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Bupropion or Tianeptine?

bupropion tianeptine

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#61 deeptrance

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:35 PM

I have been on the Moclobemide for 1 day shy of 3 weeks.I presume from what you said that after one more week I should increase the dosage.

Truth be told,my fragile mental state has somewhat started to stabilize a little,so that is a tiny bit promising.
But there is no real increase in mood or depression and social anxiety since 4 days ago,a slight bit yes,but it seems like a superficial increase.


Atropy, are you still around? I'd like to see an update on how things are going.

#62 Atropy

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:18 AM

I have experienced what I believe are mixed states whilst on Moclobemide recently,I hate them.They have since dissapeared but offcourse who knows if they will come back.I feel more stabilized now.

I requested a low dose atypical anti-psychotic from my shrink but he did not agree.He would rather continue prescribing benzos for sleep.I cant deal with close minded people like that.

We do however agree,and I am convinced that I have Obsessive compulsive personality disorder with many symptoms(maby all I think for DPD) from the other cluster c personality disorders,namely APD and DPD.

I have many symptoms from cluster B as well,APD and BPD.

I am weaning myself of the benzo's and looking for OTC substitutes.
I ordered some lithium aspartate and Im gonna experiment with low dosages,under 5mg elemental.I know its frowned upon,but what is my alternative.

I started CILTEP for memory and I will start L-theanine soon.Later I will add melatonin and low dosage tryptophan and b6 cause I cant sleep without something,and that shit is better than benzos.

25mg Trazodone,.5mg benzo's,450mg Moclo.

Edited by Atropy, 18 December 2013 - 02:18 AM.


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#63 nowayout

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 12:55 PM

IME antipsychotics even at low doses are really serious drugs with the potential to mess you up big time, and bad news for just depression. I am not surprised your shrink prefers benzos to them as a lesser evil. I would too.
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#64 Atropy

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 01:16 PM

IME antipsychotics even at low doses are really serious drugs with the potential to mess you up big time, and bad news for just depression. I am not surprised your shrink prefers benzos to them as a lesser evil. I would too.


Really.I did'nt realise it was that bad.Im quite sensitive when it comes to meds.Im surprised that one of the most prescribed drugs could possibly cause serious permanent effects at low dosages.I know you didnt say that but Im inferring it.

Now I feel a little reasurred that I am not missing out.Was seriously considering changing Docs.

In other news,I am tapering off the xanax from 0.5mg to 0.25mg and possibly stay at the same dosage of trazodone.

big difference between .5mg and .25mg.Also abit of tolerance has set in.

I am experiencing insomnia and am using some supplements I mentioned before but it is not as effective as the xanax.

Also,since lowering the dosage of xanax my OCPD is getting worse.worse. Noticeably worse,cant get anything done.

Insomnia is partly due to the insomnia brought on by the MOclobemide and also I have general insomnia.

My main aim is to get off the xanax right now,finding a suitable substiitute otc has been hard.

Ill be getting some lithium asp, soon and maby that ll help abit.I dont feel comfortable using xanax but something in the back of my mind is telling me the rightt thing is to keep on the xanax.

Edited by Atropy, 19 December 2013 - 01:23 PM.


#65 nowayout

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 05:18 PM

I have to stress that remark was just based on my experience with low dose seroquel for sleep. It made me feel I was losing my mind, gave me muscle spasms and bad apnea with consequent panic (since I felt I was going to suffocate if I let myself fall asleep) at night, and terrible shortness of breath during the day.
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#66 Atropy

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 12:19 PM

So,I have been on Lexapro for about 6 months.At first it made me very tired all day,and when I tried to do any activity or even excercise I would get this weakness and shakiness in my baody,mostly my hands.

 

It did help to alleviate depression when I worked up to 10 miligrams,but I was unable to excercise as frequently or with the intensity I used to due to just physically not being able to a point.Insomnia or was also a side effect.But for about a month or so things werent too bad,I was thinking of upping my dosage because I was able to focus and get things done,study a little and so on.I wasnt big,but it was very noticeable for me.But that changed slowly.

 

recently I started to get insomnia worse,and also My energy levels were extremely low.Small things would exhaust me,I could'nt think,I needed allot of rest  after a very little activity and the insomnia was much worse,a terrible combination.

