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Ehh, starting on benzo's. How to take them while being able to live without them?

benzos gaba tolerance

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#1 Reformed-Redan

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 10:39 PM


Man, I just can't fight with my anxiety. It's out of control. I'm starting on lorazepam 1mg. I just want to find out how should I take it so that I can still function in the future without it? I usually develop tolerance very quickly and am really scared of the side effects. Any advice much appreciated.

#2 formergenius

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 10:46 PM

Perhaps consider using Clonazepam instead, as well as using it "in case of fire".
What happened to the novel anxiolytic group buy?

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#3 Reformed-Redan

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 10:56 PM

Perhaps consider using Clonazepam instead, as well as using it "in case of fire".
What happened to the novel anxiolytic group buy?

Atm, there is no time to produce the compounds listed in the thread. Maybe in a couple of months. IDK, I think it's a bitter pill I just have to swallow.

#4 golden1

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:28 AM

take into consideration the halflife (9-16hrs) and make sure you don't dose often enough to keep a significant amount in your body without a break in between.
this is obvious, but all I can think of. also that benzo is probably not a bad choice with its medium halflife. clonazepam would stay in your system longer after each dose
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#5 Reformed-Redan

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 01:06 AM

take into consideration the halflife (9-16hrs) and make sure you don't dose often enough to keep a significant amount in your body without a break in between.
this is obvious, but all I can think of. also that benzo is probably not a bad choice with its medium halflife. clonazepam would stay in your system longer after each dose

Are there any ways to counteract the desensitization of GABA receptors while on benzos so that the withdrawl isnt hellish?

#6 Absent

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 01:57 AM

I've seen a lot of people go down the path of taking Benzos daily and they pretty much became assholes to all their friends, stealing without a second thought, etc. These were good people as well. Honestly if I ever find a friend taking benzos daily whether perscription or not I give them an ultimatum to either stop(I'll help them), or I'm not being their friend. I've seen too many people get totally ruined by benzos. It's sad.

All addiction side effects aside. Dependency is the last thing you need to worry about. Benzos are horrible. I strongly suggest you try as many alternatives as you can before resorting to benzos. Exercise, abstinence, charity, confidence boosting, whatever. Really. You do not want to get started on Benzos. Maybe I'm just unlucky but out of ten people I've known throughout my life to start on benzos, they all ended up becoming very undesirable people. Benzos just make you so apathetic. They literally destroy your personality.
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#7 Multicultural Harmony

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 01:57 AM

Sorry yada..... benzos :unsure:
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#8 Reformed-Redan

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 02:17 AM

I've seen a lot of people go down the path of taking Benzos daily and they pretty much became assholes to all their friends, stealing without a second thought, etc. These were good people as well. Honestly if I ever find a friend taking benzos daily whether perscription or not I give them an ultimatum to either stop(I'll help them), or I'm not being their friend. I've seen too many people get totally ruined by benzos. It's sad.

All addiction side effects aside. Dependency is the last thing you need to worry about. Benzos are horrible. I strongly suggest you try as many alternatives as you can before resorting to benzos. Exercise, abstinence, charity, confidence boosting, whatever. Really. You do not want to get started on Benzos. Maybe I'm just unlucky but out of ten people I've known throughout my life to start on benzos, they all ended up becoming very undesirable people. Benzos just make you so apathetic. They literally destroy your personality.

But, they make you soo calmmm! Just popped a benzo 1h ago. Feels good man.

#9 cmarshall

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 03:02 AM

I can’t help but agree with what Siro said above. About 6 years ago, I went to a walk in clinic for treatment of issues around anxiety (social, and generalized). I rarely ever took prescription drugs, hence going to a walk in clinic as I didn’t even have a family doctor. I started off on lorazepam 0.5 mg on an as needed basis. Over a one year period, my tolerance increased, and I started doctor shopping, taking in excess of 20 mg per day (in addition to clonazepam, alprazolam, and diazepam – anything I could get my hands on). I went from being a straight A student in the honours program (Economics) with recommendations for graduate school, to skipping final exams and missing classes, eventually getting kicked out of the honours program. This went on for about three years until I finally went to rehab to treat my addiction to benzodiazepines.

