75 replies to this topic

[Lemon.]

[+] Exercise
[+] Sleep
[+] Diet
[+] Ritalin

[protoject]

one more easy option would be vyvanse because lisdexamphetamine is a prodrug to dexamphetamine hence, spairing you of the levoamphetamine and some of the anxiety of a levo- formulation.

^this

lisdexamfetamine is a lot smoother and more consistent for some people than the regular old dexamphetamine

[medievil]

My stack is extreme, I am reckless, atypical, and have personally studied neuroscience for thousands of hours. I do not recommend anyone do anything anything close to what I do. Rather than a guide book, I just hope to bring forth the possibility that maybe it isn't just the drugs but your underlying anxiety causing a lot of these side effects. These drugs do work however, most of how they work is below your conscious experience and id say especially when your dealing with doses literately 1000%-10,000% lower than what I take.

Exercise
Meditate
Progressive muscle relaxation
CBT
sleep 7-8 hours a night
eat a healthy diet

Then we can dive into endless gaba a gaba b a1 a2 a3 a4 a5 modulation antagonism agonism inhibitory post synaptic current that this and other stuff. I am sure everyone here does all these things but I am sure also everyone especially me can improve.

Haha sounds like me in the past, nonetheless cbt or therapy often is essential on top of medication, also many dont even need meds and improve with therapy, trial and error will tell. As ive said many times even tough you could take amp for social anxiety, chronic exposure is absolutely crucial, this accounts for many things.

As an aside diet +2, ive been transitioning to a keto diet lately to test for any benefits wich may improve the effiacy of the meds i take or even replace some.

[darksanity]

If a mere 5 mg makes you too anxious stimulants might not be the thing for you...

[sid]

I have taken Vyvanse, Dextroamphetamine, and Adderall XR.

My experience was that Vyvanse was not smooth, but a hellacious rollercoaster. It is, to date, easily the worst Rx I've ever taken. Dextroamphetamine on the other hand, is incredibly smooth on the upswing and the let down is nearly impercetible -- no crash, its just done. There is zero physical anxiety from the Dex. I'm taking the Mallinkdrodt brand of the Dex after having read too many posts regarding how crappy the Barr/Teva Dex is. If you are looking to stay on a low dosage of a stim, I would not hesitate in doing a trial of the Dex in place of the Ritalin.

Chelated Magnesium is often recommended for those with anxiety and also for those taking stims, although it is advised to take it at night (not at the same time as the stim). If you have high cortisol you may want to check out the PS-100 supplements, and if you have very high cortisol take a look at Seriphos.

[mrd1]

Given that vyvanse is lisdexamphetamine a prodrug of dexamphetamine. Is it possible that the very big difference in effects could be related to something other than the molecule. For example, maybe the dosage was higher? Maybe the vyvanse was taken too lately since it lasts longer? It is interesting that you claim that it was a rollercoaster because it is supposed to have a more even entering into the bloodstream. Perhaps the dosage was then too low so the subtle fluxations in the amount of vyvanse in your system from one single dosage caused gaps in efficacy.

If you think you have high cortisol can a doctor call in a blood test to get a level and maybe even though in vitamin and minerals while they are drawing it since we are talking about magnesium

Given that vyvanse is lisdexamphetamine a prodrug of dexamphetamine. Is it possible that the very big difference in effects could be related to something other than the molecule. For example, maybe the dosage was higher? Maybe the vyvanse was taken too lately since it lasts longer? It is interesting that you claim that it was a rollercoaster because it is supposed to have a more even entering into the bloodstream. Perhaps the dosage was then too low so the subtle fluxations in the amount of vyvanse in your system from one single dosage caused gaps in efficacy.

If you think you have high cortisol can a doctor call in a blood test to get a level and maybe even though in vitamin and minerals while they are drawing it since we are talking about magnesium

[Lemon.]

[+] Exercise
[+] Sleep
[+] Diet
[+] NO CAFFEINE! This is a STRICT rule.
[+] If I was you, I would also avoid any other stimulants.
[+] Avoid repeated/extreme stress.
[+] Go to you're GP and have your general health (heart,bp,liver,etc) checked out...
[+] Ritalin

Edited by Lemon., 11 November 2013 - 11:45 PM.

