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Stack for healing concussion and radiation exposure

nootropics concussion radiation choline melatonin same

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#1 nettle

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 09:13 PM


Hi everyone,

I came across this Brain Health forum a month or two ago. I've long been interested in health, but had never gotten very interested in the ins and outs of my brain until recently. I realized some time ago that the biggest hurdles to success and happiness are my own self-defeating habits of mind, but only just discovered the world of nootropics and biohacking brain chemistry. Very interesting stuff, and I'm excited to see if it will work for me. I've struggled my whole life with:

- procrastination (has been really bad at times)
- difficulty focusing
- anxiety, sometimes very bad (often the root of my procrastination and difficulty focusing), excessive worrying
- mild occasional depression
- general inhibition/aversion to risk/social anxiety (not a terrible case of it, but regular interactions definitely cause me more stress than they do other people)

I was planning on posting on this forum about how to address my procrastination, mood, and focus issues. My plan was going to be to use a racetam, CDP-Choline, Inositol, Sulbutiamine and maybe Theanine.

HOWEVER, before I got a chance to post on here with my proposed stack, I fell down and ended up with a concussion. Ironic isn't it? While I was thinking so much about how to improve my brain, I ended up with a brain injury, and just wished I could have my old brain back. Also, I ended up receiving two CT scans at the ER, which I now found out were unnecessary, and which exposed me to a LOT of dangerous radiation. (Thanks, doc.)

I am lucky enough to have been able to take a lot of time off from work and rest the past few weeks, which has greatly aided in my recovery. Rest is truly the best medicine for a concussion. That, and CDP-Choline, which has been a complete miracle. I would recommend it to anyone recovering from a concussion. Having just been reading about it before I had my accident, I quickly looked up the studies about how it aids people recovering from mild traumatic brain injuries, and decided to take it. Especially in the first few days, the difference was dramatic. Every time I took a Choline, I felt normal and more like myself for about two hours.

Anyway, now I am coming to you all with a different set of concerns.

- avoiding DNA damage/mutation and oxidative damage from the radiation I was exposed to
- healing 100 percent from the concussion
- using supplements that are helpful/not counterproductive in terms of my original goals/baseline mental state described at the beginning

Here's what I was taking already BEFORE the concussion, up through the week after the concussion, during which time I received the 2 CT scans (and one spinal xray):

- Wild Salmon oil 1000 mg 2 x day
- Inositol 750 mg 2 x day (I know this is a small dose. I got capsules just to gauge my reaction to a small amount and was planning on buying bulk powder if I had no adverse effects)
- CDP-Choline 250 mg 2 x day
- Astaxanthin 4 mg 1 x day
- Lion's Mane fruiting bodies 500 mg 1 x day
- Zinc 30 mg (with trace Copper) 1 x day
- Magnesium 320 mg 1 to 2 x day

I stopped taking the Lion's Mane after the CT scan because I realized after the fact that it was unclear whether its anti-cancer compounds could cross the BBB, and the stimulation of NGF might be dangerous with radiation exposure. (In my purely speculative, non-scientific assessment.)

Now I am considering changing the mix up/adding in other things after reading about how to prevent radiation damage. By far the most informative article was on a blog called, "It's Alimentary." (I am new and cannot post links.) The author summarized available literature on vitamins and herbs that offer radiation protection, as well as the mechanisms in the body that prevent damage. Based on that article, and a few others, it seems like the biggest things I need to do are prevent oxidative damage with antioxidants, and also support glutathione production in the brain.

While various antioxidant and anti-cancer herbs have shown promise protecting cells from ionizing radiation, the ACE vitamins (and supporting vitamins) have been studied much more than anything else, and clearly offer benefit against DNA damage and oxidative damage. However, I could not find any evidence that the ACE vitamins offer radioprotection that crosses the blood brain barrier. The supplements that do seem to offer brain protection from radiation are methyl donors that assist glutathione production in the brain, SAMe and melatonin.

The "Its Alimentary" article, by Beverly Seng, states:

Hundreds of studies have documented that melatonin combats oxidation from ionizing radiation.[93] One group of Japanese researchers declared “by virtue of melatonin’s radioprotective and anticancer effects, it is time to use it as a radioprotector both for radiation workers and patients suffering from cancer.”[94]

Melatonin’s chief means of preventing radiation damage, it is assumed, is that it is one of the most potent scavengers of free radicals. It can scavenge the hydroxyl, peroxyl, peroxinitrite, and singlet oxygen radicals. Moreover, it also stimulates glutathione in the brain, and may be the only antioxidant to do so in the brain.[95] (Glutathione is the body’s natural anti-oxidant.) In one rat study, treatment with melatonin for 4 days prior to radiation “abolished” the lipid peroxidation and damage to proteins that were seen in controls not given the melatonin. [96] In another rat study, pretreatment with melatonin reduced DNA strand breaks and lipid peroxidation in the brain.[97]

In a 1994 mouse study, melatonin increased survival of irradiated mice. All those not treated with melatonin died within 12 days, whereas 43% of those given melatonin were still alive 30 days after irradiation.[98]

Melatonin also prevents damage to DNA. In human lymphocytes exposed to radiation, melatonin reduced the numbers of genetically damaged cells by up to 62%, depending on the dose of melatonin. [99] Melatonin concentrates in the nucleus of the cell. Researchers at the University of Texas Department of Radiology theorize that melatonin activates enzymes that repair DNA and/or activates genes that create proteins that repair DNA. [100]


An article by Life Extension, "Protecting Against Radiation from CAT Scans and X-rays," recommends SAMe. This seems in line with what I read elsewhere about SAMe being a precurser to melatonin.