After cleaning myself up, I did a fairly intensive (18 week, 4 hours per evening, 5 days per week) group therapy program (psychoanalytic psychodynamic group psychotherapy). I have to say, I am a total advocate of high quality intensive therapy – it has changed my life. I am back in university (at age 30!) finishing the last quarter of my undergrad in economics, I’m gainfully employed, I have a healthy social life, and my issues with anxiety and mood have practically been eliminated (thank you to high quality therapy). In my opinion, anxiety is a symptom of blocking / avoiding uncomfortable emotions that need to be felt and processed in order to make progress on the level of the psyche. Benzos will help a person avoid facing / feeling unpleasant emotions, but at a cost to a person’s emotional development. I realize this is a generalization - just referring to my personal experience and opinion.

I’m not suggesting that you will automatically become a doctor shopping, prescription drug addict, however this isn’t something anyone plans to become – it creeps up on you slowly and happens over time. Benzodiazepines are highly addictive. Before deciding whether or not to rely on benzos, I recommend being honest with yourself and doing some serious cost – benefit analysis. Does the benefit outweigh the cost? For me, the answer is no. Just my two cents.

I noticed that you have an interest in other controlled substances (form some of your other posts) like adderall and modafinil. To me, this suggests that you probably are not the best candidate to be regularly consuming an addictive drug.

Edited by cmarshall, 30 December 2013 - 03:09 AM.

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#10 Absent

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 03:07 AM

I've seen a lot of people go down the path of taking Benzos daily and they pretty much became assholes to all their friends, stealing without a second thought, etc. These were good people as well. Honestly if I ever find a friend taking benzos daily whether perscription or not I give them an ultimatum to either stop(I'll help them), or I'm not being their friend. I've seen too many people get totally ruined by benzos. It's sad.

All addiction side effects aside. Dependency is the last thing you need to worry about. Benzos are horrible. I strongly suggest you try as many alternatives as you can before resorting to benzos. Exercise, abstinence, charity, confidence boosting, whatever. Really. You do not want to get started on Benzos. Maybe I'm just unlucky but out of ten people I've known throughout my life to start on benzos, they all ended up becoming very undesirable people. Benzos just make you so apathetic. They literally destroy your personality.

But, they make you soo calmmm! Just popped a benzo 1h ago. Feels good man.



Hell yeah, they do make you feel good, but that's the problem. Soon they'll make you feel good about things you used to morally oppose. Stealing from your friends. Hitting women. Etc. I know these sorts of things are talked about in those above the influence comcerials but with Benzos its the real deal. I've seen it happen. It really does change a person. Once and a while some benzos recreationally are no issue. They make you feel good, feel comfortable, they take away your anxiety. Overtime this feeling spreads to many things.... and inevitably bad things.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not opposed to using any drugs recreationally. I'd rather my best friend shoot heroin and smoke meth recreationally than to take benzos on a daily basis. At least with the former you have some degree of control and choice but once you adopt to a "daily basis" perscription to help with some medical issue then that's another story.

Edited by Siro, 30 December 2013 - 03:09 AM.

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#11 nowayout

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:11 AM

I've seen a lot of people go down the path of taking Benzos daily and they pretty much became assholes to all their friends, stealing without a second thought, etc. These were good people as well. Honestly if I ever find a friend taking benzos daily whether perscription or not I give them an ultimatum to either stop(I'll help them), or I'm not being their friend. I've seen too many people get totally ruined by benzos. It's sad.

All addiction side effects aside. Dependency is the last thing you need to worry about. Benzos are horrible. I strongly suggest you try as many alternatives as you can before resorting to benzos. Exercise, abstinence, charity, confidence boosting, whatever. Really. You do not want to get started on Benzos. Maybe I'm just unlucky but out of ten people I've known throughout my life to start on benzos, they all ended up becoming very undesirable people. Benzos just make you so apathetic. They literally destroy your personality.

