32 replies to this topic

[Jochen]

I am looking for feedback / updates / remarks on the better baby protocol.
My wife are expecting (still quite early – 8 weeks far) and we want to optimise our baby’s development and cognitive function.

This information is derived from Lana and Dave Asprey's Better Baby Book http://www.betterbabybook.com

Supplements:

• Folic acid
  
  • 800 mg/day at least
• Vitamin E
  
  • 400-800 IU
• C
  
  • 1 gram capsules (with or without bioflavonoids)
• Probiotics
  
  • They recommend http://www.gardenoflife.com/ProductsforLife/DigestiveHealth/PrimalDefensesupsup/tabid/638/Default.aspx
    
  • I am not sure as it contains Bacillus subtilis
    
  • Reason why this might be a concern is covered here http://forum.bulletproofexec.com/index.php?/topic/2306-probiotics-where-did-they-go-and-a-few-basic-questions

[*]Vitamin D-3 (cholecalciferol)

• Test levels before (needs to be between 50-80 ng/ml)
• If not supplement with 2000-8000 IU’s per day (does not equal mg!)

[*]Multivitamins

• http://www.gardenoflife.com/Products-for-Life/Living-Nutrients/Living-Multi.aspx

[*]Iodine

• Test your levels first
• Lugol’s 2 tiny drops in large glass of water
• Careful to not overdose --> highly toxic

[*]L-Glutamine

• 1 Ts per day in the morning

[*]D-Ribose

• 1 scoop in the morning

[*]Collagen
[*]Krill Oil
[/list]Antioxidants

• CoQ10 / Ubiquinol
• Liposomal Glutathione

Brain Nutrients

• Alpha GPC
• Glutamine
• Acetyl-L-Carnitine (ALC)
• Phosphatidylserine (PS)
  
• Sunflower lecithin

Hormones & Pharmaceuticals

• Progesterone
  
  • Needs to be bio-identical
• Deprenyl
  
  • Liquid Deprenyl Citrate (LDC)
  • 2 mgs/ day during second / third semester
• Oxiracetam

No brain supplements with:

• Gingko Biloba
• Vinpocetine
• Huperzine A
• DMAE

Any remarks, optimisations, additions, updates, feedback?

Thanks in advance!

[Q did it!]

Have you looked into Mr Happy's stack http://www.longecity...ne-uridine-dha/ I would summarize it but 5 hat has already been done on the first post. Near the end of the thread is where Mr Happy's baby is talked about. There is ton of information in this thread but a good skim should reveal the desired info. Here is a summery he wrote, Mr Happy, up as a reply to a question. There is more detail further back in the thread about its effects on developing babies, it need be note Mr happy Nd his wife are vegan so that means no gluten or casein (casino is in breast milk). Dave as per has written/Podcast ed about this #61.





Well, since I never found time to blog about it, here's an update:

She started rolling over and trying to crawl at 3 weeks. Good muscle tone and already holding her head up.

Started appreciating art at 3 weeks - likes to be carried around our place looking at paintings and indicates when she want to move to the next one by leaning at the one she wants. Complains if you go to the wrong one. Originally preferred paintings with high contrasts, now likes more colourful work.

Loves music, unless it's 'bad' and then she lets you know to change it. Likes Vivaldi and Mozart and a lot of modern stuff.

Started talking, in context, at 5 weeks: Mum, dad, hug, hello, yes, boob, mama and thank you (which sounds like 'ankoo', without teeth.)

Favourite words are hello, mum and boob. The latter 2 when she wants to be fed.

Great coordination, aim and spatial awareness. She 'owns' the mobile when she is under it.

Started doing squats and trying to walk around 9 weeks. Not there yet - balance is the issue.

Started trying to sing at 11 weeks - joins in with mum whenever she sings something she likes.

Great sense of humour and lots of non-verbal communication, too. The smiles and baby-giggles are heart melting.

Doesn't cry much - maybe 3-5 minutes out of a day, although she started teething at 12 weeks, so that changed a bit until we helped her manage it, by showing her our teeth, so she understood what was happening and getting her to gum down on a strip of capsicum to numb the pain.

As I'm writing this, her mum is holding her up to the electric piano and she's making an unholy din.





8 sent to this comment my phone so I hope it's not a mess.

[tunt01]

I've had other people come to me w/ Dave Asprey's bulletproof "stuff" and I've found a good deal it to be a bunch of pseudo-scientific nonsense. Beware of Dave Asprey. He's not a doctor; he's not a scientist. I've not reviewed everything he's done/written/said, but as far as I can tell he is a huckster selling a coffee on a blog.