 

I went to get my thyroid tested,and my T3 was below normal and Free T4 was 50% of normal(normal is 0.82 upward)

TSH was normal.

 

Diagnosis-Hypothyroid.

 

Now,since that test I felt worse,like a zombie,my memory is terrible,can't deal with anything.I believe I have low cortisol too,by my symptoms.

 

I believe I have had adrenal issues for years,how long I dont know.But for the last few years I probably had Higg cortisol,but now its low cortisol.And I have to think my whole situation was exacerbated by this SSRI.Let me explain my theory.

 

 

I had an issue with adrenals before,after I exercised I wouldn't be able to sleep,especially good cardio. 

I believe the anti-depressants imipramine has stopped its effectiveness,then I switched to this ssri which only hid the problem for a while and set me up for a bigger crash.

My problems are not only depression,anxiety etc,but also now thyroid and adrenal.

 

Here is my reasoning,if you want sources I can look again,but the studies are there.

 

SSRIS stimulate the immune system for most people(in ways not fully understood yet),but in some people it overstimulated the immune system and causes autoimmune symptoms.Case in point,I recently found out I have Tinea versicolor,never had it before

Its a symptom of immune problems.

Also,I got sick 3 times in 6 months on this ssri.I only get sick 1-2 times a year 

 

SSRIS supposedly correct HPA axis problems.I'm not sure why this hasn't happened for me.Instead it seems it may have stimulated it when it was weak.

 

SSRIS can lower thyroid function.In my case yes,it seems to have done so.I tried to take Thyroid gladular for a few days and felt nothing or worse depending on the dosage.

 

The adrenals need to be fixed before the thyroid can be helped.Trying to help the Thyroid with gladulars can make you worse by stressing the Adrenals further.

 

Now I'm in a  pickle,once again.

 

My symptoms are constant insomnia,barely any energy to do anything.Can't sleep even when tired.My appetite has decreased,sex drive is gone,food is digested very very slowly if at all.

 

If I slow/stop down the meds depression etc comes back with a vengence.But I can slowly restore HPA-Axis functioning.

 

I was thinking of adrenal cortex or even pregnelonone short term but those things are just band aids that cause a loop that lowers my bodies ability to produce these hormones,I think.

 

This is not good,performance at work is pathetic.

 

Trazodone for sleep doesnt work as well anymore,in fact all supps are not that great for sleep.

 

My only option right now is to reduce dosage of ssri to 7.5mg and take it easy for abit until I have a backup plan.I dont know what to do.I know getting a cortisol test is tops,but its expensive and I need to be off ssris for the test to be accurate.

 

My ideas are to go back to trying natural stuff,which largely doesnt work.

Things I havent tried are ST.John wort(sun is not good for eyes or skin on this),tho I dont think its powerful enough for me.It might help in combination with tryptophan and 5htp,but its not going to help as muc

 

 

I take fish oil

wheatgrass

zinc mag b6

avoid goitrogens

Stabilium(Garum)

b5 

kelp

 

trazodone

 

 

Anyone got any advice?Psychiatrists will tell me there's nothing wrong,the doc will tell me go on thyroid meds.I can't trust their judgement at all.A bunch of pill pushers they are.

 

 



#67 Flex

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:14 PM

Background

To give you an idea of my life,I have never had a girlfriend,and I'm 30.
I have never had any real friends or deep meaningful relationships with people.I have never been able to function on that level.
I have always been introverted ,and I still need alot of time by myself.

I am stressed very easily.I dwell on trivial things that other people barely acknowledge.I make mountains out of molehills.
I have a hard time making even small decisions.I overanalize things and its hard for me not to do so.
I have allot of work to do but it seems impossible without meds.

-----------------------

 

Boy, You remeber me of my self.

My brother calls me sometimes Monk because of my over-analyting stuff and beeing too concerned. lol

 

I have sleeping problems as well.

On "good" days I can be about 36 hours awake not to falling asleep.

I abused Cannabis in my adolescence untill 19 and with stop´s and go´s finnaly ended at age 27.

My sleep problems started at age 22 accompanied with concetration problems and depressions.