[giant]

It is unclear if ritalin is more anxiety inducing than dexedrine however, it is possible.

What is probable is that dexedrine is less anxiety inducing than adderall because the levoamphetamine has a strong "body load" and is less "clean"

Since dexedrine has fell out of favor due to abuse and just lack of patents, one more easy option would be vyvanse because lisdexamphetamine is a prodrug to dexamphetamine hence, spairing you of the levoamphetamine and some of the anxiety of a levo- formulation.

 

I am diagnosed with ADHD.

 

I would love to use lisdexamphetamine again. But unfortunately, at the lowest dose it was effective for innatention and everything else for a few hours however, it lost effectiveness around 1pm (if taken at 08:00AM) and after seven hours (08:00AM +7hrs) I would be experiencing extreme stomach pain which would extend right through to the lower back which manifested as back pain which meant that I could not sit comfortably or lie comfortably in bed trying to ride it out. The strong pain from this stressed me out a lot and was unbearable, it felt like acid was buring through my stomach. 

 

I take dexamphetamine immediate release tablets, so far, ive been taking 5mg upon waking, then 2.5mg every two hours. If I was to keep taking 5mg every two hours rather than the 2.5mgs I find that it makes me feel a bit flat so I stick to 2.5mgs every two hours after the morning dose of 5mg. Anyways.... I want to learn more as to how to make it more effective, because somtimes I think it doesnt work so well. I may feel focused, but I do not feel motivated or driven to do my assignments for University. What supplements can be taken along side Dexamphetamine IR tablets in order to increase motivation?

Unfortunately, there are no dexedrine spansules available in the UK. I've no idea why. All we have besides methylphenidate products is "Dextroamfetamine" 5mg tablets & Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse/Elvanse) in 30, 50, and 70mg capsules. 

[medicineman]

clonidine..... it's widely used off label for the Ritalin crash.

not to be used with amphetamines or any nor/epi releasers (ephedrine, etc) as they potentiate each other (enhanced presynaptic accumulation and release)

Edited by medicineman, 22 July 2014 - 08:53 PM.

[ZHMike]

Theanine might be an option

[Major Legend]

Afabazole.

[medievil]

Propranolol

[xks201]

Propranolol

Does that really increase motivation for you? 

[medicineman]

Now that I read more into it, it seems like guanfacine is the best. nootropic, sedative, safe to mix with amphetamine and mph. I'll get to try it soon. drop my low dose mirtazapine for it.

[medievil]

Propranolol

Does that really increase motivation for you?

Prop doesn't help motivation.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

Interesting, well I take 1000mg of caffeine, 55mg of adderall, 80mg of strattera, 2 mg of tenex, and 150mg of effexor. i honestly prefer no benzos. I got tolerant over the years. 1.5-3g of ashwangdha with 750mg bacopa aint bad.

Do you find the Tenex to help at all with the stim anxiety/ side effects? It seems to be more of a "slow down"/ "Calm down" drug for some people.

Unfortunately I don't think I can take Tenex due to its side effects that it has on me personally, However I've heard that the combination of Tenex (Guanfacine) and stimulants is actually recommended or effective in some cases. (combination is often used in children treated with stims, I've heard a couple of adults saying it worked for them).

 

What are the effects on you? Might it by chance be irritability? It does stack very good with stims, in fact, they seem to help with each others side-effects.

 

There appears to be precedent for supplementing with DMAE and vitamin B12 for counteracting the side-effects of Intuniv as well, so if you don't want to go back on a stim, Intuniv + DMAE might be enough.

 

I suppose it depends on the nature of your disorder - if you are predominantly HYPER, then Intuniv might be all you'll need - that problem is primarily focus and behaviour, not motivation.

ADHD-PI seems to see less benefit from it, since that is primarily a MOTIVATIONAL disorder, not focus or behaviour.

 

 

 

Interesting, well I take 1000mg of caffeine, 55mg of adderall, 80mg of strattera, 2 mg of tenex, and 150mg of effexor. i honestly prefer no benzos. I got tolerant over the years. 1.5-3g of ashwangdha with 750mg bacopa aint bad.

