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took inositol and 5htp, got bad headache and now problems ever since then

headaches inositol 5htp braindamage

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#31 renfr

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:35 PM

Xanax ( alprazolam) has an agonistic activity to dopamine, it's the only benzo with this property so this might be indeed a sign of excessive dopaminergic activity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11226811

The chronicity of your symptoms could indicate that this problem might be hormonal or a toxicity/deficiency or due to changes in your environment/lifestyle.
The chance that 5HTP does damage to 5HT receptors is highly unlikely however carbon monoxide poisoning does destroy 5HT receptors and could lead to such condition, maybe were you exposed to fumes?
Check this out : http://en.wikipedia....ns_and_symptoms

Also, here's a study on effect of carbon monoxide poisoning on 5HT receptors : http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9627089
It also says that 5HT2A receptors are hyperfunctioning, 5HT2A receptor density is strongly related to suicidal ideation (http://ajp.psychiatr...rticleID=175395)

Edited by renfr, 07 June 2013 - 02:52 PM.


#32 Mikael

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:23 PM

Xanax ( alprazolam) has an agonistic activity to dopamine, it's the only benzo with this property so this might be indeed a sign of excessive dopaminergic activity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11226811

The chronicity of your symptoms could indicate that this problem might be hormonal or a toxicity/deficiency or due to changes in your environment/lifestyle.
The chance that 5HTP does damage to 5HT receptors is highly unlikely however carbon monoxide poisoning does destroy 5HT receptors and could lead to such condition, maybe were you exposed to fumes?
Check this out : http://en.wikipedia....ns_and_symptoms

Also, here's a study on effect of carbon monoxide poisoning on 5HT receptors : http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9627089
It also says that 5HT2A receptors are hyperfunctioning, 5HT2A receptor density is strongly related to suicidal ideation (http://ajp.psychiatr...rticleID=175395)


Well maybe I dont know really. Carbon monoxide posioning sounds really random. How would that have happened exactly? No changes in environment/lifestyle. Im telling you this started with 5htp and inositol and that is the sole cause im 100% sure of that. It got a little better with bacopa usage but I tried other things randomly like gotu kola and shit and none of that work, rather made the headache a bit worse. Then I was going to stop everything and just let it be and perhaps just use bacopa for a looooong time (like a year) and then see how I was doing, but appendicitis got in the way :(

I tried taking a vitamin b complex the other day. I took half a pill. Just got worse head pressure from it. That seems to be the case with a lot of things, no idea why really unfortunately.

Edited by Mikael, 07 June 2013 - 03:24 PM.


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#33 Tom_

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:53 PM

I still think renfr is 100% off the mark here and I'm sure he/she thinks the same of me.

You mentioned being pretty sure you didn't have a comprehensive blood test. I don't know whether this will settle your mind or not but in this case its not indicated and anything more than standard bloods don't need to be drawn.

The fact that it all started with the 5htp seems so weird. I'm not saying I don't believe you but I just can't think of a valid mechanism of how that would lead to your symptoms.

That having been said, I think the only option is to totally ignore the above and treat it like any idiopathic headache (I still think there is a signifcant psychological component, how significant I'm not sure). Your most pressing problem is the major depression. That needs to be treated and I think a brilliant drug for that would be venlafaxine - not just because its effective for depression but also because it has uses as an anxiolytic and for headache. You have to be aware that the first two or so weeks can be pretty rough. It often increases anxiety and it may well make your head worse, the only options are to soldier through it or take benzo's (another option is buspirone but by this point there will be to much going on to tell what's going on). I really recommend you put up with the side effects and if they aren't gone after three weeks you try duloxetine. I'm hoping and expecting (not just blind hope) that an improvement in the depression will lead to improvement with the MDDs and headache. If duloxetine doesn't work I would recommend you try a TCA. Imipramine would be my first recommendation.

The MDDs, from what you're telling me is a major player in the depressive disorder and is obviously causing a lot distress. It only seems to respond to GABAnergics and I won't get your hopes up...the response isn't that great to them but improvement is seen. Long term benzo use is nothing short of a really bad idea.

Options that might be useful are Picamilon, Phenibut, valporic acid and L-theanine.

