183 replies to this topic

[Esoparagon]

Theres no such thing as brain fog you are depressed, dissociated, not enough blood sugar etc etc.
It was really a stupid thing to coin this term.

I know this is not a technical term, but this term decribes the way it feels to me. It is a widely used term and I didn't coin it myself. It is not a stupid thing to describe your symptoms. My symptoms are not "I feel depressed." Saying that would be misleading. That is not how I feel at all. If I was depressed wouldn't I feel sad or upset? I have had depression symptoms before. This is quite different. The reason I thought it wasn't depression and use a different term is that I had depression symptoms and this is different. I'm not sad. I'm not upset about anything except the brain fog itself and the effects it is having on my life. This is completely rational. If bad things happen to you, they get you down. I am optimistic and want to get on with my life. Yes, these mental fatigue problems are dragging me down. But that is a secondary effect of the primary problem which is the crazy mental fatigue/short term memory problems.

I believe my blood sugar is absolutely fine. I have had a blood test and it was normal.

Dissociation? That is a good way to put how I sometimes feel walking around campus. I feel out of it sometimes. If you know how I can fix that. I am all ears. Really.

[Esoparagon]

Any updates Esoparagon? Hope you're doing well.

I still feel bad. Thank you for checking on me. I slept through an appointment, but I'm going to one tomorrow. I'll get the sleep study done.

All aspects of my life are deteriating due to having no time (everything take so long now/sleeping for ages) and little ability concentrate.

Edited by Esoparagon, 18 October 2013 - 03:30 AM.

[Luminosity]

Some of the posts here are too argumentative. There is such a thing as brain fog, and there's no basis for stating that the OP has this and not that which such crispness. The degree of certainty at Longecity can be inverse to the degree of accuracy. The more you know about the human body the less you feel you can diagnose a stranger over the internet.

Esparagon,

I'm sorry things are going that way. I'm guessing your girlfriend does or did care about you. How are things going with the psychologist? How often do you see her and for how long? Do you have talk therapy? Are you medicated and with what? Does she know you feel this way?

Edited by Luminosity, 18 October 2013 - 03:31 AM.

[JBForrester]

Any updates Esoparagon? Hope you're doing well.

I still feel bad. Thank you for checking on me. I slept through an appointment, but I'm going to one tomorrow. I'll get the sleep study done.

All aspects of my life are deteriating due to having no time (everything take so long now/sleeping for ages) and little ability concentrate.

Have you spoken to your parents? Also, I can't ask enough but have you gone to endocrinologist? Is that the one you're going to tomorrow? I just really would like to emphasize the importance of figuring this out, primarily and especially through an endo, as I wish I had done that earlier and was able to go back to normal life quicker. Instead, I waited one year while travelling all by myself in a foreign country. I still have nightmares about it, possibly PTSD. I wouldn't want you to go through the same for such a long period of time.

Again, as stated on Webmd:

http://www.webmd.com...sm-what-happens

"If untreated, hypothyroidism may lead to:
...
Complications, such as:

• Increased levels of cholesterol and triglycerides (increasing the risk of coronary artery disease and stroke).
• Fluid around the heart (pericardial effusion).
• Sleep apnea, which causes you to stop breathing for 10 seconds or longer while sleeping.
• Forgetfulness and dementia."

As quoted from a NY Times article:

http://health.nytime...plications.html
Effects of Hypothyroidism and Subclinical Hypothyroidism on the Mind

"Depression. Depression is common in hypothyroidism and can be severe. Hypothyroidism should be considered as a possible cause of any chronic depression, particularly in older women.
Mental and Behavioral Impairment. Untreated hypothyroidism can, over time, cause mental and behavioral impairment and, eventually, even dementia. Whether treatment can completely reverse problems in memory and concentration is uncertain, although many doctors believe that only mental impairment in hypothyroidism that occurs at birth is permanent."

I can't diagnose you but you want to get it checked out asap just in case it is hypothyroidism (which, from what I hear, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if it is). I'm pretty sure I've had hypothyroidism for a very long time before the major symptoms kicked in, and I'm curious if it could be the same for you. Has it always been easy to keep off weight before your brain fog or have you always had a few extra pounds that you couldn't seem to get off, though thought nothing of it? And were you always very sharp before this brain fog? I'm sharper than I've ever been after going on synthroid, which is actually a little sad because of the years I wasted when I could have been diagnosed.

