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Cerebrolysin Nasal Spray

cerebrolysin

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#61 cyberger

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:05 AM

Are buying Cerebrolysin vials and preparing them for intranasal? Is that safe? Could not the cere they are using in intranasal studies be another preparation designed for nasal absortion?


The only Cerebrolysin product available at the Ever Neuro Pharma website is the aqueous solution for injection (http://www.everpharm...rebrolysin.html) - I have not seen any other specially formulated Cerebrolysin that would have been used in the China study. But if it's safe enough to inject via IM/IV, can't think of any reason it would be less safe intranasally, since the goal of both routes of administration is to get the peptide absorbed through the blood brain barrier and into the brain. in other words, if a product is non-toxic injected directly into the veins, having it sprayed onto the nasal mucosa surface would be even safer.

BTW there is an 84 page PDF from Ever NeuroPharma with lots of details about the product at: http://www.hypermed....raph_screen.pdf.

The ingredients for 1ml Cerebrolysin is:
215.2mg porcine brain-derived peptide preparation (Cerebrolysin concentrate) in an aqueous solution composed of sodium hydroxide and water.

#62 cyberger

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:59 PM

Here's a wild idea: Comparing cerebrolysin peptide quantities between it's pill and injectable form, the cheapest source of the peptide is the pill form:

 

 

Source Dollars Units Peptide/Unit Total Peptides (mg) Peptide/Dollar
Cebria (NeuroPep-12 Peptide Blend) 40 30 282.8 8484 212.1
5x5ml from Nootropic.eu 46 25 215.2 5380 117.0
5x10ml from Nootropic.eu 71 50 215.2 10760 151.5


Would it be safe to make a nasal form of the medication by opening up the pills to use the peptide? The oral capsules have the advantage of already being individually sealed in blister wraps, which means the whole problem of keeping partially used liquid Cerebrolysin sterile wouldn't be an issue. Plus, Dr. Tim Wolfe (of intranasal.net) said for best bioavailability one should "Use the most concentrated form/lowest volume of the medication available – ideal volumes are about 0.25 to 0.3 ml per nostril to reduce runoff but allow maximal mucosal coverage" http://www.intranasa...iew/default.htm

The other ingredients in Cebria look pretty benign (AFAIK), http://www.cebria.com/ingredients.html, so what are people's thoughts on the feasibility of converting the pill form into an easily absorbed intranasal solution?


Edited by cyberger, 21 August 2013 - 06:14 PM.

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#63 cyberger

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 08:35 PM

Cebria has a buy 4 boxes get 2 free option which would mean $160 for 6 boxes (50.9 grams of the Neuro Pep 12 blend). It would take 4.7 packs of 5x10ml vials to get that amount of peptides at a cost of $333.

So there's $173 savings if the pill form could be used intransally to get similar results as the IM/IV/Intransal liquid route. Very intriguing...

Edited by cyberger, 21 August 2013 - 08:37 PM.


#64 eno

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 08:59 PM

Are buying Cerebrolysin vials and preparing them for intranasal? Is that safe? Could not the cere they are using in intranasal studies be another preparation designed for nasal absortion?

BTW there is an 84 page PDF from Ever NeuroPharma with lots of details about the product at: http://www.hypermed....raph_screen.pdf.

Thanks for the pdf. Unfortunately it doesn't mention intranasal application.

Following common sense I regard IN at least as safe as IM or IV use. But I am not a physician.

I am more concerned about dosing. We have not much to compare efficacy of IN to IM or IV. The human study from China used 1 ml IN for ischemic stroke. Is there any additional (anecdotal) data yet?
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#65 daouda

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 12:52 AM

Just noticed this thread, and it is awesome. Congrats for the research and great finds guys. Only on longecity! However, CERE has also been proven beneficial for regeneration of peripheral nerves (pubmed it), and as I have both CNS damage and peripheral neuropathies, i should probably stick with injections for now... Ill still follow this thread closely as this makes CERE therapy much more flexible and convenient (easy to keep doing it while travelling etc...)

Edited by daouda, 22 August 2013 - 12:53 AM.


#66 Psionic

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 07:57 AM

Cebria has a buy 4 boxes get 2 free option which would mean $160 for 6 boxes (50.9 grams of the Neuro Pep 12 blend). It would take 4.7 packs of 5x10ml vials to get that amount of peptides at a cost of $333.

