77 replies to this topic

[Kevnzworld]

I recently turned 57. I've been taking bioidentical hormones for over 10 years. Primarily testosterone and DHEA. . I get my blood levels tested every six months and have adjusted my levels accordingly. I also monitor my estradiol levels and have recently began taking a small amount of a prescription aromatase inhibitor.
I've decided to get a much more extensive blood hormone panel . I'm considering taking a low dose of HGH if I test very deficient. I know there are some studies that show suppressed levels of IGF are associated with longer lifespans, but I'm unconvinced.
I'm open to thoughts and opinions on HGH replacement from the forum.
Thanks

[tunt01]

If you are unconvinced that lower IGF extends life, how do you explain Ames dwarf mouse, Laron syndrome? I fail to understand how it's not convincing??

If I was here arguing for a pro-HGH/IGF routine, I would think it's incumbent upon me to present compelling evidence rather than expect everyone here to convince me otherwise...

[Kevnzworld]

If you are unconvinced that lower IGF extends life, how do you explain Ames dwarf mouse, Laron syndrome? I fail to understand how it's not convincing??

If I was here arguing for a pro-HGH/IGF routine, I would think it's incumbent upon me to present compelling evidence rather than expect everyone here to convince me otherwise...

I'm NOT arguing for a pro HGH routine, I'm soliciting opinions and thoughts. There is some evidence that men that have there testicles removed at puberty outlive men that didn't...yet I think the current medical evidence supports testosterone replacement. We know that it improves cardiovascular function, muscle mass, bone health and insulin sensitivity.
There are some in the anti aging arena, ( Dr Ronald Klatz, the founder of A4M for example ), that believe that sensible, moderate HRT that includes HGH benefits many markers of human aging.

[tunt01]

There are 2 ways of looking at this HGH deficiency issue.


1. HGH levels of a 30 year old and comparing it to your age/HGH levels as a 57 year old and saying, "Wow I'm deficit, must inject to get back to age 30 levels."

2. You are materially (1-2 std deviations) HGH deficient compared to the average 57 year old male, perhaps due to damage to your pituitary gland or whatnot. Need to have synthetic injections to get back to a 57 year old level.

You be the the judge as to what is appropriate.

[Kevnzworld]

The goal of all hormone replacement therapy is to reverse the physiological consequences of age related hormonal decline....( andropause/ menopause ).
A normal 57 year old produces a fraction of the hormones that a 35 yo does. The goal is to optimize and restore levels to that of a pre andropause level.
Whether or not one should do that with all hormones including HGH is the question. Testosterone, DHEA, melatonin etc aren't as controversial.

[Kevnzworld]

I am still considering low dose GH replacement. I came upon the following:

The mortality curve obtained suggests that long-term low-dose growth hormone treatment prolongs life expectancy. ( mice )
http://www.sciencedi...04763749190026V
The hypothesis that supraphysiological levels of GH can accelerate aging derives indirect support from findings in GH-deficient and GH-resistant mutant mice in which aging is delayed and the life-span is increased and from the reciprocal relationship of body size and longevity within species.
http://www.karger.co.../FullText/73704

Mice that showed increased longevity with low IGF seemed to do so due to better insulin sensitivity, lower weight and effects similar to CR.
Humans have much longer lifespans . It would seem to me that if one believes that HRT is beneficial to life extension, it should apply to GH too. With all hormones, dosing is Important. Supraphysiological supplementation is harmful. The key if one was to replace moderate amounts of GH would be to monitor insulin and blood sugar levels it would seem. Moderate CR, and metformin supplementation might be complementary to GH replacement.
It wasn't that long ago that testosterone replacement was considered taboo by allopathic MD's. Now it's benefits for aging men are fairly well documented.
I'll continue reading before I make a decision. I have taken a comprehensive hormone panel, and awaiting the results.

[RJ23_1989]

There's seems to be a growing trend among (some) physicians to supplement TRT therapy with growth hormone and ghrelin peptides, not exogenous sources like somatotropin etc.

Sermorelin and Ipamorelin are what you need to be looking at. They are not associated with corresponding rises in IGF-1.

If you're looking for 'quality of life' improvement, your body is still capable of producing youthful levels in a natural manner, given the proper signaling analogues. Look in that direction and do your research

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

[meatsauce]

Look into using a combo of a ghrp with mod grf (1-29). This will resore your natural pusle of growth hormone release with all 5 isoforms of hgh vs only one isoform and an elevation of hgh with exogeneous.

Restoring the natrual puse is more natural and has more benefits than using exogeneous HGH.

[Kevnzworld]

There are many natural ways to stimulate/ release GH. They also raise IGF-1. Which is counter intuitive if low levels of IGF are pro longevity in humans.
Strength and resistance training , Whey protein, BCAA's, and DHEA/ testosterone replacement for instance.

[meatsauce]

There are many natural ways to stimulate/ release GH. They also raise IGF-1. Which is counter intuitive if low levels of IGF are pro longevity in humans.
Strength and resistance training , Whey protein, BCAA's, and DHEA/ testosterone replacement for instance.

