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Long time low T sufferer

low testosterone

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58 replies to this topic

#31 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:20 AM

Sometime the most expensive drugs aren't worth it. Probably most of the time. They cost more than cryonics and only add a few weeks to months to your life. The rest comes down to politics and there is a solution to everything. I'll take care of all that in the book I'm working on. I've been thinking about this stuff for years and you haven't proposed a problem I don't already have a solution for, so wait until I finish writing my book and we'll see what else I can do after that :) For now though, it's getting late and I have to go.

#32 YOLF

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 03:25 AM

Oh, and watch the videos of Bill Faloon on this page, it will help you alot. He's a co-founder of LEF.org and knows his stuff. He's full of good information and will help inform your worldview IMO.

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#33 dunbar

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 07:17 PM

I wonder can you already sign up for cryonics? I mean do they even have the technology ready in the near future?
And how much does this even cost?
Do you pay for every year? Like 100 year cryonic sleep = 50.000 $
200 year cryonic sleep = 70.000 $

What if you pay for 100 years and they wake you up and then you find out that it's too early and you needed at least another
100 years before science can actually help you? That would suck.

#34 YOLF

  • Location:Delaware Delawhere, Delahere, Delathere!

Posted 18 January 2014 - 01:43 AM

Cryonics costs between $12,000 USD and $200,000 USD depending on whether you get whole body or just your head frozen and which company you sign up with. Part of what you pay is for the procedure, and part of it earns interest to pay the ongoing maintenance of keeping your body in liquid nitrogen and will eventually be the money that is used to return you to a life of perfect health that you've never known prior (you age and deteriorate slowly from the day you are born). Some of the cryonics providers also have yearly membership dues, and some have a lifetime option.

Funding cryonics through life insurance or investments:

Rudi Hoffman
http://rudihoffman.com/cryonics.html

Unusual Risks:
http://www.unusualrisks.co.uk/

There may be others which I am not aware of, you can try searching for others on cryonics.org as they used to have a list of agents specializing in cryonics. I strongly suggest only using a cryonics specialist for cryonics insurance and investments. The comparison in my experience is night and day and is largely to do with the knowledge and experience of the agent. Rudi does about 80% of it last I checked.

Cryonics and Cryonics Service Providers:

KrioRus.ru
Neuro - $12K USD
Whole Body - $35K USD

Cryonics Institute, Cryonics.org
Whole Body w/ lifetime membership - $28K USD
Whole Body w/o lifetime membership - $35K USD
Lifetime Membership - $1,250

Alcor.org
Neuro - $80K USD*
Whole Body - $200K USD*
See this page for more on membership costs and surcharges for members outside of the US:
http://www.alcor.org.../scheduleA.html
* Includes local standby services for optimal cryopreservation

The American Cryonics Society also offers a combination of services:
http://www.americancryonics.org/
Services can be tailored to meet your needs, so it's hard to say what your cost would be. Generally it is $155K USD for members in the US getting the complete package, and are getting cryopreserved in the US.

Suspended Animation http://www.suspendedinc.com/index.html
You can contact this company for standby services if not provided by the cryonics provider or if you would like added coverage

There is also a standby company in Europe and the UK, one of which is:
http://cryonics-uk.com/

Edited by cryonicsculture, 18 January 2014 - 01:57 AM.


#35 dunbar

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 01:26 AM

This means people are already being frozen? :|o

Or do they not have the technology yet and people who already signed up and paid and then die before they have the technology
have wasted their money?

Can they actually guarantee that a frozen head will one day be brough back to life and then transplanted on a new body or on an animal body?
What if they cannot pull it off and then realize it's not going to work and they already have thousands of frozen heads lying around? :|?

#36 YOLF

  • Location:Delaware Delawhere, Delahere, Delathere!

Posted 20 January 2014 - 03:55 AM

This means people are already being frozen? :|o

Or do they not have the technology yet and people who already signed up and paid and then die before they have the technology
have wasted their money?

Can they actually guarantee that a frozen head will one day be brough back to life and then transplanted on a new body or on an animal body?
What if they cannot pull it off and then realize it's not going to work and they already have thousands of frozen heads lying around? :|?