[Esoparagon]

WebMD thinks it could be sleep apnea.

Edited by Esoparagon, 18 October 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[Esoparagon]

I will ask the doctor tomorrow about seeing an endocronologist. If he turns me down or says it's not worth it or warranted then I'll go about finding one myself. I'm not sure how it works. I'll find some and call them, I guess. I think you need a referal. I can always go to my old doctor. He seems to actually care.
Tomorrow I'm just getting the doctor to get me a referal to do a sleep study.

I don't have contact with any family because I was in foster care so never developed any familial ties. And I don't like my family. From what I've seen they are all crappy people except one of my half brothers. I have spoken to my half brother who, by some fluke, has been/had been having ridiculous symptoms of brain fog, but much worse than mine. My brother got lots of tests and sent me the following:

"I've got degenerative disc disease, spondylosis and osteo arthritis in all areas of the spine. I didn't know until the cognitive fog. Perhaps you should get a neck mri."

I sure as hell hope that's not my problem. He also sent me: (edited it a bit)

http://en.m.wikipedi...ri_malformation
I have most of these and mum and [your half sister] do too. I thought having a different dad you might not.

We share the same mum different dads.

I sure as hell hope it's not anything like that either. "Sleep Apnea" is one of the sypmtoms.

I do think it could be a thyroid problem because of the number I got on the test which is not hypo here but is in other countries. Everyone says I'm being overreactive about it and should just listen to the doctor.

Edited by Esoparagon, 18 October 2013 - 07:13 AM.

[machete234]

It is a widely used term and I didn't coin it myself. It is not a stupid thing to describe your symptoms. My symptoms are not "I feel depressed." Saying that would be misleading. That is not how I feel at all. If I was depressed wouldn't I feel sad or upset?

No, not being able to get out of bed or feeling tired can be symptoms of depression.You probably dont feel 100% percent able to think straight or you are too lethargic to do so.
Im just saying you will never know what it is when you call it brain fog.

I have brain fog in the morning and it magically disappears when I drink 3 cups of coffee, could my brain fog actually be my caffeine addiction?
I think so.

The stupid people are the ones who coined this term, not you btw.

Dissociation? That is a good way to put how I sometimes feel walking around campus. I feel out of it sometimes. If you know how I can fix that. I am all ears. Really.

Being dissociated all the time would be a serious disorder and would definatly mess with your life.Daydreaming is not dissociation as feeling sad is not depression.

There is such a thing as brain fog, and there's no basis for stating that the OP has this and not that which such crispness.

Its like saying "This morning I made poo poo on the toilet" -Congratulations.
There is no such thing as brain fog, and I dont claim I know what he has I gave some examples.
Its not a precise term and wont help you find out what is your problem.

Edited by machete234, 18 October 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[celebes]

Eso, I'm very sorry to read you're still suffering needlessly after all this time.

Everyone, including my endos, told me I was overreacting when I was crippled with hypo too. They were old men and - can you guess? - still using the old cutoffs.

There is no such thing as being hypo in one place and not hypo in another. There is just outdated information.

When the entire rest of the developed world is moving in one direction, who do you think is going to be right?

Any doctor that has told you that you don't need thyroid is dead WRONG. It does not get any simpler than that. Anyone who tells you are overreacting is just trying to get out of having sympathy for you.

Maybe you need psychotherapy too, maybe you need to meditate, maybe you need to convert to Islam. You will only be able to find out what else there is going on after this is sorted out.

At this stage, you need to just take some T3/T4. There are no ill effects that will develop during a short trial. Even just a week. You will feel like yourself again. There is no doubt in my mind.

Are there any online pharmacies you're able to order from? I will post you some myself if I have to.

Again, I'm saying this as a doctor who has been through the exact situation you are in right now. For the love of God, profit from that.

Edited by celebes, 18 October 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[Esoparagon]

Has it always been easy to keep off weight before your brain fog or have you always had a few extra pounds that you couldn't seem to get off, though thought nothing of it? And were you always very sharp before this brain fog? I'm sharper than I've ever been after going on synthroid, which is actually a little sad because of the years I wasted when I could have been diagnosed.