Dude... please drop that caffeine.

You seem very well-educated on this, and well-versed in the effects of the meds - so I don't understand why you are stacking all of this, with CAFFEINE.

Caffeine increases cAMP, and a lot of people with ADHD have this as a core-issue in their disease - they generate too high an amount of cAMP, which then causes too much signal-noise in the PFC, which leads to dysregulation of behaviour, etc. The DECREASE of cAMP is one of the primary modes of effect of Guanfacin XR/Intuniv.

I recommend you check out GetOutofBox's great thread on this forum, he brings up why Caffeine is complete sh*t for most people with ADHD.

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=564512

 

Stopping ritalin.

 

Agreed.

 

OP,  you're in the US - why are you on Ritalin - the DL-mixture??

 

You can get Focalin XR - the D-enantiomer of methylphenidate, it only produces 1,7 times the Norepinephine than the Dopamine.

Compare that to the DL ( concerta, Ritalin) -mixture: it INCREASES NOREPINEPHRINE 40(!) TIMES MORE than it increases Dopamine! 0_o

It's no wonder you feel bad on Ritalin or Concerta, if you have anything close to a normal Norepinephrine -system, the DL-mixture will increase it TOO MUCH, long before you feel the beneficial Dopamine-increase.

 

 

 

 

It is unclear if ritalin is more anxiety inducing than dexedrine however, it is possible.

What is probable is that dexedrine is less anxiety inducing than adderall because the levoamphetamine has a strong "body load" and is less "clean"

Since dexedrine has fell out of favor due to abuse and just lack of patents, one more easy option would be vyvanse because lisdexamphetamine is a prodrug to dexamphetamine hence, spairing you of the levoamphetamine and some of the anxiety of a levo- formulation.

 

I am diagnosed with ADHD.

 

I would love to use lisdexamphetamine again. But unfortunately, at the lowest dose it was effective for innatention and everything else for a few hours however, it lost effectiveness around 1pm (if taken at 08:00AM) and after seven hours (08:00AM +7hrs) I would be experiencing extreme stomach pain which would extend right through to the lower back which manifested as back pain which meant that I could not sit comfortably or lie comfortably in bed trying to ride it out. The strong pain from this stressed me out a lot and was unbearable, it felt like acid was buring through my stomach. 

 

I take dexamphetamine immediate release tablets, so far, ive been taking 5mg upon waking, then 2.5mg every two hours. If I was to keep taking 5mg every two hours rather than the 2.5mgs I find that it makes me feel a bit flat so I stick to 2.5mgs every two hours after the morning dose of 5mg. Anyways.... I want to learn more as to how to make it more effective, because somtimes I think it doesnt work so well. I may feel focused, but I do not feel motivated or driven to do my assignments for University. What supplements can be taken along side Dexamphetamine IR tablets in order to increase motivation?

Unfortunately, there are no dexedrine spansules available in the UK. I've no idea why. All we have besides methylphenidate products is "Dextroamfetamine" 5mg tablets & Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse/Elvanse) in 30, 50, and 70mg capsules. 

 

 

Sounds like you may have some kind of ulcer or something, which is exacerbated by the medication.

 

Are you taking any anti-acids such as Tums, Pepto-Bismol, or Mylanta? They interact strongly with Vyvanse, and can cause cramping, so that may be why you have stomach-pains.

It could be the muscle-pain many of us report tho' - and it seems to manifest at different points, but almost always somewhere in the abdomen. I myself get pains in my back, around my shoulder-blades, and stiffer neck and shoulders.

It seems to be a result of the stims increasing the chronic tension I have - I'm an artist, and I sit at the computer, or over a drawing, for hours on end. With exercise, I had gotten rid of this, but it came back with DL-Methylphenidate.

 

Is the pain you are describing, coming from the Bottom edge of the rib cage? That's where the diaphragm attaches to the side of the body. Not saying that's what it is, just not impossible that it's a muscle pain. Which would point to either strain or dehydration as the simplest reasons why.

