20 replies to this topic

[Eruditus]

I already posted this in a noopept related thread but the morning after I felt it would actually be better to place it here seeing as it might get some more attention of the right people.

I have been combining noopept with the uridine stack lately. Seeing as I don't have any pure uridine available to me at the moment I had to improvise and purchase some spirulina from the health-shop; the stuff contains about 5% uridine and is chock-full of other essential phytonutrients not to mention one of the most bio-available sources of protein known to man. I combine this with krill omega 3 and some pretty potent vitamin e.

Now I have been having the most absurd interaction and for the life of me I cannot figure out what is going on but it's pretty damn awesome. First of all let me tell you my thirst and hunger have grown to legendary viking proportions, eating healthy meals twice the size I would normally eat and drinking between 4-6 liters water in a day. All the water just flushes right though me and if I don't get the water or the food I need I can feel the nootropic effects of both fading until I either get a numb head ache or feel like I would usually do without taking anything. The thirst can be a slight bother however because it has gotten to the point where I need to have at least two glasses every hour or risk getting dried out lips and feeling an uncomfortable sensation somewhere around the left of my diaphragm.

Now for the positives of this combo. My skin has gone so healthy smooth like a babies skin; reaaally amazed me how unblemished it was and this happened very rapidly within just 3 days of starting on this combination. My Keratosis Pilaris seems to be clearing up too, but it's going to take at least another week to tell if it's going to go into some form of full remission (I did not even know this was possible??). Whereas before I was dosing 10mg twice a day on the noopept, this has now become overkill and I find that if I take 6 grams of spirulina throughout the day, then I will only need 10mg in the morning around 8 or 9 am whith effects lasting me well into the night. The fat distribution on my body has changed dramatically. I have always been a skinny guy with quite a bit of fat on my thighs this is not the case anymore; the layer of fat on my thighs can't be thicker then a centimeter or two anymore. And I'm also losing weight (about 2kgs in the past week), but I'm guessing it's just fat cause I'm not getting any weaker at all, in fact my endurance and strength have been radically increasing. Also Strangely enough my resistance to extreme heat is getting epic, I can literally toss meat and potatoes around in the pan with my bare hands without getting burned (WTF?). My eye bags have completely dissipated. And I'm sure there's a few others I just can't think of listing right now.

I think it might be smart to reduce the total daily spirulina dose from 6g to 3g. I base this on the fact that the stimulant effects seem to be growing stronger and stronger every day, today I almost felt like I was on a perpetual amphetamine high that just did not have a crash or comedown besides it subsiding without the necessary caloric intake and hydration.

Anybody have a clue dafuq is going on in my body; whether it's actually healthy or if I'm going to be cutting my life-time in half by sending my body into this sort of super-drive? Thank you in advance for taking the time to read and trying to understand this peculiar case, I know I can't make heads or tails of it

[theconomist]

Could you post the brand name of the spirulina that you bought? Or a picture of the package.
Also are you taking nothing BUT noopept and spirulina?

[Eruditus]

At the time besides morning dose of noopept I had been taking 6 grams Marcus Rohrer Spirulina equally spread out three ways with each meal. Puritans pride item no 77. (Multivitamin with major and trace minerals) once in the morning. Vitamine E 250iu x2 with lunch and dinner. Krill omega 3, physalis brand name (pretty reputable vendor, like almost all of these guys their stuff). Today I have not taken any spirulina, understanding that it would be silly to continue doing so as I had nothing for the extra stimulation to be put to use on. I would say my water retention is starting to normalize again, still going through almost 3 litres. The excessive thirst and frequent urination did spike once more today after I had myself a cup of green tea in the evening, maybe that tells you anything? I am a bit concerned frankly that however great this combination may seem, it is too high maintenance with all the drinking and urinating, but may also present a potential health risk to my kidneys, bladder or urinary tract.

[Absent]

How has this spirulina effected your cognition, and have you tried going a few days with only taking spirulina and no other supplements?