People get cryopreserved when they pay for it as long as they are setup for it. Sometimes family will get in the way and try to claim the funds, but if you have your cryonics plans setup right (talk to Rudi Hoffman), then you'll be alright as long as we know when and where you die. The best case scenario is getting frozen immediately after "legal death," and dieing with other cryonicists in the vicinity. If you can, die in Scottsdale AZ, Clinton TWP MI, or Moscow Russia.

We use the best technology we can mobilize at the time of the suspension and the process is always improving. If you pay attention to the cryonics company you are signed up with you will even have a chance to learn the technology and make suggestions for improvement. Cryonics can be thought of as an apprenticeship, it gets passed on from one generation of cryonicists to the next, and the trade improves.

There is no guarantee, but we're always doing our best to improve our technologies and to develop technologies to thaw even the worst case scenarios. We never give up on a patient. We work until we find a cure for what killed them, and a cure for any damage done in preserving them which at this stage is very minimal. There have been about half a dozen new technologies that have been discovered/developed which will undoubtedly be available by the time you need cryonics and will likely allow us to vitrify you quite perfectly. All of these techs came about in the last decade or thereabouts, so we'll probably have even more developments in the years to come the way technologies and science keeps improving. You are the generation that will benefit from all of this and will probably be among the first groups to get thawed.

If one technology doesn't work, we keep your head frozen until we develop something that does. Again, we never give up on a patient! When we can't fix our patient right now, it doesn't mean they are dead and gone, it just means they are frozen until the day comes along where we will be able to put their brain in a new body of their own design. Just sign up already so I can welcome you to immortality!

#37 dunbar

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:44 PM

This sounds scary. I mean what if you're on vacation far off from the next airport or city and then die all of a sudden?
Who's supposed to rescue your body and freeze it? I mean even if they knew where you are and that you just died how
are they supposed to freeze you in time?
Does every cryonicist have a GPS personal messager with a damn it guys I'm about to die better hurry up button?
If I signed up for cryonics I'd be totally scared of dying at the wrong place.
Or could you also tell them to freeze you now or at your own volition before actually dying? Or would this be illegal?
I mean why do the people first have to die? This is cruel.

#38 YOLF

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:28 PM

There are ways to die at your own volition, and there are devices that will notify your cryoprovider if your heart stops. So if your phone works, you get frozen. Even if your cryopreservation isn't ideal in circumstances, you'll still get frozen according to the best procedure we have for your situation and that just means it will take more effort to repair you. So as long as we get to you in a reasonable time, you should be ok. You could also take low dose aspirin and some other things daily which would have you ready for cryopreservation. Basically, if you die and we have someone next to you, they inject you with a cocktail of stuff to keep your blood from clotting and prevent some other things that normally make death irreversable or just very difficult to reverse by today's standards. Most of them can be taken daily and are actually good for your health and will help ensure that when your heart stops you already have much of what you need inside of you, so if we aren't there right away, there isn't much harm. Whenever we have social events we go over this information and any updates and improvements that have been added. Some people also get tatoos with instructions and carry the applicable meds and what not on their person. You also wear a wristlet with contact information on it. The people at the other end will instruct the caller to start the cryopreservation.

#39 dunbar

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 11:02 PM

So this means that the technology to freeze people exists right now? Have people been frozen already?
Seriously, if this already exists and is in use why haven't I heard about this? Why isn't this on the headlines?

Can this be imagined like in demolition man? Are you frozen in a bathtub which is filled with some sort of liquid
or how does it work?

I also wonder before they freeze you do they actually clean the stomach & colon? Or does this not matter?

#40 YOLF

  • Location:Delaware Delawhere, Delahere, Delathere!

Posted 25 January 2014 - 04:04 AM

The technology exists to freeze people, but only animals, insects, and human cells have been brought back so far. We haven't been able to do a human because they are already dead when we freeze them and they want to wait until they can be made young and healthy first. The procedure used on the animals is also a little different than what is currently used for humans. There is alot of development going on, and due to our commitment to developing the tech to thaw even the worst cases, we're not so worried about making the transition to newer technology prematurely. The tech is advancing and will continue to advance, so we instead choose the most cost efficient combination of technologies and follow a few steps behind on human preservation. It also keeps things affordable so everyone can afford it.

