77 replies to this topic

[aconita]

More cells (larger person) -> more mutations over time -> more bad things happen over time -> likelihood of death increases

 

Large animals tends to live very long while small ones have usually very short lives....

[Keizo]

 

More cells (larger person) -> more mutations over time -> more bad things happen over time -> likelihood of death increases

 

Large animals tends to live very long while small ones have usually very short lives....

 

And the smaller humans and the smaller mouses in the example lived longer than their larger counterparts. 

 

Large dogs also live shorter lives than small dogs, on average.

[sthira]

I recently turned 57. I've been taking bioidentical hormones for over 10 years. Primarily testosterone and DHEA. . I get my blood levels tested every six months and have adjusted my levels accordingly. I also monitor my estradiol levels and have recently began taking a small amount of a prescription aromatase inhibitor.
I've decided to get a much more extensive blood hormone panel . I'm considering taking a low dose of HGH if I test very deficient. I know there are some studies that show suppressed levels of IGF are associated with longer lifespans, but I'm unconvinced.
I'm open to thoughts and opinions on HGH replacement from the forum.
Thanks

Have you looked into periodic fasting to both increase HGH and decrease IGF-1? Fasting may be unpopular, it it's not as difficult as we imagine, and in fact our bodies evolved during periods of feast and famine. If you've not looked into the work of Valter Longo and the recent writings of Jason Fung, check them out.

[aconita]

Do pygmies, where " evidence points towards unusually low levels of expression of the genes encoding the growth hormone receptor and growth hormone compared to the related tribal groups, associated with low serum levels of insulin-like growth factor-1 " live longer than other populations?

https://en.wikipedia...i/Pygmy_peoples

 

My knowledge is their life expectancy is 16-24....

 

[APBT]

I'll be taking it for about 12 weeks starting at 12mg per day and perhaps increasing it to 25mg at some point. We'll see what happens.

 

 

Where did you end up purchasing your MK-677?  Is it powder or liquid?

[Nate-2004]

 

I'll be taking it for about 12 weeks starting at 12mg per day and perhaps increasing it to 25mg at some point. We'll see what happens.

 

 

Where did you end up purchasing your MK-677?  Is it powder or liquid?

 

 

Southern Sarms, it's the 50mg / ml one. Started at a quarter of a ml, working up to half.

[Junk Master]

http://www.nyles7.com/

 

He's a member here and I have never had any trouble with his quality, shipping etc.  The only problem is he's out of stock at the moment.

[Rocket]

 

I am quite ignorant on the matter, this is just a thought (since you mention dwarf-type syndromes)

More cells (larger person) -> more mutations over time -> more bad things happen over time -> likelihood of death increases

 

 

 

So if you take your argument to it's logical conclusion, a large animal with 2 trillion cells is more like to die than a single celled organism. 

 

The reality is that the lager animal can absorb more damage and more mutations over time than smaller single celled animal: it has 2 trillion cells many of which are redundant. If the smaller organism loses it's one cell, it's dead. One mutation, and it's dead. One stray cosmic ray striking it's DNA and it's doomed. 

 

I'm sorry but your argument doesn't box.

 

 

Edited by Rocket, 18 October 2016 - 08:43 PM.

[platypus]

Take it easy on the Mk-677 dosage, some people are quite sensiitive to the effects and more leads to huge food cravings and possibly increase in fat mass. Less is more as it usually is...I'm finding just 7.5mg is increasing my deep sleep nicely.

[Nate-2004]

Take it easy on the Mk-677 dosage, some people are quite sensiitive to the effects and more leads to huge food cravings and possibly increase in fat mass. Less is more as it usually is...I'm finding just 7.5mg is increasing my deep sleep nicely.

 

Dually noted. I'm noticing that already. I need to make sure I hit the gym often too. 

[Rocket]

 

Take it easy on the Mk-677 dosage, some people are quite sensiitive to the effects and more leads to huge food cravings and possibly increase in fat mass. Less is more as it usually is...I'm finding just 7.5mg is increasing my deep sleep nicely.

 

Dually noted. I'm noticing that already. I need to make sure I hit the gym often too. 

 

 

If you're going to spend hundreds (collectively) over months and months of supplementing with MK677, please get pre- and post-blood tests to make sure what you're using is real.  I did this when I supplemented with CJC1295 w/DAC and found that what I was buying was under-dosed based on the literature of what 'real' CJC does to IGF blood values.  There are a couple of private labs that you can find online with locations in every state where you can order the tests without fooling around with doctors. Don't waste your money when for $100 you be sure what you're using is real.