I have always had a problem with my weight since I was a kid. I've always been the fat kid. I consider myself 'naturally fat'. I fluctuated from obese (97th percentile for my age and height) to within normal range twice until the age of 18. As of now, I'm much better than I've been in the past 5 years but I consider it neccessary to lose 15kg. I have put on muscle which probably helps. I've never been really lean. I strongly wish I could be.

I should mention I have felt like this before in my life but only on days when I had overslept (11+ hours sleep) and usually only for a few hours after waking. It's a bit like morning mental fog when you just wake up and are a zombie (I've always been like this but it would go away in 1 hour max) but all day and really bad.

Eso, I'm very sorry to read you're still suffering needlessly after all this time.

Everyone, including my endos, told me I was overreacting when I was crippled with hypo too. They were old men and - can you guess? - still using the old cutoffs.

There is no such thing as being hypo in one place and not hypo in another. There is just outdated information.

When the entire rest of the developed world is moving in one direction, who do you think is going to be right?

Any doctor that has told you that you don't need thyroid is dead WRONG. It does not get any simpler than that. Anyone who tells you are overreacting is just trying to get out of having sympathy for you.

Maybe you need psychotherapy too, maybe you need to meditate, maybe you need to convert to Islam. You will only be able to find out what else there is going on after this is sorted out.

At this stage, you need to just take some T3/T4. There are no ill effects that will develop during a short trial. Even just a week. You will feel like yourself again. There is no doubt in my mind.

Are there any online pharmacies you're able to order from? I will post you some myself if I have to.

Again, I'm saying this as a doctor who has been through the exact situation you are in right now. For the love of God, profit from that.

Thank you for caring about an internet stranger I asked the doctor today about seeing an endocronologist. You should have seen the blank expression on his face. I think he was trying to hold in his surprise that I would even ask for such a crazy thing when OBVIOUSLY I'm fine according to the blood test and must just have 'tiredness'. He did however give me a refera to get a sleep study done. I should be able to get that done soon and cross it off the list.

I will post you some myself if I have to.

Haha, smile on my face.

Edited by Esoparagon, 19 October 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[Esoparagon]

I measured my temperature under my tongue:

36.2 C, or 97.16 F

[Wu Hang]

Are you sure you don't have anything OCD related? It seems that your main problem is to stress over little incidents which wouldn't be a big deal if it is happened to really healthy people. What if the brain fog is not the result of deficiency but a result of a excessive intake? Just some food for thought.

By the way, I just tried cron meter and it seems that I have potassium deficiency too, but I don't feel like having brain fogs all day long despite having to study in a very busy schedule.

Can you please explain which things I am over reacting about? I am willing to consider your proposal, but I want to retort. I have explained that the brain came on by itself. I ignored it thinking it'd end, then it got worse and worse. I have taken up the policy of trying everything and anything that may even be remotely likely to fix it. Everything I'm doing is to fix this problem I have. Any possible reason I can think of I'm putting into action. I think that is completely logical since it won't go away by itself. I'm just taking action. Secondly, yes my state of mind has deteriated SINCE the brain fog. I was quite happily chugging along in life before this brain fog came on. In fact, compared to much of my life, I was doing very well mentally speaking. If feeling like utter death, like your mind has been smashed against a wall repeatedly, having the short term memory of a fish, being constantly mentally fatigued, unable to process information, unable to perform, unable to keep up with your work and feeling generally out of it all day isn't enough to get you down, I don't know what is.

The suggestion I had back then is due to my talk to a professor who had OCD all along. His story confirms me that a simple change can ruin your brain function completely, which is why I don't like the idea to use various medication at the same time.

I completely understand your condition in a way I have felt almost the same way 2 years ago. Fixing it could be difficult as not only everybody is different, our living environment are different as well, sometimes the intoxication might be a result of your environment (not saying that it's bad, but it might have altered your brain if you lived in the crowded urban region)

I hope you can go well soon and I have a feeling that it might be something more fundamental that has been altered and your brain was trying to do everything to protect you from the dangers

[Luminosity]

machete, ever think of putting a breathalyzer on your computer?