I guess the biggest reason it isn't all over the news is that it's speculative and we're relying on technologies that are still in development. It's kind of like being in 1980 and saying in March of 1973 "I'm going on a trip, I'll call you with my cell phone when I get there" (the first handheld mobile phone call was made on April 3rd 1973.

Here in the US, there are lots of people signed up for cryonics, probably about 90% are from the US or CA. The distribution of cryonicists is much more sparse in Europe and in some cases it isn't legal yet. We had it first and it makes the news every time we raise money to preserve someone who can't afford it. In the scope of things, Europe is just getting started, though the UK does have nearly 100 cryonicists IIRC. I suppose language is a barrier. Though the Prospect of Immortality, which was probably the first book on cryonics was published half a century ago and has made it into many languages. Being the first, it is a little dated, but it still gets the idea across to readers who compare it to modern cryonics.

You can read lots of historical articles on cryonics here:
http://benbest.com/

The industry certainly had it's challenges as it was getting started.

#41 dunbar

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 02:35 AM

Thanks for the info. I really hadn't thought that this stuff already exists.
Since you said people have already been frozen, how much time do they usually pay for? I mean do you have stats about that?

And do people basically say that they want to stay frozen for as long as possible, expecting that medicine will be most advanced then, or
do they want to be brought back as soon as there are therapies for their disorders? But then you can always think that 100 years later the
therapies will be even better.

#42 Luminosity

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 04:21 AM

Sorry you're dealing with that. An alternative approach is to use Chinese medicine, including the diet and lifestyle. I have a thread about it. Chinese medicine tends to be good at hormones.

http://www.longecity...ne/page__st__60

Using Western medicine for hormones can have drawbacks, even if you can get access to everything you want.

#43 dunbar

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 04:28 AM

Sorry you're dealing with that. An alternative approach is to use Chinese medicine, including the diet and lifestyle. I have a thread about it. Chinese medicine tends to be good at hormones.

http://www.longecity...ne/page__st__60

Using Western medicine for hormones can have drawbacks, even if you can get access to everything you want.


Thanks will check out when I have a bit more time. But does TCM involve taking many chinese herbs?
Cause this is an issue. I also once asked a doctor who also does TCM about herbs and pesticides and safety and he
agreed and said that this is tricky. I mean it's not like there is a chinese herb shop at every corner where you can be standardised,
lab tested herbs.
Another issue is interactions. I mean imagine you're taking a weird chinese herb mix then how on earth can you know if you can still
take a prescription drug? It's impossible. That's what scares me about it.

#44 Luminosity

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 04:41 AM

I don't think those are such big issues. Just read the thread and the books I recommend.

#45 dunbar

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 05:28 AM

Ok I'll look into the thread.

#46 YOLF

  • Location:Delaware Delawhere, Delahere, Delathere!

Posted 26 January 2014 - 05:47 AM

Thanks for the info. I really hadn't thought that this stuff already exists.
Since you said people have already been frozen, how much time do they usually pay for? I mean do you have stats about that?

And do people basically say that they want to stay frozen for as long as possible, expecting that medicine will be most advanced then, or
do they want to be brought back as soon as there are therapies for their disorders? But then you can always think that 100 years later the
therapies will be even better.


The cost of the preservations listed in the thread below detail the costs associated with everything to do with cryonics. The fees paid to the providers cover indefinite storage. The remaining funds after the preservation are invested and the interest is used to pay the liquid nitrogen bill. Eventually, the money invested is expected to grow large enough to allow for you to be thawed and receive the medical care necessary to restore you to indefinite health/youth. With Alcor, the money goes into what's called a "patient care trust" which will be used for reanimation. I'm not sure what CI does TBH.

When you become a cryonicist, you can specify how and when you'd like to be returned to life. The conditions are up to you. You could ask to be thawed only once your family member is thawed or until a friend is thawed etc.

#47 YOLF

  • Location:Delaware Delawhere, Delahere, Delathere!

Posted 26 January 2014 - 05:53 AM

Pretty much any TCM that worked would be subsumed under western supplements. For instance, astragalus looks like it works, so we have strong astragalus extracts. Anyways, virtually all supplements are made in China or India regardless of the brand. You'd be hard pressed to find anything common made anywhere else.

