183 replies to this topic

[Esoparagon]

I had the same issues on ketogenic diets. TSH of 3 > is very likely to be causing these problems, carb up and you'll feel much better!

On potatoes and fruit? I'm going to gain a whole bunch of weight if I eat 150g of carbs a day. I'm so sick of being fat and being upset about it. I guess being fat and functional is better than being unable to function. I really don't know. I have read other sources saying thyroid hormone drops because it no longer has to get glucose into cells. Not sure what to think. Carbs never made me feel good. I'll dump the omega-6 though.

Edited by Esoparagon, 03 September 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[lourdaud]

I had the same issues on ketogenic diets. TSH of 3 > is very likely to be causing these problems, carb up and you'll feel much better!

On potatoes and fruit? I'm going to gain a whole bunch of weight if I eat 150g of carbs a day. I'm so sick of being fat and being upset about it. I guess being fat and functional is better than being unable to function. I really don't know. I have read other sources saying thyroid hormone drops because it no longer has to get glucose into cells. Not sure what to think. Carbs never made me feel good. I'll dump the omega-6 though.

You'll probably need even more carbs, especially if you're physically active. You should definitely drop the omega-6, try to avoid poly-unsaturated fats as much as you can.
http://perfecthealth...-pros-and-cons/
For me, paleo dieting worked very well for a while but over time my health got worse and worse.
As for the added weight, personally my body composition and metabolic rate got better from going back on a high carb diet. What bugs me though is the increased water retention, makes my face look like shit. But as you say, rather that than feeling like shit..

[Godof Smallthings]

If you take a 45 minute brisk walk every day like I suggested above, you won't gain weight even if you add carbs.

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 03 September 2013 - 01:36 PM.

[renfr]

Carbs making you fat is a myth unless you eat tremendous amounts.
You need minimum 150g of carbs for significant T4 to T3 conversion to occur, if there is no carb your body will reduce its metabolism thinking you don't have anything to eat.

[Esoparagon]

Carbs making you fat is a myth unless you eat tremendous amounts.
You need minimum 150g of carbs for significant T4 to T3 conversion to occur, if there is no carb your body will reduce its metabolism thinking you don't have anything to eat.

I think the carbohydrate idea is not everything but not totally flawed. For some people, I do think carbs make them fat. In terms of T3, I have read that since T3 transforts glucose into cells, and on keto you are not eating many carbs, you need less because you need to transport less glucose into cells so the reduction makes sense. I really don't know though. If it's really about the carbs then I'll have to increase them.

I think it may be a sleep problem. I used a sleep app and it seems I'm moving around a lot. It suggested I got 53% deep sleep. Surely it should be more.

[Esoparagon]

I started eating Nori or sea weed for iodine. I don't know if that's a bad idea.

[Luminosity]

I agree with those who say you should start eating carbs.

The binges are part of the diet.

I'm sorry you're dealing with all of that.

A practitioner of Oriental Medicine would say you have manifestations of kidney issues, which you yourself have mentioned having. These can be something too subtle for an MD to diagnose but can still impact your life.

I strongly feel you need to gently go back to eating a normal amount of carbs. A low carb diet can cause kidney issues for some people and make them worse for others. A lack of carbs can cause bingeing on sweets or an over reliance on caffeine and other stimulants. Some carbs are more digestible than others, like rice, yams, sweet potatoes and tapioca. Eat them warm and cooked, chew them well, salivate, and eat slowly. Start slow. Sometimes moving around before eating will up your digestion.

In Chinese Medicine eating cold food and drink is bad for your kidneys. You can find out more about how Chinese Medicine can help you on my thread here:
http://www.longecity...inese-medicine/

A practitioner of Chinese Medicine would tell you to have a hot drink and a hot breakfast in the morning. Uncooked food like fruit and yogurt, etc. should be eaten at room temperature. You should avoid coffee and tea, even decaffeinated coffee, green or decaffeinated tea, even decaffeinated green tea. They are going to irritate your kidneys for now. You could take some warm unsweetened almond milk with some carob powder in it, or a bland non-acidic herb tea, like Rooibos or Honeybush tea.
http://shop.numitea....e@Teabag@Herbal
There is a coffee substitute called Teeccino. http://teeccino.com
I like it a lot. Drink these things hot and plain.

I understand you don't feel like eating breakfast, so start with a hot drink for now and work your way up as you can. Skipping meals is bad for your kidneys.

I headed a support group for people with certain chronic illness for ten years. I can tell you that thyroid problems are underdiagnosed. The test often fails to show that people have thyroid problems even if they do. These people sometimes feel better when they get the right thyroid medications, but this can be trickier than it looks. Personally I would favor going to an acupuncturist for this problem. There is a theory that taking medications, even the right ones makes, your thyroid lazy. Chinese medicine makes your own organs function properly.

Caffeine is going to hurt your adrenal glands/kidneys. You need to taper off this and make these changes. Cut back on the chocolate.

As for how much of this is physical. I feel perhaps 50% of it is physical, brought on by your ketogenic diet and pre-existing kidney problems. Bad combination. Maybe you felt better on the ketogenic diet because of undiagnosed food allergies. Some starches are better than others.

You have mentioned feeling 50% better just from going to the doctor, and having stress from your relationship and studies. That could be a part of this. Some people also do something called somatization, where they convert emotional stress to a physical illness. You want to find a way to express your feelings more directly. See if you can get weekly sessions with a talk therapist. Maybe that would help.

I do believe there is a physical component however, and that it needs to be addressed by dietary changes and acupuncture and Chinese herbs. Your physical issues are what MD's are often bad (look at the nonsense with the thyroid stuff). If you keep going to to MD's for your physical stuff, there is a good chance it will turn into a waste of time or worse. Look at these threads:

http://www.longecity...-been-to-4-mds/
http://www.longecity...nd-proteinuria/

Chinese Medicine is really good at the type of physical issues you are dealing with. They consider the kidneys to the the seat of the life force. The kidneys also influence the libido.

