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Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

resistant starch

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32 replies to this topic

#1 zorba990

Posted 21 December 2013 - 08:36 PM


Anyone with blood sugar, digestive, or inflammatory conditions should be paying attention to intestinal flora. It turns out that eating zero effective carb resistant starch is extremely helpful in this regard. Perhaps even more so than probiotics or other prebiotics like FOS.

If this interests you, I'd encourage you to check out the numerous posts on this subject over at freetheanimal.com. Potato starch is cheap, diabetes is expensive.

http://freetheanimal...html#more-21335
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#2 misterE Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Texas
  • no

Posted 22 December 2013 - 06:01 PM

Not just resistant-starch... but starch in general. Walter Kempner cured type-2 diabetics long ago with his infamous rice-diet, which consisted of white-rice and fruit.

Diabetes is virtually non-existent or extremely rare in regions where starch-based diets are consumed as in Asia, the Middle-East, Africa and Southern-America. However when these populations migrate to the westernized-nations and eat fewer grains and more animal-fats and oil… they quickly become diabetic.


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#3 zorba990 Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

Posted 22 December 2013 - 07:34 PM

Not just resistant-starch... but starch in general. Walter Kempner cured type-2 diabetics long ago with his infamous rice-diet, which consisted of white-rice and fruit.

Diabetes is virtually non-existent or extremely rare in regions where starch-based diets are consumed as in Asia, the Middle-East, Africa and Southern-America. However when these populations migrate to the westernized-nations and eat fewer grains and more animal-fats and oil… they quickly become diabetic.



You are missing the point. You are hung up on the glucose versus fructose loading part and not paying attention as to WHY it works. Gut biome, glucagon versus insulin, inflammation reduction. Caveman starch was RAW. Grains are not needed and are inflammatory for many where they can wreck the gut leading to dysbiosis and....wait for it.....diabetes. aka Wheat belly.

Resistant starch turns into anti inflammatory fatty acids in the colon which makes a resistant starch diet a HIgh Fat Diet!
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#4 misterE Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Texas
  • no

Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:55 PM

Resistant starch acts like a probiotic and a type of fiber which is partly fermented into acetate. Now acetate is a potent inhibitor of lipolysis, and anything that inhibits lipolysis is going to increase insulin-sensitivity by lowering the amount of circulating FFA’s.

Drinking alcohol actually has the same effect.

But you have to eat carbohydrates in order to inhibit lipolysis and lower FFA’s. That is because carbohydrates stimulate insulin and insulin inhibits lipolysis. If you eat a high-fat diet you reduce your insulin-secretion and lipolysis stays uninhibited and you get an elevation of insulin-desensitizing FFA’s.

Fat-oxidation (burning fat as a primary fuel) shatters carbohydrate-metabolism because both carbohydrate and fat compete with one another as energy substrate.

By the way, glucagon levels in diabetics are actually substantially elevated because in insulin-resistant states such as diabetes, insulin is unable to inhibit glucagon secretion.

Edited by misterE, 22 December 2013 - 09:56 PM.

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#5 zorba990 Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

Posted 22 December 2013 - 10:26 PM

You don't need to eat a lot of carbs to be insulin sensitive.

You do need to have an not inflamed gut and proper array of bacteria there.
Anything, including grains for many people, that causes gut inflammation is long term counter productive to health.

Many High carb people spend too much time hungry, then gorging on carbs, and then secreting insulin and not enough time provoking glucagon from exercise, lower carb intake, and proper gut fermentation. It may work for a while but if the area under the curve is high enough (like cooked white potato solo in a meal) you will exhaust the mechanism. In diabetics the mechanism is already inflamed/exhausted which is why low carb, exercise and other things that balance glucagon with insulin production (a little bit on either side) works well -- I've seen it --- grassfed meat, vegetables, low sugar fruits being the simplest triad. The stressed system slowly recovers.

Resistant starch speeds up the healing.

Balance.