So there's $173 savings if the pill form could be used intransally to get similar results as the IM/IV/Intransal liquid route. Very intriguing...


Whats exactly the difference between Cebria and Cerebrolysin? It seems that Cebria works via oral administration so do you think its effectivity can be enhanced even more via Instranasal administration?

#67 angus

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:03 AM

Hi,

Here is my feedback on IN cerebrolysin after just 2 days of usage.

For now, i tested w/ just 1ml (0.5ml per nostril) and i also feel like others (vlk, meatsauce) :
  • sensation of calm first
  • then alert motivation
So far nothing awesome, so i plan to increase the dosage as well as be careful about the head position when injecting it intranasally.

Materials :
  • MAD100 Nasal Atomization Device
  • cerebrolysin 5ml vials
  • distilled water
  • denture cleanser tablet (as disinfectant)
  • small airtight vial large enough to be used w/ the MAD100
Cleaning protocol :
  • distilled water + 1/2 denture cleanser tablet in a jar
  • put the nasal atomizer and the vial in it for 5 min
  • remove the nasal and the vial
  • clean them w/ distilled water
  • test several times the atomizer w/ distilled water
    • be sure to remove the atomizer cap prior to gentle aspiration the liquid (replace the cap after)
    • if not, you'll get lots of air in the atomizer and the atomization spray won't be so strong
  • put the content of the cer vial in the large airtight vial
IN Protocol :
  • First, I clean my noise w/ distilled water using the atomizer device (also to train myself using the nasal atomizer : quick pression needed)
  • gentle aspiration of cerebrolysin from the large vial (1ml for now)
  • I apply around 0.5ml per nostril
  • If very little liquid goes straight down the throat, it's well done
Then :
  • clean again atomizer using the jar w/ distilled water & denture cleanser, and place the atomizer in a plastic bag
  • place the airtigh vial in the fridge
  • ready for next day usage!

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#68 formergenius

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 01:00 PM

^ Looks like a process for the avid nootropics enthusiast.. I wonder if anyone's considering manufacturing and selling a Cerebrolysin nasal spray product. if possible at all? Surely then the interest would be greater, as not everyone is so ready to buy high-tech equipment to administer their noots with.
For example; I've built a tDCS device myself, but I just don't trust the darn thing, haha! In any case, I see a "hole in the market" here, as they say in Dutch.

Edited by formergenius, 22 August 2013 - 01:01 PM.


#69 cyberger

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:13 PM

[quote name='Psionic' timestamp='1377158273' post='606844']
Whats exactly the difference between Cebria and Cerebrolysin? It seems that Cebria works via oral administration so do you think its effectivity can be enhanced even more via Instranasal administration?
[/quote]

Cebria contains N-PEP-12 which is a peptide derivative of Cerebrolysin. Here are some details:

The ingredients of Cerebrolysin, and 2 named peptide fractions (N-PEP-12 and EO21):
[quote]
Cerebrolysin is a peptide mixture isolated from pig brain. A neurotrophic peptidergic mixture produced by standardized enzymatic breakdown of lipid-free porcine brain proteins, cerebrolysin is composed of 25% low molecular weight peptides (<10K DA) and 75% free amino acids, based on free nitrogen content [1]. The mixture has relatively high concentrations of magnesium, potassium, phosphorus, and selenium [2], as well as other elements [3, 4]. While the drug has antioxidant properties, it is much less than trolox or vitamin E [5]. The active ingredient(s) in the mixture are not known. Two concentrates of the peptide fraction of cerebrolysin are being tested, one called EO21 and the other N-PEP-12 [6].
[/quote]

Development of N-PEP-12:
[quote]
N-PEP-12 was developed by EBEWE Pharma (Unterach, Austria) as a compound that, although far less potent than cerebrolysin, can be administered orally. Cerebrolysin is safe to be administered at doses more than 20-fold greater than therapeutic doses (Leuschner, 1980a,b) and it was believed a less therapeutically potent oral derivative would be free of significant side-effects. This appears to be the case and the compound appears to have both neuroprotective effects on cortical cells and effects on memory performance in ‘normal’ aged rats (Hutter-Paier et al., 2004). Eighteen-month-old rats fed N-PEP-12 for 3 months performed significantly better on Morris maze escape latency than did those given placebo."
[/quote]