Good luck.

Edited by Luminosity, 06 September 2013 - 06:57 AM.

[rodeeze]

I started eating Nori or sea weed for iodine. I don't know if that's a bad idea.

Do you have mercury fillings by any chance? I saw in an earlier post you take ALA and NAC which can pull Mercury from the fillings and cross the BBB. Just a thought but from what It seems like, you have Adrenal Fatigue which causes problems with Neurotransmission , I had the same thing being on a ketogenic diet and not refeeding correctly.

[Esoparagon]

I started eating Nori or sea weed for iodine. I don't know if that's a bad idea.

Do you have mercury fillings by any chance? I saw in an earlier post you take ALA and NAC which can pull Mercury from the fillings and cross the BBB. Just a thought but from what It seems like, you have Adrenal Fatigue which causes problems with Neurotransmission , I had the same thing being on a ketogenic diet and not refeeding correctly.

I have some small fillings but I don't think they are mercury but I'm not certain.

[Esoparagon]

I agree with those who say you should start eating carbs.

The binges are part of the diet.

I'm sorry you're dealing with all of that.

A practitioner of Oriental Medicine would say you have manifestations of kidney issues, which you yourself have mentioned having. These can be something too subtle for an MD to diagnose but can still impact your life.

I strongly feel you need to gently go back to eating a normal amount of carbs. A low carb diet can cause kidney issues for some people and make them worse for others. A lack of carbs can cause bingeing on sweets or an over reliance on caffeine and other stimulants. Some carbs are more digestible than others, like rice, yams, sweet potatoes and tapioca. Eat them warm and cooked, chew them well, salivate, and eat slowly. Start slow. Sometimes moving around before eating will up your digestion.

In Chinese Medicine eating cold food and drink is bad for your kidneys. You can find out more about how Chinese Medicine can help you on my thread here:
http://www.longecity...inese-medicine/

A practitioner of Chinese Medicine would tell you to have a hot drink and a hot breakfast in the morning. Uncooked food like fruit and yogurt, etc. should be eaten at room temperature. You should avoid coffee and tea, even decaffeinated coffee, green or decaffeinated tea, even decaffeinated green tea. They are going to irritate your kidneys for now. You could take some warm unsweetened almond milk with some carob powder in it, or a bland non-acidic herb tea, like Rooibos or Honeybush tea.
http://shop.numitea....e@Teabag@Herbal
There is a coffee substitute called Teeccino. http://teeccino.com
I like it a lot. Drink these things hot and plain.

I understand you don't feel like eating breakfast, so start with a hot drink for now and work your way up as you can. Skipping meals is bad for your kidneys.

I headed a support group for people with certain chronic illness for ten years. I can tell you that thyroid problems are underdiagnosed. The test often fails to show that people have thyroid problems even if they do. These people sometimes feel better when they get the right thyroid medications, but this can be trickier than it looks. Personally I would favor going to an acupuncturist for this problem. There is a theory that taking medications, even the right ones makes, your thyroid lazy. Chinese medicine makes your own organs function properly.

Caffeine is going to hurt your adrenal glands/kidneys. You need to taper off this and make these changes. Cut back on the chocolate.

As for how much of this is physical. I feel perhaps 50% of it is physical, brought on by your ketogenic diet and pre-existing kidney problems. Bad combination. Maybe you felt better on the ketogenic diet because of undiagnosed food allergies. Some starches are better than others.

You have mentioned feeling 50% better just from going to the doctor, and having stress from your relationship and studies. That could be a part of this. Some people also do something called somatization, where they convert emotional stress to a physical illness. You want to find a way to express your feelings more directly. See if you can get weekly sessions with a talk therapist. Maybe that would help.

I do believe there is a physical component however, and that it needs to be addressed by dietary changes and acupuncture and Chinese herbs. Your physical issues are what MD's are often bad (look at the nonsense with the thyroid stuff). If you keep going to to MD's for your physical stuff, there is a good chance it will turn into a waste of time or worse. Look at these threads:

http://www.longecity...-been-to-4-mds/
http://www.longecity...nd-proteinuria/

Chinese Medicine is really good at the type of physical issues you are dealing with. They consider the kidneys to the the seat of the life force. The kidneys also influence the libido.

Good luck.

Thank you very much for taking the time to help I felt a bit better for 3 days and then went back to how I was. I'm back to how I was. I feel completely out of it right now again. I have to write up a report and cannot concentrate to save myself. I didn't use caffeine BEFORE the brain fog came on, just to be clear on that. It is something I ramped up as brain fog got so bad. I feel like I should go get some right now so I can churn out this report and not fail at life

I have been more consistently eating breakfast now with plenty of protein. I am not against eating. That's my problem lol. I only started skipping breakfast in an attempt to intermittently fast each day to lose weight. I have cut out chocolate completely.

[renfr]

Carbs making you fat is a myth unless you eat tremendous amounts.
You need minimum 150g of carbs for significant T4 to T3 conversion to occur, if there is no carb your body will reduce its metabolism thinking you don't have anything to eat.

I think the carbohydrate idea is not everything but not totally flawed. For some people, I do think carbs make them fat. In terms of T3, I have read that since T3 transforts glucose into cells, and on keto you are not eating many carbs, you need less because you need to transport less glucose into cells so the reduction makes sense. I really don't know though. If it's really about the carbs then I'll have to increase them.

I think it may be a sleep problem. I used a sleep app and it seems I'm moving around a lot. It suggested I got 53% deep sleep. Surely it should be more.

Edited by renfr, 07 September 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[renfr]

Carbs making you fat is a myth unless you eat tremendous amounts.
You need minimum 150g of carbs for significant T4 to T3 conversion to occur, if there is no carb your body will reduce its metabolism thinking you don't have anything to eat.

I think the carbohydrate idea is not everything but not totally flawed. For some people, I do think carbs make them fat. In terms of T3, I have read that since T3 transforts glucose into cells, and on keto you are not eating many carbs, you need less because you need to transport less glucose into cells so the reduction makes sense. I really don't know though. If it's really about the carbs then I'll have to increase them.

