53 replies to this topic

[Rocket]

I have used I.D. for multiple products, and have never been let down.  I won't go into the products I have used, but they are numerous, and they all worked great.  I have ZERO reservations about using I.D. for anything.  I even had blood tests on some of their products and the tests indicated that the product was working as it should. 

 

Definitely one of the best research companies I have ever used.

 

Product ships from the US and not overseas.

 

 

Edited by Rocket, 26 February 2016 - 08:12 PM.

[JohnFurber]

Hi Rocket, Thanks for the useful feedback. Have you tested the melting point and solubility of the Iron Dragon product?

 

Edited by JohnFurber, 26 February 2016 - 08:28 PM.

[Rocket]

No, not tested their ALT711, though I have used it quite extensively.  To be honest, I don't know how to test it.  I can tell you first hand that it ain't powdered sugar!  I've noticed a weird vision effect when taken in too high of a dose. Like when an object moved fast, it would seem faintly stroboscopic. Sometimes when I would take it, and this is bizzare to me, my skin on my hands would feel really really smooth and soft.  The effect is fleeting and seems to come and go on it's own and I can not replicate by playing with doses. 

 

The products I have tried from ID are all legit:  prami, melanotan, ostarine, and bunch others I won't mention.

 

Their prices on the peptides are high, like their CJC1295.  But I have good experiences with their other stuff and I would not hesitate ordering from them if the prices didn't bother me.

 

 

Edited by Rocket, 26 February 2016 - 08:47 PM.

[JohnFurber]

Hi Rocket, I describe testing methods for alegebrium in my Post #20 in this thread, on April 2014.

 

[Daniel Cooper]

I'm thinking of adding benfotiamine as an adjudicative therapy to ALT-711.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

Has anything been published on ALT-711's pharmacokinetics? Knowing at least the half life would be useful.

 

 

 

 

[YOLF]

This is a great topic, I'm curious about why more hasn't been discussed here.

 

So I was talking to a couple of guys about Alagebrium and it seemed that it worked to some extent in some patients, but not in the larger trial (humans) and that cellular turnover rates are the important thing that we're missing going from rats to humans for efficacy. So would thyroid hormone, GH, IGF1, or simply taking aspirin do the trick? If I'm already young wouldn't it be worth taking it as I may still have enough cellular turnover at 34 even without thyroid or the other aforementioned hormones? 

 

Am I missing something, or are people paying too much attention to one big failure to see this stuff for all it's other benefits?

[stefan_001]

Hi Daniel Cooper,  regarding Iron Dragon...

Would you really trust a Chinese source?  How would you know what you were getting? How would you test it's purity? How could you get your money back if they send you sugar?

I have worked out the synthesis and purification procedures in my lab at Legendary Pharmaceuticals, and have been consuming my own product daily since 2001. I can help you to obtain some pure experimental material for your own research projects, if you contact me offline.

Some background information can be found on my website www.LegendaryPharma.com/glycation.html  and in my Chapter 19 of The Future of Aging (book. Ed by Greg Fahy.) Chapter 19: Repairing Extracellular Glycation and Aging.

 

Hi John,

 

Would be great if you could share whether you noticed any effects of your consumption of 15 years? 

 

Stefan

[Canine]

I have three questions - thanks in advance for providing answers to any or all of them.  

 

1. Do any other sites besides "Iron Dragon" and "Buy peptides" sell Alagebrium in powder form?  "Iron Dragon" will not accept any of my Visa cards, and "Buy peptides" requires a minimum order amount of $150.  

 

2. Do any sites sell Alagebrium in Europe, in any form?  

 

3. Though it seems that the powdered form of Alagebrium is preferable to the liquid form for oral ingestion, how exactly would one dose the liquid form for oral ingestion?  

 

 

[YOLF]

This is a great topic, I'm curious about why more hasn't been discussed here.

 

So I was talking to a couple of guys about Alagebrium and it seemed that it worked to some extent in some patients, but not in the larger trial (humans) and that cellular turnover rates are the important thing that we're missing going from rats to humans for efficacy. So would thyroid hormone, GH, IGF1, or simply taking aspirin do the trick? If I'm already young wouldn't it be worth taking it as I may still have enough cellular turnover at 34 even without thyroid or the other aforementioned hormones? 

 

Am I missing something, or are people paying too much attention to one big failure to see this stuff for all it's other benefits?