#48 dunbar

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 05:55 PM

Hello,
I wonder have the cryonicists really thought this all through? I mean even if the whole cryonic technology works and they can really
freeze people and then bring them back 200 years later then this is one thing, but what about the effects which this will have on
society? What if everyone wants to be frozen and then brought back in the future?
Imagine they freeze you and bring you back 200 years later, what's supposed to happen then? How are you supposed to get along
in such a futuristic world? How are you supposed to pay your bills? What kind of job could you do there? All other humans which were
born 200 years later will be so far ahead of you. You will probably feel totally stupid and helpless.
To me this really doesn't make much sense.
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#49 YOLF

  • Location:Delaware Delawhere, Delahere, Delathere!

Posted 30 January 2014 - 06:46 PM

That's a good question and I've asked it myself. In doing so, I've designed a solution that will not only be useful for cryonicists but will do better what at what we fail to do at 100% today.

Birthrates will inevitablely slow, but children will be healthier. If you consider the number of people in prisons or suffering from mental health issues, the birth rate is already too high as we obviously can't take care of the children we have. Population will still rise and we will need to move off of earth and onto orbitals or something better that will be designed in the future. Getting off of earth and leaving it as a nature preserve is a moral imperative when we become advanced enough to do so and we'll have to manage the birthrate by the amount of liveable space in space that we've been able to produce.

I've been planning to write a book on it, so if you follow my blog, you'll see get a chance to see what it will be like and how the revolutionary technology that I propose will make it work. It's a speculative fiction piece, but it is meant to inspire development.

#50 dunbar

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 07:35 PM

But what about the problem of not getting along and being of no use in a future world?

Or will this problem simply be solved by new mind technologies so that every frozen person simply gets all data downloaded
onto her brain so that she can work in a job and earn money?

My concern is that even if all this stuff will exist one day (freezing people, travelling to other planets) then it will most likely only
be for the rich and famous. It'll be just like in the movie 2012 where the arks also were for the important persons only. They simply
won't freeze every person which is of no value for society and I also don't even think it would be good if everyone got frozen and
then came back. Just think about all the stupid or violent people. Freezing them wouldn't be such a good idea.

#51 udinesio

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 04:06 PM

You have to investigate this. Low gonadotropins can mean a tumor in your pituitary gland. About Testoviron, I'd recommend taking a half ampoule once a week. There are plenty of doctors out there who are retarded. I had to start TRT at the age of 18 and am still self medicating as no one will take me seriously. I'm on Testoviron too as this is the only thing you can easily find in Europe.

#52 dunbar

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:26 AM

Hi,
I had a piuitary MRI was was normal.
I asked my silly endo about getting smaller shots he said no. He said if you inject a smaller amount it as a smaller surface and
it will change the absorption and yadda. He simply wasn't interested at all. And self-injections are also no option he also made this
clear. I don't know who to go to anymore. I have been to all endos which I knew and also urologists and they all sucked!

#53 udinesio

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:32 PM

Hi,
I had a piuitary MRI was was normal.
I asked my silly endo about getting smaller shots he said no. He said if you inject a smaller amount it as a smaller surface and
it will change the absorption and yadda. He simply wasn't interested at all. And self-injections are also no option he also made this
clear. I don't know who to go to anymore. I have been to all endos which I knew and also urologists and they all sucked!


Check prolactin, cortisol, thyroid, kidney, liver, estrogen, progesterone, cholesterol, glucose, hemogram and GnRH. If everything comes up normal, I'd suggest start taking T shoots. If you can't find a doctor willing to prescribe, try to get the T from another source.

#54 dunbar

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:22 AM

Hi,
I'm on thyroxine cause my TSH was getting to high. But being on thyroxine for a few months now doesn't affect my T levels they are still low.
I had all the stuff measured except progesterone and hemogram and GnRH. Only LH. I also had a LHRH test which was normal. Even though my LH
is low it can be stimulated which means that the issue is actually the hypothalamus because it doesn't signal the pituitary to make enough LH.
My E2 wasn't that high either. I thought maybe my E2 is too high and that this causes the fat distribution issues but it was always in the normal range.

