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Schizophrenia Treatment

schizophrenia psychosis

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#1 mono

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:30 AM


Hi all. I'm new here and am also new to this whole pharmacology thing too. I don't know too much about it all and was hoping to get some help on here. Currently I'm on 6mg of risperidone for my schizophrenia and it works for my positive symptoms. Problem is it has a bunch of side effects. I know the newest theories revolve around the NMDA receptors and glutamate, but the drugs for this are all being trialled. I was hoping I could get some suggestions of chemicals / supplements I could use to further improve my treatment, of both positive, negative and cognitive symptoms! From some people who understand this better than me. It would be excellent if I could find something that works and be able to reduce my current AP. I've tried glycine although I get some benefit from it, it makes me very nauseous and I can't take it. Sarcosine has given me very little improvement. Thanks for any help.

Edited by mono, 27 November 2013 - 01:30 AM.


#2 mono

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 04:55 AM

This is what I have come up with so far: ALCAR - mGlu2 induction +++ Nefiracetam - activation of NMDAR and mGluR5, potentiation of nicotinic acetylcholine receptor function, enhanced AMPA and NMDA receptor function. +++ l-lysine - reduce NO +++ pregnenolone - neuroprotective effects, increases neurogenesis, decreases apoptosis and inflammation, modulates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, increases GABA(A) receptor responses, and elevates pregnenolone sulfate, a neurosteroid that positively modulates NMDA receptors.

Edited by mono, 27 November 2013 - 04:56 AM.

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#3 0010

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 02:57 PM

Look into d-serine.
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#4 Muad'Dib

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 04:53 PM

I made some progress with CILTEP stack.
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#5 Heh

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:35 PM

Niacin, TMG, and brainwave entrainment (search for Neuro-Programmer 3) at 40Hz.

Taken from the following page (I especially recommend trying section A): http://www.psychforu...39.html#p178959

[A] ORTHOMOLECULAR MEDICINE & MEGAVITAMIN THERAPY
(1) VITAMINS:

Vitamin B-3:
3 - 6g daily, in 3 doses, after meals. Normal does is 3 - 4.5g daily. [Dose can be increased to 30g]

Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxine):
Under 1,000mg/day. [Do not exceed 2,000 mg/day]

Vitamin C:
3g./day, or more

Folic Acid & Vitamin B-12:
Large doses preferable

Omega-3 EFAs (e.g. Fish Oil):
3 - 9 x 1,000mg. capsules/day

(2) MINERALS [from Health Food store, or naturopath]:

Selenium (antioxidant/antidepressant) 200-600 micrograms/day)
Manganese 30 milligrams chelated manganese, or 5-10 drops daily of a solution containing 10% zinc sulphate and 0.5% manganese chloride
Dolomite Good aid to sleep
Zinc 50mg per day in tablet form

[B] HOMEOPATHIC MEDICINE [from Homeopathic Pharmacies]:

Hyocaimus 200c [for hearing voices, or desires to go about naked]
Aurum Met 200c [for blackness, depression, suicidal urges]

[C] BACH FLOWER REMEDIES [From Health Food stores]

Rescue Remedy [all-round help for panic, or anxiety]
Cherry Plum [fear of mind giving way]
White Chestnut [unwanted thoughts]
Sweet Chestnut [extreme mental anguish]
Rock Rose [terror]
Crab Apple [self-hatred]

[D] HERBAL REMEDIES [Available at Health Food Stores]:

Hypericum (St John's Wort)
*Improves mood and relieves anxiety, fear, nervousness and depression without the side-effects of antidepressant drugs. It works best if combined with the herb Valerian.

Ginkgo biloba
*Improves brain circulation, memory and other mental functions; helps with poor balance, fatigue, mood swings and headaches

Korean Ginseng, Gotu Kola, Spirulina, Chelated Iron
* Good energy boosters

[E] AROMATHERAPY 100% Essential Oils [Health Food Stores and Chemists].

Use in baths, oil burners, or diluted for massage, as directed.