"Compounds that donate methyl groups are also helpful in protecting us from radiation. One such supplement is S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe). Enzymes vital for DNA repair and cancer protection can’t function properly without methyl donors such as SAMe.16 It turns out that radiation actually suppresses SAMe levels in animal models. Increasing the animals’ SAMe levels, on the other hand, minimized DNA damage from ionized radiation.17"

With melatonin and SAMe looking like the best candidates for radioprotection in the brain, I haven't been sure which one to take. I'm interested in seeing how the mood-boosting effect of SAMe would feel, but I'm worried that it could cause anxiety. Melatonin has much more research supporting its use to protect against radiation damage in the brain. However, that's a moot point if I'm understanding it correctly that SAMe naturally increases melatonin in the brain at night. (Is that true?) I have the sense that taking both might not be wise, though I haven't read any cautions.

Here are some things I am thinking about taking:

- SAM-e 200 mg 1 x day (NOW version with B vitamin co-factors: B-6 - 2 mg; Folic Acid - 200 mcg; and Vitamin B-12 - 50 mcg)
- Curcumin 500 mg 1 x day
- Reishi mushroom extract 350 mg 1 x day
- NOW Tru-C (Amla-based Vitamin C 400 mg plus Rose hips and GSE) 400 mg 2 x day
- Vitamin E Gamma E complex 400 IU 2 x day
- Selenium 100 mcg 2 x day
- Wild Salmon oil 1000 mg 2 x day
- Inositol 750 mg 2 x day
- CDP-Choline 250 mg 2 x day
- Zinc 30 mg (with trace Copper) 1 x day
- Magnesium 320 mg 1 to 2 x day
- Melatonin 2.5 mg 1 x day

I will plan to lower my doses of C, E, and Selenium after a few weeks. FYI for dosing purposes, I am 115 lbs.

What do you all think?

- Should I not use Sam-E, given my tendency toward anxiety?
- Should I use Melatonin in addition to, or instead of Sam-E, or should I avoid melatonin?
- Should I stop taking Inositol if I am going to take Sam-E?
- Will Curcumin, as an MAOI, interact with any of the other stuff in an adverse way?
- Is this too many things to take? Am I taking too many blood-thinners? I'm not taking IB profeun regularly anymore.
- Should I be taking anything else for concussion recovery? I've never taken racetams or other designer nootropics before, and don't want to go too far in experimenting, because I may not be able to tell adverse reactions from concussion symptoms.


Thank you all very much in advance for any thoughts or ideas!

#2 3AlarmLampscooter

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:04 AM

Piracetam is proven to be helpful for traumatic brain injury: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18427539

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#3 zeropoint

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 04:33 AM

I also had a concussion in addition to a fractured forearm/wrist.....aniracetam and pramiracetam also are good for TBI. Be aware of PCS (post concussion syndrome) as this can affect you months after....they also gave me CT scans, I didn't know they were that high in radiation.

Edited by zeropoint, 30 July 2013 - 04:37 AM.


#4 nettle

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 02:31 PM

Thanks for the suggestions! Do you think I should go with Piracetam, because it's the most studied one? Or should I go with a stronger racetam?

#5 Augmentation

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:23 PM

I experienced a double concussion (not sure the exact terminology as the doctors had not seen anything like it before) while I had Mononucleosis, from this experience I can say with confidence that sleep is and always will be your best friend when recovering from a head injury. In addition to sleep Aniracetam has been a great help in many instances so too, even more effective has been noopept. Best of luck with all you are recovering from! Time works wonders if you give your body a chance.

#6 lostfalco

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:48 PM

Hey nettle, you may want to look into low level laser therapy. It has shown significant potential to aid recovery in TBI, but it's still a little untested (for now). Here are some of the studies if you're interested in checking it out.