Study on N-PEP-12 and it's effectiveness:
[quote]
N-PEP-12 is a derivative of cerebrolysin, a brain-derived neuropeptide compound that has been approved for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease (AD) in more than 30 countries. N-PEP-12 is much less potent than cerebrolysin but it can be administered orally whereas the parent compound must be administered through multiple intravenous infusions. This study was undertaken to determine whether N-PEP-12 is effective in improving memory and other cognitive abilities among healthy older adults who have experienced 'normal' age-related memory loss. Subjects were 54 males and females, aged 50 years and older, who presented both subjective and objective evidence of memory loss since early adulthood. The study was a fully randomized, double-blind comparison of N-PEP-12 and placebo. Cognitive assessments were performed at baseline and following 30 days of treatment. The primary outcome measure was the Alzheimer's Disease Assessment Scale-Cognitive (ADAS-cog) Memory score, with the Syndrom Kurz Test (SKT) test, digit cancellation, digit span, verbal fluency and clinical ratings as secondary outcomes. N-PEP-12 treated subjects performed better than placebo-treated subjects on the ADAS-cog Memory score, the SKT, clinical ratings and some, but not other tests. N-PEP-12 may be an effective treatment for memory loss in healthy older adults. Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15729085
[/quote]


The Longecity anecodotal reports of effectiveness for N-PEP-12 (Cebria or Memoprove) have been mixed. Sunshinefrost, who had good results from injected Cerebrolysin reported the best results from oral NPEP-12:

[quote]
I feel sharp when i'm on it, i have more energy, i read a lot faster, memory is enhanced and, just like cere, i seem to be able to accomplish more in a day.

I was surprised by this noot, I had underestimated it. When i took the 1st dose i was not expecting that the "multi-focus point " seen in cerebrolysin would be apparent but right away i felt it."
[/quote]

Since some peptides can have poorer intestinal absorption (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10837560), creating an intransal solution for N-PEP-12 might be a cost-effective way to get benefits similar to Cerebrolysin.

Edited by cyberger, 22 August 2013 - 06:19 PM.

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#70 archangel

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:20 PM

Mortar and pestle...Cebria...intranasal aqueous solution...

A.

#71 spookytooth

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:22 PM

I have vast experience with Cerebrolysin and have used Cebria a few times. Cebria seems to provide stimulation similar to Cerebrolysin although the main reason I use Cerebrolysin is neurological repair so I see the stimulation as a bonus. I have a box of Cebria here and would like to try an intranasal solution. How do you prepare the solution?

Edited by spookytooth, 22 August 2013 - 06:24 PM.


#72 cyberger

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:34 PM

I have vast experience with Cerebrolysin and have used Cebria a few times. Cebria seems to provide stimulation similar to Cerebrolysin although the main reason I use Cerebrolysin is neurological repair so I see the stimulation as a bonus. I have a box of Cebria here and would like to try an intranasal solution. How do you prepare the solution?


Since Cerebolyisn is just composed of: "215.2mg porcine brain-derived peptide preparation (Cerebrolysin concentrate) in an aqueous solution composed of sodium hydroxide and water." to create the solution probably all you would need to do is open the Cebria capsules (282.8mg N-PEP-12), and mix it with 0.5 ml distilled water (Per Dr. Wolfe "ideal volumes are about 0.25 to 0.3 ml per nostril to reduce runoff but allow maximal mucosal coverage").

#73 dereknel

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 07:34 PM

I have vast experience with Cerebrolysin and have used Cebria a few times. Cebria seems to provide stimulation similar to Cerebrolysin although the main reason I use Cerebrolysin is neurological repair so I see the stimulation as a bonus. I have a box of Cebria here and would like to try an intranasal solution. How do you prepare the solution?



I agree that cebria gives similiar stimulation

#74 sunshinefrost

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 07:52 PM

Cebria seems to provide stimulation similar to Cerebrolysin although the main reason I use Cerebrolysin is neurological repair so I see the stimulation as a bonus.


Are you saying that cebria or npep12 is less of a neurological repair agent ?

#75 spookytooth

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 08:05 PM

Cebria seems to provide stimulation similar to Cerebrolysin although the main reason I use Cerebrolysin is neurological repair so I see the stimulation as a bonus.


Are you saying that cebria or npep12 is less of a neurological repair agent ?