 

 

[Nate-2004]

 

 

Take it easy on the Mk-677 dosage, some people are quite sensiitive to the effects and more leads to huge food cravings and possibly increase in fat mass. Less is more as it usually is...I'm finding just 7.5mg is increasing my deep sleep nicely.

 

Dually noted. I'm noticing that already. I need to make sure I hit the gym often too. 

 

 

If you're going to spend hundreds (collectively) over months and months of supplementing with MK677, please get pre- and post-blood tests to make sure what you're using is real.  I did this when I supplemented with CJC1295 w/DAC and found that what I was buying was under-dosed based on the literature of what 'real' CJC does to IGF blood values.  There are a couple of private labs that you can find online with locations in every state where you can order the tests without fooling around with doctors. Don't waste your money when for $100 you be sure what you're using is real.

 

 

What would I have them test for when it comes to MK677? I did find good reviews about Southern Sarms by other users who've tested their products for accuracy.

[aconita]

Hey Nate, how are you doing with MK677?

[Nate-2004]

I was going to wait another week or two before replying because I'm only 3 weeks or so in here, but holy crap this shit is awesome already, at least at the gym. My lower back pain is significantly less and I feel like, fitness wise, I'm 10 years younger or more. I'm able to lift so much more weight without any pain, squats are especially easier. Going a full 12 weeks here so we'll see how things go.

[aconita]

Great!

 

Thinking about giving a try too....

 

Are you still at 12,5mg/day?

[Nate-2004]

Great!

 

Thinking about giving a try too....

 

Are you still at 12,5mg/day?

 

Well, Southern Sarms has a 30ml bottle that's 50mg/ml and taking them on their word (they have a good rep on other forums), I take anywhere from a quarter to a half ml in the morning every day. I'll probably cycle 12 weeks on, 12 weeks off with it. 

 

So far the difference in my strength and muscle growth is all I am noticing, which in itself is sort of a reversal of age effects but not sure about the mechanisms. My hope is that it also stimulates collagen and other kinds of positive growth.

 

If I had any connections with anyone who has a lab, I'd be trying GDF-11 as well, but I can't seem to find anyone I can send it to.

[Nate-2004]

Southern Sarms charges half price right now (they show a cross out of a much higher price on par with other vendors), $89, for 50mg/ml. Despite these results I'm having (and for me placebo never goes beyond 2 weeks, I'm seeing results 4 weeks in), I am still uncertain as to why they're charging so little for it. Maybe they're just getting rid of an older batch. Sarmsx and Sarms1 both charge around $197 per bottle, which is expensive, but Sarmsx is also often recommended on many other bodybuilding forums. I could give sarms1 a try to see if I notice a difference but it'll have to wait till I can afford it.

 

I realize this thread has become more about MK-677 than direct injections of growth hormone, but from all my reading and experience so far, MK-677 is probably the safest bet.

 

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 11 November 2016 - 03:15 PM.

[pleb]

Hi Nate. I've been taking HGH for about 3 years now. at the rate of 1iu a day. It is legal this side of the pond as long as you import it for your own use. I started taking it after reading the study done by the New England school of medicine in the 1990s using a group of guys round my age.
. I stopped using it for a few months while I was out of the country after finishing what I had here at home and noticed quite a difference in how I felt.
I have just restarted after taking delivery of a new batch and within a week (Ive take 2iu) a day for this first week to make up for the time I was off it.
While I was on it previously I did feel a lot better than I do now more like I did when I was 10 or 15 years younger.
At my age the pituitary gland produced probably less than 10 percent of the amount it did when I was about 20yrs of age. 1iu to 2iu is the normal amount recommended to be taken to bring the level back up to the amount we produce when we are about 20 years of age
Regarding seceratagoges (I've probably spelt that wrong) . They May or may not produce the amount needed I've yet to see any study done by independent labs to indicate that its use causes our pituatry gland to produce that amount. they may have a limited effect. it mostly seems to be hype by the seller's of the products. MK-677 may possibly be the exception.
But it's dearer for me to buy than HGH .

[Junk Master]

Imagine how good you'd feel on 3 grams of test, 500 mg of equipoise, a hand full of Anavar, and 16 IU of growth a day like a professional bodybuilder I know takes during his bulking phase!  Plus a little insulin post meals.