[lourdaud]

I measured my temperature under my tongue:

36.2 C, or 97.16 F

Your TSH was tested at over 3 (right?) and your body temp is at 36.2 C.. Considering your symptoms, hypothyroidism is probably what's causing your problems.
Get on a high-carb diet and throw out all PUFA's I'd say. You may want to consider a high-sugar diet and/or thyroid medication as well.

[Esoparagon]

I measured my temperature under my tongue:

36.2 C, or 97.16 F

Your TSH was tested at over 3 (right?) and your body temp is at 36.2 C.. Considering your symptoms, hypothyroidism is probably what's causing your problems.
Get on a high-carb diet and throw out all PUFA's I'd say. You may want to consider a high-sugar diet and/or thyroid medication as well.

Yes, it was 3.15. The doctor didn't take my temperature. I'm trying to lose weight so I'm worried about carbohydrates, but I have been seriously considering it. I am pretty clear of PUFAs already. Thanks

What kind of carbohydrates would you suggest? Lots of fruits, potato and rice?

[lourdaud]

I measured my temperature under my tongue:

36.2 C, or 97.16 F

Your TSH was tested at over 3 (right?) and your body temp is at 36.2 C.. Considering your symptoms, hypothyroidism is probably what's causing your problems.
Get on a high-carb diet and throw out all PUFA's I'd say. You may want to consider a high-sugar diet and/or thyroid medication as well.

Yes, it was 3.15. The doctor didn't take my temperature. I'm trying to lose weight so I'm worried about carbohydrates, but I have been seriously considering it. I am pretty clear of PUFAs already. Thanks

If you're hypothyroid, you probably won't gain weight from carbs.

What kind of carbohydrates would you suggest? Lots of fruits, potato and rice?

Yes!

[Olon]

Interestingly excessive AMPA receptor stimulation causes brain swelling, and blocking AMPA receptors can prevent it. http://www.ncbi.nlm....ain oedema ampa so your Arnold Chiari precondition and the nootropics may have been a bad combination. A quick search gave the information that green tea catechins http://www.ncbi.nlm....edema green tea and nobiletin http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23644141 are effective against brain swelling. Quercetin also, but may worsen your memory deficit.

[JBForrester]

I measured my temperature under my tongue:

36.2 C, or 97.16 F

Your TSH was tested at over 3 (right?) and your body temp is at 36.2 C.. Considering your symptoms, hypothyroidism is probably what's causing your problems.
Get on a high-carb diet and throw out all PUFA's I'd say. You may want to consider a high-sugar diet and/or thyroid medication as well.

Wow! So high-carb diets are good for the thyroid? That completely makes sense. Around the same time I started showing severe symptoms of hypothyroidism - I mean on the verge of pseudo-dementia - I was on an extremely low carb diet. I mean - so low that it was almost me eating meats and just a tiny bit of raw veggies (including the thyroid-dreaded cruciferous ones) and fruits. As I've mentioned, I was backpacking at the time. It was so bad that I would forget to book accomodation in time before my booked hostel time was up - meaning almost every week I would have to re-pack everything I had and go to a different hostel (and usually grimy because all the good hostels were booked) across the other end of the city. It might not sound bad to somebody with energy but when you have brain fog, fatigue, and the stress and anxiety that are by-products of your weird state of having no energy, then it feels like what I would imagine trekking across Russia barefoot would be like. Everything is exaggerated to the worst degree.

Sorry, going on a tangent.

But thank you for posting that lourdaud. I googled it and I finally understand a piece to my puzzle three years ago!

@ Esoparagon, I do wonder if you've had hypothyroidism for a long time. I don't know what triggered mine - be it going on an extremely low carb diet, or the fact that I go an un-asked-for procedure that melted part of my estrogen-dominant fat - but if you are doing anything differently in your diet or whatever else, I would be wary. Are you or have you been on a low carb diet? If so, was it close to the time you developed this weird brain fog? I couldn't agree more with loredaud - it'd be wise to stay on a high-carb diet.

[Godof Smallthings]

I'm trying to lose weight so I'm worried about carbohydrates, but I have been seriously considering it.

Consider this: first of all, don't be sure that adding carbs will put on that much more weight. Even if it does initially, but also clears your brain fog, then you will have the energy to get on with your life, including exercising enough to reduce your weight again.

