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Did resveratrol help anyone with regeneration of spinal discs?

resveratrol regeneration spinal disc

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#1 BioFreak

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:08 PM


Topic says it all. :laugh: ergo-log had an article saying that it helps spinal discs grow. But did it actually help anyone in this regard?

#2 niner

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:08 AM

I'm not sure how would we could tell. I've not seen the ergo-log post (do you have a link?) but natural products like resveratrol, with its poor bioavailability, typically don't have huge effects. Growing a spinal disc is a tough problem, too. We might do something like comparing our back or neck pain before and after taking resveratrol, but there could be other things going on at the same time, like exercise or weight loss. Resveratrol also has anti-inflammatory effects, so a reduction in pain might just be less inflammation. To really sort this out, you'd need something like a placebo-controlled trial with radiological monitoring of disc quality. That would be hard...

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#3 Hebbeh

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:23 AM

Allow me :)

http://www.ergo-log....atrolspine.html

Resveratrol helps spinal discs grow

Resveratrol is a powerful anabolic for spinal discs, researchers at Rush University Medical Center in Chicago discovered when they did tests on the intervertebral discs of cattle. Resveratrol, a substance found in grapes and peanuts and popular with longevity seekers, may protect spinal discs in humans who overstrain their backs.
Posted Image
The intervertebral discs in the spine – see illustration – consist of an outer ring and an inner core. The outer ring, the annulus fibrosus, is made of collagen and is tough. Inside this is the nucleus pulposus, which is soft and made of proteoglycans, mainly aggrecan.

Spinal discs get damaged through age and physical exertion: work or sport. People with chronic lower back pain often have worn spinal discs. We’re talking about over ten percent of the population, so there’s a lot of research going on to find substances that can help restore spinal discs. One candidate is resveratrol, a substance found in plants which activates life-extending enzymes in cells. Posted Image
The illustration shows the structural formula of resveratrol.


The wearing down of the spinal cord is mainly due to inflammatory processes. These are caused by inflammatory proteins such as interleukine-1 [IL-1]. The breakdown of tissue in the spinal discs is started by enzymes such as MMP-13 and ADAMTS-4. These especially affect the aggrecan in the soft core of the disc.

The bigger the patch in the figure below, the more of the catabolic enzyme MMP-13 the researchers found in the hard annulus fibrosus [AF] and the soft nucleus pulposus [NP]. Resveratrol inhibits the production of the catabolic enzyme.




Posted Image

1: untreated spinal discs; 2: treated with IL-1 10 ng/ml; 3: bFGF 10 ng/ml; 4: IL-1 + RSV 200 microM; 5: bFGF + RSV 200 microM; 6: IL-1 + IL-1Ra 100ng/ml; 7: bFGF + IL-1Ra 100ng.

The figure below shows the effect of resveratrol on the accumulation of proteoglycan in the NP cells. Resveratrol doubled it. The addition of inflammatory proteins such as IL-1 hardly alters the stimulatory effect.


Posted Image

The accumulation of proteoglycan was partly due to the fact that the cells started to make more proteoglycan. The researchers measured the production by following at the absorption of marked sulphur in proteoglycan molecules. Once again, resveratrol blocked the effect of inflammatory proteins.


Posted Image

So, who knows: maybe resveratrol supplements could help protect your spinal discs against damage caused by squats and deadlifts. And they might also help people with back problems.

Now we’re into the realms of speculation: do people who consume lots of phenolic compounds like resveratrol have fewer back problems?

Hmmm.

That might make an interesting, albeit a little off-the-wall, epidemiological study.

Sources:
Spine. 2008 Nov 15;33(24):2586-95.
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#4 niner

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 03:15 AM

Thanks for that, Hebbeh. I went over to ergo-log but didn't see it, and got distracted by some other articles (as usual...)

Well, I don't have high hopes for resveratrol as a disc-building supplement. They used 200 uM, a concentration that's essentially impossible to reach in vivo, at least in humans. Maybe it would work at a lower concentration.

#5 BioFreak

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 08:39 AM

If it would work in humans at lower dosages, I was hoping that some people would step in reporting that they had an improvement in pain at some point of the spine.

Thanks for the clearup niner, I wasn't sure about those concentration levels in humans.

#6 mikeinnaples

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 03:33 PM

I took resv for a long time before ceasing a couple of years ago. It did not halt, slow, or reverse degenerative disc disease in me personally.
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#7 hav

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:51 PM

Suffered a compression fracture as a result of an accident involving l2 and l3 at age 20 which seemed to heal pain free after about two or three years. But I was warned to expect problems in later years as normal age related intervertebral disc shrinkage set in. In my 60's now and it hasn't happened. Yet. Maybe supplementing with resveratrol for the last 4 years or so has helped postpone it. FWIW, I did notice a temporary rise in back discomfort and joint pain when I ran out of resveratrol a few years ago and wasn't taking it for about 6 weeks. Which went away after I restocked.

Howard

#8 maxwatt

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 01:33 PM

Suffered a compression fracture as a result of an accident involving l2 and l3 at age 20 which seemed to heal pain free after about two or three years. But I was warned to expect problems in later years as normal age related intervertebral disc shrinkage set in. In my 60's now and it hasn't happened. Yet. Maybe supplementing with resveratrol for the last 4 years or so has helped postpone it. FWIW, I did notice a temporary rise in back discomfort and joint pain when I ran out of resveratrol a few years ago and wasn't taking it for about 6 weeks. Which went away after I restocked.