 

Ok, so it didn't work in the later tests b/c the glucosepane was deep within the cell and in the ECM... But given the new patent for Red Sage Leaf Extract and Niacin, I'm wondering if Niacin and ALT-711 wouldn't work the same way. What about using a sonication plate such as what Dave Asprey sells/uses while on this stuff? I could dream up a ton of combinations to make this stuff reach deeper into cells.

 

Where can we order larger amounts of this stuff?

[eigenber]

Just wondering if there's any estimates on how this peptide should be taken. I mean, to be effective would one need to take it continuously or intermittently? It seems that it's sold in roughly 6-dose bottles (1mg/kg body weight) for somewhere between 30 and 70 dollars a bottle. If crosslinks can be broken with 6 doses and then not have to break links again for several weeks or months then the cost might be manageable, but otherwise this could turn into a very expensive treatment.

[YOLF]

Continuously for years

[Diocletian]

why continuously if it's breaker, once it's broken why to take it again?

 

Doesn't it take years to form again?

Edited by Diocletian, 12 November 2016 - 12:39 AM.

[YOLF]

It forms rapidly, esp as you age, and lasts 117 days or has a 117 day half life. It is also generally sequestered in the tissue, the idea is that you need to prevent it from getting into cells and fight it everywhere you can so it doesn't get integrated in the ECM and your body can rebuild and maintain the ECM without sucking up more of the AGEs that Alt-711 fights. This is how it will make you younger, and Alt won't have access to 100% of it at any time. It's really about accelerating the removal process. Ppl took it for up to 1 year in the studies and still didn't get enough results to clear the targeted disease where the AGEs weren't readily accessible to the ALT-711. It's not a good monotherapy and it will take time. Though in diseases where the AGEs were readily accessible it did extremely well.

 

You could slow production with P5P, though that will dull the senses a bit and limit dopamine production in addition to this for slightly better results. Benfotiamine might be better as it is a B1 metabolite and B1 doesn't tmk limit dopamine and might increase it or sensitivity to it. B1 may also reduce AGE formation, or probably does as it lowers blood sugar. It doesn't cause sedation. After that, you have remove the other things that cause aging, such as b-amyloid, lipofuscin, and some other things. So you really need to take all of this stuff continuously along with growth hormones, thyroid hormones etc to increase the rate of cellular turnover and expose the AGEs to the ALT-711. to build enough synergy to see results if they are possible. People seem to look at the studies and conclude that it doesn't work without understanding the complexity of the problem imo. ALT-711 also need more advanced conjugates to penetrate certain cell types that may be resistant to uptake of it or need to be removed by senolytics and other methods of sabotaging dysfunctional cells. The idea that you can just take a bottle of this stuff and expect meaningful results is ridiculous imo and just reinforces the idea among people that it doesn't work... 

 

All that, and you'll still have to do it again, b/c there is more to aging. You'll just be a different kind of old and a little less old. Red leaf sage extract might make a valuable addition, though it's only a cosmetic ingredient at this point. I've been dreaming up a complex regimen to make this stuff work better. I'm thinking availability of FGF1 would also go miles to increase the efficacy of this stuff as it can basically cause rapid turnover of cells that cause diabetes which contain lots of AGEs, so much so that the diabetes disappears. Put all that together and maybe a 6 day regimen will do something.... MAYBE! There's something similar in size to the Patton Protocol in my dream regimen FYI. There is still no silver bullet and doing just one or not all of them will actually make the effects of what remains more prominently visible, though also more susceptible to future therapies. Telo activators will play a crucial role and will have to come down in price or all the cellular turnover will accelerate telomere shortening and lead to a more aged phenotype. But it'll probably still be cheaper than maintaining aging and the results will be permanent, so it'll cost you or your insurance company (assuming they want to reduce their level of service demand) much less to restore your teenage phenotype.

 

After that, you'll need to stimulate catabolism to accelerate skin shrinking as it has stretched in order to meet the demands of movement.

 

Virtually all of this is now shown to be possible though, so we are really close imo. 

Edited by YOLF, 12 November 2016 - 03:32 AM.

[eigenber]

Thanks for the detailed response. I will be looking forward to hearing any progress you're making toward your dream regimen.

[JohnFurber]

I tried to order Alagebrium from Iron Dragon recently, but they no longer list it in their online catalog.