Determinants of the impaired secretion of glucagon-like peptide-1 in type 2 diabetic patients.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11502801
"

We conclude that the meal-related glucagon-like peptide-1 response in type 2 diabetes is decreased

"
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#6 misterE Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Texas
  • no

Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:47 PM

Lancet. 1975 Jan 4;1(7897):14-6.
The essential role of glucagon in the pathogenesis of diabetes mellitus.
Unger RH, Orci L.
Abstract
The following evidence suggests that diabetes mellitus may not be the simple consequence of relative or absolute insulin deficiency by itself, but may require the presence of glucagon: (1) relative or absolute hyperglucogonaemia has been identified in every form of endogenous hyperglycaemia, including total pancreatectomy in dogs; (2) insulin lack in the absence of glucagon does not cause endogenous hyperglycaemia, but when endogenous or exogenous glucagon is present, it quickly appears, irrespective of insulin levels at the time. These facts are compatible with a bihormonal-abnormality hypothesis, which holds that the major consequence of absolute or relative insulin lack is glucose underutilisation and that absolute or relative glucagon excess is the principal factor in the over-production of glucose in diabetes.



Compr Ther. 1982 Jan;8(1):53-9.
The role of glucagon in diabetes.
Unger RH, Orci L.
Abstract
The current understanding of diabetes points to a bihormonal abnormality in which the level of glucagon is inappropriately high relative to the level (or activity) of insulin, causing a rate of hepatic glucose production that is high relative to glucose utilization. This imbalance can be corrected by increasing insulin or reducing glucagon. At the present time only the former approach constitutes a feasible and practical means of managing the diabetic patient. Whether or not concomitant suppression of glucagon will provide a further therapeutic advantage remains to be determined.




Diabetes Obes Metab. 2011 Oct;13 Suppl 1:126-32.
The role of dysregulated glucagon secretion in type 2 diabetes.
D'Alessio D.
Abstract
Excessive production of glucose by the liver contributes to fasting and postprandial hyperglycaemia, hallmarks of type 2 diabetes. A central feature of this pathologic response is insufficient hepatic insulin action, due to a combination of insulin resistance and impaired β-cell function. However, a case can be made that glucagon also plays a role in dysregulated hepatic glucose production and abnormal glucose homeostasis. Plasma glucagon concentrations are inappropriately elevated in diabetic individuals, and α-cell suppression by hyperglycaemia is blunted. Experimental evidence suggests that this contributes to greater rates of hepatic glucose production in the fasting state and attenuated reduction after meals. Recent studies in animal models indicate that reduction of glucagon action can have profound effects to mitigate hyperglycaemia even in the face of severe hypoinsulinaemia. While there are no specific treatments for diabetic patients yet available that act specifically on the glucagon signalling pathway, newer agents including glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) receptor agonists and dipeptidyl peptidase-4 (DPP-4) inhibitors reduce plasma glucagon and this is thought to contribute to their action to lower blood glucose. The α-cell and glucagon receptor remain tempting targets for novel diabetes treatments, but it is important to understand the magnitude of benefit new strategies would provide as preclinical models suggest that chronic interference with glucagon action could entail adverse effects as well.

Edited by misterE, 22 December 2013 - 11:56 PM.

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#7 misterE Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Texas
  • no

Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:55 PM







Many High carb people spend too much time hungry, then gorging on carbs, and then secreting insulin and not enough time provoking glucagon







Provoking glucagon is harmful because it will convert your muscle-mass into blood-sugar. And that blood-sugar won’t be able to be stored out of the bloodstream (where it is harmful) into organs as glycogen (where it is safe).

What people really need to do is start provoking insulin (not glucagon).
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#8 zorba990 Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:20 AM







Many High carb people spend too much time hungry, then gorging on carbs, and then secreting insulin and not enough time provoking glucagon







Provoking glucagon is harmful because it will convert your muscle-mass into blood-sugar. And that blood-sugar won’t be able to be stored out of the bloodstream (where it is harmful) into organs as glycogen (where it is safe).

What people really need to do is start provoking insulin (not glucagon).


No.

Glucagon is (also) healing to the pancreas, and an ideal thing to stimulate (for) fat loss. (This is one of the many reasons why running works better for fat loss, because you are more likely to go hypo, causing glucagon release, which will turn on fat burning. If you delay gorging on carbs for a bit afterwards you will accelerate fat burning. As long as you have an ample supply of aminos in your blood then muscle won't be broken down).:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11108273

Glucagon-like peptide-1 induces cell proliferation and pancreatic-duodenum homeobox-1 expression and increases endocrine cell mass in the pancreas of old, glucose-intolerant rats.

"Total pancreatic insulin content also increased from 0.55 +/- 0.02 to 1.32 +/- 0.11 microg/mg total pancreatic protein. Therefore, GLP-1 would seem to be a unique therapy that can stimulate pancreatic cell proliferation and beta-cell differentiation in the pancreas of rodents."