I think it may be a sleep problem. I used a sleep app and it seems I'm moving around a lot. It suggested I got 53% deep sleep. Surely it should be more.

Carbs making you fat is a myth unless you eat tremendous amounts.
You need minimum 150g of carbs for significant T4 to T3 conversion to occur, if there is no carb your body will reduce its metabolism thinking you don't have anything to eat.

I think the carbohydrate idea is not everything but not totally flawed. For some people, I do think carbs make them fat. In terms of T3, I have read that since T3 transforts glucose into cells, and on keto you are not eating many carbs, you need less because you need to transport less glucose into cells so the reduction makes sense. I really don't know though. If it's really about the carbs then I'll have to increase them.

I think it may be a sleep problem. I used a sleep app and it seems I'm moving around a lot. It suggested I got 53% deep sleep. Surely it should be more.

Another suggestion : eat like a king for breakfast and eat like a pauper for dinner, this is because cortisol levels are at their highest in the morning and at their lowest in the night therefore you need to eat carbs in order to blunt cortisol response and decrease gluconeogenesis and catabolism. Also this is when you're the most active.

You should consume nearly half your calories for breakfast, best would be with lots of carbs, carbs boost T3 production tremendously.
I too was scared of carbs thinking they would make me fat and all, what was making me fat wasn't the carbs it was refined sugars, processed foods, hydrogenated oils and all of that.
Lack of iodine is also a factor in that.


More interesting is the thermogenic effect of nutrients :
- Proteins 25%
- Carbs 7%
- Fat 2-3%
which means that 25% of the calories of your protein intake is needed to process what you ate in proteins.

But also add up the fact that carbs boost your T3 and many studies are here to confirm that :
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7096916
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3396499

Search "triiodothyronine carbohydrates" and many studies will pop up.

What is true to say is : high carb diets lead to decreased longevity while high fat diets increase longevity and slows down tumor growth. Higher heart rate, increased blood pressure play a role in that but that damage you can counter with supplements and low omega6/3 ratio.
Some people seem to naturally thrive on high fat diets (maybe do they have a genetic predisposition, good microbiome?) while other will gain a lot of weight and feel unhappy with that.

Last but not least : never undereat! A man like you needs 2500 calories at least per day, what matters most is not your caloric intake but your net caloric intake (after taking into account calories spent during the day including sleeping).
Don't go under -500 net calories as this might be counterproductive.

So to sum it up :
- Eat lots of carbs (healthy carbs : very few from unhealthy carbs such as refined sugars and processed foods, moderate amount from fruits and grains and high amounts from vegetables which contains carbs harder to break down)
A good amount to start with is 200g of carbs then you can go up.
- Eat a lot of protein : considering your build I suggest 175-200g of proteins, take a protein shake if you don't get enough from food (be careful with shakes, for whey protein take filtered whey with low levels of lactose and +80% of protein, avoid soy protein and choose shakes with as few carbs and fat as possible, I recommend Myprotein blends personally)
- Keep a low amount of fats but reasonable try to keep it under 25% of your calories, 15-20% at best, avoid most vegetable oils (olive oil is fine in small amounts though), don't cook food with butter but add it on the food once it's cooked when it's hot.
- Avoid goitrogens which depresses thyroid function (examples are soy, cassava, broccoli and vegetables from the brassica family, flax seed, strawberries, almonds overall when bitter, pears, etc...), you don't need to religiously avoid all of them, almonds in small amounts, strawberries and pears in small amounts are OK however don't even touch soy, flax seed or broccoli with a barge pole.
- Eat a lot in the morning (almost half of your calories), moderately at lunch and like a pauper at dinner
- Don't undereat and keep your net calories between -300 and -500 (for that you have to calculate a 24h energy expenditure (TDEE) that includes sleeping, exercising, resting, etc...)
- Eat a lot of seaweed or take SSKI solution or kelp capsules to maximize your thyroid function
- Keep a low omega6/3 ratio therefore avoid nuts, processed goods, hydrogenated oils, etc... and everything high in PUFAs, take fish oil caps (if you have cash for it take high quality lovaza/omacor which is the most purified and highest quality fish oil supplement you can ever find)
- A last thing that I regularly do is to take cold showers in order to boost your circulation, force your body to speed up its metabolism to heat up the machine back to 37°C (98.6°F), best time to do it is before sleeping, it's very good to counter stress, burn BAT (brown adipose tissue), boost thyroid function and metabolism. It's normal to have shakes in your stomach while cold showering, it's your muscles contracting to create more heat.
You can also do a finnish bath therapy, which is hot shower to begin with (or sauna if you have one) and then cool it off with a cold shower, it heals your skin, strenghtens your body and mind, cold water is bitchy in the beginning but 1 min after your body starts adapting.

Edited by renfr, 07 September 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[Esoparagon]

Ok I'm going to start eating like a king for breakfast. I had been doing the inverse. Eating huge meals at night, light or no breakfast, moderate or no lunch. I'm willing to try huge breakfasts! I often try to restrict below 1800 calories to lose weight, and I'm so desperate sometimes I consider sub 1000 or nothing. I'll try to stick to 2500 a day but I want to lose weight. I will consider upping my carbs to 150g a day if things don't improve. Cold showers are something I've done in the past, I can do that again. Already avoid omega-6. Probably get 150g of protein a day and I delibrately try to keep it below that. I can easily get 200g a day. No problems. Eating enough of anything is never a problem lol. My stomach is a bottomless pit.

I'll also continue to try to improve my sleep quality. My sleep app seems to show me tossing around a lot even though I don't remember ever waking up or tossing around. Subjectively it feels like I sleep deeply all night, but that must not be the case. The app suggests 50% deep sleep.

Two nights ago I decided to sleep for as long as I wanted and I slept for 13 hours.