And just because you start eating carbs does not mean you have to overeat. Just eat sensible portions and keep exercising.

[Esoparagon]

I measured my temperature under my tongue:

36.2 C, or 97.16 F

Your TSH was tested at over 3 (right?) and your body temp is at 36.2 C.. Considering your symptoms, hypothyroidism is probably what's causing your problems.
Get on a high-carb diet and throw out all PUFA's I'd say. You may want to consider a high-sugar diet and/or thyroid medication as well.

Wow! So high-carb diets are good for the thyroid? That completely makes sense. Around the same time I started showing severe symptoms of hypothyroidism - I mean on the verge of pseudo-dementia - I was on an extremely low carb diet. I mean - so low that it was almost me eating meats and just a tiny bit of raw veggies (including the thyroid-dreaded cruciferous ones) and fruits. As I've mentioned, I was backpacking at the time. It was so bad that I would forget to book accomodation in time before my booked hostel time was up - meaning almost every week I would have to re-pack everything I had and go to a different hostel (and usually grimy because all the good hostels were booked) across the other end of the city. It might not sound bad to somebody with energy but when you have brain fog, fatigue, and the stress and anxiety that are by-products of your weird state of having no energy, then it feels like what I would imagine trekking across Russia barefoot would be like. Everything is exaggerated to the worst degree.

Sorry, going on a tangent.

But thank you for posting that lourdaud. I googled it and I finally understand a piece to my puzzle three years ago!

@ Esoparagon, I do wonder if you've had hypothyroidism for a long time. I don't know what triggered mine - be it going on an extremely low carb diet, or the fact that I go an un-asked-for procedure that melted part of my estrogen-dominant fat - but if you are doing anything differently in your diet or whatever else, I would be wary. Are you or have you been on a low carb diet? If so, was it close to the time you developed this weird brain fog? I couldn't agree more with loredaud - it'd be wise to stay on a high-carb diet.

I've been low carb/keto for a couple years now with slip ups here and there.

[Esoparagon]

I'm trying to lose weight so I'm worried about carbohydrates, but I have been seriously considering it.

Consider this: first of all, don't be sure that adding carbs will put on that much more weight. Even if it does initially, but also clears your brain fog, then you will have the energy to get on with your life, including exercising enough to reduce your weight again.

And just because you start eating carbs does not mean you have to overeat. Just eat sensible portions and keep exercising.

I fear insulin! lol. I suspect eating carbs will make me hungry and think about food all the time. Only one way to know though. I am desperate and am willing to give it a try if I can't think of anything else.

[lourdaud]

I measured my temperature under my tongue:

36.2 C, or 97.16 F

Your TSH was tested at over 3 (right?) and your body temp is at 36.2 C.. Considering your symptoms, hypothyroidism is probably what's causing your problems.
Get on a high-carb diet and throw out all PUFA's I'd say. You may want to consider a high-sugar diet and/or thyroid medication as well.

Wow! So high-carb diets are good for the thyroid? That completely makes sense. Around the same time I started showing severe symptoms of hypothyroidism - I mean on the verge of pseudo-dementia - I was on an extremely low carb diet. I mean - so low that it was almost me eating meats and just a tiny bit of raw veggies (including the thyroid-dreaded cruciferous ones) and fruits. As I've mentioned, I was backpacking at the time. It was so bad that I would forget to book accomodation in time before my booked hostel time was up - meaning almost every week I would have to re-pack everything I had and go to a different hostel (and usually grimy because all the good hostels were booked) across the other end of the city. It might not sound bad to somebody with energy but when you have brain fog, fatigue, and the stress and anxiety that are by-products of your weird state of having no energy, then it feels like what I would imagine trekking across Russia barefoot would be like. Everything is exaggerated to the worst degree.

Sorry, going on a tangent.

But thank you for posting that lourdaud. I googled it and I finally understand a piece to my puzzle three years ago!

@ Esoparagon, I do wonder if you've had hypothyroidism for a long time. I don't know what triggered mine - be it going on an extremely low carb diet, or the fact that I go an un-asked-for procedure that melted part of my estrogen-dominant fat - but if you are doing anything differently in your diet or whatever else, I would be wary. Are you or have you been on a low carb diet? If so, was it close to the time you developed this weird brain fog? I couldn't agree more with loredaud - it'd be wise to stay on a high-carb diet.