 

That's why I get such a kick out of the "Piracetam ruined my brain" threads.

 

The human body can take a massive amount of abuse if allowed to adapt and the right genes.  Another friend worked his way up to a 45 Vicodin a day habit without dying...good God!

 

I see no reason except cost and a family history of cancer NOT to run responsible HRT and the occasional cycle of MK-677 if you are more concerned about "Healthspan" v. Lifespan.

[Rocket]

Imagine how good you'd feel on 3 grams of test, 500 mg of equipoise, a hand full of Anavar, and 16 IU of growth a day like a professional bodybuilder I know takes during his bulking phase!  Plus a little insulin post meals.

 

That's why I get such a kick out of the "Piracetam ruined my brain" threads.

 

The human body can take a massive amount of abuse if allowed to adapt and the right genes.  Another friend worked his way up to a 45 Vicodin a day habit without dying...good God!

 

I see no reason except cost and a family history of cancer NOT to run responsible HRT and the occasional cycle of MK-677 if you are more concerned about "Healthspan" v. Lifespan.

 

LOL

I don't know anyone shooting 3.5g of steroids a day. Anavar is also a cutting steroid as it preserves muscle in dietary restrictions and doesn't increase muscle mass. It's not used in bulking cycles. Anymore than 1g of testosterone a week is wasted. Even if someone were to shoot 3g of test a week (not daily), they would not feel good with all the water retention and bloating. Their liver would also be TRASHED on that cycle. They would feel like crud.
 

[Junk Master]

It's 3 Grams a week, of course.  As for the Anavar, there are lots of idiots out there, as you know, who will just gobble 'var if they can get their hands on it.  Does it make sense in a bulking cycle, no.   Most like the synergism 'Var has with creatine.

 

As for more than 1 gram of test a week, you have to remember this is a bodybuilder who has been using since 18-19, and his receptors are saturated.  Plus, we both know bodybuilders subscribe to the "more is better" mentality.

 

I'm not talking about him but you can find a youtube vid where Bostin Lloyd openly talks with Dave Palumbo about taking 3G of test per week.

 

As for the water retention, most just run Aromasin, plus mild diuretics like vitamin c and dandelion root.  Plus, some LIKE a little water retention.  Makes them feel fuller.

 

 Now the liver is an amazing organ!  Again, this is a guy who is a habitual user.  Same as the Vicodin user.  If I were to take 1/5 of that Vicodin  my liver would shut down!  Plus, I'd OD...lol.

 

I'd say the acetaminophen in all that Vicodin is far worse for your liver than the Test.

 

Besides, you get my point.  One time use of Piracetam is far less likely to ruin your brain than binge drinking.

 

Meanwhile Piracetam is banned from Amazon, yet Amazon sells Phenylpiracetam, and various prohormones/steroid prodrugs that COULD be very dangerous to young kids.

 

 

[Nate-2004]

I'm as much concerned about healthspan as I am lifespan, the two should be directly proportional to each other.  There is a lot of concern with taking hormones directly because of the atrophy that can result in glands such as the pituitary, due to the fact that it's not the one working to produce said hormone. I don't know the degree of evidence supporting that concern anymore than the degree of evidence supporting the same concern for endogenous antioxidants like R-ALA.

 

I want to take the least risky route. I initially saw some significant results with MK-677 up until I injured my arm after wiping out on my bike in the rain. For a while my lower back pain even went away, but it mysteriously came back after 3 weeks. Not sure if the two were related. I've done nothing different since. I assumed it was because of an increased level of strength but it could just as well have been a coincidence of dumb luck, perhaps a disc slipped into place for a while.

 

Despite this my performance with squats, deadlifts, bench press and curls was significantly improved and I was able to lift more than I have for a decade now. I wish I hadn't torn my rotator cuff again, I'd be in a good place by now.

 

I'm trying another more expensive brand of MK-677 starting Weds.

 

I don't know what the purpose of cycling these things are. Some say to cycle MK-677 for 12 weeks, but never mention how long between cycles or why one should cycle.

[Rocket]

I'm as much concerned about healthspan as I am lifespan, the two should be directly proportional to each other.  There is a lot of concern with taking hormones directly because of the atrophy that can result in glands such as the pituitary, due to the fact that it's not the one working to produce said hormone. I don't know the degree of evidence supporting that concern anymore than the degree of evidence supporting the same concern for endogenous antioxidants like R-ALA.