 

And if it's an extreme form of muscle pain, then all of this, should, combined, help:
 

• Drink FAR more water. Force yourself to do it.
• Eat more foods containing water. ( cucumber, water-melon)
• Eat more magnesium-filled food. ( raspberries, almonds)
• Eat more anti-inflammatory foods. ( Salmon and other fatty fish, replace all regular grains with WHOLE grains, Spinach, kale, broccoli all  dark greens, almonds, home-made tomato-sauce, etc )
• Take Omega-3 fish oil supplements
• Take Magnesium supplements. ( Mg-Citrate is good for this)

 

OR... If you already do this, and it's not enough -

-then try dissolving the Vyvanse in water first, and mix it carefully, so you get a good saturation.

 

I think there's actually a pretty good pinned thread on that, on this board. Some people report that it's the capsules that exacerbate their stomache-pains, and that dissolving it in water, helped immensely.

[FocusPocus]

Anyone tried Guanfacine or Clonidine for this purpose?

[focus83]

Compare that to the DL ( concerta, Ritalin) -mixture: it INCREASES NOREPINEPHRINE 40(!) TIMES MORE than it increases Dopamine! 0_o
 

 

Do you have a source for that 40:1 claim?

 

Wikipedia says the reverse is true, i.e. Ritalin has a higher binding affinity for the DA transporter than for the NE transporter thereby increasing DA more than NE.

Edited by focus83, 17 August 2014 - 04:59 PM.

[jerrybusey]

One issue I had with Vyvanse is that I needed to eat regularly during the active life in order to keep the effects stable. It's easy to forget to eat while on amphetamines and certainly not always convenient to be constantly snacking. I also used fairly minuscule amounts (several beads out of a capsule) of dexamphetamine late in the day to combat the feeling of an extended slow motion crash. That tiny amount made a huge difference for me. Over time though it dead ends like all the other stimulants.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

Compare that to the DL ( concerta, Ritalin) -mixture: it INCREASES NOREPINEPHRINE 40(!) TIMES MORE than it increases Dopamine! 0_o
 

 

Do you have a source for that 40:1 claim?

 

Wikipedia says the reverse is true, i.e. Ritalin has a higher binding affinity for the DA transporter than for the NE transporter thereby increasing DA more than NE.

 

 

Actually, you seem to be right, I had completely misunderstood the values on the Binding Profile - I thought higher values was better, when in reality, it's worse. The lower the value, the better, apparently.

 

http://en.wikipedia....harmacodynamics
 

 

Compound
-----------------
d-methylphenidate
DAT: 139
NET: 408
Uptake DA: 28
Uptake NE: 46 

dl-methylphenidate
DAT: 105
NET: 1560
Uptake DA: 24
Uptake NE: 31

 

Are you supposed to read the uptake-column in the same way? Lower number is high affinity, higher number is lower affinity/level? So... let me see now... This means every enantiomer and racemic mix, increases DA more than it increases NE -levels?

If norepinephrine is the cause of anxiety on stims ( which it should be... it's fight/flight, while Dopamine is nothing but pure reward, and smooooooooooooooth (imho) motivation.), then I can see how Focalin ( d-meth) would be smoother - it seems to have less of an affinity for NE when it comes to uptake - yet the transporter-values for DAT and NET shows DL should be much MORE dopaminergic... hardly any NET-activity there, what with the 1560 -value for NET.

Yet the uptake-column shows lower NE than D-methylphenidate

 

Or have I misunderstood the values again? Help me out here - this is rather confusing, thinking in reverse.

 

But if all of this is correct... then why is Methylphenidate the KING of anxiety when it comes to stims? Even taking everything into consideration, the dopamine-action always appears to be much higher than the norepinephrine -action - shouldn't that lead to a more rewarding feeling when you partake of Methylphenidate? I should rather say that it is in general ALWAYS unpleasant, on nearly every dosing-level, even.

Yet Amphetamine is always, immensely pleasant, not at all like the PRESSURE you get from methylphenidate.

 

Help me out here... have I completely misunderstood the nature of these neuro-transmitters? Is dopamine not at all as pleasant as I thought, and Norepinephrine not at all as UN-pleasant as I previously believed?