[blood]

Are these supplements for you or your partner? Or, god forbid, your baby?

What's the reasoning behind the ribose? Hasn't that substance come under some suspicion recently?

The suggested multi would appear to be inappropriate. I would have thought that preparing for a baby is a time when the mother probably does want to consider supplementing iron. Why not take a multi where the formulation has at least to some extent been guided by the research? One of the better prenatal multis:
http://www.thorne.co...lth/prd~VMP.jsp
(One problem with the Thorne prenatal is the 2 mg copper per daily serve. Perhaps a better solution would be Thorne's basic nutrients without copper & iron, plus some additional iron in the form of iron picolinate).

Edited by blood, 26 October 2013 - 03:24 AM.

[zorba990]

Are these supplements for you or your partner? Or, god forbid, your baby?

What's the reasoning behind the ribose? Hasn't that substance come under some suspicion recently?

The suggested multi would appear to be inappropriate. I would have thought that preparing for a baby is the one time you probably do want to be supplementing iron. Why not take a multi where the formulation has at least to some extent been guided by the research? One of the better prenatal multis:
http://www.thorne.co...lth/prd~VMP.jsp
(One problem with the Thorne prenatal is the 2 mg copper per daily serve. Perhaps a better solution would be Thorne's basic nutrients without copper & iron, plus some additional iron in the form of iron picolinate).

Lactoferrin (not apolactoferrin) has been shown to be better tolerated as an iron anemia preventative than standard iron sulfate (not sure if it beats picolinate)
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16936810

Oral administration of lactoferrin increases hemoglobin and total serum iron in pregnant women.

Paesano R, Torcia F, Berlutti F, Pacifici E, Ebano V, Moscarini M, Valenti P.

Source

Department of Obstetrician and Gynecology, University of Rome La Sapienza, Via di Grottarossa 1035, 00189 Roma, Italy.

Abstract


Iron deficiency anemia (IDA) during pregnancy continues to be of world-wide concern. IDA is a risk factor for preterm delivery and subsequent low birth weight, and possibly for poor neonatal health. Iron supplementation in pregnancy is a widely recommended practice, yet intervention programs have met with many controversies. In our study, 300 women at different trimesters of pregnancy were enrolled in a trial of oral administration of ferrous sulfate (520 mg once a day) or 30% iron-saturated bovine lactoferrin (bLf) (100 mg twice a day). Pregnant women refusing treatment represented the control group. In this group hemoglobin and total serum iron values measured after 30 d without treatment decreased significantly, especially in women at 18-31 weeks of pregnancy. In contrast, after 30 d of oral administration of bLf, hemoglobin and total serum iron values increased and to a greater extent than those observed in women treated orally for 30 d with ferrous sulfate, independently of the trimester of pregnancy. Unlike ferrous sulfate, bLf did not result in any side effects. These findings lead us to hypothesize that lactoferrin could influence iron homeostasis directly or through other proteins involved in iron transport out of the intestinal cells into the blood.

Edited by zorba990, 26 October 2013 - 03:29 AM.

[Jochen]

I've had other people come to me w/ Dave Asprey's bulletproof "stuff" and I've found a good deal it to be a bunch of pseudo-scientific nonsense. Beware of Dave Asprey. He's not a doctor; he's not a scientist. I've not reviewed everything he's done/written/said, but as far as I can tell he is a huckster selling a coffee on a blog.

Thanks for the honest and direct feedback! This is why I love this forum :-)

I am not prone to follow a 'guru' or so. I integrate the things I like of different knowledge perspectives, ... into my own way of living.

That said, I definitely hear where you are coming from and I can understand why people would be sceptic of Dave Asprey. He is first and foremost a very skilled business man.

But I also honestly believe he is a valid voice in the new self-scientist movements.

The risk is always that we use confirmation bias to look for the things we don't like and neglect to see that, while in this case Dave is definitely not always right, a lot of things could make sense.

Apart from the warning on BF; do you have something to add, scratch, enhance on the pregnancy protocol itself?

thanks in advance!

[tunt01]

That said, I definitely hear where you are coming from and I can understand why people would be sceptic of Dave Asprey. He is first and foremost a very skilled business man.

But I also honestly believe he is a valid voice in the new self-scientist movements.

I would bet 99 times out of 100 that both of these statements are not true. The second is patently absurd.

[Jochen]

Are these supplements for you or your partner? Or, god forbid, your baby?

my partner - she is 8 weeks pregnant now. (my original post was lost and I copy/pasted from my word document and I noticed some things are missing from my initial post :-) ).

What's the reasoning behind the ribose? Hasn't that substance come under some suspicion recently?