Glad you found it helpful!
Lol but what a coincidence, same here, my hypothyroid symptoms got way worse when getting on a low-carb diet while backpacking as well.. All the time I thought it was CFS from some bug/gut bacteria.. Can't believe I sticked to those stressing low-carb/paleo diets for years.

IME a low-carb diet can be tricky - you get really energized by the increase in cortisol and catecholamines, but over time it'll take its toll on your metabolism, hormonal balance etc.

Now I'm doing basically the opposite - I've been following some of Ray Peat's ideas on diet, i.e eating to reduce stress levels and raise metabolic rate. This has really helped me turn my health around. I can really recommend you look into it if you're hypothyroid.

[Luminosity]

Esparagon,

How are things going with the psychologist? How often do you see her and for how long? Do you have talk therapy? Are you medicated and with what? Does she know you feel this way? [So desperate and unhappy]

I strongly feel you need to gently go back to eating a normal amount of carbs. . .

I headed a support group for people with certain chronic illness for ten years. I can tell you that thyroid problems are underdiagnosed. The test often fails to show that people have thyroid problems even if they do. These people sometimes feel better when they get the right thyroid medications, but this can be trickier than it looks. Personally I would favor going to an acupuncturist for this problem. There is a theory that taking medications, even the right ones makes, your thyroid lazy. Chinese medicine makes your own organs function properly.

. . . See if you can get weekly sessions with a talk therapist.

In the US you have to be referred to an endocrinologist by another doctor. Many people have to wait for their appointment. The specialists who deal with kidneys are nephrologists. A nephrologist may be unable to diagnose or treat the early stages of kidney failure. I still feel Chinese Medicine is superior to Western medicine when dealing with kidney or thyroid problems. In the US there is information on acupuncturists on Yelp.

You might have an eating disorder. There is an emerging disorder called orthorexia in which the patient becomes overly concerned with eating certain things and not eating certain things. Not all therapists have heard of it. You could also have anorexia. You could also have body dysmorphic disorder, in which you think you look differently than you do, or become overly concerned with not being physically perfect. I would bring up your concerns relating to eating and your weight with your psychologist.

The answers are all here, Esparagon. There seems to be some kind of emotional/mental issue that is preventing the solutions from being applied.

Before they had modern thyroid tests, the test was the symptoms and a "basal temperature" test, I think. I think that meant they told the patient to take their temperature under their arm first thing in the morning for several days. I believe that when the thyroid problem was present, the temperature was low, like yours, Esparagon. I'd take this test and write down the temps for any docs. Contact the thyroid support group in your area and find out which doctor they like best. If there's no thyroid group, try chronic fatigue. If you want to break out of this, you have to take certain actions now.

Edited by Luminosity, 22 October 2013 - 01:28 AM.

[JBForrester]

Glad you found it helpful!
Lol but what a coincidence, same here, my hypothyroid symptoms got way worse when getting on a low-carb diet while backpacking as well.. All the time I thought it was CFS from some bug/gut bacteria.. Can't believe I sticked to those stressing low-carb/paleo diets for years.

IME a low-carb diet can be tricky - you get really energized by the increase in cortisol and catecholamines, but over time it'll take its toll on your metabolism, hormonal balance etc.

Now I'm doing basically the opposite - I've been following some of Ray Peat's ideas on diet, i.e eating to reduce stress levels and raise metabolic rate. This has really helped me turn my health around. I can really recommend you look into it if you're hypothyroid.

Oh interesting, coincidence indeed! Yeah while exploring the city, I had been convinced by a book I had come across in passing called, "My Dog Eats Better Than Your Kids", which is basically a comic strip that graphically convinces its readers how bad the food of modern agriculture society is. Horrible book in retrospect, and by following it I ruined my health I'm convinced. Where were you backpacking and what made you start the low carb trend? I'll take a look at Ray Peat's ideas. It's funny, I've been eating more than ever in the past week and my blood pressure, as of today, is at it's absolute best compared to what I've seen in the past year. Thank goodness I'm off that low carb/calorie diet.

