8 replies to this topic

[ta5]

I love cocoa. For about 6-12 hours. I have energy and focus, I feel relaxed, generally good, a little dizzy, less anxious, music sounds better, etc.

After that, the next day, and maybe into the 3rd day, I feel irritable and angry. It puts me in a foul mood. Little things that normally wouldn't bother me, bother me. Things that normally bother me a little, bother me more. I'm less patient.

Is there any way to get the positive effects from cocoa without the later negative effects?

Why does it happen? There's a study on combining cocoa and GABA, that makes me wonder if there's something going on there. There's this article at psychologytoday.com:

OK, what about the anger? How might that happen? Chocolate contains phenethylamine (PEA), a molecule that resembles amphetamine and some of other psychoactive stimulants. When chocolate is eaten, PEA is rapidly metabolized by the enzyme MAO. Fifty percent of the PEA you consume in a chocolate bar is metabolized within only ten minutes. Thus very little PEA usually reaches the brain, thus contributing little or no appreciable psychoactive effect without the use of a drug that can inhibit MAO. Could this happen? Possibly yes. MAO levels are at their lowest level in premenstrual women, which is the time when women most crave the soothing effects of chocolate. In addition, chocolate also contains small amounts of the amino acid tyramine.

Tyramine can powerfully induce the release of adrenaline, increase blood pressure and heart rate and produce nausea and headaches. Usually, the nasty effects of tyramine are prevented because it too is metabolized by MAO. You can see the problem: the tyramine and PEA in chocolate may slow each other's metabolism. The consequence is having both of these chemicals hang around too long in the body would be high blood pressure, a fast beating heart, heightened arousal, racing thoughts, anger, anxiety and rage. One rather controversial study claimed that inhibitors of MAO were able to increase PEA levels in the brain by 1000-fold! That's a lot and the consequences of this actually happening could be lethal. However, the potential exists for some vulnerable people to experience significant shifts in mood after eating chocolates with high cocoa powder levels.

I don't have the fast beating heart. I don't notice any physical negative effects, just on my mood. I sleep okay and no jitters.

I take lots of natural MAO inhibitors, like Curcumin, Resveratrol, Anthocyanins, Proanthocyanidins, Manganese, and maybe some others.

Thanks.

[Brafarality]

I think your negative effects are caused by withdrawal symptoms, not by the immiscibility of cocoa and other substances. A hair of the dog that bit you is the best advice: that is, don't go 2 days without it. No reason for that, especially if you are having the good stuff, the whole stuff. It's something that can be had every day. But, if budget is an issue, then perhaps the best quality cheap booze you can afford: maybe Sam Adams or SIerra Nevada? Coffee may also help: good quality at near dirt cheap prices can be had at, of all places, Dunkin Donuts. Essentially, rotate your dependencies so no individual one takes hold or becomes too strong. Much luck with this.

Edited by Brafarality, 25 August 2013 - 08:12 PM.

[sthira]

Is there any way to get the positive effects from cocoa without the later negative effects?

I exercise the extra energy out of me when I feel shitty from too much chocolate or raw cocoa. Have you tried that approach?

[pamojja]

After that, the next day, and maybe into the 3rd day, I feel irritable and angry. It puts me in a foul mood. Little things that normally wouldn't bother me, bother me. Things that normally bother me a little, bother me more. I'm less patient.

I never feel that way from at least 85% dark chocolate. Even though I eat some (ok, sometimes even a whole) every day. There are days without any and still no deterioration of mood. We are all so different..

Could it be you eat those 85% Sugar with a bid of chocolate taste? - that kind of sugar spikes could indeed explain perfectly well the kind of mood swings you're experiencing.

[ta5]

I think your negative effects are caused by withdrawal symptoms

Thanks. Yeah, it does seems like withdrawal symptoms. I suppose I could try having some every 8 hours.

But, now I'm reading how chocolate contains salsolinol, a neurotoxin.

Could it be you eat those 85% Sugar with a bid of chocolate taste?

I would eat 80-90% cocoa bars or 100% cocoa powder.

[ta5]

I exercise the extra energy out of me when I feel shitty from too much chocolate or raw cocoa. Have you tried that approach?

Interesting. I think I have noticed that helps too. I normally work out in the evening, 4 days per week. I guess I would have to work out every morning the days after having chocolate.

[sthira]

I exercise the extra energy out of me when I feel shitty from too much chocolate or raw cocoa. Have you tried that approach?

Interesting. I think I have noticed that helps too. I normally work out in the evening, 4 days per week. I guess I would have to work out every morning the days after having chocolate.

You sound sensitive to cocoa. I get very strong effects for a few hours then it passes; the effects for me rarely extend into the next day. I eat raw cocao and the highest percentage dark chocolate bars I can find -- mostly the >80% stuff. I feel the energy I derive from cocoa is different than coffee and tea.

[ta5]

You sound sensitive to cocoa.

Probably. Maybe I eat too much too. If I have any, it's hard not to eat at least 100g, sometimes 200g.

I feel the energy I derive from cocoa is different than coffee and tea.

Yes. Sometimes people tell me, "yeah, chocolate has caffeine", like that's all it is. Yes, some of the effect might be from caffeine, but the main effect I get from chocolate is not the caffeine.

Or, I love it when people say, "oh, you like candy, don't you?" Candy!? What?? No.

[protoject]

You sound sensitive to cocoa.

Probably. Maybe I eat too much too. If I have any, it's hard not to eat at least 100g, sometimes 200g.

I feel the energy I derive from cocoa is different than coffee and tea.

Yes. Sometimes people tell me, "yeah, chocolate has caffeine", like that's all it is. Yes, some of the effect might be from caffeine, but the main effect I get from chocolate is not the caffeine.

Or, I love it when people say, "oh, you like candy, don't you?" Candy!? What?? No.

Theobromine's half life is 14 hours from what I remember. I believe you are getting high on theobromine. My belief in this is not weak because I experienced the same feeling not only on pure cocoa, but on lots of Yerba Mate which is also high in theobromine.


i am not aware of the theophylline vs theobromine content, but just based off shoddy memory i think the theobromine content was the main factor

Edited by protoject, 01 September 2013 - 06:08 PM.