4019 replies to this topic

[Makiavel]

Everything I have tried on this thread has been a God send for me so I am jumping on H2 bandwagon too

 

Just curious on what is the most cost effective way of getting H2 so far? (I apologize if that was already answered)

 

Thanks

 

I bought 5 magnesium sticks for 30$ at gallium source (including the shipping from USA to Canada.)  If you have friends who like to experiment, you can get a magnesium stick for 6$ and it should be good for at least 6 months.

[Makiavel]

So we have alkaline water which is good to general health (due to hydrogen mostly) but not so great for heart (pathological changes in heart cell muscles which increased the risk of heart attack in laboratory animals). On the other hand, a hydrogen-rich water that is slightly alkalinish have all the benefit of alkaline water without being harmful (this is my own findings/judgment anyways). Lourdes Hydrogen Water Generator claims to produce a low alkaline/high hydrogen water but I have no idea how to verify the claims..

http://www.h2-h2o.com/lourdes.html

Lostfalco, I guess you have bought the generator. Is there anyway you can verify the claims? the hydrogen content and the alkalinity. 

 

After reading your post, I have found 3 papers relating to the pathological changes in heart cell muscles of rats, but I don't have access to the full papers.  

 

1. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9922944

2. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9524951

3. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9198011

 

Could you develop on why you think that the relation between these pathological changes has to do with the alkalinity of water and not the hydrogen content?  The water they are giving to the rats could be both alkaline and hydrogen rich.

[Q did it!]

Count me in on this Hydrogen Water band wagon (gonna take a sec to get all the items to test though). Tulip has been my greatest Nootropic investment I have tried to date  and many close seconds come from this thread as well.

 

So are we at a bit of a conscious of using the magnesium bars for the water treatment for price point and simplicity similar like LEDs over the Lasers? And should DISTILLED WATER be used? This may have been asked already. Dont drink straight tap water often to begin with if i can help it.

[Mustafa]

 

So we have alkaline water which is good to general health (due to hydrogen mostly) but not so great for heart (pathological changes in heart cell muscles which increased the risk of heart attack in laboratory animals). On the other hand, a hydrogen-rich water that is slightly alkalinish have all the benefit of alkaline water without being harmful (this is my own findings/judgment anyways). Lourdes Hydrogen Water Generator claims to produce a low alkaline/high hydrogen water but I have no idea how to verify the claims..

http://www.h2-h2o.com/lourdes.html

Lostfalco, I guess you have bought the generator. Is there anyway you can verify the claims? the hydrogen content and the alkalinity. 

 

After reading your post, I have found 3 papers relating to the pathological changes in heart cell muscles of rats, but I don't have access to the full papers.  

 

1. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9922944

2. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9524951

3. http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9198011

 

Could you develop on why you think that the relation between these pathological changes has to do with the alkalinity of water and not the hydrogen content?  The water they are giving to the rats could be both alkaline and hydrogen rich.

 

 

Unfortunately, there is no conclusive answer, it's really based on my personal judgment..My line of thinking is (ofcourse, I could be wrong):  

 

Alkaline water used in the experiment have been characterized as ionized which means the water have been alkalined using electrolysis (one paper actually specify electrolysis of tap water as their method of obtaining alkaline water).

To summarize, Dr. Hayashi says, "it is true that this cathodic water contains a large amount of hydrogen immediately after it is produced. However, since hydrogen is the lightest element in the universe, this water loses its hydrogen rapidly, and in 2001 it was revealed that it reverts to ordinary water only several minutes after it is produced." So it might be a safe bet to say the alkaline water used in the experiments lacks H2.

Also, although it's comparing apples to oranges, "H2 Gas Improves Functional Outcome After Cardiac Arrest to an Extent Comparable to Therapeutic Hypothermia in a Rat Model".

[Nattzor]

 

 

Hi all,

What is your view about using infrared sound with infrared light? I cannot find any infrared sound yet. But it can be good combination to experiment.

Please share.

Thanks

 

Infrared sound does not exist How come a sound can be red (unless you take some hallucinogens)?

 

 

He must refers to infrasounds, i.e., sounds below the frequency of 20Hz.  Physically they are completely different things.  The only thing I have read about the use of infrasound is the use of binaural beats to create that frequency in the brain and force the brain to switch to that frequency, which is a completely different subject.