I don't know if N-Pep-12 aids neurological repair as there are no studies on that. Its relationship to Cerebrolysin gives me hope though ^^

#76 sunshinefrost

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 08:18 PM

Cebria seems to provide stimulation similar to Cerebrolysin although the main reason I use Cerebrolysin is neurological repair so I see the stimulation as a bonus.


Are you saying that cebria or npep12 is less of a neurological repair agent ?


I don't know if N-Pep-12 aids neurological repair as there are no studies on that. Its relationship to Cerebrolysin gives me hope though ^^


They may act on a lesser scale but N-pep-12 provides a neuroprotective/repair like cerebrolysin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....2&from=N-PEP-12

#77 spookytooth

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 08:41 PM

Cebria seems to provide stimulation similar to Cerebrolysin although the main reason I use Cerebrolysin is neurological repair so I see the stimulation as a bonus.


Are you saying that cebria or npep12 is less of a neurological repair agent ?


I don't know if N-Pep-12 aids neurological repair as there are no studies on that. Its relationship to Cerebrolysin gives me hope though ^^


They may act on a lesser scale but N-pep-12 provides a neuroprotective/repair like cerebrolysin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....2&from=N-PEP-12


I know this study and it is about the neuroprotective action of N-Pep-12 not about repair. Those are two different things. And the information if the level of neuroprotection is similar to that of Cerebrolysin can not be taken from this study.

Edited by spookytooth, 22 August 2013 - 08:43 PM.


#78 sunshinefrost

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:25 PM

[quote name='spookytooth' timestamp='1377204104' post='606951']
[quote name='sunshinefrost' timestamp='1377202683' post='606945']
[quote name='spookytooth' timestamp='1377201904' post='606940']
[quote name='sunshinefrost' timestamp='1377201165' post='606937']
[quote name='spookytooth' timestamp='1377195760' post='606923']
Cebria seems to provide stimulation similar to Cerebrolysin although the main reason I use Cerebrolysin is neurological repair so I see the stimulation as a bonus.
[/quote]

Are you saying that cebria or npep12 is less of a neurological repair agent ?
[/quote]

I don't know if N-Pep-12 aids neurological repair as there are no studies on that. Its relationship to Cerebrolysin gives me hope though ^^
[/quote]

They may act on a lesser scale but N-pep-12 provides a neuroprotective/repair like cerebrolysin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....2&from=N-PEP-12
[/quote]

I know this study and it is about the neuroprotective action of N-Pep-12 not about repair. Those are two different things. And the information if the level of neuroprotection is similar to that of Cerebrolysin can not be taken from this study.
[/quote]

If Recovery from acute brain ischemia, cytotoxic hypoxia and brain lesions isnt repair, then i dont know what is.

Anyways i dont need repair, i need maintenance and working memory enhancement

Edited by sunshinefrost, 22 August 2013 - 09:28 PM.


#79 spookytooth

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:31 PM

If Recovery from acute brain ischemia, cytotoxic hypoxia and brain lesions isnt repair, then i dont know what is.

Anyways i dont need repair, i need maintenance and working memory enhancement



Neuroprotection and regeneration/repair are not synonymous. This study was done to see if the damage done could be diminished through protection of cells. If there is less damage through neuroprotection the recovery time is of course shorter or the general ability to recover is better. That does not mean that N-Pep-12 actually increases repair. This might still be the case but as I said there are no studies on that.

Edited by spookytooth, 22 August 2013 - 09:32 PM.


#80 sunshinefrost

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:38 PM

If Recovery from acute brain ischemia, cytotoxic hypoxia and brain lesions isnt repair, then i dont know what is.

Anyways i dont need repair, i need maintenance and working memory enhancement



Neuroprotection and regeneration/repair are not synonymous. This study was done to see if the damage done could be diminished through protection of cells. If there is less damage through neuroprotection the recovery time is of course shorter or the general ability to recover is better. That does not mean that N-Pep-12 actually increases repair. This might still be the case but as I said there are no studies on that.


Is neurogenesis and neuroplasticity related enough to repair ?