But, they make you soo calmmm! Just popped a benzo 1h ago. Feels good man.



Hell yeah, they do make you feel good, but that's the problem. Soon they'll make you feel good about things you used to morally oppose. Stealing from your friends. Hitting women. Etc.


No, I don't think that is a common problem, despite your unfortunate experience, which is unusual IMO.

But tolerance is a real concern. One often ends up just having to increase the dose every day or two to recapture that good feeling. Benzos are seldom a sustainable solution to any problem, they can work in an emergency but and over a few weeks they are not only not better than placebo, they perform WORSE than placebo. In other words, if someone wants to become MORE anxious, they should keep using benzos.

It is a real pity, since benzos are the only drug that sometimes give me really good and restorative sleep.
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#12 golden1

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:44 PM

Benzos do make you do stupid things, but that is almost entirely when you take more than you need(recreational) and/or mix them with another drug. Also, I disagree that they lose effectiveness fast. Even after tapering from 3mg clonazepam to .5mg, I still can feel anxiety reduction(after dealing with the w/d and evening out on that dose).

I also dont notice any permanent benzo-induced negatives from being on them 3 years or from almost tapering off. I get horrible side effects for 2-3 weeks after lowering the dose and then all slowly goes back to normal. The worst thing about them is definitely the rebound effect and desire to take recreational doses. I don't know of any way to slow the rate of mental/physical dependency.

I usually recommend to not take benzos especially if you have enough to become dependent because the w/d is all encompassing-ly terrible, so maybe don't.. but if you can stick to as-needed dosing with a week-ish long break in between every few doses, then you can still have some of the benefits when you really need them without much risk. Keep in mind you will get dependent much much faster than they lose effectiveness, so dont use that as a guage.

edit: that really calm(almost perfect) feeling does go away kind of fast, but the actual anxiety reducing part stays for a long time (over a year @ one dose) (in my experience and a couple others)

Edited by golden1, 30 December 2013 - 06:19 PM.


#13 Werper

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 06:29 PM

I slippery slope for sure, I would highly recommend you stay clear of benzo's, I was ignorant to them and used 2mg at night to sleep for a period of 2 months. I suffered protracted withdrawals -light sensitivity and overall feeling of shittyness. I barely slept for 2 weeks and was to the point where I thought I had permanently screwed up my sleep pattern and was now going to be an insomniac for life!
If you choose this path you will probably be looking back in retrospect just wishing you could get back to the point of before when you started using them. Nothing to mess with, imo.
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#14 Multicultural Harmony

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 06:42 PM

Zaleplon 10-15mg once a week to reset disrupted sleep patterns is about as far as I'd ever go with z drugs. Tolerance to zaleplon for me occurs after 2 nights of consecutive use. This is about all these kinds of drugs can offer.

#15 lourdaud

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 07:12 PM

Have you tried lamotrigine?

#16 nupi

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 01:41 PM

Hell yeah, they do make you feel good, but that's the problem. Soon they'll make you feel good about things you used to morally oppose. Stealing from your friends. Hitting women. Etc. I know these sorts of things are talked about in those above the influence comcerials but with Benzos its the real deal. I've seen it happen. It really does change a person. Once and a while some benzos recreationally are no issue. They make you feel good, feel comfortable, they take away your anxiety. Overtime this feeling spreads to many things.... and inevitably bad things.


I call BS on this. The only bad thing that happened to me on benzos was badly scratching a car (in a parking lot, no danger to anyone) which would mainly suggest not to operate heavy machinery (which seems obvious in hind sight but surprisingly the prescribing doc did not think so).

I never heard that people start stealing or hitting people or any weird shit like that because of benzos. If anything, they probably would NOT CARE ENOUGH to even bother stealing stuff.
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#17 Reformed-Redan

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 08:11 PM

Have you tried lamotrigine?