I will be making another batch of Alagebrium in my own lab, soon, but my lab is not cGMP certified, so I can only make chemicals for research use.

The pure alagebrium is a white powder, which readily dissolves in water.

It can be encapsulated in Vcaps or dissolved in water and packaged in a dropper bottle.

The taste is very bitter, so most people prefer the capsules.

[Diocletian]

Great post YOLF, I think ALT-711 have good potential as AGE breaker but I'm not sure how effective it is againg glucosepane.

Maybe if we use it like you described it can fight even against it.

 

It's dilemma now to use ALT-711 or wait for AGE breaker from Yale University which will be much better in breaking glucosepane crosslinks.

[eigenber]

JohnFurber, keep me posted on your ALT-711 production.

 

YOLF -  are you saying ALT-711 needs a special carrier to get it into contact with aging glucosepane?

What effect, if any, would mixing ALT-711 into a solvent (DMSO) have?

What is your current 'stack' for dealing with AGEs?

[YOLF]

Great post YOLF, I think ALT-711 have good potential as AGE breaker but I'm not sure how effective it is againg glucosepane.

Maybe if we use it like you described it can fight even against it.

 

It's dilemma now to use ALT-711 or wait for AGE breaker from Yale University which will be much better in breaking glucosepane crosslinks.

 

You might as well try it. It could take decades for Yale to put a drug in your hand and it will probably cost $2000/month and not be covered by insurance unless you have some disease or another or your doctor won't prescribe it to you at all... Never wait for medicine, always look for alternatives.

[JohnFurber]

I have three questions - thanks in advance for providing answers to any or all of them.  

 

1. Do any other sites besides "Iron Dragon" and "Buy peptides" sell Alagebrium in powder form?  "Iron Dragon" will not accept any of my Visa cards, and "Buy peptides" requires a minimum order amount of $150.  

 

2. Do any sites sell Alagebrium in Europe, in any form?  

 

3. Though it seems that the powdered form of Alagebrium is preferable to the liquid form for oral ingestion, how exactly would one dose the liquid form for oral ingestion?  

 

Hi Canine,

 

CAVEAT:  I am neither a doctor nor a pharmacist.

 

1.  Iron Dragon has removed Alagebrium from their online catalog.  I have not see it there for at least a couple of months.

I am not familiar with a company named "Buy Peptides". I just tried Googling and did not find them. The domain "buypeptides.com" is currently for sale.

 

3.  For liquid use, I dissolve the Alagebrium powder in distilled water at 100 mg/mL Total Volume. A common, brown glass dropper bottle of 30 mL capacity would take 3 grams of Alagebrium. Then a 1 mL glass pipette dropper would dispense 100 mg into a half glass of water. The taste is very bitter, so some people take it in grapefruit juice or wine.  Many people prefer to take dry Alagebrium crystals in capsules. I have been taking Alagebrium daily since 2001, usually 100 mg/day. It can be taken with food, or on an empty stomach.

 

Tooth brushing with Alagebrium:  The liquid drops of Alagebrium can also be used as an effective dentifrice.  After you have brushed your teeth in your regular way with your regular toothpaste, rinse your toothbrush with water, and then put a couple of drops of Alagebrium solution on it. Brush your teeth and tongue again. Although the taste is quite bitter, it removes bacterial biofilms and plaque, leaving the mouth and teeth extremely clean. People who have had problems with plaque and biofilms report that it gets their teeth noticeably cleaner. This makes sense because the bacteria are holding onto the teeth with glycation bonds.  It is of course safe to swallow.

 

Cheers,

-John

[JohnFurber]

JohnFurber, keep me posted on your ALT-711 production.

 

YOLF -  are you saying ALT-711 needs a special carrier to get it into contact with aging glucosepane?

What effect, if any, would mixing ALT-711 into a solvent (DMSO) have?

What is your current 'stack' for dealing with AGEs?

 

Hi Eigenber,

I am pleased to report that my recent synthesis and purification of Alagebrium was successful.

It can be made available to experimenters as pure powder, or solution in water in dropper bottles (100 mg/mL), or encapsulated in vegan Vcaps. 

The Vcaps are generally formulated with either 100 or 200 mg of Alagebrium per capsule.

In order to properly pack the capsules, the Alagebrium is blended with an appropriate amount of "filler" powder.