For Anxiety: basil, bergamot, geranium, lavender, vetiver, sandalwood, neroli
For Depression: bergamot, sage, lavender, chamomile, geranium, rose, rosemary, patchouli, neroli, jasmine

[D] DIET
Eat plenty of fresh fruit and vegetables, whole grain breads and cereals, beans, beetroot, alfalfa and soybean sprouts, avocado, walnuts, paw paw, banana and a high intake of fluids (not coffee) to flush out toxins. Avoid chocolate, alcohol, cough syrup, nose drops, pickled meat and sweets. Do moderate exercise (e.g. walking, bike riding).
For diarrhoea, take rice with cinnamon.

Edited by Heh, 27 November 2013 - 07:37 PM.

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#6 Galaxyshock

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:43 PM

Ginseng:

Efficacy Study of Panax Ginseng to Boost Antipsychotics Effects in Schizophrenia

Short-term improvement in visual memory by a proprietary North American ginseng extract in stable schizophrenia

Effect of Ginsenosides on Memory Retention of Rats in Animal Models of Schizophrenia

Several pharmacological properties have been reported for ginsenosides or ginseng, including
effects on the central nervous system, tranquilizing and antipsychotic actions


Bacopa monnieri (also called Brahmi):

Add-on effect of Brahmi in the management of schizophrenia

Effects of bacopa monnieri on VGLUT1 density in frontal cortex, striatum and hippocampus of schizophrenic rat model

Neuroprotective and cognitive enhancement effects of bacopa monnieri on novel object recognition in schizophrenic rat model

Pregnenolone indeed can be very helpful:

Pregnenolone as a novel therapeutic candidate in schizophrenia: emerging preclinical and clinical evidence.

Proof-of-Concept Trial with the Neurosteroid Pregnenolone Targeting Cognitive and Negative Symptoms in Schizophrenia

Edited by Galaxyshock, 27 November 2013 - 07:46 PM.

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#7 kelka

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 08:38 PM

L-theanine seems to help with positive symptoms. Its especially good for anxiety. I can only find augmentation research though but worth a read.

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#8 Heraclitus

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 09:00 PM

Sarcosine and N-Acetylcysteine.
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#9 abelard lindsay

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 03:19 AM

I made some progress with CILTEP stack.


Can you elaborate a bit on that?

#10 dami79

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:11 AM

cILTEP is useless when taken with antipsychotics.

#11 0010

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:44 AM

CILTEP is useless on its own.

#12 Muad'Dib

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:51 AM

I feel much better with cILTEP in some aspects especially the DP/DR aspect.
Some benefits from cILTEP are long lasting.
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#13 blood

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:19 PM

Manganese 30 milligrams chelated manganese, or 5-10 drops daily of a solution containing 10% zinc sulphate and 0.5% manganese chloride


The latest research indicates that soluble manganese is highly neurotoxic... Probably because it is much more bioavailable than food bound manganese. Large doses of supplemental manganese are not a good idea for anyone. It is pretty much impossible to become deficient in manganese... Even the poorest diet contains more than enough manganese... The body's challenge wrt manganese is limiting the amount of manganese absorbed, not dealing with scarcity. The advice to consume manganese chloride dissolved in water is dangerous.

Edited by blood, 28 November 2013 - 02:21 PM.


#14 Heh

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 04:41 PM

Manganese 30 milligrams chelated manganese, or 5-10 drops daily of a solution containing 10% zinc sulphate and 0.5% manganese chloride


The latest research indicates that soluble manganese is highly neurotoxic... Probably because it is much more bioavailable than food bound manganese. Large doses of supplemental manganese are not a good idea for anyone. It is pretty much impossible to become deficient in manganese... Even the poorest diet contains more than enough manganese... The body's challenge wrt manganese is limiting the amount of manganese absorbed, not dealing with scarcity. The advice to consume manganese chloride dissolved in water is dangerous.