Clinical Research
N-PEP-12 – based on science and clinically tested
In published research studies, the neuropeptides have been shown to replenish age-associated neurochemical deficits, to counteract processes that cause memory problems and to support optimal brain health and function by:

• Supporting new brain cell production (NeuroGenesis)

• Supporting the formation of new brain cell connections (NeuroPlasticity)

• Protecting brain cells and their connections (NeuroProtection)

• Increasing glucose transport and utilization by the brain as well as increasing vitality and energy output of aging brain cells (NeuroMetabolism)

Protected, well-nourished neurons which have a strengthened cell structure and metabolism are the basis of a neural network in the brain that can perform well despite challenging external circumstances such as constant pressure and stress, or the natural aging process.

References:
Alvarez XA, Corzo L, Laredo M, Sampedro C, Cacabelos R, Windisch M, Moessler H, Crook TH: Neuropeptide Dietary Product N-PEP12 Enhances Cognitive Function and Activates Brain Bioelectrical Activity in Healthy Elderly Subjects. Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol 2005, 27(7): 483-487.
Volc D, Alvarez A, Moessler H: Cognitive Effects of the Novel Neuroprotective Dietary Product N-PEP-12: Evidence from a Self-Assessment Study. JATROS Special Edition 2005.
Crook TH, Ferris SH, Alvarez XA, Laredo M, Moessler H: Effects of N-PEP-12 on memory among older adults. Int Clin Psychopharmacol 2005, 20(2): 97-100.
Windisch M, Hutter-Paier B, Grygar E, Doppler E, Moessler H: N-PEP-12 – a novel peptide compound that protects cortical neurons in culture against different age and disease associated lesions. J Neural Transm 2005, 112: 1331-1343.




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#81 spookytooth

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:44 PM

If Recovery from acute brain ischemia, cytotoxic hypoxia and brain lesions isnt repair, then i dont know what is.

Anyways i dont need repair, i need maintenance and working memory enhancement



Neuroprotection and regeneration/repair are not synonymous. This study was done to see if the damage done could be diminished through protection of cells. If there is less damage through neuroprotection the recovery time is of course shorter or the general ability to recover is better. That does not mean that N-Pep-12 actually increases repair. This might still be the case but as I said there are no studies on that.


Is neurogenesis and neuroplasticity related enough to repair ?

Clinical Research
N-PEP-12 – based on science and clinically tested
In published research studies, the neuropeptides have been shown to replenish age-associated neurochemical deficits, to counteract processes that cause memory problems and to support optimal brain health and function by:

• Supporting new brain cell production (NeuroGenesis)

• Supporting the formation of new brain cell connections (NeuroPlasticity)

• Protecting brain cells and their connections (NeuroProtection)

• Increasing glucose transport and utilization by the brain as well as increasing vitality and energy output of aging brain cells (NeuroMetabolism)

Protected, well-nourished neurons which have a strengthened cell structure and metabolism are the basis of a neural network in the brain that can perform well despite challenging external circumstances such as constant pressure and stress, or the natural aging process.

References:
Alvarez XA, Corzo L, Laredo M, Sampedro C, Cacabelos R, Windisch M, Moessler H, Crook TH: Neuropeptide Dietary Product N-PEP12 Enhances Cognitive Function and Activates Brain Bioelectrical Activity in Healthy Elderly Subjects. Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol 2005, 27(7): 483-487.
Volc D, Alvarez A, Moessler H: Cognitive Effects of the Novel Neuroprotective Dietary Product N-PEP-12: Evidence from a Self-Assessment Study. JATROS Special Edition 2005.
Crook TH, Ferris SH, Alvarez XA, Laredo M, Moessler H: Effects of N-PEP-12 on memory among older adults. Int Clin Psychopharmacol 2005, 20(2): 97-100.
Windisch M, Hutter-Paier B, Grygar E, Doppler E, Moessler H: N-PEP-12 – a novel peptide compound that protects cortical neurons in culture against different age and disease associated lesions. J Neural Transm 2005, 112: 1331-1343.



Neurogenesis and neuroplasticity is exactly what to look for when it comes to repair :) I did not know of that paper. Thanks for the info! :)

Weird it doesn't show up on pubmed though http://www.ncbi.nlm..../?term=n-pep-12

#82 spookytooth

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:48 PM

I wonder where they are getting the information about the neurogenesis and neuroplasticity aspects of N-Pep-12 from. Certainly not from the papers they cite as sources.

#83 Krabby

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:01 AM

Some very good points...