From
http://www.2buildmus...d-building.html
"During fat loss diets, el­evated glucagon levels are important because it causes the burning of stored fat for fuel."


How to spare muscle during cardio without over-carbing:
from http://www.ergo-log....asarginine.html
"A cardio session – especially when done after strength training – has lots of positive health effects, but even low-intensity cardio exercise breaks down muscle tissue. For strength athletes cardio is a double-edged sword. Researchers at Otsuka Pharmaceutical in Japan think you can make one side of the sword less sharp by taking 2 g BCAAs and 0.5 g arginine."
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#9 misterE Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Texas
  • no

Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:47 AM

No.




How do you explain the fact that glucagon is elevated in diabetics and that these high levels of glucagon promote the overproduction of glucose from the liver (gluconeogenesis) leading to hyperglycemia?

You really need to find an answer for these questions before advocating glucagon.


The reason why diabetics have elevated blood-sugar is because they have too much glucagon and their insulin is unable to store away blood-sugar as glycogen. What don’t you understand about this? I really want to clear this up.
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#10 zorba990 Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:28 AM

Diabetes is caused by inflammation leading to organ damage.
Balance of insulin and glucagon is the way to go. Diabetics who restrict excessive carbs can restore this balance. Both hormones help to heal damage when produced endogenously in their appropriate amounts.

You can optimize things like fat loss and/or muscle building by stimulating these hormones at the appropriate time and in reasonable amounts.

Proof that switching off inflammation cures diabetes:
http://www.diabetesi...article&id=4467
"Strikingly, injection of the neuropeptide substance P cleared islet inflammation in NOD mice within a day and independently normalized the elevated insulin resistance normally associated with the disease. The two effects synergized to reverse diabetes without severely toxic immunosuppression."

This is also what restoring the gut biome helps with.....

Edited by zorba990, 23 December 2013 - 01:31 AM.

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#11 misterE Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Texas
  • no

Posted 23 December 2013 - 03:34 AM

Balance of insulin and glucagon is the way to go. Diabetics who restrict excessive carbs can restore this balance.





If a diabetic restricts their carb intake, glucagon would continue to rise ever higher, further exacerbating the problem! Excessive blood-sugar is caused not by carbohydrate consumption or even sugar consumption, but rather excess hepatic production (excessive gluconeogenesis). Of course eating insulinogenic carbohydrates inhibits gluconeogenesis and promotes glycogen synthesis.



The video below is probably the best explanation of diabetes I have ever heard, although I don’t agree with everything said below, I feel this is a very accurate description of uncontrolled diabetes:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fudv7vddzaE

Edited by misterE, 23 December 2013 - 03:35 AM.

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#12 zorba990 Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:02 AM

"If a diabetic restricts their carb intake, glucagon would continue to rise ever higher, further exacerbating the problem! Excessive blood-sugar is caused not by carbohydrate consumption or even sugar consumption, but rather excess hepatic production (excessive gluconeogenesis). Of course eating insulinogenic carbohydrates inhibits gluconeogenesis and promotes glycogen synthesis."

This isnt what happens, at least not to type 2's . See my previous ref type 2 has impaired glucagon as well. Lower carbs grains and inflammation. Raise resistant starch.
You may be lucky if you pick a high rs carbohydrate source and it subsequently converts to butyrate (healing anti inflammatory fat) in the colon as this will give the needed fullness to avoid overeating. Mass consumption of high glycemic carbs will increase inflammation and drive more hunger leading to weight gain, more inflammation, vicious cycle. Sugar is the original addiction, and a bad rollercoaster ride for the body. With enough fiber and resistant starch you can blunt this somewhat but also lowering carbs will speed up healing. Doctors arent curing diabetes with their complex carb grain nonsense.
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#13 misterE Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Texas
  • no

Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:52 AM

This isnt what happens, at least not to type 2's .



Wrong… look at the three studies I posted.



type 2 has impaired glucagon as well.



Wrong… you never showed a study showing type-2 diabetics have lower glucagon. You did however cite a study showing type-2 diabetics had lower GLP-1 which is an incertin. Incertins actually stimulate insulin-secretion, so of course GLP-1 is going to be lower in diabetics…good grief!



Doctors arent curing diabetes with their complex carb grain nonsense.