Stimulating hgh release in a pulsed pattern will not raise systemic IGF-1 levels if used three times a day, and three times a day is not the minumum needed for anti aging purposes. You can use it once a day right before sleep which will enhance deep sleep.

Raises of IGF-1 occurs with elevations of hgh and will start to occur with frequent dosing of the ghrp/mod-grf(1-29) combo.

I can give you a really good website where you can learn all about this.

[RJ23_1989]

Look into using a combo of a ghrp with mod grf (1-29). This will resore your natural pusle of growth hormone release with all 5 isoforms of hgh vs only one isoform and an elevation of hgh with exogeneous.

Restoring the natrual puse is more natural and has more benefits than using exogeneous HGH.

Right. Exactly.

That's my combo - I was going to suggest it but figured the topic of Mod GRF was too complex. In any case it is superior to sermorelin inasmuch as its bio-availability is concerned. The problem is many peptide dealers are passing off CJC 1295 w/o DAC, CJC 1288, and CJC 1293 as MOD-GRF (1-29). They are not equivalents and one needs to be mindful that you could inadvertently end up with a continuous 'GH bleed' release pattern rather than a natural pulse.

Kev - your assumption on elevated IGF-1 levels is based on the administration of exogenous HGH. This is an entirely different mechanism

Paper here

....Unlike exogenous rhGH that causes production of the bioactive hormone IGF-1 from the liver, sermorelin simulates the patients own pituitary gland by binding to specific receptors to increase production and secretion of endogenous hGH. Because sermorelin increases endogenous hGH by stimulating the pituitary gland, it has certain physiological and clinical advantages over hGH that include:

• Effects are regulated by negative feedback involving the inhibitory neurohormone, somatostatin, so that unlike administration of exogenous rhGH, overdoses of endogenous hGH are difficult if not impossible to achieve,
• Because of the interactive effects of sermorelin and somatostain, release of hGH by the pituitary is episodic or intermittent rather than constant as with injected rhGH.
• Tachphylaxis is avoided because sermorelin-induced release of pituitary hGH is not “square wave”, but instead simulates more normal physiology,
• Sermorelin stimulates pituitary gene transcription of hGH messenger RNA, increasing pituitary reserve and thereby preserving more of the growth hormone neuroendocrine axis, which is the first to fail during aging (Walker et al 1994).
• Pituitary recrudescence resulting from sermorelin helps slow the cascade of hypophyseal hormone failure that occurs during aging thereby preserving not only youthful anatomy but also youthful physiology (Villalobos et al 1997).

Edited by PatrickM500, 04 September 2013 - 09:40 PM.

[Johannes]

Take some Alpha GPC, it has been shown to increase growth hormone secretion especially in people who are already deficient.

Here's the study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22673596

[SearchingForAnswers]

 

Look into using a combo of a ghrp with mod grf (1-29). This will resore your natural pusle of growth hormone release with all 5 isoforms of hgh vs only one isoform and an elevation of hgh with exogeneous.

Restoring the natrual puse is more natural and has more benefits than using exogeneous HGH.

Right. Exactly.

That's my combo - I was going to suggest it but figured the topic of Mod GRF was too complex. In any case it is superior to sermorelin inasmuch as its bio-availability is concerned. The problem is many peptide dealers are passing off CJC 1295 w/o DAC, CJC 1288, and CJC 1293 as MOD-GRF (1-29). They are not equivalents and one needs to be mindful that you could inadvertently end up with a continuous 'GH bleed' release pattern rather than a natural pulse.

Can you tell me if ceretropic's CJC-1295 is actually MOD GRF 1-29? I'm getting some pretty serious side effects, in combination with ipamorelin. Just using 100 mcg of each twice a day, but I'm getting serious heart palpitations and chest pain (I get the chest pain, non-cardiac, frequently but it's much worse).

 

http://www.ceretropi...-1295-solution/

[Skunkdaddy]

So is the Ceretropic adequate as Mod GRF 1-29 without the affinity complex? Follow up please

[sedstanislav]

who used long-acting growth hormone?

[Nate-2004]

I know where to get HGH on darknet but has anyone over 40 tried this for any period of time on any kind of cycle and in conjunction with something like DHEA?

 

My curiosity about HGH is quite peaked and yet the stuff is illegal and on the black market, like a lot of useful products. Which doesn't mean it's useful for reversing aging, but it does mean the research is not as robust as it should be and that there's some misguided reason I'm sure that's keeping it there. So it's stuck in the realm of self-experimentation which sucks.

 

I'd like to know if anyone has tried it though.

Edited by Nate-2004, 06 October 2016 - 02:30 PM.

[platypus]

MK-677? Why bother with HGH these days as the secretacogues are so good...

[Nate-2004]

Because this conversation is about HGH and aging and a question of whether anyone over 40 has tried it. I don't know much about MK-677 or what it has to do with this.

Edited by Nate-2004, 06 October 2016 - 02:48 PM.

[platypus]

If your goal is to take HGH, ok. If your goal instead is to increase HGH-levels, then there are many options, some of them arguably better than HGH itself. 

[Nate-2004]

Go on?