Picamilon is a vasodialator and a GABAnergic. I would recommend you try this first.
L-theanine is GABAnergic and also dopaminergic (renfr thinks this might be your big problem). I think you should try this if Picamilon doesn't help.
Phenibut is addictive but a potent GABAnergic and is a possibility and also dopamergic.
Valporic acid stops GABA being broken down. Its also a mood stabilzer and has some evidence of efficacy MDD. Its on licence for migrain prevention.

I would recommend you try both Picamilon and L-theanine if neither work before you consider other GABA drugs. It might seem like a good idea to just take GABA but it doesn't cross the BBB in signifcant consentrations and so is pretty much useless.

I'd also recommend you try and take some Ibuprofen when your symptoms are very bad. It would suggest some kind of headache disorder and might help direct treatment further.

All the things you have tried and said made your symptoms worse may need time to do the reverse. I'd say try them for a few weeks to see if they make things better. This in paticular for venlafaxine and GABA drugs.

#34 renfr

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 04:28 AM

I would never recommend valproic acid, this drug can give brain damage and cause ammonia buildup, there are much safer alternatives to increase GABA concentrations.

Even a SSRI is better but the fact that he's thinking about suicide is quite worrisome, a SSRI can truly trigger strong suicidal thoughts so I would suggest him to always have a GABA agonist or a benzo (all kind except xanax) in case it goes wrong.
Don't take gabapentin as well.

Picamilon is a good idea, L-theanine as well however as far as I remember there is no proof L-theanine acts on GABA at least no available study, this is just speculation.
I could also recommend Ashwagandha, this herb has very good reviews is a potent GABAergic.
I suggest you read this thread about ashwagandha : http://www.longecity...a-miracle-herb/

Maybe you could just try a triptan before going to a SSRI, triptans increase serotonin and are successful in getting rid of headaches and probably the pressure that you have.

I still think renfr is 100% off the mark here and I'm sure he/she thinks the same of me.

Well we're just having a different approach to the problem, I'm not here to debate or say who's right who's wrong, our help should be complementary.

Edited by renfr, 08 June 2013 - 04:32 AM.


#35 alan.r

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 05:55 AM

I thank your both for your help. Don't think the problem has been pinpointed and Im thinking very seriuosly about ending my life at this point. I really don't want to but I have a problem with dizziness and vertigo since many years and this pressure worsens that as well (its 24/7). The thing that helped the vertigo, clonazepam, gives me insomnia these days post appendix-surgery. NO IDEA why. Oh well such is life I suppose. I have such extreme anxiety about all of this bleh, wish I could feel some peace at least.


...reading this thread with interest, though much of it is over my head. Vertigo, however, I have had experience with, and I can sympathize knowing the utter helpless misery that can cause.

In my case, the relevant inputs were piracetam (1800mg/day), Choline/Inositol (250mg/250mg/day), genetic low blood pressure, and hard exercise with 5-hour energy drink. Normal condition is very healthy and stable, though prone to dizziness after exercise, when blood pressure is quite low.

Anyway, a couple months in I had an episode of vertigo that was horrible - spinning room, throwing up, laying on the floor motionless pouring sweat, I thought I might have been poisoned and was dying. It lasted about three hours, while I tried to go over everything I did and didn't do, but didn't really figure out anything. Searching online I came up with vertigo as fitting the symptoms to a T, and acetycholine as one part of it. Lacking any other idea, I ceased the choline/inositol supplement (eating an egg with breakfasts then to make up for it).

A month later - same thing, miserable vertigo, on the floor sweating and vomiting for two hours. Slightly less bad, and knowing that I wasn't dying was good, but still the fear that something unknown was going wrong with my brain. Then, I figured out that both of these attacks had happened on weekend days, when I stay home and make a good pot of coffee. At work we have the cheap watery stuff. And then I also related a suspicion I had already settled - that 5-hour energy drinks had stopped working as physical stimulants, but made me feel sickly instead. One or two a week was all I used, but I had already stopped these by the second attack.

Talking to my mother about it, she confirmed that she had mild vertigo problems at one time, and had solved them by cutting out caffeine. So...now a couple of months with zero caffeine input, and I haven't had any recurrences. I hope this might help, but it is hard to sort out influences when there's an array of possible culprits. In my case, just changing physiology with age, and perhaps genetic predisposition seems to be the cause of the caffeine sensitivity, and (fingers crossed) all seems good for the long-term again.