Ok. Not to defend what I saw recommended, but I thought the oral form of manganese isn't neurotoxic (especially when taken with such a dosage of zinc), and that it was the inhaled dust that proved to be problematic. Either way, vitamin B-3 (which can be hepatotoxic at these dosages unless taken in the instant release form with equal amounts vitamin C and maybe vitamin B5 as well) and vitamin C are the main supplements in this stack, and you'd take those for a month to see if they help or not (they don't always help). The good thing about niacin (etc) is that it can be taken in combination with anti-psychotics and not cause a problem, making it easy to trial. The combination of manganese and zinc help to lower high copper levels, which is one problem that schizophrenics may have, or is one problem that may cause symptoms that look like schizophrenia. Also, it's been shown that a lot of schizophrenics have lower than normal levels of manganese, but this is something that can easily be tested for. The same goes for those supplementing with Manganese. They can have their levels tested to ensure they aren't too high, though I'm not sure how reliable these tests are at detecting toxic levels in time.

My best advice for those suffering from these illnesses that haven't received any help from anti-psychotics or traditional medicine is to find a naturopath who can do a full vitamin and mineral analysis (among other things) and who knows about vitamin and mineral therapy. Maybe they can come up with a cocktail that works. It may not always pan out, but it's an option worth trying. And even for those who've found success with traditional methods this may be a worthwhile option to try if the traditional methods have left them non-functioning or side-effect ridden.

There are other things schizophrenics have tried that have eased some of their symptoms, like amino acid therapy and low carb dieting.

Edited by Heh, 28 November 2013 - 04:45 PM.


#15 Reformed-Redan

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 05:59 PM

This is what I have come up with so far: ALCAR - mGlu2 induction +++ Nefiracetam - activation of NMDAR and mGluR5, potentiation of nicotinic acetylcholine receptor function, enhanced AMPA and NMDA receptor function. +++ l-lysine - reduce NO +++ pregnenolone - neuroprotective effects, increases neurogenesis, decreases apoptosis and inflammation, modulates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, increases GABA(A) receptor responses, and elevates pregnenolone sulfate, a neurosteroid that positively modulates NMDA receptors.

Nefiracetam should be very good for controlling positive symptomes. I've always wondered. Is the above stack effective for you? I'd like to see if IDRA-21 or PRL is also good. IDRA-21 should help though I don't know how increased glutamate activation would have an effect, given the glutamate hypothesis of schizofrenia.

Another route would be to increase reelin expression. Though, can't figure out how.

#16 Muad'Dib

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 09:07 PM

This is what I have come up with so far: ALCAR - mGlu2 induction +++ Nefiracetam - activation of NMDAR and mGluR5, potentiation of nicotinic acetylcholine receptor function, enhanced AMPA and NMDA receptor function. +++ l-lysine - reduce NO +++ pregnenolone - neuroprotective effects, increases neurogenesis, decreases apoptosis and inflammation, modulates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, increases GABA(A) receptor responses, and elevates pregnenolone sulfate, a neurosteroid that positively modulates NMDA receptors.

Nefiracetam should be very good for controlling positive symptomes. I've always wondered. Is the above stack effective for you? I'd like to see if IDRA-21 or PRL is also good. IDRA-21 should help though I don't know how increased glutamate activation would have an effect, given the glutamate hypothesis of schizofrenia.

Another route would be to increase reelin expression. Though, can't figure out how.



Whats is the mechanism of IDRA-21 and PRL?

#17 mono

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 01:14 AM

Thanks for all the replies. I'm looking to focus on the glutamate theory for now. I believe this will be the action of future antipsychotics. I also believe clozapine is most effective to to its action on glutamate - mglur nmda.

Haven't tried the stack mentioned above but I am about too. Just ordered some nefi and the rest. Currently on sarcosine DAA and NAC. Seems to have a positive effect on cognition and negatives. Bit early to tell yet though.

Idra21 sounds interesting. Will have to look into it.

#18 0010

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:17 AM

There are many causes for schizophrenia,but mostly its either dopaminergic or NMDAR receptor overactivation/underactivation. Im currently on abilify and I will add sunifiram to combat any NMDA defficency. All my life I've felt like Im not in controll of myself, it kinda resembles a 3/10 ether trip.