Now that you made that statement I realize that my time has probably expired here on this thread. I’m no longer going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise. I did enjoy debating you however, hopefully someone will learn something from this. Good luck zorba990.

Edited by misterE, 23 December 2013 - 05:00 AM.

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#14 Andey Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Kiev, Ukraine

Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:39 AM

Sorry for interrupting discussion, but what are preferable food sources for resistance starch ?
I found oats in the wiki list of r. starch sources. Assuming that I eat cup of oats and oat brans every day is it enough ?

Edited by Andey, 23 December 2013 - 11:46 AM.

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#15 DAMI Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Europe

Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:22 PM

What exactly is the mechanism by which resistant starch lowers blood glucose?
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#16 zorba990 Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:20 AM



" The glucagon response to hypoglycemia, which fulfills a primary role toward restoring the plasma glucose level, is blunted or absent in most patients with type I diabetes. "
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1021855/

Which makes sense given the inflammation the organ is under, and given enough time I would expect the same for type 2's.

Right now Unmodified Potato Starch is what most people are using over at the free the animal discussions.
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#17 Gerrans Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:UK

Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:52 PM

What exactly is the mechanism by which resistant starch lowers blood glucose?


There are lots of theories about it, but in my opinion it is probably very simple. If resistant starch does not digest in the small intestine, then it does not stimulate glucose production. So if it replaces glycemic food, the overall glycemic response will be less. It is very satiating, and so it leads to less food intake overall as well, I find.

Sorry for interrupting discussion, but what are preferable food sources for resistance starch ?
I found oats in the wiki list of r. starch sources. Assuming that I eat cup of oats and oat brans every day is it enough ?


It is difficult to get a difference-making amount of resistant starch into the body without supplementing it--the cheapest way is with potato starch. Oats are a very good source, but only if you eat them cold. One nice way to get resistant starch, in my opinion, is to make a muesli of cold rolled oats, nuts, raisins, etc., with a couple of tablespoons of potato starch stirred in. That may sound a dubious combination, but potato starch tastes lovely with oats--almost like icing sugar mixed in-especially with a dash of cream. This concoction brings a big enough hit of resistant starch to benefit one's bowels. I do not know about diabetes, but I should think it would help with that too.

Edited by Gerrans, 24 December 2013 - 06:54 PM.

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#18 Andey Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Kiev, Ukraine

Posted 24 December 2013 - 07:32 PM

It is difficult to get a difference-making amount of resistant starch into the body without supplementing it--the cheapest way is with potato starch. Oats are a very good source, but only if you eat them cold. One nice way to get resistant starch, in my opinion, is to make a muesli of cold rolled oats, nuts, raisins, etc., with a couple of tablespoons of potato starch stirred in. That may sound a dubious combination, but potato starch tastes lovely with oats--almost like icing sugar mixed in-especially with a dash of cream. This concoction brings a big enough hit of resistant starch to benefit one's bowels. I do not know about diabetes, but I should think it would help with that too.


Thanks Gerrans )
Shame that I cannot use regular cooked oats as source. I try to keep my life simple in food aspect and mixing meals with potato starch is not completely what I like to do....maybe occasionally)
I will spend some searching further for some compromise.
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#19 Brett Black Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Australia

Posted 25 December 2013 - 05:44 AM

Grains are not needed and are inflammatory for many where they can wreck the gut leading to dysbiosis and....wait for it.....diabetes. aka Wheat belly.


When I search "grain" + "gut" + "inflammation" on Pubmed I get few results, many of them apparently(at first glance) actually reporting the benefits of wholegrains. Can you point me to some good peer-reviewed science showing this supposed connection between grains, inflammation and the gut?
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#20 zorba990 Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

Posted 26 December 2013 - 06:28 AM


Grains are not needed and are inflammatory for many where they can wreck the gut leading to dysbiosis and....wait for it.....diabetes. aka Wheat belly.


When I search "grain" + "gut" + "inflammation" on Pubmed I get few results, many of them apparently(at first glance) actually reporting the benefits of wholegrains. Can you point me to some good peer-reviewed science showing this supposed connection between grains, inflammation and the gut?


Dietary gluten alters the balance of pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory cytokines in T cells of BALB/c mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22913724

Gluten-free diet reduces adiposity, inflammation and insulin resistance associated with the induction of PPAR-alpha and PPAR-gamma expression.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23253599


http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2425767/

And a bunch more here:
http://paleohacks.co...liac-folks.html

Edited by zorba990, 26 December 2013 - 06:31 AM.

