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Cocoa: My Favourite Nootropic at the Moment

cocoa flavanol bdnf blood flow pea

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#1 Renegade

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:52 AM


No other substance for me personally has such pronounced, immediate and positive effects on my cognition, alertness and mood.

I would describe it as a 'natural' feeling of simulation. My mind feels much more sharp, agile and focused. It feels like a part of my mind which feels sluggish is suddenly 'switched on.' The associated mood brightening also feels great! As well as enhancing my business performance and mood, I think the combination of these effects lend themselves particularly well to enhanced sociability.

As well as the PEA, flavanol (boosts blood flow to the brain) and antioxidant content, I also just found out from this article that it has been shown to activate the BDNF survival pathway http://www.confectio...in-health-study

This article describes the cumulative effects of enhanced brain blood flow in alzheimer patients http://www.alzheimer...onsumption.html


The brand I am taking is Olrtisoln du chocolat 100% cocoa, which i buy from a local shop. Does anyone recommend any specific brands?

I would be interested in hearing peoples' experiences.

#2 nightlight

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:19 AM

I use regular Hershey's raw baking cocoa, 2-3 cups a day (3 tea spoons of cocoa per cup, boiling hot water to mix, plus one spoon of sugar, chunk of butter, bit of milk, bit of cinamon and rum or vanilla, sometimes I add 250mg PEA). Delicious and a nice recharge. Also pleasant for winding down before bed.

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#3 Mind

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:21 PM

One of my favorites also. I mix it with coffee. I often add either (organic) butter or coconut oil to the mix as well.

#4 chung_pao

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:14 AM

Warning: High consistent use will produce very severe headaches, among other things.
The unique mix of xanthines also make an excellent laxative...

However, Cocoa is awesome once in a while!
The boost in NO is also very noticable and pleasant.
There also seems to be a lot of calming amino acids in cocoa which have anxiolytic effects, kind of like L-theanine but different.
Chocamine is my fav, since it gives the benefits of cocoa without the insulinogenic response.
Mixing with deprenyl is even more fun, but not very nootropic.

Edited by chung_pao, 17 May 2013 - 12:17 AM.

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#5 joelcairo

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:33 AM

How is chocamine superior to cocoa powder? I can see plenty claims of how great it is online, but few specifics as to what's in cocoa that needs to be removed.

#6 blood

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:30 AM

What of the theorized causative association between chocolate consumption and Parkinson's Disease?

Edited by blood, 17 May 2013 - 10:31 AM.


#7 nightlight

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:08 PM

What of the theorized causative association between chocolate consumption and Parkinson's Disease?


That sounds backwards. Where did you find that theory?

Warning: High consistent use will produce very severe headaches, among other things.


It doesn't mesh with my experience (several cups a day, 3 tea spoons/cup), or with its known action (vasodilator, which helps against migranes). Where is the 'cocoa -> headache' claim from?

#8 zorba990

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 03:26 PM

This is why I take it
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/14640573/

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#9 Ames

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 05:39 PM

I used to take cocoa when I was working as a town-car driver and needed a stimulant. It would also help me with ocular migraines. However, after a little while, I noticed a disturbing tenseness in my neck as well as some other weird cerebrovascular sensations and so I stopped. I did notice a marked addictive property to it, which drove me to use it to the extent that these strange side effects appeared. I'd venture to guess that intermittent intake in those who aren't vulnerable to a small cocoa addiction wouldn't produce such side effects.

#10 Mind

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 05:46 PM

The epidemiological evidence alone is enough for me to continue using cocoa. LongeCity members have long known about the health benefits.

http://www.longecity...ticle-on-cocoa/ Review article about the benefits of cocoa

http://www.longecity...-drug-saloncom/ its the new brain drug

http://www.longecity...could-outshine/ its like a super vitamin

#11 chung_pao

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:11 PM

What of the theorized causative association between chocolate consumption and Parkinson's Disease?


That sounds backwards. Where did you find that theory?

Warning: High consistent use will produce very severe headaches, among other things.