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 17 August 2014 - 09:00 PM.

[FocusPocus]

I always thought Norepinephrine was the culprit too.

 

Eg: When you combine Ritalin and Galantamine, you get florid anxiety (n=1 (me)), which i believe is from the increase in NE that is caused by galantamine¹ too- thus together leading to very high NE levels.

 

1 http://jpet.aspetjou...3/1116.abstract

 

However, I've heard a few redditors who take Ritalin with Strattera, and the latter seems to help with the Ritalin anxiety. and Strattera is a NRI.

 

Very confusing, this Norepinephrine

Edited by FocusPocus, 17 August 2014 - 09:26 PM.

[FocusPocus]

Anyone tried Guanfacine or Clonidine for this purpose?

Sorry i should have read the thread better, considering its already been discussed.

 

Now that I read more into it, it seems like guanfacine is the best. nootropic, sedative, safe to mix with amphetamine and mph. I'll get to try it soon. drop my low dose mirtazapine for it.

Did you get hold of guanfacine? Real curious if it would be better than propranolol, since there are anecdotes of it stacking well with modafinil.

 

Propranolol

 

I tried propranolol at 10mg doses, doesnt last quite long.  What doses do you use and how long does it usually last? Do you use it with the Ritalin or only for the comedowns?

[focus83]

 

 

Compound
-----------------
d-methylphenidate
DAT: 139
NET: 408
Uptake DA: 28
Uptake NE: 46 

dl-methylphenidate
DAT: 105
NET: 1560
Uptake DA: 24
Uptake NE: 31

 

Are you supposed to read the uptake-column in the same way? Lower number is high affinity, higher number is lower affinity/level? So... let me see now... This means every enantiomer and racemic mix, increases DA more than it increases NE -levels?

If norepinephrine is the cause of anxiety on stims ( which it should be... it's fight/flight, while Dopamine is nothing but pure reward, and smooooooooooooooth (imho) motivation.), then I can see how Focalin ( d-meth) would be smoother - it seems to have less of an affinity for NE when it comes to uptake - yet the transporter-values for DAT and NET shows DL should be much MORE dopaminergic... hardly any NET-activity there, what with the 1560 -value for NET.

Yet the uptake-column shows lower NE than D-methylphenidate

 

Or have I misunderstood the values again? Help me out here - this is rather confusing, thinking in reverse.

 

But if all of this is correct... then why is Methylphenidate the KING of anxiety when it comes to stims? Even taking everything into consideration, the dopamine-action always appears to be much higher than the norepinephrine -action - shouldn't that lead to a more rewarding feeling when you partake of Methylphenidate? I should rather say that it is in general ALWAYS unpleasant, on nearly every dosing-level, even.

Yet Amphetamine is always, immensely pleasant, not at all like the PRESSURE you get from methylphenidate.

 

Help me out here... have I completely misunderstood the nature of these neuro-transmitters? Is dopamine not at all as pleasant as I thought, and Norepinephrine not at all as UN-pleasant as I previously believed?

 

 

Yes, when it comes to binding affinity lower values mean a stronger binding. Not sure what "Uptake DA" and "Update NE" exactely mean, if these are the resulting net increase of DA and NE in the synaptic cleft. Having the binding affinities for the transporter molecules should be enough to know how much DA or NE increase to expect.

 

It's a broad oversimplification to say that NE is anxiogenic and DA is smooth. You won't have much luck explaining the various mental effects of psychotopic drugs like that. Both can be anxiogenic, but NE is not necessarily the anxiogenic devil it's made out to be. For instance SNRI reuptake inhibitors have been successfully used to treat various anxiety disorders. DRIs like Amineptine, on the other hand, have anxiety and nervousness as common side effects. I don't even want to pretend I know the various mental effects of DA and NE and how to distinguish them, but these two examples just came to my mind.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

 

 

Compound
-----------------
d-methylphenidate
DAT: 139
NET: 408
Uptake DA: 28
Uptake NE: 46 

dl-methylphenidate
DAT: 105
NET: 1560
Uptake DA: 24
Uptake NE: 31

 

Are you supposed to read the uptake-column in the same way? Lower number is high affinity, higher number is lower affinity/level? So... let me see now... This means every enantiomer and racemic mix, increases DA more than it increases NE -levels?