Howard


Jean-François Savouret, a sometime contributor to this forum, has published papers that support use of resveratrol to prevent the progression of osteoarthritis. To the extent that back pain is caused by stenosis from arthritis, I would expect resveratrol to help with or this kind of pain. However, deteriorating discs is another matter. Disks tend to dry out, become brittle and shrink with age. I don't think resveratrol affects this.

#9 hav

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 05:54 PM

... However, deteriorating discs is another matter. Disks tend to dry out, become brittle and shrink with age. I don't think resveratrol affects this.


You're right. Although the study cited above shows resveratrol affects spinal discs, it doesn't clearly connect the effects to aging:

The Action of Resveratrol, a Phytoestrogen Found in Grapes, on the Intervertebral Disc

IVD damage caused by mechanical injury, inflammation, or aging may change the structure of the IVD, and cause loss of matrix homeostasis by promoting catabolic pathways and/or suppressing anabolic responses. Pro-inflammatory cytokines and growth factors such as interleukin-1 (IL-1)1012 and basic fibroblast growth factor (bFGF)13 have been implicated in degenerative disc disease.
...
The IVD consists of tough outer rings, termed collectively the anulus fibrosus (AF), and a gelatinous inner core, the nucleus pulposus (NP). This unique structure has both shock absorbing properties and the ability to resist deformation on mechanical loading. The AF is composed mainly of collagen, whereas the NP is largely composed of proteoglycans (PGs), principally aggrecan. It has been suggested that the degenerative process begins in the NP and is associated with progressive loss of PGs.8

Disc cells residing in the AF and NP regulate homeostasis through metabolic activities that are modulated by a variety of stimuli, including cytokines and growth factors acting in a paracrine and/or autocrine fashion. The cells in the normal disc of human adults maintain the matrix in which they reside at a steady state. Degeneration of the IVD may result from an imbalance between the anabolic and catabolic processes and loss of this steady state metabolism.9 IVD damage caused by mechanical injury, inflammation, or aging may change the structure of the IVD, and cause loss of matrix homeostasis by promoting catabolic pathways and/or suppressing anabolic responses. Pro-inflammatory cytokines and growth factors such as interleukin-1 (IL-1)1012 and basic fibroblast growth factor (bFGF)13 have been implicated in degenerative disc disease.
...


So its not clear that the proteins they measured the effect on are relevant to disc shrinking from aging. They only cite research on those inflammatory proteins in connection with degenerative disc disease. Also, it was an in vitro 21-day study so its unlikely the observed effects will be seen within the body in that same time frame... but their in vitro observations could be an indicator of possible long-term in vivo effects. They also opine that oral resveratrol would be unlikely to reach the dics because of their avascularity and suggest injection.

However, in spite of all that, my personal experience seems to support extension of their observations to age-related disc deterioration. So far, anyway. Perhaps oral resveratrol is being deliverd into my discs by lymph. I take resveratrol twice a day and try to take it together with oils and an emmulsifier in my morning dosage.

Howard

#10 cudBwrong

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 12:38 PM

However, in spite of all that, my personal experience seems to support extension of their observations to age-related disc deterioration. So far, anyway. Perhaps oral resveratrol is being deliverd into my discs by lymph. I take resveratrol twice a day and try to take it together with oils and an emmulsifier in my morning dosage.

Howard


In case it's not clear, Howard is using oils and an emulsifier in an effort to enhance the bioavailability (for example, the blood concentration levels) of resveratrol, which normally is quite poor. He and others have described, somewhere else on this forum, why and how the oils might help. A number of researchers are experimenting with liposomes, tiny fat capsules, to protect and deliver the resveratrol inside.

Another alternative is to take a bioavailability enhancer like piperine, which is the component of black pepper that makes it pungent. About 5 to 9% of ordinary black pepper is piperine, but you can find it in an inexpensive tablet form.

In mice, piperine greatly enhances the blood concentration levels of resveratrol. If you are trying to treat an actual disease (like I am for a retina disease,) piperine might help.

It's not clear why it works, but it probably makes the liver too busy to break down all the resveratrol right away.

See this study, in free fulltext:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3295233/

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#11 Phoenicis

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 01:52 PM

Well, I remember this coming up -

  • curcumin and stem cell therapy synergistically enhance recovery from spinal cord injury. Stem cell therapy improved recovery from moderate spinal cord injury (SCI), however, it had a limited effect on recovery after severe SCI. Curcumin stimulated NSC proliferation in vitro, and in combination with stem cell therapy, induced profound recovery from severe SCI as evidenced by improved functional locomotor recovery, increased body weight, and soleus muscle mass.

Resveratrol and curcumin are synergistic in some ways. For example curcumin counteracts bcl-2 overexpression which attenuates one of resveratrols MoAs. I'm not sure how that would relate to spinal cord injury, but they have been shown to be synergistic for inflammation too. 

 

I would definitely go with theracurmin for something like this since it has the highest bioavailability. 


Edited by Phoenicis, 02 May 2014 - 01:56 PM.






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