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Making a transdermal choline patch, is it possible? It's a small molecule! Advice?

transdermal choline patch

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9 replies to this topic

#1 YOLF

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:44 PM


So piracetam tastes horrible, and choline sources may produce TMAO when absorbed through the gut, and I'd really like to remove any lipofuscin that might be aging/polluting my brain.

Others have pointed out potential problems with preparing it for injection, so how about a transdermal patch?

Added benefit would be continuous release.

#2 YOLF

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:26 AM

Hmmm... well the 3M transdermal product's specs for ideal properties are:

Daltons: <= 500 PASS 489 Daltons
Melting Point: <= 200C ????
Log P: 1-3 ????
Drug form: nonionic ????
Intended dose <= 10mgdaily FAIL! Need gram doses...

Are there better transdermal products for this kind of thing? Maybe something with a DMSO base but safer?

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#3 jadamgo

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 06:32 PM

I don't think DMSO would fix the problem of trying to get multiple grams of choline across the skin barrier. (Plus DMSO makes you smell terrible, like rotting garlic.) Also, choline contains a charged nitrogen, so it's always ionized. Even at a high pH the nitrogen atom retains that positive charge. The logP is -4.66, whereas your specified range for transdermal absorption above is from 1 to 3.

#4 YOLF

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 02:20 AM

Hmmm... so how else might someone safely take that much choline?

#5 jadamgo

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:12 PM

Just take low enough amounts of choline that TMAO isn't a significant problem. Lecithin and other similar compounds may be safer than the choline salts.

#6 YOLF

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 12:25 AM

I have lecithin granules, how much of this stuff are we talking? How much would I be taking, I take it is converted by an organ or in the blood?

#7 jadamgo

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 05:31 PM

A tablespoon per day ought to do the trick. There's really nothing good about taking massive doses of choline -- just take enough to fill ordinary nutritional needs. Lecithin granules are largely phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylserine, and those compounds are already present in every cell of the body because they make up the cell membrane. They'll be absorbed into the blood stream and incorporated into cell membranes throughout the body, including the nervous system where the phosphatidylcholine will be used to synthesize acetylcholine.

#8 YOLF

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:35 PM

I've only used the stuff once as part of another recipe and I remember too much of it will cause a loosening of the bowels. How much is too much in that regard?

#9 jadamgo

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:56 PM

That would probably only happen if you took multiple tablespoons per day, and also ate lots of fatty foods. Did that recipe include a lot of oil?

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#10 YOLF

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:06 AM

Nope, just the lecithin, a sonicator, and some other vitamins that could be lipid encapsulated for better absorbability. I'm not sure if it did what it said it would or not... But it tasted horrible!

Edited by cryonicsculture, 24 October 2013 - 02:07 AM.






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