#55 udinesio

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:53 PM

Hi,
I'm on thyroxine cause my TSH was getting to high. But being on thyroxine for a few months now doesn't affect my T levels they are still low.
I had all the stuff measured except progesterone and hemogram and GnRH. Only LH. I also had a LHRH test which was normal. Even though my LH
is low it can be stimulated which means that the issue is actually the hypothalamus because it doesn't signal the pituitary to make enough LH.
My E2 wasn't that high either. I thought maybe my E2 is too high and that this causes the fat distribution issues but it was always in the normal range.


You can't say your hypothalamus is to blame without checking GnRH first. It could be something with your piuitary gland.

#56 dunbar

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 05:36 PM

Hello,
why do endos not measure GNRH? This upsets me.

Does GNRH need to be measured in the morning like testosterone? Could an intern also measure it?

And can you tell me what a normal, low, high GNRH would mean?

#57 udinesio

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:57 AM

Hello,
why do endos not measure GNRH? This upsets me.

Does GNRH need to be measured in the morning like testosterone? Could an intern also measure it?

And can you tell me what a normal, low, high GNRH would mean?


That's one of the most important things to measure if you got secondary hypogonadism. Here's a detailed description:

http://www.royalfree...uk/pdf/LHRH.pdf

The test is basically supposed to test your ability to respond to GnRH. In your case normal and high means the problem is in your hypothalamus. Low would mean the problem is in your pituitary gland.

#58 dunbar

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 04:16 PM

@ udi

I did this test. When I was injected with the stuff my LH went up. This shows that LH can be stimulated. But this doesn't really help me.
My LH is simply way too low.

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#59 NuMystic

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 09:47 AM

 

 

If you have low T, as it sounds, you are not going to get anywhere with herbal supplements. The Nebido is not so bad, why not try it for a bit and see how you do? You won't get a lung embolism if the injection is done correctly, as doctors and nurses are trained to do (basically they just have to not inject in a vein, which they check by simply pulling out on the syringe a bit before injecting to see that no blood comes out).

The great majority of men on replacement doses of testosterone don't need an aromatase inhibitor. Aromatase inhibitors are more useful for bodybuilders who inject very large doses of testosterone. They are not usually needed for T replacement - that is a bit of an internet myth.

If you don't like it, you can just stop.

If you prefer something that is out of your system quickly if you don't like it, why not ask for a testosterone cream or gel? No injections and no ups and downs.

And why exactly wouldn't herbal supplements work?

 


Because none have been proved to work. In fact, all the ones people recommend have been proven NOT to work. And herbs are mot safer just because they are natural - in fact herbs can be dangerous too.

 

 

I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to post for the benefit of anyone else that stumbles across this Googling "ginger cholesterol study". (which is the subject of the paper, rather than Testosterone)

 

 

Investigation of the effect of ginger on the lipid levels. A double blind controlled clinical trial.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18813412

 

 

 

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: 

To study the effect of fine powder of ginger on lipid level in volunteer patients.

METHODS: 

This is a double blind controlled clinical trial study in 2 cardiac clinics Cardiac Disease Clinic, Babol, north of Iran, between April to May 2004. We randomly divided the patients with hyperlipidemia into 2 groups, treatment group (receiving ginger capsules 3 g/day in 3 divided doses) and placebo group (lactose capsule 3 g/day in 3 divided doses) for 45 days. All subjects with diabetes mellitus, hypothyroidism, nephrotic syndrome, and alcohol drinking, pregnancy and peptic ulcer were excluded. Lipid concentrations profile before and after treatment was measured by enzymatic assay.

RESULTS: 

Forty-five patients in the treatment group and 40 patients in placebo group participated in this study. There was a significant reduce in triglyceride, cholesterol, low density lipoprotein (LDL), very low density lipoprotein (VLDL), levels of before and after study separately in each group (p<0.05). Mean changes in triglyceride and cholesterol levels of ginger group were significantly higher than placebo group (p<0.05). Mean reduction in LDL level and increase in high density lipoprotein level of ginger group were higher than the placebo group, but in VLDL level of placebo was higher than ginger (p>0.05).

CONCLUSION: 

The results show that ginger has a significant lipid lowering effect compared to placebo.

 


Edited by NuMystic, 24 September 2016 - 09:49 AM.

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