#19 mono

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 06:42 AM

It's possible that glutamate acts on nmda to inhibit dopamine. By blocking nmda, you get dopamine released from tonic inhibition, causing psychosis. The two may well be interconnected. Kynurenic acid, which schizophrenics have increased levels, also acts as an NMDA antagonist.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/17573079/
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/15206728/


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#20 Olon

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:04 AM

CILTEP is useless on its own.

I expect it to be harmful, as luteolin has recently been shown to inhibit Ras/Raf/ERK signalling. Very likely the reason for its beneficial effect for autism. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23172826 It has been known that ERK activation is essential for clozapine's antipsychotic effect, however, so one should better stay away from it.

#21 Muad'Dib

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:52 AM

I Have gained on CILTEP but everyone differs.
I don't take any anti psychotics.
My problems now days are overall cognitive issues.

#22 0010

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 01:29 PM

I Have gained on CILTEP but everyone differs.
I don't take any anti psychotics.
My problems now days are overall cognitive issues.



Dude... http://en.wikipedia....i/Schizophrenia

#23 Muad'Dib

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 01:46 PM

I Have gained on CILTEP but everyone differs.
I don't take any anti psychotics.
My problems now days are overall cognitive issues.



Dude... http://en.wikipedia....i/Schizophrenia


Dude http://en.wikipedia....f_schizophrenia

#24 0010

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 02:04 PM

Please explain your so called ''gains''..do they include controlling psychosis,voices and hallucinations? Do you even have schizophrenia? Cognitive deficits don't match the criteria for schizophrenia diagnosis,duh... I kinda covered the mechanisms of schizophrenia in my previous post. Sunifiram induces LTP and modulates NMDA receptors which play crucial role in schizophrenia. Ciltep is just an unproven theory that people waste their money on. Peace.

#25 Olon

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 03:32 PM

I Have gained on CILTEP but everyone differs.
I don't take any anti psychotics.
My problems now days are overall cognitive issues.

PDE inhibition is good for schizophrenia, but with flavonoids one always buys a wild mix of actions.

#26 Tom_

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 02:54 PM

Modafinil is off license but has been shown multiple times in double blind studies to improve negative & cognitive symptoms without worsening positive symptoms, perhaps it part because of its actions of GABA/Glu system. It may also reduce some of the side effects. It theoretically could worsen positive symptoms but its a very good choice. Atomoxetine is somewhat stimulating and also acts as an NDMA antagonist so is also a good option. Studies even show efficacy and a reasonable safety profile (in regards to positive symptoms) with methylphendiate although out of those three options it would be my last choice.

You could combine with Aripiprazole at a low-medium dose which is a more activating antipsychotic with a unique mechanism of action, which may also reduce side effect burden. Its also going to help with depressive symptoms and and may give greater control over positive symptoms. A simple switch to Aripiprazole may be in order before any other changes. It has a much better side effect profile and is equally effective.

NAC as previously mentioned is a theoretical option but the above are better options.

Memantine and Riluzole are poorly studied possibilities. Memantine is an NDMA antagonist, d2 agonist, nicotinic antagonist and 5ht3 antagonist. It effect its a totally mixed positive/negative Mechanism of schizophrenia and so I would avoid it. Riluzole is prohibitively expensive with very little research.

Galantamine has shown promise in one large study for negative and cognitive symptoms. Its an A-cholinerase inhibitor with additional nicotinic agonist properties and so may well be worth a try.

You may find that it takes a combination of two meds to help significantly with cognitive and negative symptoms. Modafinil or Atomoxetine and Galantamine combined could be the best you are going to get. You should change one thing at a time when you trial and maintain that change for six weeks before you decide you keep with it.
Galantamine

#27 Ark

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 06:01 PM

I've heard Nicotine patch is useful in conbination with Memantine, sAME and Nuvigil.
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#28 Tom_

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 06:02 PM

The problem with a nicotine patch is eventually you will get addicted and Nicotine targets all of the nicotonic receptors which isn't ideal.

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#29 Ark

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 06:09 PM

The problem with a nicotine patch is eventually you will get addicted and Nicotine targets all of the nicotonic receptors which isn't ideal.

People with Schizophrenia benefit from low dosage nicotine, consider adding Naltadoxen with Bacopa support.

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