There is definitely a biphasic dose response involved with lllt...http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20011653.

Hopefully, the optimal dosing protocol/s will become clearer as more studies (and reasonably safe self experiments?) are done. wink, wink

A bite is filling, a million are fatal; megadosing leads to megadeath; and other such tasteless puns.

Looks like the golden middle way rule applies here.. looking forward to more reports.

[Reformed-Redan]

Hey guys. I'm buying a tDCS kit from here. The price is the lowest and the setup is professional. I decided not to build my own setup as I am not inclined to experiment with electricity. I'll do an unboxing of their product for Longecity since they are a new company. Hope this works, should be here soon enough:

http://www.biocurrentkit.com/

Enjoy

I'll be posting the results from this kit in a log for this device. After maybe a couple of months when I have more dough I'll get a LLLT device. Cheers.

[Reformed-Redan]

Guess I'll have to shave my head, lol. No worries, saves a couple of minutes in the shower.

[chung_pao]

Interesting thread!

Ever tried Testosterone for memory purposes?
Increasing my levels of this hormone basically improved my physiology on so many levels. Among others:
Memory, strength, confidence, motivation, social influence, calm, stimulant recovery time and effectiveness. (basically quality of life)

The hormone is also a precursor to endogenous neurosteroids and is tremendously effective at increasing nerve growth factors.
I also suspect it significantly enhances the protein-synthesis aspect of LTP.

In contrast to what most people think: no, it doesn't make you buff or aggressive by itself.
The reason it's associated with stupidity is because the typical user overfeeds himself into apathy.

I'm asking because I've found it to be the single most effective way to permanently enhance one's physiology, even after trying literally everything else. Modafinil gets the 2nd prize though, even if it's just a temporary fix.

Do you have any guess on why you don't need to cycle modafinil? I, like many others, get withdrawal-headaches after only 1 day of use.

Edited by chung_pao, 07 May 2013 - 12:12 AM.

[stablemind]

Interesting thread!

Ever tried Testosterone for memory purposes?
Increasing my levels of this hormone basically improved my physiology on so many levels. Among others:
Memory, strength, confidence, motivation, social influence, calm, stimulant recovery time and effectiveness. (basically quality of life)

The hormone is also a precursor to endogenous neurosteroids and is tremendously effective at increasing nerve growth factors.
I also suspect it significantly enhances the protein-synthesis aspect of LTP.

In contrast to what most people think: no, it doesn't make you buff or aggressive by itself.
The reason it's associated with stupidity is because the typical user overfeeds himself into apathy.

I'm asking because I've found it to be the single most effective way to permanently enhance one's physiology, even after trying literally everything else. Modafinil gets the 2nd prize though, even if it's just a temporary fix.

Do you have any guess on why you don't need to cycle modafinil? I, like many others, get withdrawal-headaches after only 1 day of use.

What do you take for Test?

[lostfalco]

Looks like there is devices such as 350mW and even 1000mW, that later is supposed to have 30 degrees focusable lens, does it mean also bigger surface covered with the ray? And also one should be probably very cautious of lightning with this from minimum distance(!)

You're right! Energy density is a very important parameter. Check the studies mentioned in this thread for details. =)