 

 

He most likely means ultrasound, called TUS when used on the brain.
 

[magta39]

Lostfalco, how are the experiments with butyrate going?  Notice anything positive, also what form and dose are you using?

[Metagene]

This appears doable: 

 

 

Hydrogen nanobubbles in a water solution of dietary supplement 

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

Here is the supplement referenced in the paper

 

 http://www.amazon.co...*=1&*entries*=0

 

 

Oh isn't this great....

 

"So far, AA tablets have been marketed only via MLM (Multi-Level Marketing) channels with sales of about one million tablets per month. The consumer retail market is virtually untapped."

 

http://www.jobie.co/...ur_Partner.html

 

 

A convenient method for determining the concentration of hydrogen in water: use of methylene blue with colloidal platinum

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3309943/

Edited by Metagene, 04 November 2014 - 04:29 PM.

[Joe Cohen]

a note of caution....

 

Pathogenic Helicobacter species (Helicobacter pylori and H. hepaticus) have the ability to use H(2) through a respiratory hydrogenase, and it was demonstrated that the gas is present in the tissues colonized by these pathogens (the stomach and the liver respectively of live animals). Mutant strains of H. pylori unable to use H(2) are deficient in colonizing mice compared with the parent strain. On the basis of available annotated gene sequence information, the enteric pathogen Salmonella, like other enteric bacteria, contains three putative membrane-associated H(2)-using hydrogenase enzymes. From the analysis of gene-targeted mutants it is concluded that each of the three membrane-bound hydrogenases of Salmonella enterica serovar Typhimurium are coupled with an H(2)-oxidizing respiratory pathway. From microelectrode probe measurements on live mice, H(2) could be detected at approx. 50 muM levels within the tissues (liver and spleen), which are colonized by Salmonella. The half-saturation affinity of whole cells of these pathogens for H(2) is much less than this, so it is expected that the (H(2)-utilizing) hydrogenase enzymes be saturated with the reducing substrate in vivo. All three enteric NiFe hydrogenase enzymes contribute to virulence of the bacterium in a typhoid fever-mouse model, and the combined removal of all three hydrogenases resulted in a strain that is avirulent and (in contrast with the parent strain) one that is not able to pass the intestinal tract to invade liver or spleen tissue. It is proposed that H(2) utilization and specifically its oxidation, coupled with a respiratory pathway, is required for energy production to permit growth and maintain efficient virulence of a number of pathogenic bacteria during infection of animals. These would be expected to include the Campylobacter jejuni, a bacterium closely related to Helicobacter, as well as many enteric bacteria (Escherichia coli, Shigella and Yersinia species).

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15667272

[Metagene]

H(2) and gut bacteria - Its a complex relationship to say the least.

 

 

The second enigma is intestinal production of hydrogen gas in rodents and humans. Although no mammalian cells can produce hydrogen endogenously, hydrogen is produced by intestinal bacteria carrying hydrogenase in both rodents and humans. We humans are able to make a maximum of 12 liters of hydrogen in our intestines [68, 69]. Specific-pathogen-free (SPF) animals are different from aseptic animals and carry intestinal bacteria that produce hydrogen. The amount of hydrogen taken by water or gas is much less than that produced by intestinal bacteria, but the exogenously administered hydrogen demonstrates a prominent effect. In a mouse model of Concanavalin A-induced hepatitis, Kajiya and colleagues killed intestinal bacteria by prescribing a cocktail of antibiotics [43]. Elimination of intestinal hydrogen worsened hepatitis. Restitution of a hydrogenase-negative strain of E. coli had no effects, whereas that of a hydrogenase-positive strain of E. coli ameliorated hepatitis. This is the only report that addressed a beneficial effect of intestinal bacteria, and no human study has been reported to date. Kajiya and colleagues also demonstrated that drinking hydrogen-rich water was more effective than the restitution of hydrogenase-positive bacteria. If intestinal hydrogen is as effective as the other hydrogen administration methods, we can easily increase hydrogen concentrations in our bodies by anα-glucosidase inhibitor, acarbose [70], an ingredient of curry, turmeric [71], or a nonabsorbable synthetic disaccharide, lactulose [68, 72, 73]. The enigma of intestinal bacteria thus needs to be solved in the future.