[platypus]

Check MK677, it increases the normal pulsatile release of HGH and can be taken orally.

 

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Ibutamoren

https://en.wikipedia...ne_secretagogue

Edited by platypus, 06 October 2016 - 04:00 PM.

[Nate-2004]

Have you tried MK-677?

[APBT]

See the following for more on MK-677:
http://www.longecity...c/77080-mk-677/

http://www.longecity...mone-releasers/

[Junk Master]

I've taken MK-677 for a couple cycles.  IMO the chief benefit was better quality sleep and quicker sleep onset.  Which is a pretty good reason to take it!

 

However, I never took it for longer than 6 weeks and I believe a longer trial would be necessary to see HGH increase results.

 

I will say I have many friends in the bodybuilding community who have taken exogenous HGH and the results they see are much more immediate, and vastly more profound than anything I experienced with MK-677.  Then again, they were taking what would be considered huge doses here.

 

Interestingly, by comparison, I experience a more pronounced decline in muscle soreness from 32 ounces of hydrogen water make with Magnesium rods and Malic acid (see that thread) then I ever did with MK-77;  however, I do not experience any of the sleep benefits with hydrogen water.

 

Another interesting comparison is to C60/OO, which within a week visibly improved my skin tone and reduced crow's feet.  It also instantly improved my endurance as evidenced by reps of biceps curls jumping from 8-12 reps, and chest press reps jumping from 8-14 reps.  This increase in endurance was lost within two weeks of stopping C60/OO.

 

 

[Nate-2004]

I'll be taking it for about 12 weeks starting at 12mg per day and perhaps increasing it to 25mg at some point. We'll see what happens.

 

The arguments for why it's better than direct HGH seem pretty sound but you could be right about it being better to go with that. I'm wondering about taking DHEA with it as supposedly it helps prevent higher HGH levels from blocking insulin function.

 

I also drink hydrogen water and while muscle soreness has certainly diminished, I don't notice much else. Then again what could be happening is beyond my immediate perception and perhaps more long term. It's cheap and doesn't hurt to drink more water and get more magnesium, worse case.

[aconita]

The point here is that MK677 triggers a natural release of HGH which is probably unlikely to ever get much above physiological youth levels while injecting exogenous HGH has no limits and one can easily achieve much above physiological levels (with all the good and the bad that comes with it).

 

For a bodybuilder looking to the next Mr Olympia MK677 is not likely to make much of a difference but it will for the not anymore so young in order to slow down aging.

 

Since with MK677 the goal is to optimize HGH levels close to those of a 20 years old there should be no issue about insulin interference.

 

DHEA is better taken cautiously since it can rise estradiol more than desirable and may also cause hearth palpitations in some individuals (not so uncommon as you might think).

 

I may suggest progesterone-pregnenolone-DHEA (50mg-10mg-5mg/day) topically, maybe in DMSO (bioidentical pregnenolone is not going to solute completely since it is very stubborn but even if only in suspension it likely makes its way where it should), topically on face is likely smart since DHEA and progesterone do improve skin texture, face is nicely vascularized too for easy absorption.

 

The above combination and low DHEA dosage plus the topical route should ensure best results and no unpleasant side effects, anyway not for younger than 40 unless specific hormonal issues need to be tackled.

 

 

[platypus]

The point here is that MK677 triggers a natural release of HGH which is probably unlikely to ever get much above physiological youth levels while injecting exogenous HGH has no limits and one can easily achieve much above physiological levels (with all the good and the bad that comes with it).

My understanding is that retaining the pulsatile release is very desirable - elevating HGH-levels all the time is known as "HGH-bleed" and it can cause nasty side-effects like organ growth in the long run. 

[Nate-2004]

My understanding is that retaining the pulsatile release is very desirable

 

I assume this is what MK-677 does?

[aconita]

I assume this is what MK-677 does?

 

Yes,it is.

 

In practice (and strangely) there is no much difference that I am aware of between the pulsatile release and the spike from exogenous HGH but undoubtedly MK677 leads to a "normal" pattern where exogenous HGH doesn't.

 

HGH itself is not what causes dramatic effects, it is the IGF-1 release triggered by the HGH that really does the trick, the main issue when rising HGH ABOVE physiological levels is that IGF-1 does so as well and ABOVE physiological levels IGF-1 can promote abnormal growth of tissues which may mean cancer or internal organs enlargement, since most IGF-1 receptors are located in the intestine that organ is more susceptible to enlargement (professional bodybuilders turtle belly) and eventually cancer.

 

Rising IGF-1 via rising HGH to youth levels is desirable while going ABOVE those levels gets dangerous or at least carries risks one is better to be aware of.

[Keizo]

If you are unconvinced that lower IGF extends life, how do you explain Ames dwarf mouse, Laron syndrome? I fail to understand how it's not convincing??

If I was here arguing for a pro-HGH/IGF routine, I would think it's incumbent upon me to present compelling evidence rather than expect everyone here to convince me otherwise...

I am quite ignorant on the matter, this is just a thought (since you mention dwarf-type syndromes)

More cells (larger person) -> more mutations over time -> more bad things happen over time -> likelihood of death increases