The main problem will probably be stuff growing in the cerebrolysin itself. If it is stored in the fridge, that might not actually be a problem anyway, but it's better to be safe than sorry!
Chitosan is looking really good as an additive now...


Hey VLK.
Any updates on your experience? How does it compare to IM/IV as of now?

Unfortunately I have been unable to start my trail because i'm out of the country but I did receive my cerebrolysin.
Will start soon.

#84 vlk

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 10:18 AM

I don't know if it's due to some different circumstances in my life at the moment, the delivery method, or if I was just using too much before (5ml/day now 0.5-1ml/day), but I have seen some very nice improvements recently.

One of my biggest problems for a few years now has been working memory. One example of this is my online banking password - I used to have such a long method of entering this i.e. assume my password is "password":
Enter the following characters from your password: 1,5,7
I look at the first box, number 1, I can do that - p
OK, 5 next, so I speak to myself, counting in my head - p a s s w
OK, 5 must be w, what's next?
Look back at the top, 7 next - p a s s w o r

You would think that after 2 -3 years, I wouldn't still be struggling with something so simple, and now, suddenly, I'm not.
I look at the top, 1 5 7, then enter p w r, I don't have to spell out my password in my head, or check back to see which character number of the password I need next.


I've noticed the same in DNB (Dual-N-Back), I've plateaued at about 50% D5B for over a year now, and suddenly earlier this week, I realised I was doing it wrong.
I would remember the sounds by speaking them in my head:
e.g. for D3B:
K
"K"
L
"KL"
Q
"KLQ"
R
"RLQ"
L
"RLQ"
*click for match*

At the same time I would try to repeatedly flick my eyes along the path the square has taken and do the same thing visually.

This week though, random matches have just popped into my head, I just know that there was an audio or visual match.
It's like I'm slowly switching from manual mode to automatic control of my memory.
My DNB scores haven't gone up much yet, but even if they don't, being able to remember numbers, directions names etc. without having to constantly repeat them to myself would still be a big improvement for me!

#85 spookytooth

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 10:24 AM

I don't know if it's due to some different circumstances in my life at the moment, the delivery method, or if I was just using too much before (5ml/day now 0.5-1ml/day), but I have seen some very nice improvements recently.

One of my biggest problems for a few years now has been working memory. One example of this is my online banking password - I used to have such a long method of entering this i.e. assume my password is "password":
Enter the following characters from your password: 1,5,7
I look at the first box, number 1, I can do that - p
OK, 5 next, so I speak to myself, counting in my head - p a s s w
OK, 5 must be w, what's next?
Look back at the top, 7 next - p a s s w o r

You would think that after 2 -3 years, I wouldn't still be struggling with something so simple, and now, suddenly, I'm not.
I look at the top, 1 5 7, then enter p w r, I don't have to spell out my password in my head, or check back to see which character number of the password I need next.


I've noticed the same in DNB (Dual-N-Back), I've plateaued at about 50% D5B for over a year now, and suddenly earlier this week, I realised I was doing it wrong.
I would remember the sounds by speaking them in my head:
e.g. for D3B:
K
"K"
L
"KL"
Q
"KLQ"
R
"RLQ"
L
"RLQ"
*click for match*

At the same time I would try to repeatedly flick my eyes along the path the square has taken and do the same thing visually.

This week though, random matches have just popped into my head, I just know that there was an audio or visual match.
It's like I'm slowly switching from manual mode to automatic control of my memory.
My DNB scores haven't gone up much yet, but even if they don't, being able to remember numbers, directions names etc. without having to constantly repeat them to myself would still be a big improvement for me!


I have noticed that sometimes when either reducing the dose or when I stop taking Cerebrolysin altogether I perceive an increase in cognition. This is especially true when going from 10ml/day to 0. O should add that I do not feel cognitively hindered whilst on Cerebrolysin.

I don't know if it's due to some different circumstances in my life at the moment, the delivery method, or if I was just using too much before (5ml/day now 0.5-1ml/day), but I have seen some very nice improvements recently.

One of my biggest problems for a few years now has been working memory. One example of this is my online banking password - I used to have such a long method of entering this i.e. assume my password is "password":
Enter the following characters from your password: 1,5,7
I look at the first box, number 1, I can do that - p
OK, 5 next, so I speak to myself, counting in my head - p a s s w
OK, 5 must be w, what's next?
Look back at the top, 7 next - p a s s w o r

You would think that after 2 -3 years, I wouldn't still be struggling with something so simple, and now, suddenly, I'm not.
I look at the top, 1 5 7, then enter p w r, I don't have to spell out my password in my head, or check back to see which character number of the password I need next.