[Eruditus]

First and foremost I was on noopept 11 days prior adding spirulina to the stack, this is why I am blatantly sure it is caused by some interaction. Also important to note is that as soon as I dropped the spirulina some of the more radical health benefits started to revert to their usual states. My skin has grown a little drier and my water retention, while now two days off of spirulina, has definitely normalized. I am no longer near dying for a glass of water in the morning when I wake up :p.

Dropping noopept, to investigate the sole benefits of spirulina is not of particular interest to me at this point as I am working on enhancing my personal awareness and learning as much as possible during the time period I am going to be using this wonder drug, which will be at least a good two months straight if I keep getting the benefits that long.

The cognitive effects were quite exhilarating and simultaneously hard to put into practical applications. Like I said I still felt the cognitive clairvoyance and memory boost the noopept gave, yet the energy boost of both substances synergised and was at least double that of only of noopept. There were times specifically 2 to 3 hours after taking a spirulina dose I would have so much wild near uncontrollable appetite to do things that were more stimulating than your standard sedentiary-lifestyle-activities; I would either have to go for walks, talk to my parents non-stop about everything or participate in some intellectual challenge like chess, checkers, you name it and I was becoming a wizard in it. The sole issue here was that normal activities like watching some tv programs with the family was no longer viable entertainment for me. The sheer idiocy and terrible quality of most contemporary tv programs and movies did nothing but bore me and disgust me in their' perverse distortion of reality.

Hope this answers your question a bit.

[8bitmore]

Thanks for writing up your experience, one never knows, unknown synergies are definitely possibly with many drugs/supplements; question is whether your experience can be replicated by others! Who's your source for noopept?

Also: "The sole issue here was that normal activities like watching some tv programs with the family was no longer viable entertainment for me. The sheer idiocy and terrible quality of most contemporary tv programs and movies did nothing but bore me and disgust me in their' perverse distortion of reality." - this is absolutely normal reaction when one is well/"in-balance" in oneself, its been years since I owned a TV, I relax (and entertain myself) far better with a book these days..

[Eruditus]

Dutch online smartshop registered at denkbeter.nl and what you say of books is bang on. I've always been an avid fantasy reader like Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time and have lately been engulfed in the Game of Throne saga, reading is almost like slipping into a trance right now, I will start and not be able to get distracted by anything besides propelling through each and every single line of text at speeds twice my ordinary capacity. The vivid imagery that flows from the words into my mind contains more creative and emotive feel then any tv show could ever hope to induce.

[Galaxyshock]

Perhaps it's the high amount of iodine stimulating your thyroid

[Eruditus]

Perhaps it's the high amount of iodine stimulating your thyroid

Doubt it could be hyperthyroidism. No trembling, sweating or anxiety. Resting heartrate remains a steady 70-80 in the morning dropping to 60-70 by nightfall. Also I'm experiencing the exact opposite of increased sensitivity to heat. So maybe my thyroid has become less active instead, yet this would still not explain how I'm losing weight then.

[jadamgo]

Updates on this? I'm very intrigued!

[NFP]

Updates on this? I'm very intrigued!

same here. my dad would force me to drink this as a little kid, i was too young to remember any benefits though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[Eruditus]

Continued taking the spirulina on a daily basis but the initial psycho stimulant effects have strongly lessened since the early days. It seems to me that there may be a connection to sodium levels. I deduced this from the fact that after spending the weekend with my family who unfortunately eat foods high in salt; frozen vegetables and meats in marinade among other things. After just 3 meals, my eyebags had returned full force, my skin had gone drier and I felt myself slip into a more irritable mood. The frequent urination and increased thirst was also no longer prevalent. I am now at this time attempting to flush the sodium from my body by drinking excessive amounts of water and upping the spirulina dose (seems like spirulina was the initial trigger for me to start flushing water out like mad so maybe an increased dose will help to trigger this again) ... The worst part however is when I told them I no longer wanted to eat unhealthy meals high in salts they just kind of rubbed it off as a paranoid health-obsessive fancy... It seems to me the moment you point out that someone else's habits are no longer good enough for yourself you are insulting them because everyone would like to believe they place their health in the highest esteem; while we all know there are healthy people and lazy people who rationalize the everything in moderation theory to the point where it doesn't matter jack-shit anymore.