#36 Mikael

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:17 AM

Ive tried picamilon and ashwagandha. Picamilon im not sure if it helped or not, things were far from this bad then. Ashwagandha took away the symptoms for 1-2 days then it didnt seem to help (I added l-tyrosine, got a headache from that and after that I tried the ashwagandha on its own again and it didnt help).

Question is if I should try the venlafaxine or just try the bacopa again. Not sure which I should do here.

#37 Tom_

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:31 PM

I'm not sure if I've stressed this and if I haven't...YOU NEED TO TAKE MEDS FOR WEEKS. I would expect at medium high dosage 150mg to take about three weeks to get to the effects. If something doesn't work for very long try using it for a lenth of time anyway, a trial of four weeks is enough per med. If you are not trying for a while don't expect to see results.

Those increases in suicidal thoughts are in under 25s. This isn't to say that don't occure in them but they are much less likely than a reduction of suicidal thoughts.

I can understand your hesitance to use Gabapentin or valporic acid but they really stabilze mood.

#38 renfr

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 05:44 PM

What about high dose fish oil?

#39 Anewlife

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 06:04 AM

I have had GAD, MDD, Somatization and I have OCD, fish oil does not help with these, fish oil has helped me for mood stabilization but not depression or OCD.

Zoloft is the 1st line of treatment for GAD and OCD this helped me with all the above, a high dose is needed for OCD. Inositol should not be needed.

You have a chemical imbalance that supplements arnt going to remedy.
OP get on zoloft, it takes 4-6 weeks to work you might feel sick or worse at 1st but its been a miracle for my MDD, OCD and Somatization. You need to start off on 25-50mg and work your way up each week to 100-200mg.

Oh and if you want to possibly rule out it being something physical, when you feel the sensations focus your concerntration on it and see if it goes away, if its somatization chances are it will go away.

#40 Rudy

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 05:08 PM

Mikael check out my symptoms see if there is something in common please
http://www.longecity...x.php?app=members&module=messaging&section=view&do=showConversation&topicID=154396
and what has helped you at least a little bit so far.. tell me

#41 Rudy

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 08:44 PM

any one can suggest anything for vertigo feel like im buzzin with alchol but i dont drink scince 6 months ago anyways i feel like everythin spinning like racing thoughts n motion in my eyes... maybe something gabbaergics would help im afraid to try anything now so if anybody kno of something for vertigo at least thats my concern right now scince i dont have headache rightnow (havent taken anythin into my mouth scince yesterday) i havent ate nothing yet either n im afraid to eat

#42 Anewlife

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:17 AM

Rudy try an SSRI like prozac.
In the meantime, magnesium + b6.

Edited by Anewlife, 13 June 2013 - 04:18 AM.


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#43 Rudy

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 12:36 PM

Xanax ( alprazolam) has an agonistic activity to dopamine, it's the only benzo with this property so this might be indeed a sign of excessive dopaminergic activity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11226811

The chronicity of your symptoms could indicate that this problem might be hormonal or a toxicity/deficiency or due to changes in your environment/lifestyle.
The chance that 5HTP does damage to 5HT receptors is highly unlikely however carbon monoxide poisoning does destroy 5HT receptors and could lead to such condition, maybe were you exposed to fumes?
Check this out : http://en.wikipedia....ns_and_symptoms

Also, here's a study on effect of carbon monoxide poisoning on 5HT receptors : http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9627089
It also says that 5HT2A receptors are hyperfunctioning, 5HT2A receptor density is strongly related to suicidal ideation (http://ajp.psychiatr...rticleID=175395)


Well maybe I dont know really. Carbon monoxide posioning sounds really random. How would that have happened exactly? No changes in environment/lifestyle. Im telling you this started with 5htp and inositol and that is the sole cause im 100% sure of that. It got a little better with bacopa usage but I tried other things randomly like gotu kola and shit and none of that work, rather made the headache a bit worse. Then I was going to stop everything and just let it be and perhaps just use bacopa for a looooong time (like a year) and then see how I was doing, but appendicitis got in the way :(

I tried taking a vitamin b complex the other day. I took half a pill. Just got worse head pressure from it. That seems to be the case with a lot of things, no idea why really unfortunately.



I took 40mg sunifiram & 40 mg noopept...i think we had same bad reaction with different substances check out this link ;)http://www.cortjohns...y-series-pt-ii/
i've read your whole thread of all the symptoms they apear to be similar like mine...... please check that link u might find an answer

Edited by Rudy, 13 June 2013 - 01:13 PM.






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