I've noticed the same in DNB (Dual-N-Back), I've plateaued at about 50% D5B for over a year now, and suddenly earlier this week, I realised I was doing it wrong.
I would remember the sounds by speaking them in my head:
e.g. for D3B:
K
"K"
L
"KL"
Q
"KLQ"
R
"RLQ"
L
"RLQ"
*click for match*

At the same time I would try to repeatedly flick my eyes along the path the square has taken and do the same thing visually.

This week though, random matches have just popped into my head, I just know that there was an audio or visual match.
It's like I'm slowly switching from manual mode to automatic control of my memory.
My DNB scores haven't gone up much yet, but even if they don't, being able to remember numbers, directions names etc. without having to constantly repeat them to myself would still be a big improvement for me!


I have noticed that sometimes when either reducing the dose or when I stop taking Cerebrolysin altogether I perceive an increase in cognition. This is especially true when going from 10ml/day to 0. I should add that I do not feel cognitively hindered whilst on Cerebrolysin.

#86 vlk

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 01:15 PM

I have noticed that sometimes when either reducing the dose or when I stop taking Cerebrolysin altogether I perceive an increase in cognition. This is especially true when going from 10ml/day to 0. I should add that I do not feel cognitively hindered whilst on Cerebrolysin.



That's interesting, I've always used 5ml IM for a few weeks at a time, and 0.5-1ml IN is definitely better for me.

My chitosan should be arriving soon, I was wondering if adding chitosan might make it too strong again - I was thinking of doing 1ml every other day or maybe every 3rd day.
I feel like I was improving much faster when I was taking larger amounts IN once or twice a day, rather than 0.1ml at a time with multiple doses over the day, which is what I've been doing the last few days.

I feel like the spike in neurotrophic factors may be quite important, and more time between doses might prevent down-regulation of the body's own neurotrophic factors. <---This is all complete guesswork, based on how it feels to me, if anyone has any information that might support or disprove this, please share it. EDIT: and by "guesswork", I mean I'm using logical assumptions, but have no evidence to back it up.


EDIT2: I've seen a few studies that reported success from dosing cerebrolysin as low as 1ml every other day, but none that compare that intermittent use to daily use.

Edited by vlk, 23 August 2013 - 01:48 PM.


#87 Psionic

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:11 PM

In the course of two days I ingested nearly 5ml IN adminitered via common nasal spray cutted with distiled water, its hard to compare as its my first usage of Cerebrolysin..

I can surely say that I feel even very low doses such as 0.1-0.25ml, theres slight pressure in my forehead and some sort of weird feeling, in lightly dreamy spirits. The benefits are mostly same as other users described in main Cerebrolysin thread such as increased mental precision and I feel somewhat better about one hour after dosage. As most Cerebrolysin users dosed once daily via IM/IV its very interesting if multiple dosing through the day can really bring any benefits.

Chitosan is nearly impossible to get here, only thing I found is some oily chitosan capsules with evening primrose and other additives, so I wont probably use that :// I really wonder what it can bring to its already strong effects.

#88 AwesomeName

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:23 PM

Intra-nasal cerebrolysin would be great to give to my grandparents with dementia.

They have a lot of money so I could convince them to buy and use it for a very long time.

I always wanted to give them this stuff, but injecting it just too weird for them.
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#89 Dale Taylor

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 10:46 PM

Can someone tell me if you would need a needle to get the stuff out of the Vials? Or is it pourable? I love to try this stuff but just can't have needles about the place due to being an x drug user.

Was planing on using it in a nasal pump spray.

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#90 Psionic

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 11:49 PM

Can someone tell me if you would need a needle to get the stuff out of the Vials? Or is it pourable? I love to try this stuff but just can't have needles about the place due to being an x drug user.

Was planing on using it in a nasal pump spray.


You can pour the cerebrolysin off the vial with some effort using the soaking hose of nasal spray which I done :) I also thought that it will pour when breaking off, but its not the case, cerebro is somewhat dense in order to get it from thin orifice. Also some basic pipette can be used to do the work.
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