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#21 Brett Black Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Australia

Posted 28 December 2013 - 02:15 AM

Search "whole grain" on pubmed and you will find masses of studies concluding that diets higher in whole grains are associated with lower morbidity, lower mortality and *reduced incidence* of diabetes. This is one of the reasons why government nutritional bodies all around the world recommend whole grains as part of a healthy diet. The expert consensus is that best current evidence suggests whole grains are beneficial for the majority of the population.
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#22 Hebbeh Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

Posted 28 December 2013 - 03:28 AM

Search "whole grain" on pubmed and you will find masses of studies concluding that diets higher in whole grains are associated with lower morbidity, lower mortality and *reduced incidence* of diabetes. This is one of the reasons why government nutritional bodies all around the world recommend whole grains as part of a healthy diet. The expert consensus is that best current evidence suggests whole grains are beneficial for the majority of the population.


Lower morbidity, lower mortality, and reduced incidence of diabetes as compared to what though? As compared to refined grains? As in the SAD diet?
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#23 Brett Black Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Australia

Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:42 AM


Search "whole grain" on pubmed and you will find masses of studies concluding that diets higher in whole grains are associated with lower morbidity, lower mortality and *reduced incidence* of diabetes. This is one of the reasons why government nutritional bodies all around the world recommend whole grains as part of a healthy diet. The expert consensus is that best current evidence suggests whole grains are beneficial for the majority of the population.


Lower morbidity, lower mortality, and reduced incidence of diabetes as compared to what though? As compared to refined grains? As in the SAD diet?


As compared to less whole grains.

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#24 Hebbeh Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:52 AM



Search "whole grain" on pubmed and you will find masses of studies concluding that diets higher in whole grains are associated with lower morbidity, lower mortality and *reduced incidence* of diabetes. This is one of the reasons why government nutritional bodies all around the world recommend whole grains as part of a healthy diet. The expert consensus is that best current evidence suggests whole grains are beneficial for the majority of the population.


Lower morbidity, lower mortality, and reduced incidence of diabetes as compared to what though? As compared to refined grains? As in the SAD diet?


As compared to less whole grains.


Really? Because the less whole grains were replaced with refined grains? Or what were the less whole grains replaced with? Certainly not by replacing the less whole grains with vegetables?
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#25 Brett Black Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Australia

Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:04 AM




Search "whole grain" on pubmed and you will find masses of studies concluding that diets higher in whole grains are associated with lower morbidity, lower mortality and *reduced incidence* of diabetes. This is one of the reasons why government nutritional bodies all around the world recommend whole grains as part of a healthy diet. The expert consensus is that best current evidence suggests whole grains are beneficial for the majority of the population.


Lower morbidity, lower mortality, and reduced incidence of diabetes as compared to what though? As compared to refined grains? As in the SAD diet?


As compared to less whole grains.


Really? Because the less whole grains were replaced with refined grains? Or what were the less whole grains replaced with? Certainly not by replacing the less whole grains with vegetables?


The study designs involving dietary whole grains research are heterogenous in nature of course, and many/most don't examine singular food substitution.
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#26 DAMI Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:Europe

Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:29 PM

Do you think that soaking rolled oats over night is a problem as long as I don't heat them?
Do steel cut oats contain even more Resistant Starch??
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#27 Strelok Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

  • Location:USA

Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:18 AM

I just learned about this Resistant Starch thing, and it's very interesting to me. I just picked up a one pound bag of Bob's Red Mill potato starch for $3.69, and took 4-tablespoons of it mixed in water. It has almost no taste, and was easy to consume. I look foward to seeing the results of its potential alteration of my microbiota.

This article, which I found on another Longecity thread, was what perked my interest: http://freetheanimal...comparison.html
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#28 APBT Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

Posted 06 March 2014 - 04:39 AM

Here's a list of (RS) resistant starch in foods:

Attached Files


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#29 adamh Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

Posted 13 March 2014 - 11:14 PM

I have started using raw potato starch, I take about 30gm per day and the only bad side effect is elevated gas production but that was mostly present at 40gm per day. I feel good with it and plan to keep on.
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#30 APBT Re: Possible Diabetes Cure With Resistant Starch

Posted 17 March 2014 - 08:34 PM

Plantain flour is another option for increasing resistant starch. http://www.barryfarm.com/nutri_info/flours/plantainflour.htm
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