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3377272/

 

 

Here's the patent for the Hydrogen water supplement: 

 

 

Compositions and methods for producing stable negative oxidation reduction potential inconsumable materials

 

https://www.google.c...ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA

Edited by Metagene, 07 November 2014 - 04:10 PM.

[hephaestus]

Light-emitting diode therapy in exercise-trained mice increases muscle performance, cytochrome c oxidase activity, ATP and cell proliferation

 

http://onlinelibrary...400087/abstract

[Mr Matsubayashi]

I don't know if these have already been posted but....

 

Did someone say Lazer Cap?

http://lasercap.com/

 

Lets not forget the honorable mention to Lazer Helmet.

http://www.theradome.com/

 

The lazer helmet has a inbuilt battery so you can wear it outside.

[BieraK]

I don't know if these have already been posted but....

 

Did someone say Lazer Cap?

http://lasercap.com/

 

Lets not forget the honorable mention to Lazer Helmet.

http://www.theradome.com/

 

The lazer helmet has a inbuilt battery so you can wear it outside.

 

http://novothor.com/

What do you think about this?

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3f3c706f04

Ultrasound+Infred+EMS

[Mr Matsubayashi]

 

I don't know if these have already been posted but....

 

Did someone say Lazer Cap?

http://lasercap.com/

 

Lets not forget the honorable mention to Lazer Helmet.

http://www.theradome.com/

 

The lazer helmet has a inbuilt battery so you can wear it outside.

 

http://novothor.com/

What do you think about this?

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3f3c706f04

Ultrasound+Infred+EMS

 

 

Shut up and take my money.

[Candidatus]

^That's nothing but a pure "human enhancement technology" porn! Would be nice to know the price! At least ballpark. Anybody going to find out?

[Lucas N]

Hey there amazing community. Currently I'm stacking with Rhodiola, Gynko, Fish Oil, D3. I want to start with PQQ/Idebenone, Ubiquinol, ALCAR, R-Ala and Creatine.

Im Tuluping every other day (started 2 months ago) with an infrared 250W lamp in 4 spots (30-45 secs) with a 30cm distance from head.

Im really not seeing almost any improvements. Should I switch to a 48 IR led light? Should I start supplementing with mitocondrial enhancers?

Thank you!

[HungryHippocampi]

Hey there amazing community. Currently I'm stacking with Rhodiola, Gynko, Fish Oil, D3. I want to start with PQQ/Idebenone, Ubiquinol, ALCAR, R-Ala and Creatine.

Im Tuluping every other day (started 2 months ago) with an infrared 250W lamp in 4 spots (30-45 secs) with a 30cm distance from head.

Im really not seeing almost any improvements. Should I switch to a 48 IR led light? Should I start supplementing with mitocondrial enhancers?

Thank you!

 

Hey Lucas, the thread references 650nm to about 850nm wavelength devices.  Most people Tuliping that I'm aware of are using something in the 800's.  My guess is your infrared lamp is in the 650nm range since that's what most infrared sauna's use and what's most available in a "lamp".  

 

I would recommend switching to the 48 led light and seeing if you get better results.  I've been using the device Joe recommended and I have noticed definite but subtle effects.  

 

Hope this helps!

Any updates on using the magnesium rods from Gallium Source to generate hydrogen-enriched water?  Any other affordable methods discovered?

 

Thanks!

[Lucas N]

 

Hey there amazing community. Currently I'm stacking with Rhodiola, Gynko, Fish Oil, D3. I want to start with PQQ/Idebenone, Ubiquinol, ALCAR, R-Ala and Creatine.

Im Tuluping every other day (started 2 months ago) with an infrared 250W lamp in 4 spots (30-45 secs) with a 30cm distance from head.

Im really not seeing almost any improvements. Should I switch to a 48 IR led light? Should I start supplementing with mitocondrial enhancers?

Thank you!

 

Hey Lucas, the thread references 650nm to about 850nm wavelength devices.  Most people Tuliping that I'm aware of are using something in the 800's.  My guess is your infrared lamp is in the 650nm range since that's what most infrared sauna's use and what's most available in a "lamp".  

 

I would recommend switching to the 48 led light and seeing if you get better results.  I've been using the device Joe recommended and I have noticed definite but subtle effects.  