[Luminosity]

Thanks for responding. I'm glad to know you weren't using caffeine before. I'm glad you are eating more. Eating a low calorie diet is destructive. Some 23 year old males are actually still growing and adding to the bones they will have the rest of their life. Eating less than a normal amount of calories is not worth it. Besides, your body's set point can change when you diet and you may retain the weight by going into a power save mode. Eating well and regularly may help persuade your body to go out of power save mode, up the energy and reset the thyroid, eventually. I believe that thyroid conditions are often power save modes brought on by dieting, fasting and skipping meals. There may be other components of your problems, however.

I broke the code. You're 23 years old. You're slightly over 6'4" You used to weigh 238 pounds. Then you weighed 202. You have since put on about 17 pounds which you think is mostly muscle so you now weigh about 219 pounds. When you were seventeen you weighed 187 and you want to get back to that.

You didn't sound heavy to me but I'm not a man and I'm not that tall. Some charts put you as overweight but the US Navy finds you enlistable (Don't join). If you can press that much weight with your legs you may have a lot of muscle in your lower body which weighs more than fat. You aren't that heavy.

You might want to give up on perfection for now, and stop dieting. Just be healthy. As far as women go, compliments go a long way, as do charm and romance. Not to mention flowers. The guy who is worried about being perfect is going to lose out to the guy who knows how to talk to girls.

http://www.navycs.co...eightchart.html

Edited by Luminosity, 09 September 2013 - 03:15 AM.

[Esoparagon]

Thanks for responding. I'm glad to know you weren't using caffeine before. I'm glad you are eating more. Eating a low calorie diet is destructive. Some 23 year old males are actually still growing and adding to the bones they will have the rest of their life. Eating less than a normal amount of calories is not worth it. Besides, your body's set point can change when you diet and you may retain the weight by going into a power save mode. Eating well and regularly may help persuade your body to go out of power save mode, up the energy and reset the thyroid, eventually. I believe that thyroid conditions are often power save modes brought on by dieting, fasting and skipping meals. There may be other components of your problems, however.

I broke the code. You're 23 years old. You're slightly over 6'4" You used to weigh 238 pounds. Then you weighed 202. You have since put on about 17 pounds which you think is mostly muscle so you now weigh about 219 pounds. When you were seventeen you weighed 187 and you want to get back to that.

You didn't sound heavy to me but I'm not a man and I'm not that tall. Some charts put you as overweight but the US Navy finds you enlistable (Don't join). If you can press that much weight with your legs you may have a lot of muscle in your lower body which weighs more than fat. You aren't that heavy.

You might want to give up on perfection for now, and stop dieting. Just be healthy. As far as women go, compliments go a long way, as do charm and romance. Not to mention flowers. The guy who is worried about being perfect is going to lose out to the guy who knows how to talk to girls.

http://www.navycs.co...eightchart.html

Right, I'm not huge but I'm definitely overweight. I'm probably around 25% BF. At this point in my life, I hate food and wish I didn't have to deal with it. Bane of my existence.

[renfr]

You say you want to eat 1800 kcals a day but you will hardly lose any weight with that.
I already tried to eat around 1700-1900 kcals a day to no avail, overall for a guy like you (194 cm) you need a lot more calories.
Calculate your TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) and start from there, try to fit your energy expenditure (including sleep) and you'll get the number of kcals you need to maintain weight.
Just eat 300-500 kcals under this TDEE to lose weight and 1800 kcals is well over this so I'm not sure this is a good idea!
For instance I'm much smaller than you and my TDEE is 2600 kcals per day I therefore eat around 2100-2400 kcals a day and I lose weight unlike when I was eating a mere 1600-1800 kcals.

You can fool your body by eating huge amounts of carbs (+70% of your macronutrient intake) in the morning but I'm not sure how long this will last.
When your body doesn't get what it really needs, it will produce cortisol to fight off stress, poor appetite is also a stressor, if your body (in normal conditions) spends 3000 kcals to sleep and have a sedentary life and you eat 1800 kcals you're putting a whole lot of stress to your body, your weight will stagnate as it will produce more cortisol which will shut down thyroid function.
The less you eat the more your body will avenge.

Also balance your carbs, carbs with high, medium GI (glycemic index, a list here : http://www.montignac...-index/#tab_low) in the morning, carbs with medium and low GI for midday and carbs with low GI in the night (vegetables overall).

Don't let cortisol control you, you have to take control of its production.
Carbs will do the trick as well as a good thyroid function.
I had the same issue with very high cortisol levels until I learnt that the best way to counter cortisol spikes in the morning is to eat a lot of carbs in the morning to blunt cortisol levels.

Once my cortisol levels went down I noticed :
- faster wound healing
- feeling better even after a bad night or a short night
- higher thyroid function, higher body temperature
- food craving feelings disappeared during all the day (due to decreased leptin production I guess : http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11824503)
- cold showers feel less rough
- more regular bowel movements

Cortisol and thyroid hormone status are something that are tightly related, high cortisol depresses thyroid function and low thyroid function impairs cortisol metabolism which leads to cortisol buildup. Therefore you need to cure both.

Some supplements that will help lower these cortisol levels besides of what I told you about carbs :
- Zinc (in the morning with food and keep your copper levels in check or take 1mg copper per 10 mg zinc)
- Rhodiola rosea (strong russian adaptogen that was shown in many studies to effectively lower cortisol)
- Ashwagandha (another adaptogen)
- No caffeine, no alcohol, no smoking (all three increase cortisol)
- B vitamins
- Ginkgo biloba may help as well
- Fish oil, not only to balance omega6/3 ratio but also to lower cortisol
- NAC

[JBForrester]

Wait, did you even get your cortisol levels checked? Because with hypothyroidism comes the risk of having hashimotos, and those can lead to things like Addison's disease, which is marked by a low cortisol level. I have hypothyroidism (which funny enough I developed while travelling in Oz), and mild hashimoto's, and I just got my blood tested with results being low cortisol (but still in range). I'm now going to see if there is any onset of Addison's. http://www.yourhormo...ns_disease.aspx
Are you on synthroid yet? I waited a year before getting diagnosed, while having all the symptoms you explained having. I gained a bunch of weight, and decided to go on the Paleo Diet. The result of that decision was a complete and utter nightmare, and very, very stupid of me. Not only did it increase my mental fatigue, I became almost underweight as a result, which most likely wreaked havoc to my entire endocrine system. I should have gone to a doctor as soon as I felt symptoms of brain fog and mental fatigue. I highly encourage you to go on meds right away and not wait, as to prevent the onset of any type of additional disease. If your doctor doesn't think so, please switch to an endocrinologist, who knows best about what you need and your symptoms.