It doesn't mesh with my experience (several cups a day, 3 tea spoons/cup), or with its known action (vasodilator, which helps against migranes). Where is the 'cocoa -> headache' claim from?


It's just the usual xanthine-withdrawal that caused the headaches.

How is chocamine superior to cocoa powder? I can see plenty claims of how great it is online, but few specifics as to what's in cocoa that needs to be removed.


It's not superior. I just prefer it because much of the calories are removed. That way I can take it while fasting, for example.

#12 Renegade

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:31 PM

Well this article and others similar are bursting my bubble somewhat http://www.holistich...really-healthy/

The claim I am particulaly concerned about is that it depletes neurotransmitters and can therefore have a negative effect on brain function with long term use. Thoughts?

EDIT: http://m.youtube.com...h?v=wArks4mczm4

Edited by Renegade, 17 May 2013 - 08:12 PM.


#13 nightlight

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:11 PM

Warning: High consistent use will produce very severe headaches, among other things.


It doesn't mesh with my experience (several cups a day, 3 tea spoons/cup), or with its known action (vasodilator, which helps against migranes). Where is the 'cocoa -> headache' claim from?

It's just the usual xanthine-withdrawal that caused the headaches.


Well, that's like advising 'Warning: better stay away from highly paid jobs since they will produce severe debt'.
How?
If you lose that job you will be so used to the high standard of living but without the same high salary you will usally run up your credit cards.

I think I would still "risk" it.
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#14 blood

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:31 AM

What of the theorized causative association between chocolate consumption and Parkinson's Disease?


That sounds backwards. Where did you find that theory?


See this thread (post #373):
http://www.longecity...could-outshine/

#15 nightlight

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:28 PM

What of the theorized causative association between chocolate consumption and Parkinson's Disease?


That sounds backwards. Where did you find that theory?


See this thread (post #373):
http://www.longecity...could-outshine/


That was your post #373 there, so you should have put in the link to it to save time of readers here, or even better put the links to papers referred to in the post.

The blog article was comparing total injected PEA dose/day to mice(weighing ~25g) vs total human (weighing, say 75kg) gets from 100g of chocolate, which is off by 3-5 orders of magnitude. The paper itself uses 25/75 mg/kg daily by 25g mice and finds problems while 100g choclate (by 75kg human) has < 1mg total PEA. Note that balb/c mice used weighs ~ 25g which is 40*75=3000 times lighter than 75kg human. Further, the oral administration to rats of 75-125 mg/kg of PEA (again 3+ orders of magnitude overdose) caused no problems.

So the news article was duped by failing to notice the huge overdose (compared to human consumption) combined with bypassed MAO inhibitors in digestive system. If the researchers didn't bypass the latter safeguard, even larger megdose of PEA didn't cause problems. Hence, the whole concern is completely groundless since a far smaller degree of overdose (say 10x instead of over 25-75*3000x=75000-225,000 times overdose in mice experiments vs 100g chocolate) in drinking plain water will kill you (via water toxicity). The "lesson" -- don't eat (or inject) 7,500 to 22,500 kg of chocolate or cocoa daily otherwise you are risking a Parkinson.
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#16 blood

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:50 AM

Hence, the whole concern is completely groundless...


It's difficult to ignore the fact that people with Parkinson's Disease eat more chocolate. Were they doing that before their diagnosis? It's not that difficult to imagine a scenario where some people are more vulnerable to neurotoxic effects from consumption of small amounts of β-PEA. Maybe a subset of people are less able to break the substance down; or maybe some unidentified factor like a food, drug, or gene interacts with PEA consumption to produce a negative outcome.