Well to be very honest I am not entirely sure about the rational to use Ribose. It is a sort of human produced sugar and helps with energy.
I have not been able to find conclusive evidence that it is safe to use during a pregnancy. That is why I am looking for feedback.
To be very clear ... if it is not safe ... we are not going to use it.

The suggested multi would appear to be inappropriate. I would have thought that preparing for a baby is a time when the mother probably does want to consider supplementing iron. Why not take a multi where the formulation has at least to some extent been guided by the research? One of the better prenatal multis:
http://www.thorne.co...lth/prd~VMP.jsp
(One problem with the Thorne prenatal is the 2 mg copper per daily serve. Perhaps a better solution would be Thorne's basic nutrients without copper & iron, plus some additional iron in the form of iron picolinate).

My wife's iron values are in the high end so it is unlikely she will need much iron additionally. Of course we will monitor that closely.

Lactoferrin (not apolactoferrin) has been shown to be better tolerated as an iron anemia preventative than standard iron sulfate (not sure if it beats picolinate)

Zorba, thanks for that pointer. Will definitely look into it!

That said, I definitely hear where you are coming from and I can understand why people would be sceptic of Dave Asprey. He is first and foremost a very skilled business man.

But I also honestly believe he is a valid voice in the new self-scientist movements.

I would bet 99 times out of 100 that both of these statements are not true. The second is patently absurd.

Not sure if this adds much value to the thread. I am welcome to discuss this more in a separate thread.
I am neither a lover, nor a hater of the above mentioned man.

[niner]

I'm skeptical of people who are neither clinician nor scientist pitching supplements, and would advise particular caution during pregnancy; I don't recommend anything that could not be obtained from foods with a long history of human use. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't supplement some things. Don't use Lugol's. Use potassium iodide- NOW has a 225 mcg tablet that some of us use. Consider vitamin K. There's a product from LEF that contains k1, k2mk7 and k2 mk4. I'm leery of the compounds you've listed under 'hormones & pharmaceuticals'.

[Jochen]

I'm skeptical of people who are neither clinician nor scientist pitching supplements, and would advise particular caution during pregnancy; I don't recommend anything that could not be obtained from foods with a long history of human use. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't supplement some things. Don't use Lugol's. Use potassium iodide- NOW has a 225 mcg tablet that some of us use. Consider vitamin K. There's a product from LEF that contains k1, k2mk7 and k2 mk4. I'm leery of the compounds you've listed under 'hormones & pharmaceuticals'.

Thanks for that feedback.

I am definitely looking for something which is proven to be safe and effective during a pregnancy.

My mistake as I should have given more information and I should have asked a more open question: "What are recommended supplements for a pregnant woman" instead of starting with a known protocol.

really appreciate your suggestions! will look into this Potassium Iodide and Vitamine K (from LEF).

When you say you are leery of the compounds is that something in particular (or for a particular reason)?
Are there other compounds you would recommend?

I am very sceptical about the use of Deprenyl as well (as all I have read it is definitely not recommended during a pregnancy).

Progesteron is however proven to be good during a 1 semester (especially for non-natural inceptions or women over 40+ conceiving).

The Oxiracetam .. not sure about that one at the moment.

Thanks again for the feedback!

[NZT-49]

My wife is pregnant and I've also thought about adding Nootropics (Noopept) to her regimen. I noticed OP is contemplating Oxiracetam. Online recommendations say it is better not to since there are no studies on this. But it seems safe and can help baby to possibly be smarter. Has anyone ever done this?

[niner]

When you say you are leery of the compounds is that something in particular (or for a particular reason)?

My wife is pregnant and I've also thought about adding Nootropics (Noopept) to her regimen. I noticed OP is contemplating Oxiracetam. Online recommendations say it is better not to since there are no studies on this. But it seems safe and can help baby to possibly be smarter. Has anyone ever done this?

The problem with using pharmaceuticals during pregnancy is that the developing fetus is uniquely susceptible to damage. Development is a complex chemical process, and it's far easier to mess it up than to improve upon it. Drugs that do one thing in adults may do something entirely different during development. The classic example is Thalidomide, which is a very useful compound in adults, but when given to pregnant women, caused their children to be born with missing or deformed limbs. There are a lot of other compounds that are safe in adults or even in older children, but are not safe to use during pregnancy. It would be a bad idea to give nootropics to a pregnant woman. They would be very unlikely to make the child smarter, and might cause very severe damage.

[NZT-49]

I see. Thanks. I will add that idea to my list of bad ideas.

[Jochen]

When you say you are leery of the compounds is that something in particular (or for a particular reason)?