 

Curious thing is that since I work only Nightshift for about 6 months, my body is more prone to regular sleep time

and at the beginning of vacations, I sometimes even dont need to take anything unless sometimes a bit valerian extract

 

- Trazodone doesnt work for me as well. even, as far as I remember, at 200mg.

And makes me very anxious when wearing off the next day.

Curiously I get improvements in cognition at the 3´rd day after consumption

 

I´ve tried Valdoxan, the Melatonine agonist. It was just a slight improvement, but with a daytime sleepiness and distrupted sleep.

 

The current thing that I use for sleep is Mitrazepin, it inhibits 5-ht2a/c and Adrenergic a2(Inhibition of this one,increases Adrenaline) among other receptors .

Its in some regards good against anxiety, but its a double sided sword for sleep.

I can fall asleep and do sleep through( in contrast to Quentiapine) but during the day and evening I get somewhat

like a adrenergic overturn accompained with bruxism, so a tensed jaw, and can´t all the more due this fall asleep naturally.

My dosage is depending on the manufacturer about 45-90mg. I guess the Galenic formulation is blamed for.

 

One thing:

I´ve tried once for a short period Risperdal.

It was the horror. I turned overnight cognitively & etc to a senior ! My thoughts were somehow faster but I couldnt process them, hard to explain: they were kind of whirring in a loop :|?  and it took 2 Years to be the same again

 

 


Edited by Flex, 18 June 2014 - 01:19 PM.


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#68 Atropy

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 04:09 AM

Ever since lowering my dosage from 10mg Lexapro there was an immediate feeling of relief from exhaustion, sleep also improved. On 10 mg Lexapro my test results were as follows T3-0.49ng/ml  Free T4-0.47ng/dl  TSH-3.31ulU/ml

 

At the 5mg mark I took another hypothyroid test and it came back normal(by the old medical definition of hypothyroid).Results were Free T4-1.21 ng/dL TSH-3.74ulU/ml.By the new definition I was still abit Hypo on the second test. The hypo scale has changed from TSH  0.5 to 5.0 range to Tsh 0.3 to 3.0 according to AACE.

 

Now I am on 3.5mg and depressive thoughts,anxiety,OCPD symptoms are stronger.I can think, I am extremely quiet in social stings. I understand the reasons for that are due to my diagnosis’s.(self diagnosed.)

But I noticed that my physical endurance hasn’t jumped back to where it should have after lowering the dosage. I cant get off the medication because I fear a probable deep depressive episode,I can smell it coming, so I would like another option before I consider lowering it furthur.

 

I know that Hypothyroid and depression symptoms are similar but I feel there is definitely a difference between the 2, unless my depression evolved, which I doubt.

 

Granted, before I tried moclobemide,I had solid symptoms of hypo when coming off piracetam(1 month) and imipramine(few years.Then moclobemide messed me up too,very stimulating.After a month of Piracetam I first noticed what I believe was either low adrenals or hypothyroidism.I think Piracetam kicked it off for me.Then moclobemide nailed my HPA too I believe.Then Lexapro pushed it further.

 

I really want to find the underlying cause of my biological problems.I know it includes Depression,OCPD and Social anxiety,Co-narcissism.

But surely there must be a hypothyroid or low adrenal problem as well which I want to address so it doesn’t come back later to bite me harder.

 

I can try thyroxine and SSRIS together, but if I am not hypothyroid, but have low adrenal function it will worsen the adrenal problem. If I am hypothyroid it could be A good treatment,but maby the ssris are making me hypothyroid. It could be doing this by over stimulating the immune system and stressing the adrenals.

Or I could go back on imipramine and Thyroxine.

I had bad insomnia on Lexapro,lost 14 pounds rapidly while on 10mg and haven’t put the weight back on yet.Hashimotos is negative.

 

Unfortunately doctors I have seen are really of no use to me .Its extremely hard to self diagnose without spending allot of money.

 

My next step is to rule out adrenal insufficiency by getting a saliva cortisol test.Its expensive so I was wondering if its worth getting, because I can get one from the sopital but it it’s the blood test.

I am currently also using Lions mane which is helping abit.

 

Also,I suggested Tianeptine as a treatment to my shrink and he said that it is useless,he wanted me to try another ssri,but I am very schepticalof him and SSRIS until I can get more input and info.


Edited by Atropy, 14 September 2014 - 04:17 AM.






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