 

I want to take the least risky route. I initially saw some significant results with MK-677 up until I injured my arm after wiping out on my bike in the rain. For a while my lower back pain even went away, but it mysteriously came back after 3 weeks. Not sure if the two were related. I've done nothing different since. I assumed it was because of an increased level of strength but it could just as well have been a coincidence of dumb luck, perhaps a disc slipped into place for a while.

 

Despite this my performance with squats, deadlifts, bench press and curls was significantly improved and I was able to lift more than I have for a decade now. I wish I hadn't torn my rotator cuff again, I'd be in a good place by now.

 

I'm trying another more expensive brand of MK-677 starting Weds.

 

I don't know what the purpose of cycling these things are. Some say to cycle MK-677 for 12 weeks, but never mention how long between cycles or why one should cycle.

 

Can't speak to MK677, I tried it but never had blood tests done.

 

But with PS's CJC1295 w/DAC at 5mg a week, I saw approximately a 50% increase in IGF-1  doing before and after blood tests.  I was expecting values to be higher based on the study I read which causes me to think it may have been under-dosed. But nonetheless it does work.

 

Try BPC157 for your injuries. I've tried a couple different brands, but PS's is the only one that I could inject one night and the next day feel less pain.
 

[aconita]

In professional powerlifting things start to happen above 6g/week testosterone, 3g is just kidding but considering that bodybuilders do take it plus nandrolone plus a lot of other stuff the total amount of testosterone "family" is usually quite bigger than 3g too...and anyway more than testosterone is insulin that makes them really huge freaks.

 

And about water retention they don't care, off season professional bodybuilders (when they are bulking up) don't look very appealing, when the time comes they do know how to get rid of water, don't worry.

 

Just to clarify the issue.

 

 

 

[Rocket]

In professional powerlifting things start to happen above 6g/week testosterone, 3g is just kidding but considering that bodybuilders do take it plus nandrolone plus a lot of other stuff the total amount of testosterone "family" is usually quite bigger than 3g too...and anyway more than testosterone is insulin that makes them really huge freaks.

 

And about water retention they don't care, off season professional bodybuilders (when they are bulking up) don't look very appealing, when the time comes they do know how to get rid of water, don't worry.

 

Just to clarify the issue.

 

I've been playing this game and not a stranger to deca or tren. Deca is actually a great healing steroid, though some will say otherwise. But deca stacked with bpc157 has healed injuries I thought would sideline me to the couch. No one injects 6g of anabolics a week. I don't believe cattle are even dosed 6g of anabolics when they are being shipped and in caloric deficits. People will say anything in forums to get attention.... no one with a brain is injecting themselves with 6g of anabolics. I hope they have liver transplant lined up if they do more than a couple weeks of that. They should also be giving a pint of blood every 2 weeks to keep from dying.

[aconita]

You are misinformed, I can assure you that my information is quite reliable and not from forums, anyway I seriously doubt professional powerlifters of international fame will write in forums...

 

I am talking about world records holders, the big names of the game, not just some gym rat.

 

Anyway the main issues seems to be that since testosterone and family are such good healers after many years of massive use and physical abuse without test shots one is not even able to climb out of bed because of the pains, leaving alone the psychological aspect, of course.

 

Cattle are given mostly estrogens, not testosterone.

 

For that matter no one with a brain is injecting themselves with insulin too, which by the way is by far more dangerous than testosterone...or with synthol....

 

[dosquito]

what's the consensus on safety of mk-677 and bpc157 here?

 

 

I've spent a few months getting back in shape and would be interested to run a cycle of mk677. I'm almost 25.

 

I'm also interested in bpc for upper back pain (seemed to get worse with a tennis injury a few years ago)

[aconita]

MK677 is not for a 25 old unless there is a serious medical condition as dwarfism or similar, period.

 

BPC 157 is a whole another matter, you might benefit from it but it would be smart to know exactly what's wrong first...(since it may not be the best option).

 

Maybe an MRI?

[Junk Master]

I believe Aconita, for what it's worth.

 

But getting this back on topic, I've been listening to a good deal of Dr. Rhonda Patrick and was shocked to hear 2 one hour sauna's a day raises growth hormone by 16 times!

 

Wondering if anyone has experience with exogenous heat shock proteins?

 

Who has time to spend two hours a day in the sauna besides old Finnish men?  Lol.

[platypus]

I thought the only reason to use huge amount of test is that it is a lot cheaper than better alternatives. People are known to do dumb things when given the chance