My wife is pregnant and I've also thought about adding Nootropics (Noopept) to her regimen. I noticed OP is contemplating Oxiracetam. Online recommendations say it is better not to since there are no studies on this. But it seems safe and can help baby to possibly be smarter. Has anyone ever done this?

The problem with using pharmaceuticals during pregnancy is that the developing fetus is uniquely susceptible to damage. Development is a complex chemical process, and it's far easier to mess it up than to improve upon it. Drugs that do one thing in adults may do something entirely different during development. The classic example is Thalidomide, which is a very useful compound in adults, but when given to pregnant women, caused their children to be born with missing or deformed limbs. There are a lot of other compounds that are safe in adults or even in older children, but are not safe to use during pregnancy. It would be a bad idea to give nootropics to a pregnant woman. They would be very unlikely to make the child smarter, and might cause very severe damage.

thank you very much for this explanation. And you are right the risks are definitely not worth it if there have not been any tests on the topic.

Are there any supplements you would recommend to achieve our goal?

Like PQQ-Ubiquinol-Shilajit.
Choline, ...

I appreciate the feedback!

I see. Thanks. I will add that idea to my list of bad ideas.

Why don't we synchronise our list of good and bad ideas?

Then we can post this for some more feedback on this forum :-)

[NZT-49]

Well I'm still a newbie to supplements during preganacy and am nowhere near the amount of stuff you had listed. I just had my wife take fish oil, vitamin e, folic acid, and B vitamins along with a healthy diet. I'm keeping an eye on this thread as I'm interested as well.

BTW, I read an internet study that said fish oil eaten during pregnancy increased baby's cognitive function. I do not know if it is true but it is reasonable to me.

Edited by NZT-49, 28 October 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[Jochen]

any reason not to use lugol's? And use potassium iodide.

Some people pointed me towards the Jorge Flechas (http://curezone.com/...asp?i=1895872#i). He apparently recommmends to use both Lugol's and potassium iodide.
Any thoughts on that?

I will check out his video's now.

Tia!

[niner]

any reason not to use lugol's? And use potassium iodide.

Lugol's contains elemental iodine, which is a corrosive oxidant. The difference between iodine and iodide is the same as the difference between chlorine gas, which was used to kill people in WW1, and chloride, which we need to survive. I would be surprised if it has been shown that our iodine needs could not be met with potassium iodide.

From the Wiki page on Lugol's:

Because it contains free iodine, Lugol's solution at 2% or 5% concentration without dilution is irritating and destructive to mucosa, such as the lining of the esophagus and stomach. Doses of 10 mL of 5% solution have been reported to cause gastric lesions when used in endoscopy. ^[14] The lethal dose of free iodine for an adult human of 2 to 3 grams (2000-3000 mg) free iodine represents 40 to 60 mL (less than 2 fluid ounces) of 5% Lugol's solution.

Some people pointed me towards the Jorge Flechas (http://curezone.com/...asp?i=1895872#i). He apparently recommmends to use both Lugol's and potassium iodide.
Any thoughts on that?

Hmm. I'm not sure how reliable that site is. Seems to be an anti-vaxer hangout. I just don't buy the need for elemental I2, since the first thing it's going to do when it hits your mucosa or gut is grab an electron from something (i.e. oxidize it) and turn into iodide. In the process of doing that, it injures you. Might as well just take iodide and skip the injury.

[Jochen]

@Niner, thanks for that explanation. Makes perfect sense and you have convinced me to travel the Iodide road :-)

[Jochen]

Is there a brand of potassium iodide that people could recommend? Reading mixed reviews about most of them. Tia

The one I have on my short list at the moment is Ecological Formulas - Uridine-300
http://www.amazon.co...rds=Uridine-300

Edited by Jochen, 06 November 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[Jochen]

Well after talking to many people I think I have come up with the following update on a protocol. Still looking for the specific brands, but gathering this as well.

Any feedback is more than appreciated.

daily protocol:

• 300 mg DHA
  
  • at the moment we have settled for the Nordic Naturals brand
    
    • http://www.amazon.com/Nordic-Naturals-Prenatal-Unflavored-Softgel/dp/B0062CW1BG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1383732481&sr=8-4&keywords=Nordic+Naturals
  • We were also thinking about Krill Oil, but still checking what supplement would be best
• Spirulina
  
  • At the moment we have settled for the Natura Vitalis brand
• 500 mg Uridine
  
  • 2*250 Mg / day (as per the Mr. Happy stack recommendation)
• potassium iodide
  
  • looking for good brand

Tia!