How did this article get published, if its speculations are completely without merit? The authors go so far as to recommend that people limit their consumption of PEA-rich foods.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12264-013-1330-2

Contribution of β-phenethylamine, a component of chocolate and wine, to dopaminergic neurodegeneration: implications for the pathogenesis of Parkinson’s disease

Anupom Borah, Rajib Paul, Muhammed Khairujjaman Mazumder, Nivedita Bhattacharjee

Abstract

While the cause of dopaminergic neuronal cell death in Parkinson’s disease (PD) is not yet understood, many endogenous molecules have been implicated in its pathogenesis. β-phenethylamine (β-PEA), a component of various food items including chocolate and wine, is an endogenous molecule produced from phenylalanine in the brain. It has been reported recently that long-term administration of β-PEA in rodents causes neurochemical and behavioral alterations similar to that produced by parkinsonian neurotoxins. The toxicity of β-PEA has been linked to the production of hydroxyl radical (·OH) and the generation of oxidative stress in dopaminergic areas of the brain, and this may be mediated by inhibition of mitochondrial complex-I. Another significant observation is that administration of β-PEA to rodents reduces striatal dopamine content and induces movement disorders similar to those of parkinsonian rodents. However, no reports are available on the extent of dopaminergic neuronal cell death after administration of β-PEA. Based on the literature, we set out to establish β-PEA as an endogenous molecule that potentially contributes to the progressive development of PD. The sequence of molecular events that could be responsible for dopaminergic neuronal cell death in PD by consumption of β-PEA-containing foods is proposed here. Thus, long-term over-consumption of food items containing β-PEA could be a neurological risk factor having significant pathological consequences.


Edited by blood, 21 May 2013 - 09:03 AM.

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#17 Major Legend

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:10 AM

I confirm the effects of raw cocoa is awesome, however like vinpocetine it causes some kind of thermogenic flush which aggravated my skin allergies - thus coincidentally or not when I was using raw cocoa with great results I ended up with a really bad skin infection and was sick a whole week. I recommend it as an alternative to caffeine, its as effective. Not taken it ever since then, have switched to other natural stimulants.

#18 nightlight

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 05:28 PM

It's difficult to ignore the fact that people with Parkinson's Disease eat more chocolate. Were they doing that before their diagnosis?


It is as difficult to ignore as the odd fact that shortly before dying most people have been touched and poked by doctors and nurses.

As to why 'people with PD eat more chocolate', if true, maybe to self-medicate via chocolate induced dopamine boost. Or because of any other among myriad known and unknown correlations and connections between phenomena. To make a causal inference, you need a randomized study or animal experiment using doses of chocolate (or cocoa or PEA) comparable to what humans would consume.

How did this article get published, if its speculations are completely without merit? The authors go so far as to recommend that people limit their consumption of PEA-rich foods.


Medical research is mostly PR material dressed up as science. The same goes for other fields with strong financial incentives to deceive and a slow or ineffective punishment feedback. Science has had great press after the WWII Manhattan project, then in 1960s with space exploration and Moon landing. Like anything of value, all that good buzz has attracted a thick layer of parasites by now.

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False, PLoS Med. 2005 August; 2(8): e124.
Majority of Landmark Cancer Studies Cannot Be Replicated (re: Nature 483, 531-533 (29 March 2012))

Why are these guys out to blame chocolate for PD? Among other possibilities, there are pesticide and cosmetic companies which might benefit from muddying the waters on PD since their products, unlike cocoa, can cause PD in animal experiments without requiring massive overdoses as done in the the PEA "research" that is worrying you.

Another possibility in this case is the general competition for control of your dopamine circuits by various networks/intelligent systems at different levels (companies, nations, people, churches, plants, pets, memes such as songs, movies, TV shows,...), seeking to extract some gains from controling your reward mechanisms. Hence the wars on masturbation, on commercial sex, on pornography, on some drugs, on anything pleasurable,... If someone can scare you away from cocoa and chocolate with junk science like the cited materials, that's another potential customer for antidepressants, cough syrups, yoga classes,...
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#19 blood

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:44 AM

It's difficult to ignore the fact that people with Parkinson's Disease eat more chocolate. Were they doing that before their diagnosis?


It is as difficult to ignore as the odd fact that shortly before dying most people have been touched and poked by doctors and nurses.


This strikes me as a too cavalier response. Lives may be at stake - after all.

A correlation between a PD diagnosis and chocolate consumption has been identified in at least one study. In that study the researchers looked for (but weren't able to find) a correlation between chocolate consumption and other diseases such as diabetes. Sure, the study is not an experimental design. It's a hint of what could - plausibly - be a causal relationship. Cautious, risk-adverse folks, wanting to maximize health and longevity, probably will place more weight on the finding than e.g., you.