[Godof Smallthings]

I would also check for Addison's like I mentioned in my first post. My friend has it. It took the doctors over a month to diagnose it correctly.

[Esoparagon]

Wait, did you even get your cortisol levels checked? Because with hypothyroidism comes the risk of having hashimotos, and those can lead to things like Addison's disease, which is marked by a low cortisol level. I have hypothyroidism (which funny enough I developed while travelling in Oz), and mild hashimoto's, and I just got my blood tested with results being low cortisol (but still in range). I'm now going to see if there is any onset of Addison's. http://www.yourhormo...ns_disease.aspx
Are you on synthroid yet? I waited a year before getting diagnosed, while having all the symptoms you explained having. I gained a bunch of weight, and decided to go on the Paleo Diet. The result of that decision was a complete and utter nightmare, and very, very stupid of me. Not only did it increase my mental fatigue, I became almost underweight as a result, which most likely wreaked havoc to my entire endocrine system. I should have gone to a doctor as soon as I felt symptoms of brain fog and mental fatigue. I highly encourage you to go on meds right away and not wait, as to prevent the onset of any type of additional disease. If your doctor doesn't think so, please switch to an endocrinologist, who knows best about what you need and your symptoms.

I don't recall cortisol being on the test so no. My gf and doctor are against the idea that it's biological and thinks it's some kind of depression /personality/ motivation /bipolar disorder. I still feel like it has something to do with my biology or my sleep. I am not depressed, I know what that is like. I'm UPSET legitimately at my weight gain and my inability to function. A chunk of my self esteem came from doing well at life.

I'm not sure how to get referred to an endocronologist - maybe I just call one? - but I'm going to a psychologist. I can always go to another doctor and ask them to refer me. If it wasn't for this forum I'd assume I was being crazy thinking it was biological and not in my head.

I don't know anything about synthroid so I'm not on it. I think you need a prescription for those kinds of things.

Edited by Esoparagon, 10 September 2013 - 03:27 AM.

[JBForrester]

Wait, did you even get your cortisol levels checked? Because with hypothyroidism comes the risk of having hashimotos, and those can lead to things like Addison's disease, which is marked by a low cortisol level. I have hypothyroidism (which funny enough I developed while travelling in Oz), and mild hashimoto's, and I just got my blood tested with results being low cortisol (but still in range). I'm now going to see if there is any onset of Addison's. http://www.yourhormo...ns_disease.aspx
Are you on synthroid yet? I waited a year before getting diagnosed, while having all the symptoms you explained having. I gained a bunch of weight, and decided to go on the Paleo Diet. The result of that decision was a complete and utter nightmare, and very, very stupid of me. Not only did it increase my mental fatigue, I became almost underweight as a result, which most likely wreaked havoc to my entire endocrine system. I should have gone to a doctor as soon as I felt symptoms of brain fog and mental fatigue. I highly encourage you to go on meds right away and not wait, as to prevent the onset of any type of additional disease. If your doctor doesn't think so, please switch to an endocrinologist, who knows best about what you need and your symptoms.

I don't recall cortisol being on the test so no. My gf and doctor are against the idea that it's biological and thinks it's some kind of depression /personality/ motivation /bipolar disorder. I still feel like it has something to do with my biology or my sleep. I am not depressed, I know what that is like. I'm UPSET legitimately at my weight gain and my inability to function. A chunk of my self esteem came from doing well at life.

I'm not sure how to get referred to an endocronologist - maybe I just call one? - but I'm going to a psychologist. I can always go to another doctor and ask them to refer me. If it wasn't for this forum I'd assume I was being crazy thinking it was biological and not in my head.

I don't know anything about synthroid so I'm not on it. I think you need a prescription for those kinds of things.

Yes, trust yourself and your body when it tells you something is wrong. I would highly suggest going to about 3 endocrinologists - yes, I know it can be expensive, but your health is worth it - and getting opinions on your tests from all of them. That way, you KNOW if all of them say it's just psychological then perhaps it's true (though I highly doubt they would), not to mention finding the best endo out of three. I'm not sure how the medical doctors are in Oz, but in the US, where I'm from originally, they do not dismiss patients as lawsuits are hefty, and often times if someone feels wrong, there is something wrong. In fact, there was a recent article in TIME magazine about how scientists are now correlating body illness with mental illness, and often times things like depression are due to some type of illness in the body, rather than being separate entities, i.e. mind vs. body. So it may be true that you are depressed at the moment, but that could correlate to your current thyroid state. My TSH was the same as yours when I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I had both weight gain and a huge inability to function, and my sleep was massively affected. You can certainly call endocrinologists to schedule an appointment. My suggestion would to contact a doctor at a major and important hospital that has a good reputation. I wouldn't necessarily go to a doctor that is rated "top" in any local scene, as many doctors (at least in the US) pay for spots in the "top" lists. Reputation through patients is a good way to go, and if you know of any family friends who work in the medical field, ask for a reference to a good endocrinologist. In fact, ask your psychologist for a good endo recommendation. If it's a good psychologist, chances are he'll recommend a good endo. Please don't wait!

[Pound]

Ok dude. I have gone through the same shot as you. When I finish the day I will tell you exactly what tests you need done, and what you can do now to help you. Get on ALCAR ASAP.