Recent Summary (best introduction)
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23806754

Tramatic Brain Injury (TBI) Human Pilot Study (extended quote below)
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/21182447/

More Studies (sorry, if there are repeats =))
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22793787
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22275301
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22040267
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22028832
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21851183
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17439348
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21691215
Human Stroke Study 1: http://stroke.ahajou.../38/6/1843.long
Human Stroke Study 2: http://stroke.ahajou.../40/4/1359.long
Rodent TBI Study (poor little guys): http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0053454
Three Study Survery of Rodent TBI: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22807422
Stroke, TBI, Disease Summary: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3128319/

Naeser Quote
"RESULTS:
Seven years after closed-head TBI from a motor vehicle accident, Patient 1 began transcranial LED treatments. Pre-LED, her ability for sustained attention (computer work) lasted 20 min. After eight weekly LED treatments, her sustained attention time increased to 3 h. The patient performs nightly home treatments (5 years); if she stops treating for more than 2 weeks, she regresses. Patient 2 had a history of closed-head trauma (sports/military, and recent fall), and magnetic resonance imaging showed frontoparietal atrophy. Pre-LED, she was on medical disability for 5 months. After 4 months of nightly LED treatments at home, medical disability discontinued; she returned to working full-time as an executive consultant with an international technology consulting firm. Neuropsychological testing after 9 months of transcranial LED indicated significant improvement (+1, +2SD) in executive function (inhibition, inhibition accuracy) and memory, as well as reduction in post-traumatic stress disorder. If she stops treating for more than 1 week, she regresses. At the time of this report, both patients are continuing treatment.

CONCLUSIONS:
Transcranial LED may improve cognition, reduce costs in TBI treatment, and be applied at home. Controlled studies are warranted."

Edited by lostfalco, 30 July 2013 - 07:49 PM.


#7 zeropoint

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:21 PM

Thanks for the suggestions! Do you think I should go with Piracetam, because it's the most studied one? Or should I go with a stronger racetam?

If you go with piracetam go with sufficient doses, like 4.6grams. After using these doses not sure if lowly piracetam really is "weaker" and the others "stronger". Just a bigger hassle weighing out. I saw studies with pramiracetam, aniracetam and piracetam and suprisingly with the CDP-choline. Exercise also helps according to studies(just don't fall on head!)....something with circulation apparently, which makes me think low dose Hydergine@(ergoloid mesylates) might help also, not sure though. I always wear a helmut now too.(when on bike)

Edited by zeropoint, 30 July 2013 - 08:23 PM.


#8 nettle

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:54 PM

Wow, lostfalco, that's mind-bending stuff. (Mind-brightening stuff?) I'll keep reading about that and keep it in mind if I don't heal soon.

Thanks for the suggestions on piracetam dosage, zeropoint. I think I'll buy some bulk powder and experiment with increasing the dose over time. And maybe try another racetam later on.

Agreed with the prescription for sleep. I was able to spend a week not working and sleeping much of the day, and I felt like a different person at the end of it. Slowly over time, I am needing to sleep less and less, but it's still the best thing to do when I feel the symptoms coming back on.

#9 Logic

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:16 PM

I trust this answer by Brent Murphy as he makes some of the best supps available in South Africa IMHO:

http://answers.googl.../id/338584.html

#10 zeropoint

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 02:51 PM

I trust this answer by Brent Murphy as he makes some of the best supps available in South Africa IMHO:

http://answers.googl.../id/338584.html

Good info here Logic, but if one was exposed to these CT scans would damage done be at the time of exposure or are supplements needed after also?

#11 Logic

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 03:47 PM

I think its better to take supps before the scans, but taking them after may still help to repair damage. It probably depends on the supp and its method of action.

#12 xks201

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 04:09 PM

LOL, the radiation exposure from MRIs is the least of your worries bro. I got a concussion and it made me pan hypo pituitary. Worst part is an MRI can't even detect pituitary damage if it occurs on the underside of the pituitary like mine did. Check your hormones.

#13 zeropoint

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:34 PM

I wish it were just MRI's, CT-scans are much worse.
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#14 nettle

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:39 PM

Very useful article, Logic. I'm glad I was already taking several of those supplements when I had the CT scans.

I ordered bulk piracetam, and will plan to experiment with two 3 - 5 g doses per day.

Anyone have thoughts on how much CDP Choline I should be taking? I have 250 mg capsules now, but am thinking of getting some bulk powder. I read a bunch of old threads with many people reporting success with high ratios of choline to piracetam, and others recommending taking no Choline at all unless you get headaches. Considering how much Choline has already helped me, and the fact that it's known to help with concussions, I'm leaning toward taking somewhere between 750 - 1500 mg per day. (Also, I will continue to eat 2-3 eggs every day, as I have almost every day for ten years. I always have to eat runny eggs in the morning in order to feel like my brain is "on.") Any reason I should not take that much CDP Choline?
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#15 Strelok

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 07:42 PM

Sounds like you are on the right track. Here is the stack I'm currently using as is proving to be helpful: http://www.longecity...post__p__569504

I have also found ashwagandha and ginkgo biloba to be more and more helpful the longer I use them.

Stay well hydrated and get regular exercise, especially resistance training IMO. I am becoming more and more convinced that the beneficial effects of nootropics and good diet can be potentiated exponentially by proper, consistent exercise.

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#16 normalizing

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 10:09 PM

review of MRI DNA damage seems to be a serious concern even though in older studies it was always referred to as safer to CT scans. so seriously, any more ideas how to prevent the DNA damage from MRIs or even CTs ?







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: nootropics, concussion, radiation, choline, melatonin, same

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