As to why 'people with PD eat more chocolate', if true, maybe to self-medicate via chocolate induced dopamine boost. Or because of any other among myriad known and unknown correlations and connections between phenomena. To make a causal inference, you need a randomized study or animal experiment using doses of chocolate (or cocoa or PEA) comparable to what humans would consume.


Regarding the importance of a randomized study before one can attribute a causal relationship... who is going to fund that study, and how long will it take to run (probably 30 or 40 years)?

I need to make a decision now - given incomplete data. Do I continue eating chocolate/ cocoa?

I've seen at least one account (on a web forum) from a person with PD who claimed that his/ her symptom improve with chocolate consumption. So maybe constituents of chocolate are absorbed (when *moderate* amounts of chocolate are consumed), which travel to the brain, & release enough dopamine to ameliorate PD symptoms... if you believe that, then it's not a stretch to suspect that when consumed over a life-time, those same constituents may place a stress on vulnerable dopaminergic neurons in a subset of individuals... perhaps increasing risk for PD. You could imagine a scenario where the people who get the most intense high from chocolate/ cocoa are the very ones who should avoid consuming it.

Edited by blood, 24 May 2013 - 12:16 PM.


#20 Chris_T_Malta

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 04:16 AM

I bought this last w/e ---> http://mydhaba.blogs...ocoa-drink.html

 

I am mixing a teaspoon of this product with my protein. No noticeable effects till now but I am hoping it will improve my stamina cause somewhere I read it's a cardiovascular stimulant (http://www.medicineh...-health-miracle).

 

With regular intake of coffee, tea and cocoa, I might be getting in way too much stimulation though...



#21 Jochen

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 05:17 AM

I really like my raw cacao. Just try to buy them as 'environmental friendly' as possible. (I know, cacao can hardly be called eco friendly ... ).

 

Every now and then there are articles discussing cadmium and lead in famous chocolate brands. (with the usual discussions thresholds of these metals, whether they naturally occur, ...)

 

It is of course good to be at least informed. Could not find the immediate article so I quickly googled some other references :

 

on a positive note, this is an article from 2013 with some nice references about how good raw cacao is for you:

http://journal.front...2013.00011/full

 

 



#22 Yoruba

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 11:35 PM

What of the theorized causative association between chocolate consumption and Parkinson's Disease?

That sounds backwards. Where did you find that theory?

Warning: High consistent use will produce very severe headaches, among other things.

It doesn't mesh with my experience (several cups a day, 3 tea spoons/cup), or with its known action (vasodilator, which helps against migranes). Where is the 'cocoa -> headache' claim from?


#23 Yoruba

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 11:51 PM

I tend to agree with nightlight. In my experience, just a tablespoon of cocoa powder added lastly to a mixture of 1/4 cup of low-fat labne with about a slightly-rounded teaspoon of chilled mentholated syrup, really makes an instant 'chocolate mousse' that leaves me very happy to have for an evening snack. Keeps my headaches at bay very effectively...never triggered a one!!

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#24 Yoruba

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 12:43 AM

Ironically, though I absolutely concur with "nightlight"'s double posts, I had to crack up when he threw cough syrup into his spiel! Why?
Because I had made my own mentholated syrup (1st time) from a surfeit of cough drops. I realized I was never going to consume all the cough drops I bought at a bargain, so I liquidated my inventory. Turned out wonderful and doesn't crystalize even with long stirage in the fridge. I just put them in a pot, added water, let them passively dissolve overnight into maybe 1/5 of their original size,then turned on a low heat and simmered until most of the water evaporated! Talk about concentrated syrup! The consistency is amazing, so viscous it doesn't pour and yet it still mixes readily with my labne! The brand of cough drops I used was Jakemans..."Made in Boston,England, for over 100 years using the finest natural ingredients."
Maybe because of the oral anesthetic properties, a little dollop of this syrup (+ cocoa) TRULY does it!
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