Acetyl l carnitine

I have gone through depression, and have gotten out of it. I have always had brain fog, but ALCAR is amazing for this

[renfr]

Wait, did you even get your cortisol levels checked? Because with hypothyroidism comes the risk of having hashimotos, and those can lead to things like Addison's disease, which is marked by a low cortisol level. I have hypothyroidism (which funny enough I developed while travelling in Oz), and mild hashimoto's, and I just got my blood tested with results being low cortisol (but still in range). I'm now going to see if there is any onset of Addison's. http://www.yourhormo...ns_disease.aspx
Are you on synthroid yet? I waited a year before getting diagnosed, while having all the symptoms you explained having. I gained a bunch of weight, and decided to go on the Paleo Diet. The result of that decision was a complete and utter nightmare, and very, very stupid of me. Not only did it increase my mental fatigue, I became almost underweight as a result, which most likely wreaked havoc to my entire endocrine system. I should have gone to a doctor as soon as I felt symptoms of brain fog and mental fatigue. I highly encourage you to go on meds right away and not wait, as to prevent the onset of any type of additional disease. If your doctor doesn't think so, please switch to an endocrinologist, who knows best about what you need and your symptoms.

If it was hashimoto's he would have had periods of transient hyperthyroidism, sure this can lead to addison's disease but low cortisol levels would ultimately lead to weight loss and not gain, addison patients usually gain weight after doing a prednisone/dexamethasone course.
Synthroid is the last option if you had your thyroid removed or you have a thyroid disease that is impossible to cure by natural means even though prescribing synthroid alone is a mistake as cytomel (T3) should also be prescribed to ensure that both of the thyroid hormones are adequatly produced.
I don't suggest him to take synthroid or any kind of synthetic/bovine thyroid hormone, he's a young man and probably doesn't have a serious thyroid disease (but he needs to make sure he doesn't, that's why I suggested him tests), once you start taking synthroid it's for the rest of your life, since withdrawal from it will give make him return to baseline, I don't think that's a good idea if he can cure his thyroid by eating more carbs (notably in the morning), eating more iodine and such.
If you don't have an incurable thyroid disease then never take synthroid/armour/cytomel/etc... as you don't need them, yes this will bring short term benefits but that would be stupid to depend on one medication until you die when you can cure that just by stimulating your metabolism back again.

Wait, did you even get your cortisol levels checked? Because with hypothyroidism comes the risk of having hashimotos, and those can lead to things like Addison's disease, which is marked by a low cortisol level. I have hypothyroidism (which funny enough I developed while travelling in Oz), and mild hashimoto's, and I just got my blood tested with results being low cortisol (but still in range). I'm now going to see if there is any onset of Addison's. http://www.yourhormo...ns_disease.aspx
Are you on synthroid yet? I waited a year before getting diagnosed, while having all the symptoms you explained having. I gained a bunch of weight, and decided to go on the Paleo Diet. The result of that decision was a complete and utter nightmare, and very, very stupid of me. Not only did it increase my mental fatigue, I became almost underweight as a result, which most likely wreaked havoc to my entire endocrine system. I should have gone to a doctor as soon as I felt symptoms of brain fog and mental fatigue. I highly encourage you to go on meds right away and not wait, as to prevent the onset of any type of additional disease. If your doctor doesn't think so, please switch to an endocrinologist, who knows best about what you need and your symptoms.

I don't recall cortisol being on the test so no. My gf and doctor are against the idea that it's biological and thinks it's some kind of depression /personality/ motivation /bipolar disorder. I still feel like it has something to do with my biology or my sleep. I am not depressed, I know what that is like. I'm UPSET legitimately at my weight gain and my inability to function. A chunk of my self esteem came from doing well at life.

I'm not sure how to get referred to an endocronologist - maybe I just call one? - but I'm going to a psychologist. I can always go to another doctor and ask them to refer me. If it wasn't for this forum I'd assume I was being crazy thinking it was biological and not in my head.

I don't know anything about synthroid so I'm not on it. I think you need a prescription for those kinds of things.

That it is biological, it's obvious since it's a disorder in your system, but it has nothing to do with your personality or anything (however remind that depression does increase cortisol dramatically).
You must get tested (at least that'd help tremendously in diagnosing your situation), if your doctor is a jerk and tells you everything is alright then go to another one, don't let the man get you down.
A psychologist won't do anything, maybe prescribe you a SSRI or drugs that might at best bring you short term benefits but on long term make you dependent.
If that's the right track I'm on right now then your problem is cortisol (+ hypothyroidism probably induced by high cortisol), unless you have a tumor that causes excess cortisol production (which is doubtful) then you can cure this in a few steps.

Anyway don't go on synthroid unless your endocrionologist proves you that you have a severe thyroid disease, plus synthroid is really a worthless drug and only works on some patients, it's difficult to adjust and can even cause hyperthyroidism, you don't want to go to the other extreme as well...
I guess your doctor is waiting for you to have cushing syndrome (extreme production of cortisol), as long as you're in between but in the upper range of cortisol levels then he considers it's fine even if it makes you feel shitty.

Edited by renfr, 10 September 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[Esoparagon]

Ok dude. I have gone through the same shot as you. When I finish the day I will tell you exactly what tests you need done, and what you can do now to help you. Get on ALCAR ASAP.

Acetyl l carnitine

I have gone through depression, and have gotten out of it. I have always had brain fog, but ALCAR is amazing for this

Thank you! I have heard of ALCAR but have never tried it.

[Esoparagon]

Wait, did you even get your cortisol levels checked? Because with hypothyroidism comes the risk of having hashimotos, and those can lead to things like Addison's disease, which is marked by a low cortisol level. I have hypothyroidism (which funny enough I developed while travelling in Oz), and mild hashimoto's, and I just got my blood tested with results being low cortisol (but still in range). I'm now going to see if there is any onset of Addison's. http://www.yourhormo...ns_disease.aspx
Are you on synthroid yet? I waited a year before getting diagnosed, while having all the symptoms you explained having. I gained a bunch of weight, and decided to go on the Paleo Diet. The result of that decision was a complete and utter nightmare, and very, very stupid of me. Not only did it increase my mental fatigue, I became almost underweight as a result, which most likely wreaked havoc to my entire endocrine system. I should have gone to a doctor as soon as I felt symptoms of brain fog and mental fatigue. I highly encourage you to go on meds right away and not wait, as to prevent the onset of any type of additional disease. If your doctor doesn't think so, please switch to an endocrinologist, who knows best about what you need and your symptoms.