Edited by Jochen, 06 November 2013 - 10:13 AM.

[Jochen]

after reading the following 'pro' potassium article - http://www.bt.cdc.gov/radiation/ki.asp - we might go for LEF http://www.lefeurope.../products/00577

Hope this will be a good product.

Still not entirely sure about the whole thing as there are some negative affects possible as well.

Edited by Jochen, 11 November 2013 - 12:01 PM.

[blood]

http://theconversation.com/exercise-during-pregnancy-gives-baby-a-head-start-20092

Exercise during pregnancy gives baby a head start

University of Montreal

Exercising for at least 20 minutes, three times a week during pregnancy, can boost the brain development of the newborn child.

Babies born to mothers who were physically active were found to have a more advanced cerebral activation, suggesting their brains developed more rapidly.

The findings have the potential to guide public health interventions and encourage women to exercise during pregnancy.

Being active during pregnancy has also been shown to ease recovery after birth, make pregnancy more comfortable and reduce the risk of obesity in children.

Edited by blood, 11 November 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[Jochen]

Blood, thanks for that reference!

My wife is doing 'pregnancy' yoga so she is quite active.
Will let her read the article as well to boost the motivation additionally :-)

[message]

Any follow up on this op? What did you give the wife? How's the baby?

[Jochen]

almost copy paste from last pm I sent on the topic to someone :-).

 

hey hey, well first of all we have healthy 19 month old now so all is good on that front :-).

 

on the supplement note:

 

Keep in mind my wife is 40+ and that is why we added the CQ10 combo in the mix.

 

we settled for the following (doing this top of my head at the moment, so might have missed a few):

• DHA Omega 3 pills
• Uridine powder 250 mg in the evening and sometimes in the morning (check out happy stack)
• ALCAR (my wife tried choline in pure form but that made her anxious - sign of a person that optimises the useage by herself)
• a multi pregnancy pill (mainly with D3 and Foliate)
• CQ10/PQQ (cycled during weekends)
• Magnesium L-Threonate
• (once or twice a week we would throw in a Vitamin B complex).

 

and in general we ate healthily, made sure she could do a bit of moving around, stress free environment as much as possible, daily belly massages, etc etc.

 

After Finn was born we made sure we kept up with this and the only thing I give him directly is K2 (M4-M7) and D3 directly. The rest is still mainly breast milk. We also give him GOS (Gallacto Oligosaccharides) to help build up his good bacteria army in his intestines.

Since he as a C-section child due to necessity, he missed out on those prebiotics from his mom in the birth canal. Of course the mother milk compensates for that.

My wife also takes a K complex now on a daily basis.

 

anyhow hope this already helps you a bit. We wanted to focus on proven things (and added the happy stack). So I did not follow everyone's advice on this. It's a wild west out there. And for every 10 good studies you find you will find the one that disrupts your thought pattern. For instance DHA is considered good, but there is one study that shows that 7 year olds actually have less intelligence due to DHA (regardless whether this is now a well conducted  study or not it makes one think).

 

 

 

 

[message]

Thanks.

What's happy stack?

[Hebbeh]

Thanks.

What's happy stack?

 

http://www.longecity...ne-uridine-dha/

[Strelok]

That supplement stack in the OP from the "Better Baby Book" is patently wreckless.  Asprey should be punched in the face for recommending this to pregnant women. 

 

Vitamin E 400-800IU daily?  What form?  At most, I'd recommend a modest dose of mixed tocotrienols to a pregnant women, but preferably none!

Vitamin D between 50-80 ng/ml?  Stupid.  50 - 60 ng/ml max.  We're not trying to treat cancer or something here.  Plus he doesn't mention Vitamin K along side it. 

Ribose?  GTFO.

CoQ10/Liposomal Glutathione?  Maybe if they are a bit older, like >30 yo.  Dose should be modest.

Alpha GPC?  Probably no.

Lugol's solution? No.  Keep it under 1mg daily.

Progesterone and Deprenyl?  Break his arm. 

Oxiracetam?  He himself is obviously in need of some nootropics.

 

/rant

[message]

All of these supps for someone with a baby or trying to get prego seems a bit excessive.


My wife and I are trying to conceive. Early 30s. Trying to figure what to give her, if anything. Currently have her on pre-Natal mvi, vit k, l carnosine, magnesium, fish oil

[Jochen]

well to give a bit of context: I agree with the recklessness factor of the  baby protocol, hence the reason for raising my questions etc. You can read all the things that were discussed in this thread.

 

And we are older parents- my wife was 40+ when we conceived - we started CQ10 before the pregnancy.

Lots of grave digging going on in this thread :-)