Also I'm cycling off of noopept for now, I am 100% certain the effects are diminishing and I would rather cycle onto some herbals like ashwaganda, bacopa monnieri and ginkgo biloba with maybe some ALCAR for a month before continuing consuming anymore noopept. If anyone knows anymore advisable additions to this stack to minimize the reduced intellect from noopept cessation these suggestions would be welcome.

Edited by Eruditus, 20 October 2013 - 03:40 PM.

[jadamgo]

It seems to me the moment you point out that someone else's habits are no longer good enough for yourself you are insulting them

Yes, that can be a problem with insecure people, they're usually hypersensitive to perceived or imagined condescension.

The combination of stimulation, laserlike focus, increased urination and thirst, and tolerance to all these effects that develops over a few days to weeks makes me wonder if spirulina contains a dopaminergic agent. Dopamine would cause all these things.

[Eruditus]

Well according to the wiki page on spirulina, it contains both phenylalanine at 81mg per 6g and tyrosine at 75mg per 6g. These still seem like they would be too minuscule quantities to amount to such a strong reaction.

[8bitmore]

Well according to the wiki page on spirulina, it contains both phenylalanine at 81mg per 6g and tyrosine at 75mg per 6g. These still seem like they would be too minuscule quantities to amount to such a strong reaction.

What you experienced first on was likely a particular type of synergy between many different compounds within the spirulina complex that interacted with a particular state in your body (possibly correcting a deficiency in the process). Since the effect has trailed off for you this is the most likely explanation as far as I can see. Also, as to the thirst I see that Spirulina itself contains almost 10% salt so.. that's 600mg a day with your 6 gram dose!

[BlueCloud]

I have been taking Spirulina for three days now ( 6 grams at once before breakfast) , and while it hasn't turned me into Superman ( or even Batman ), it does seem to give a noticeable push in energy , both physical and mental, in a very smooth and natural way ( not the "wired" kind of energy). It's not huge , but definitely very noticeable. My mood has been somewhat brighter than usual, and it didn't worsen my sleep in any way, perhaps even made it better and deeper ( most stuff that feels energetic usually give me more insomnia).

I don't think this is due to the phenylalanine/tyrosine content, it's too small as Eruditus said, and I usually need to take at least 2 Grams of Tyrosine to feel anything from it
If this is sustainable and not just a fluke, I could see myself taking it on a regular basis/long-term.

[Eruditus]

I am 99% sure that it's iodine pushing thyroid activity, thus leading to a more dramatic increase in energy the greater a dietary deficiency in iodine if present + the weight loss I experienced I can only attribute to somehow entering a facilitated at least partially ketogenic state; which to me seeing as how spirulina is a detoxifier and can also purportedly causes weight loss has its effects. Ketosis would also explain my extreme thirst due to electrolyte imbalances.

[Absent]

I am 99% sure that it's iodine pushing thyroid activity, thus leading to a more dramatic increase in energy the greater a dietary deficiency in iodine if present + the weight loss I experienced I can only attribute to somehow entering a facilitated at least partially ketogenic state; which to me seeing as how spirulina is a detoxifier and can also purportedly causes weight loss has its effects. Ketosis would also explain my extreme thirst due to electrolyte imbalances.

Interesting. For like a few weeks I had forgotten what this stuff(Spirulina) was called and searching for the thread, and luckily you posted about it. Then you also happen to mention the Iodine energy boost.

Would you mind contributing over at my Iodine thread? http://www.longecity..._90#entry627799

A lot of people are insisting that Iodine energy related boosts and all associated physical phenomena of elevated thyroid hormone are nothing more than a placebo effect.

Sorry if this seems offtopic!

[niner]

I am 99% sure that it's iodine pushing thyroid activity, thus leading to a more dramatic increase in energy the greater a dietary deficiency in iodine if present + the weight loss I experienced I can only attribute to somehow entering a facilitated at least partially ketogenic state; which to me seeing as how spirulina is a detoxifier and can also purportedly causes weight loss has its effects. Ketosis would also explain my extreme thirst due to electrolyte imbalances.