If it was hashimoto's he would have had periods of transient hyperthyroidism, sure this can lead to addison's disease but low cortisol levels would ultimately lead to weight loss and not gain, addison patients usually gain weight after doing a prednisone/dexamethasone course.
Synthroid is the last option if you had your thyroid removed or you have a thyroid disease that is impossible to cure by natural means even though prescribing synthroid alone is a mistake as cytomel (T3) should also be prescribed to ensure that both of the thyroid hormones are adequatly produced.
I don't suggest him to take synthroid or any kind of synthetic/bovine thyroid hormone, he's a young man and probably doesn't have a serious thyroid disease (but he needs to make sure he doesn't, that's why I suggested him tests), once you start taking synthroid it's for the rest of your life, since withdrawal from it will give make him return to baseline, I don't think that's a good idea if he can cure his thyroid by eating more carbs (notably in the morning), eating more iodine and such.
If you don't have an incurable thyroid disease then never take synthroid/armour/cytomel/etc... as you don't need them, yes this will bring short term benefits but that would be stupid to depend on one medication until you die when you can cure that just by stimulating your metabolism back again.

Wait, did you even get your cortisol levels checked? Because with hypothyroidism comes the risk of having hashimotos, and those can lead to things like Addison's disease, which is marked by a low cortisol level. I have hypothyroidism (which funny enough I developed while travelling in Oz), and mild hashimoto's, and I just got my blood tested with results being low cortisol (but still in range). I'm now going to see if there is any onset of Addison's. http://www.yourhormo...ns_disease.aspx
Are you on synthroid yet? I waited a year before getting diagnosed, while having all the symptoms you explained having. I gained a bunch of weight, and decided to go on the Paleo Diet. The result of that decision was a complete and utter nightmare, and very, very stupid of me. Not only did it increase my mental fatigue, I became almost underweight as a result, which most likely wreaked havoc to my entire endocrine system. I should have gone to a doctor as soon as I felt symptoms of brain fog and mental fatigue. I highly encourage you to go on meds right away and not wait, as to prevent the onset of any type of additional disease. If your doctor doesn't think so, please switch to an endocrinologist, who knows best about what you need and your symptoms.

I don't recall cortisol being on the test so no. My gf and doctor are against the idea that it's biological and thinks it's some kind of depression /personality/ motivation /bipolar disorder. I still feel like it has something to do with my biology or my sleep. I am not depressed, I know what that is like. I'm UPSET legitimately at my weight gain and my inability to function. A chunk of my self esteem came from doing well at life.

I'm not sure how to get referred to an endocronologist - maybe I just call one? - but I'm going to a psychologist. I can always go to another doctor and ask them to refer me. If it wasn't for this forum I'd assume I was being crazy thinking it was biological and not in my head.

I don't know anything about synthroid so I'm not on it. I think you need a prescription for those kinds of things.

That it is biological, it's obvious since it's a disorder in your system, but it has nothing to do with your personality or anything (however remind that depression does increase cortisol dramatically).
You must get tested (at least that'd help tremendously in diagnosing your situation), if your doctor is a jerk and tells you everything is alright then go to another one, don't let the man get you down.
A psychologist won't do anything, maybe prescribe you a SSRI or drugs that might at best bring you short term benefits but on long term make you dependent.
If that's the right track I'm on right now then your problem is cortisol (+ hypothyroidism probably induced by high cortisol), unless you have a tumor that causes excess cortisol production (which is doubtful) then you can cure this in a few steps.

Anyway don't go on synthroid unless your endocrionologist proves you that you have a severe thyroid disease, plus synthroid is really a worthless drug and only works on some patients, it's difficult to adjust and can even cause hyperthyroidism, you don't want to go to the other extreme as well...
I guess your doctor is waiting for you to have cushing syndrome (extreme production of cortisol), as long as you're in between but in the upper range of cortisol levels then he considers it's fine even if it makes you feel shitty.

I can't explain how appreciative I am to everyone who takes time to try to help me out. It's amazing. I won't go on synthroid. I ate some rice this morning but it worried me so I didn't finish the lot.
I know a doctor who is in the area I used to live in which is now a bit far away, but he was a really good doctor and seemed to really care. He probably also has prior blood test on file. I can ask him to refer me to an endocrinologist.

[Esoparagon]

Another couple of things that may or may not be relevant is that it appears hair on my leg has become thin or fallen out. My face is usually quite clear, but the skin seems a bit blemished and weird lately.

[JBForrester]

"If it was hashimoto's he would have had periods of transient hyperthyroidism, sure this can lead to addison's disease but low cortisol levels would ultimately lead to weight loss and not gain, addison patients usually gain weight after doing a prednisone/dexamethasone course.
Synthroid is the last option if you had your thyroid removed or you have a thyroid disease that is impossible to cure by natural means even though prescribing synthroid alone is a mistake as cytomel (T3) should also be prescribed to ensure that both of the thyroid hormones are adequatly produced.
I don't suggest him to take synthroid or any kind of synthetic/bovine thyroid hormone, he's a young man and probably doesn't have a serious thyroid disease (but he needs to make sure he doesn't, that's why I suggested him tests), once you start taking synthroid it's for the rest of your life, since withdrawal from it will give make him return to baseline, I don't think that's a good idea if he can cure his thyroid by eating more carbs (notably in the morning), eating more iodine and such.
If you don't have an incurable thyroid disease then never take synthroid/armour/cytomel/etc... as you don't need them, yes this will bring short term benefits but that would be stupid to depend on one medication until you die when you can cure that just by stimulating your metabolism back again."