 

Hope this helps!

Any updates on using the magnesium rods from Gallium Source to generate hydrogen-enriched water?  Any other affordable methods discovered?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Thanks HungryHip!

 

I really don't know the nm of my lamp. Right now on my country (Argentina) it's difficult to buy the 48 simple device that lostfalco and Joe recommends. At the moment these 3 are the most near devices that I could buy. 

 

What do you think? Any of these will maybe do the trick?

 

 

 

WITH CAM

 

LED Quantity: 48

Bulb Diameter: -

IR LED wavelength: 850nm

Illumination range: 40m

 

 

 

LED Quantity: 44

Bulb Diameter: 5mm

IR LED wavelength: 880nm

Illumination range: 30m

 

 

LED Quantity: 67

Bulb Diameter: 5mm

IR LED wavelength: 880nm

Illumination range: 45m

 

Thanks!

 

I will love to try and bring feedback with some hydrogen-enriched water. Still waiting some cheap alternatives to try it!

Edited by Lucas N, 17 November 2014 - 11:44 PM.

[HungryHippocampi]

Hey Lucas, I couldn't access the images but I would suggest the 850nm device as long as it's one you can press it directly against the head.  I'm sure the 880nm would work fine I just haven't heard of anyone using that wavelength.

 

Let us know how it works for you.

[Lucas N]

Sorry, here are the images. My doubt is if a device with the camera (48 leds - 850nm) will work. The other have less and more leds, and 880nm, but no camera.

 

You say that with 880nm I can't press directly to the head?

 

 

[HungryHippocampi]

Here's the device I'm using: http://www.amazon.co...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I'm really not much of an expert on the wavelengths so I'll let someone with more knowledge than I comment on the 880nm.  But I believe it to be safe to press against the head.

[Lucas N]

Thanks HungryHippocampi!

 

Can someone please tell me if I can use some of that three devices so I can buy one and start tuliping? Thanks!

 

[Godof Smallthings]

Can you not order from eBay.com in Argentina?

[Lucas N]

Can you not order from eBay.com in Argentina?

 

In the past yes (until 2010), but nowadays it's very difficult cause the customs clearance restrictions and taxes. I have to spend almost an entire day for this, and there are a possibility that I never see my package. There are some people who work on customs that can bring packages for little money. Anyways, at the moment I have the possibility to buy some of that 3 lasers (if you say that one of these will work), or continue with my lamp.

[Lucas N]

Anyone with good experiences on 880nm?

[lostfalco]

Check out this rodent study! A handful of scientists have started testing CoQ10 in combo with LLLT for neuropathic pain. Pretty damn cool.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4219887/

 

"CONCLUSION: 

Based on our findings the combination of CoQ10 with LLLT showed better effects than each one alone. In this regard we believe that there might be cellular and molecular synergism in simultaneous use of CoQ10 and LLLT on pain relief."

 

Here is the abstract. 

 

Med J Islam Repub Iran. 2014 Jul 13;28:58. eCollection 2014.

Combined therapeutic effects of low power laser (980nm) and CoQ10 on Neuropathic Pain in adult male rat.

Jameie SB1, Masoumipoor M2, Janzadeh A3, Nasirinezhad F4, Kerdari M5, Soleimani M6.

Author information 

Abstract

BACKGROUND: 

Neuropathic pain (NP) is one of the most suffering medical conditions that often fail to respond to certain pain therapy. Although its exact etiology is still unknown the role of reactive oxygen species (ROS) and oxidative stress were explored by many researchers. Neuropathies either central or peripheral lead to painful condition as well as social and economic isolation, thus various therapies were used to treat or reduce the pain. Laser therapy and antioxidant drugs have separately considered as treatment for NP, but the combination of them have not been used yet. In order to study the combination effects of Low Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) and Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) the present study was designed.

METHODS: 

Sixty adult male rats (230-320g) were used in this experimental study that divided into six groups (n=10). Chronic constriction injury (CCI) was used to induce neuropathic pain. The CoQ10 or vehicle, a low level laser of 980nm was used for two consecutive weeks. Thermal and mechanical paw withdrawal thresholds were assessed before and after surgery on 7(th) and 14(th) days.