Iodine might be what's doing it. This (not particularly authoritative) site says a serving of spirulina can range from 16 mcg to 15 mg Iodine. That's a pretty wide range, but at the high end is enough to elicit at least some of your symptoms.
I doubt that you're in ketosis, however, unless you are super low carb.

[Eruditus]

Nah but I really don't see any other way to spontaneously burn off 5kg of fat in a week and not feel like all your energy is being sucked up. Maybe I was sort of in a fasting a state because looking at my eating pattern then it was limited to only low carb healthy options. No potatoes and pasta and such. And counting my average calories I was probably hovering around the 1200-1500 marks, but at the time I was definitely eating some servings of carb rich fruit which is why I find it so confusing and I think maybe Iodine somehow facilitated this ketogenic state at least for a while.

I've actually started up on a ketogenic diet these past two weeks and strangely enough it gave the last push for my keratosis pilaris to start clearing up again much more so then just taking the spirulina. No more weight loss this time though, storing up at least 300g of fats a day and I have to say this feels great and a much like my initial reaction to spirulina was. Also there is a link between iodine deficiency and increased insulin resistance which doesn't necessarily revers means it can induce ketosis, but it is as the other end of the metabolic scale if insulin production could be lowered dramatically enough.

[LexLux]

There have been issues with spirulina supplements being contaminated with blue-green aglae.

Food Chem Toxicol. 2009 Sep;47(9):2189-95. Epub 2009 Jun 9.First detection of anatoxin-a in human and animal dietary supplements containing cyanobacteria.Rellán S, Osswald J, Saker M, Gago-Martinez A, Vasconcelos V.

Y. Jiang, P. Xie, J. Chen, and G. Liang. Detection of the hepatotoxic microcystins in 36 kinds of cyanobacteria spirulina food products in china. Food Addit Contam Part A Chem Anal Control Expo Risk Assess, 25(7):885-894, 2008.

This is hardly surprising since they are both essentially pond scum and if you've ever kept a planted or marine aquarium you know how easily cyanobacteria can swamp entire set-ups.

Why is this an issue? Because cayano bacteria produce toxins that affect the nervous system and liver:


Cox PA, Banack SA, Murch SJ, Rasmussen U, Tien G, Bidigare RR, Metcalf JS, Morrison LF, Codd GA, Bergman B. Diverse taxa of cyanobacteria produce beta-N-methylamino-L-alanine, a neurotoxic amino acid. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2005 Apr 5;102(14):5074-8. Epub 2005 Apr 4.

Torres-Duran PV, Ferreira-Hermosillo A, Juarez-Oropeza MA. Antihyperlipemic and antihypertensive effects of Spirulina maxima in an open sample of Mexican population: a preliminary report. Lipids Health Dis. 2007 Nov 26;6:33.

Cingi C, Conk-Dalay M, Cakli H, Bal C. The effects of spirulina on allergic rhinitis. Eur Arch Otorhinolaryngol. 2008 Oct;265(10):1219-23. Epub 2008 Mar 15.

Mazokopakis EE, Karefilakis CM, Tsartsalis AN, Milkas AN, Ganotakis ES. Acute rhabdomyolysis caused by Spirulina (Arthrospira platensis). Phytomedicine. 2008 Jun;15(6-7):525-7. Epub 2008 Apr 22.

It has even been shown to cause infant seizures where a mother uses spirulina:

G. Moulis, A. Batz, G. Durrieu, C. Viard, S. Decramer, J.-L. Montastruc. Severe neonatal hypercalcemia related to maternal exposure to nutritional supplement containing Spirulina. Eur. J. Clin. Pharmacol. 2012 68(2):221 - 222

R. J. Marles, M. L. Barrett, J. Barnes, M. L. Chavez, P. Gardiner, R. Ko, G. B. Mahady, T. L. Dog, N. D. Sarma, G. I. Giancaspro, M. Sharaf, J. Griffiths. United States pharmacopeia safety evaluation of spirulina. Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr 2011 51(7):593 - 604

I do not mean to say that this will happen to you with your supplement, but it is definitely something to consider when supplementing spirulina.

Edited by LexLux, 21 February 2014 - 06:31 AM.