[Esoparagon]

I ate carbohydrates. A banana. Rice! Mixed vegetables. Mixed berries. Around 150g I would estimate for the day yesterday. This morning I don't feel my usual zombie self. I only slept 6.5 hours. I feel just normal sleepiness so far. Still no word from the sleep study guys.

[JBForrester]

High-five Eso!!! Right on. Keep us updated on how you continue to feel if you decide to continue incorporating carbs. Normal sleepiness is way better than zombie sleepiness. Hopefully it'll just keep getting better. I just ate an entire turkey sandwich yesterday for the first time in about 5 years! I had been in the habit of staying away from stuff like that but decided to give in and felt amazing!

[lourdaud]

The answers are all here, Esparagon. There seems to be some kind of emotional/mental issue that is preventing the solutions from being applied.

Before they had modern thyroid tests, the test was the symptoms and a "basal temperature" test, I think. I think that meant they told the patient to take their temperature under their arm first thing in the morning for several days. I believe that when the thyroid problem was present, the temperature was low, like yours, Esparagon. I'd take this test and write down the temps for any docs. Contact the thyroid support group in your area and find out which doctor they like best. If there's no thyroid group, try chronic fatigue. If you want to break out of this, you have to take certain actions now.

Ray Peat (whose main dietary principle is to eat to raise metabolism) thinks that basal body temperature and resting heart rate is more accurate of thyroid status than TSH and T3/T4 values.
Personally I'm still at around 36 degrees C, in spite of 6 months of P-eating.. Not sure if I need a thyroid med, I'm thinking I may still be recovering from those years of low-carb dieting..

Oh interesting, coincidence indeed! Yeah while exploring the city, I had been convinced by a book I had come across in passing called, "My Dog Eats Better Than Your Kids", which is basically a comic strip that graphically convinces its readers how bad the food of modern agriculture society is. Horrible book in retrospect, and by following it I ruined my health I'm convinced. Where were you backpacking and what made you start the low carb trend? I'll take a look at Ray Peat's ideas. It's funny, I've been eating more than ever in the past week and my blood pressure, as of today, is at it's absolute best compared to what I've seen in the past year. Thank goodness I'm off that low carb/calorie diet.

Heh, sounds a bit like me.. I was backpacking in South East Asia and got hooked on the paleo trend, tried to eliminate grains and toxins etc, hoping it would improve my mental health (and loved how ripped it made me). Still not sure grain is very good for you but I got way too restrictive on the carbs. I think it took a major toll on my health, especially since I was under a lot of stress already and caught several infections, bugs etc.. Very frustrating to realize that it was probably the worst thing I could've done...

I ate carbohydrates. A banana. Rice! Mixed vegetables. Mixed berries. Around 150g I would estimate for the day yesterday. This morning I don't feel my usual zombie self. I only slept 6.5 hours. I feel just normal sleepiness so far. Still no word from the sleep study guys.

Wow great news! Hope you keep on improving. Personally I do best at around 250 grams of carbs, more if I exercise, try to experiment to see how much you need.

[Esoparagon]

Yesterday night I was extremely bloated. I looked pregnant. And I was in so much pain for a while. It could be an adaptation process or just a fluke. As far as calling up a thyroid support place, I hadn't thought of that. I'll have a look around. I'm not sure if the carbs are helping me mentally. It's too early to tell. I'm going to continue with 150g to make sure I'm not rapidly gaining weight. It doesn't seem like it so far and I have not been voraciously hungry as I suspected I would be. I'll stay away from refined sugar and bread/pasta still. Being able to choose from 'normal people food' is nice.

One reason it takes me a while to implement things is I'm trying so hard to keep up with my work in-spite of my fog which takes 110% of my ability.

[alexburke]

I might have found a solution to my own brain fog problem. I believe its stress-sleep related.

I quit smoking pot years ago but I found if a very very tiny amount was smoked *Not enough to make me high*
I sleep better and wake up with a clear head.

[Ichigo]

I sometimes have this brain fog myself.. everything looks gray shades, not alive, feeling a bit disconnected. it comes and it goes on it's own record.

[Luminosity]

alexburke, I disagree. Pot isn't the answer to that problem.