Usually, I use NAC as the "filler" (N-acetyl-cysteine), but we can discuss custom formulations.

Experimenters can contact me by direct message, Signal, email, phone, Skype, etc.

Cheers,

-John

[JohnFurber]

 

Hi Daniel Cooper,  regarding Iron Dragon...

Would you really trust a Chinese source?  How would you know what you were getting? How would you test it's purity? How could you get your money back if they send you sugar?

I have worked out the synthesis and purification procedures in my lab at Legendary Pharmaceuticals, and have been consuming my own product daily since 2001. I can help you to obtain some pure experimental material for your own research projects, if you contact me offline.

Some background information can be found on my website www.LegendaryPharma.com/glycation.html  and in my Chapter 19 of The Future of Aging (book. Ed by Greg Fahy.) Chapter 19: Repairing Extracellular Glycation and Aging.

 

Hi John,

 

Would be great if you could share whether you noticed any effects of your consumption of 15 years? 

 

Stefan

 

 

Hi Stefan,

There are several ways to answer you:

1.  My personal observations on my own use;

2.  Reports from friends who have been consuming Alagebrium over the past few years;

3.  Referring to the published literature regarding the clinical and pre-clinical trials that were conducted in past years.

 

Myself and my friends were not blinded, so we could be subject to observer biases.  My health is very good.

My blood pressure is typically 99/61, which is lower (healthier) than before I started, 15 years ago, even though I was 15 years younger.

However, my good health could partly be attributed to regular exercise and a healthy diet, which is mostly vegan, and includes lots of colorful fruits, berries, vegetables, and raw nuts.  At about the same time that I started taking Alagebrium, I also increased my resistance exercise to a couple of times per week, in addition to Yoga and bicycling, which I had been doing previously.  Also, at about this time, I cut down on the amount of bread and rice in my diet.  My weight went down from 165 to 139, which it still is. (5 ft 8 in tall). So, my fitness improved after starting Alagebrium, but some of the improvement could be attributed to resistance exercise and less starch in my diet.

Several of my friends commented that, after starting alagebrium, they did not need to get up in the middle of the night to urinate as often.  This might indicate increased flexibility of the urinary bladder, due to reduced cross-links.

Several friends gave Alagebrium to their elderly dogs (liquid drops on the dog food). All noted various improvements in running, jumping, friskiness, etc.  They believe that the alagebrium added a couple of years to their dogs' lifespans.

It probably takes several weeks for Alagebrium to have much effect on the extracellular matrix.

Some of my friends have tried it for a few months, and then stopped to save money and to see what happened. Most resumed a few months later, and told me that they noticed benefits while they were taking it.

I have written more details on my web page (LegendaryPharma), and in Chapter 19 of "The Future of Aging".
Cheers,

-John

Edited by JohnFurber, 14 December 2016 - 04:25 PM.

[JohnFurber]

Last month, I commented,

"The Vcaps are generally formulated with either 100 or 200 mg of Alagebrium per capsule.

In order to properly pack the capsules, the Alagebrium is blended with an appropriate amount of "filler" powder.

Usually, I use NAC as the "filler" (N-acetyl-cysteine), but we can discuss custom formulations."

 

Since then, I have begun using powdered Calcium Carbonate as a filler.

This can be considered as a dietary source of calcium.

Some people are already getting NAC in other supplements, so they don't want to get extra NAC with alagebrium.

I am now able provide alagebrium Vcaps with either NAC or Calcium carbonate filler, whichever you prefer.

 

As always, the water drops do not need filler.

 

Cheers,

-John

[JohnFurber]

Last year, I contracted with a large, reputable, pharmaceutical contract manufacturer to make a large batch of Alagebrium powder to cGMP standards (current Good Manufacturing Practices). They are cGMP certified by the US FDA.  I have also changed the excipient filler in the capsules to MCC (micro-crystalline cellulose), which is a standard excipient used in many commercial nutritional supplements.

I have written more details on my web page (LegendaryPharma.com), and in Chapter 19 of "The Future of Aging" (Springer. Ed by Greg Fahy.) Chapter 19: Repairing Extracellular Glycation and Aging.

Experimenters who want to obtain some can contact me by direct message, Signal, email, phone, Skype, etc. I can supply it as either capsules in vegan Vcaps, water solution in dropper bottles, or bulk powder.

Cheers,

-John