@Renfr: Please give sources about curing thyroid by eating more carbs or by other means. Not meaning to be rude but it sounds a bit like homeopathy talk to me. I will say that neither of us, or anybody on this forum are doctors, and thus we cannot give him truly sound advice for his condition. Therefore, I agree that he needs to talk to a few physicians before he can know for sure. However, I think without proper scientific proof, stimulating the thyroid naturally without medication and without seeing a doctor can be dangerous.

"Anyway don't go on synthroid unless your endocrionologist proves you that you have a severe thyroid disease, plus synthroid is really a worthless drug and only works on some patients, it's difficult to adjust and can even cause hyperthyroidism, you don't want to go to the other extreme as well..."

And this ^ "Synthroid is a worthless drug" and "..don't go on synthroid unless your endo proves that you have severe thyroid disease"? Where are your sources behind your conclusions?

@Esoparagon - 1) Hair loss/thinning is a symptom of hypothyroidism, or anemia. But considering your other symptoms I'd bet it'd be your thyroid. 2) I wouldn't refuse to go on synthroid simply because someone says you shouldn't. It has been amazing for me, empirically speaking. But do as you will. Just don't kick yourself later if anything major happens as a result of your hesitation. Here is an article from webmd that describes what happens if left untreated: http://www.webmd.com...sm-what-happens

[JBForrester]

Esoparagon - here is another list of untreated hypothyroidism complications from the Mayo Clinic, which is a highly-reputable medical practice and research group in the States:
http://www.mayoclini...N=complications

[Luminosity]

Glad we can help you. I'm happy to hear you are going to a psychologist. That could help a lot.

In the US you have to be referred to an endocrinologist by another doctor. Many people have to wait for their appointment. The specialists who deal with kidneys are nephrologists. A nephrologist may be unable to diagnose or treat the early stages of kidney failure. I still feel Chinese Medicine is superior to Western medicine when dealing with kidney or thyroid problems. In the US there is information on acupuncturists on Yelp.

You might have an eating disorder. There is an emerging disorder called orthorexia in which the patient becomes overly concerned with eating certain things and not eating certain things. Not all therapists have heard of it. You could also have anorexia. You could also have body dysmorphic disorder, in which you think you look differently than you do, or become overly concerned with not being physically perfect. I would bring up your concerns relating to eating and your weight with your psychologist.

If the body hair thing is physically real, then that is another sign something is physically wrong. Again, an acunpunturist can help diagnose any physical issues you have. Does your girlfriend agree about the body hair and the skin issues?

[Esoparagon]

Glad we can help you. I'm happy to hear you are going to a psychologist. That could help a lot.

In the US you have to be referred to an endocrinologist by another doctor. Many people have to wait for their appointment. The specialists who deal with kidneys are nephrologists. A nephrologist may be unable to diagnose or treat the early stages of kidney failure. I still feel Chinese Medicine is superior to Western medicine when dealing with kidney or thyroid problems. In the US there is information on acupuncturists on Yelp.

You might have an eating disorder. There is an emerging disorder called orthorexia in which the patient becomes overly concerned with eating certain things and not eating certain things. Not all therapists have heard of it. You could also have anorexia. You could also have body dysmorphic disorder, in which you think you look differently than you do, or become overly concerned with not being physically perfect. I would bring up your concerns relating to eating and your weight with your psychologist.

If the body hair thing is physically real, then that is another sign something is physically wrong. Again, an acunpunturist can help diagnose any physical issues you have. Does your girlfriend agree about the body hair and the skin issues?

I'm horrible again today, but I did sleep for 11 hours and that may be why. I woke up to the alarm after 8.5 hours sleep but I was too exhausted to get up and fell back to sleep. I slept from 10pm to 9am. My sleep app says 59% deep sleep for the first 8.5 hours. The graph does not look restful. After the extra sleep I felt even worse.

Well my girlfriend tells me I'm not fat. I have objective proof that my weight has gone up from 92kg to 101.5kg, but she retorts that since I started lifting weights regularly I have gotten much bigger legs and I'm much bigger muscle-wise now. I don't really see it. I can't imagine anyone thinking I'm not fat. Also my waist is bigger in centimeters. My face appears fatter too.

In terms of carbohydrate restriction, I have read and watched a lot on it which convinced me carbohydrates need to be reduced to lose weight. I may be wrong. Yes, I want to be thin, but I think that's perfectly normal considering the huge benefits.

It was actually my girlfriend who noticed and pointed the thinning hair on my leg out to me. I had not noticed it. She says that sometimes hair thins out at this time of year - that it's a seasonal thing.

I'm very skeptical of Chinese medicine though I don't discount it has thousands of years of empircal knowledge built up. I am open to any help I can get though. I'm desperate. My mind is mush and I'm finding it hard to keep up with my work. If I cannot cure this then my life is headed to disaster.

I had a big breakfast again this morning. It's actually quite nice to do.

Edited by Esoparagon, 12 September 2013 - 05:21 AM.

[Luminosity]

Glad you're eating. Good work. You seem smart. You are learning.

Your girlfriend may be right about your weight. It adds up with what I was thinking. People with eating disorders may think they are fat when they are not, or be too concerned with a little added weight and go to unhealthy lengths to get rid of it. They can be perfectionists. They can think that the whole world revolves around removing some weight which isn't even always really there.

I understand you are skeptical of Chinese medicine. You can't really know how it works until you try it. Maybe you will.

I'm encouraged that you have made the psychologist appointment. You are also reaching out for help in seeking medical advice. Although I'm not personally a fan of Western medicine for your concerns, you are moving forward and realizing you need help and that's a good sign.

In case self-expression helps you, I'm posting a link to my self-expression threads.

http://www.longecity...ry-447-self-expression-threads/


If this link won't work, you can go to this forum and look for threads by me marked self-expression:
http://www.longecity...life-extension/

Edited by Luminosity, 12 September 2013 - 06:05 AM.