If norepinephrine is the cause of anxiety on stims ( which it should be... it's fight/flight, while Dopamine is nothing but pure reward, and smooooooooooooooth (imho) motivation.), then I can see how Focalin ( d-meth) would be smoother - it seems to have less of an affinity for NE when it comes to uptake - yet the transporter-values for DAT and NET shows DL should be much MORE dopaminergic... hardly any NET-activity there, what with the 1560 -value for NET.

Yet the uptake-column shows lower NE than D-methylphenidate

 

Or have I misunderstood the values again? Help me out here - this is rather confusing, thinking in reverse.

 

But if all of this is correct... then why is Methylphenidate the KING of anxiety when it comes to stims? Even taking everything into consideration, the dopamine-action always appears to be much higher than the norepinephrine -action - shouldn't that lead to a more rewarding feeling when you partake of Methylphenidate? I should rather say that it is in general ALWAYS unpleasant, on nearly every dosing-level, even.

Yet Amphetamine is always, immensely pleasant, not at all like the PRESSURE you get from methylphenidate.

 

Help me out here... have I completely misunderstood the nature of these neuro-transmitters? Is dopamine not at all as pleasant as I thought, and Norepinephrine not at all as UN-pleasant as I previously believed?

 

 

Yes, when it comes to binding affinity lower values mean a stronger binding. Not sure what "Uptake DA" and "Update NE" exactely mean, if these are the resulting net increase of DA and NE in the synaptic cleft. Having the binding affinities for the transporter molecules should be enough to know how much DA or NE increase to expect.

 

It's a broad oversimplification to say that NE is anxiogenic and DA is smooth. You won't have much luck explaining the various mental effects of psychotopic drugs like that. Both can be anxiogenic, but NE is not necessarily the anxiogenic devil it's made out to be. For instance SNRI reuptake inhibitors have been successfully used to treat various anxiety disorders. DRIs like Amineptine, on the other hand, have anxiety and nervousness as common side effects. I don't even want to pretend I know the various mental effects of DA and NE and how to distinguish them, but these two examples just came to my mind.

 

 

Yeah, the Neuro-transmitters appear to be a lot more complicated than I first thought, now that I'm looking more into it. It depends on what section of the brain they're being released in, it would seem. They've got tons of effects, they help get signals across, but every section carries different information, which leads to different behaviours.

 

The Uptake-sections of the data-sheet is indeed rather perplexing - so you don't know either, if those are the resulting net increase, or what? If they truly are the resulting increase of Dopamine and Norepinephrine, then for some reason, Norepinephrine would still increase more than Dopamine, regardless of the transporter-affinity, yeah?

I wonder where I can find that info... the actual measurable increase. Since we don't know how to read those two columns, we can't say for sure if they contradict each other or not.

 

Still, let's go with a quick mental challenge here - if the two columns truly contradict each other, why would that be?

 

Why would the lesser affinity for the Norepinephrine -transporter still lead to more norepinephrine than Dopamine?

Could there be some unknown pharmacokinetics in place, that would result in this? I read a bit on the pharmacokinetics of Amphetamine, and it would appear as if the pharmacology and kinetics of Amphetamine is in reality a lot more complex than what science first believed, there's been some more new effects discovered fairly recently. And as far as I know, Methylphenidate hasn't been known or experimented with, for nearly as long, yeah?

Therefore, I say, it stands to reason that there might be a norepinephrinergic effect to Methylphenidate that we don't know of yet, something that has a secondary NE -increase.

 

Now, what on Earth this theoretical secondary effect might be, now that's a good question!

 

 

Btw, I was looking into Atomoxetine, since it's related to SNRI's, which you mentioned as effective against anxiety, and I also checked out Mirtazapine, which I have been treated with myself.
Mirtazapine actually causes short-term decrease in anxiety for me, but long-term it DEFINITELY increases anxiety for me - I get quite angry, and quite scared on it. The same appears to be true for others, while on Atomoxetine - a lot of people are reporting an increase in anxiety with long-term use.