RESULTS: 

As we expected CCI decreased the pain threshold, whereas CoQ10 administration for two weeks increased mechanical and thermal threshold. The same results obtained for laser therapy using the CCI animals. Combination of laser 980nm with CoQ10 also showed significant differences in CCI animals.

CONCLUSION: 

Based on our findings the combination of CoQ10 with LLLT showed better effects than each one alone. In this regard we believe that there might be cellular and molecular synergism in simultaneous use of CoQ10 and LLLT on pain relief.

 

Edited by lostfalco, 22 November 2014 - 09:57 PM.

[rock_zaozz]

Hello Lostfalco and Joe  I have been drinking rich-hydrogen-water for three days from the Lourdes machine that i bought , i dont have noticed  any significant effects yet , do you have noticed anything new? 

 

I will report soon 

Edited by rock_zaozz, 23 November 2014 - 11:32 PM.

[NeuroGeneration]

I don't know if these have already been posted but....

 

Did someone say Lazer Cap?

http://lasercap.com/

 

Lets not forget the honorable mention to Lazer Helmet.

http://www.theradome.com/

 

The lazer helmet has a inbuilt battery so you can wear it outside.

 

Awesome. Anybody know how / where to get a flexible IR LED array, ideally in the 800 - 850nm neighborhood, that can be used similarly? The price on the lasercap is absurd, and when you consider how simple and inexpensive the technology is (pretty much the same as a hydroponics growing lamp, just on a flexible circuit / wires)....

 

I'm sure we could even get a group buy together of a few dozen people if there were a manufacturer in China that anyone could source.

 

Imagine – 2 minutes for LLLT each night, instead of awkwardly moving the device across your head for 20 minutes!

Thoughts?

[BieraK]

Excellent study thats a good news.

It is recent, hopefully soon we begin to see more studies about LLLT+CoQ10+PQQ or LLLT+C60

Also, without intending to advertise a product or make any kind of commercial profit, I will leave this here for those interested.

The ebay seller who had the low cost 100 pills of PQQ+CoQ10 combo has a site where he sells his products, I asked him by ebay for the product. I've bought mine there through Paypal

I mentions this because it seems he is no longer selling that product on ebay.
The site has other great products at an excellent cost.

 

The site: http://herbern.webs.com 



 

Edited by Arsonista, 29 November 2014 - 10:05 PM.

[Nattzor]

 

Excellent study thats a good news.

It is recent, hopefully soon we begin to see more studies about LLLT+CoQ10+PQQ or LLLT+C60

Also, without intending to advertise a product or make any kind of commercial profit, I will leave this here for those interested.

The ebay seller who had the low cost 100 pills of PQQ+CoQ10 combo has a site where he sells his products, I asked him by ebay for the product. I've bought mine there through Paypal

I mentions this because it seems he is no longer selling that product on ebay.
The site has other great products at an excellent cost.

 

The site: http://herbern.webs.com

 

You have 6 posts and post to a .webs store, I would not trust that at all. They claim to be a company, but use outlook as their email, don't even have their own website (.webs is free) and I don't see any CoAs.

[Raz007]

Hello guys,

It's been a while since I wrote here. I'm still performing my LLLT regime and I've seen a solid results in long term memory, concentration, cognition and meta-cognition. 

 

I follow this topic for a year now- and I truly think it has started as one of the most innovative and profound brain-hacking discussion on this website. We need to push the theoretical discussion forward. The discussion about mitochondrial enhancers and signaling pathways was very interesting, but it's only one brick in the big question of how to hack your neuronal circuitry. And maybe It's only my take, but I think it's quite reasonable to presume that since the brain cells (and most of the other types of cells ) are working on ATP ( which is in the end of the day glucose ) - the question we really need to ask is how to increase the glucose (and oxygen) consumption of our brain cells.

 

I just came across a very interesting, and quite recent article about brain glucose consumption ( ref :  Bélanger, Mireille, Igor Allaman, and Pierre J. Magistretti. "Brain energy metabolism: focus on astrocyte-neuron metabolic cooperation." Cell metabolism14.6 (2011): 724-738. ). This article is doing a very good job in explaining the 'big-picture' regarding brain glucose consumption. One of the factors is, indeed, the mitochondrial. However, There are many esoteric factors we don't talk about- that might be a very interesting leads for further reading..

 

For these that don't have institutional access to the article, I attach here the most interesting piece