Why is that, do you figure? I have this idea, that those of us that have adverse effects with these drugs, already have either increased norepinephrine -levels, or normalized norepinephrine levels - and even the slightest raise in NE will then eventually lead to anxiety.

 

But the nature of these neuro-transmitters aren't quite as simple as that, but it would be nice to be able to peg down certain mechanisms that increase anxiety - it would make a whole lot of drugs a whole lot more useful.

[Dichotohmy]

I haven't seen it mentioned much in my research, but I find that Tianeptine is an outstanding compliment to stimulant medication. Tianeptine is known as an "activating" antidepressant on it's own, one with no/very minor side effects, and has been shown in rat studies to cause release of dopamine in the PFC while at the same time modulating the effects of stress:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2995552/

 

Anxiety isn't an issue for me, stimulant use or not, but Tianeptine is actually mainly known as an effective anxiolytic. Personally, I find adding Tianeptine boosts the focus effects of stimulants while at the same time blunting the agitation and perception of nasty peripheral effects (blood pressure, heart rate) from stimulants.

Edited by Dichotohmy, 18 August 2014 - 07:50 PM.

[FocusPocus]

I haven't seen it mentioned much in my research, but I find that Tianeptine is an outstanding compliment to stimulant medication. Tianeptine is known as an "activating" antidepressant on it's own, one with no/very minor side effects, and has been shown in rat studies to cause release of dopamine in the PFC while at the same time modulating the effects of stress:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2995552/

 

Anxiety isn't an issue for me, stimulant use or not, but Tianeptine is actually mainly known as an effective anxiolytic. Personally, I find adding Tianeptine boosts the focus effects of stimulants while at the same time blunting the agitation and perception of nasty peripheral effects (blood pressure, heart rate) from stimulants.

 

Woa, its kind of eerie as i was just reading about tianeptine for the last half hour, and then logged in longecity and you post this.

 

SSri's make me apathetic, which has made me paranoid about modulating seratonin in general. How did it affect your cognition/memory?

 

Also found a post (n=1) :

 

http://www.longecity...e-side-effects/

 

Who knows, it could work for me.

 

 Could you recommend a dose just for anxiolytic effects SOS. I'm prone to mild hypomania too.

 

Edit: the more i research  this drug , the more intrigued i get - low cost anti depressant, anxiolytic nootropic without sedation, and low half life.(situational use too). Why isnt everyone using this?

Edited by FocusPocus, 19 August 2014 - 12:19 AM.

[serp777]

Interesting, well I take 1000mg of caffeine, 55mg of adderall, 80mg of strattera, 2 mg of tenex, and 150mg of effexor. i honestly prefer no benzos. I got tolerant over the years. 1.5-3g of ashwangdha with 750mg bacopa aint bad.

 

Incoming heart attack. What's with all the high dose stims here? Are you crazy? Also caffeinism much? 

[+] Exercise
[+] Sleep
[+] Diet
[+] NO CAFFEINE! This is a STRICT rule.
[+] If I was you, I would also avoid any other stimulants.
[+] Avoid repeated/extreme stress.
[+] Go to you're GP and have your general health (heart,bp,liver,etc) checked out...
[+] Ritalin

Why are you so colorful? Pride in the lack of closets lol? 

[barbelith42]

I won't go repeating the same above advice but diet, exercise, sleep, are huge. You need to keep your cortisol down too -- do things that make you happy and relaxed.

 

As far as pharmaceutical/nootropic intervention, what hasn't been mentioned is Selank -- 125-250mcg concurrent with Adderall or Caffeine really cut out the negative effects without the sedation or cognitive fog that occurs with benzodiazepenes -- if it doesn't slow you down yet, it still might do it; take the MINIMUM dosage only if necessary.

[Babychris]

I have found the answer. Buspar is the perfect tool to make the ritalin feel really pleasant !

[FocusPocus]

I have found the answer. Buspar is the perfect tool to make the ritalin feel really pleasant !

 

What dose of buspar and Ritalin did you take?

 

Did it take some days before Buspar started showing its effects?