Haven't. Gonna try it first before I start poppin benzo's. Thanks for the suggestion.
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#18 Multicultural Harmony

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 05:31 AM

yada,
Agomelatine might help (have you tried yet?), barring a bad drug combo, of course.. since you are currently employing the polypharma (kitchen-sink) approach.

#19 zeropoint

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 12:44 PM

As with Adderal/amphetamines, lowest dose possible never everyday....

same with alcohol also....

Edited by zeropoint, 01 January 2014 - 12:47 PM.


#20 BlueCloud

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 04:08 PM

Hell yeah, they do make you feel good, but that's the problem. Soon they'll make you feel good about things you used to morally oppose. Stealing from your friends. Hitting women.

mmm.. Nothing of that sort happened while I was on benzos many years ago. And I was through a few of them for a few months. It was mostly the sleepiness and the cognitive issues ( bad memory, bad focus, etc) , they made me dumb overall . I just couldn't function with them despite the great anxiolytic effectiveness.

#21 nupi

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 02:32 PM

mmm.. Nothing of that sort happened while I was on benzos many years ago. And I was through a few of them for a few months. It was mostly the sleepiness and the cognitive issues ( bad memory, bad focus, etc) , they made me dumb overall . I just couldn't function with them despite the great anxiolytic effectiveness.


Agreed, if anything, they zombify you. Very little risk of going around hitting people in that state (you could not be bothered to do so, for starters).

Nooow, if people start mixing benzos with other stuff, a lot of weird shit might happen (booze and benzos are a nasty mix, for one)...

#22 Major Legend

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 05:54 PM

As a person who took low dose benzos daily for around 2 years whilst recovering from brain damage here are some points to consider:

- benzos certainly kill anxiety and brain noise so they are good short term solution, or use when required in moderation (not so different from alcohol or cigarettes and certainly not as hazardous to health), especially for things like excessive worry and paranoia.

- I was able to use them for a long time without losing effectiveness because I would take breaks 2 days every week, sometimes I would take 2-3 weeks without them which greatly reduced my tolerance from developing.

- longer half life doesn't mean better, personally I prefer a shorter half life e.g. xanax and I have never felt it was druggy or addictive, my dosage are average 0.125 to 0.5mg max. Clonazepam lasts way too long, I don't need antianxiety all day long

- long term benzo use will create tolerance, so don't count on being able to be on it daily for life, it becomes addictive at higher doses and like many drugs unfortunately the sides begin to outweigh the benefits, its not so much the problem in increasing the dose, but dosage increases bring about diminishing returns and increase of sides like forgetfullness, doing things you don't want to do etc.

- everyones brains different, I would argue whilst benzos make normal people act totally weird, it actually has the effects of making people with high baseline anxiety more normal. If benzos are making you acting strange they certainly arn't for you.


- if you talk to a doctor they would probably recommend SSRIs, I can't say for others but low dose short half life benzo gives me a sense of control, compared to SSRIs which leave u permanently drugged.

- benzos don't actually make you more together in front of others, if you feel this way its just a lie, it just numbs whatever you are feeling. Benzos don't do anything to improve your people skill, working skills, confidence etc. People can still tell your abilities and inabilities.

- they do however allow you to do things you wouldn't be able to do with a clear concious, like lying, talking out of your ass etc

- finally you have to ask yourself, do you really need this? are you just taking a drug because numbing your thoughts make you feel better? Have you been able to live without benzos before certain life changing non health related issues happened? if thats the case then you don't need it daily. Having born anxiety usually means you just have a noisy brain, and having a noisy brain only turns into anxiety if you are negative or uncomfortable with who you are.

I was able to break out of it by realising this, I had no choice really - my tolerance was developing (even with breaks) and I was not willing to increase the dosage, I was also experiencing increasing sides from taking even small doses - a kind of retardation, but once I stop taking them I felt a liberation, my mental speed is up, I had not even noticed that taking benzos had slowed my responses down.

I am an anxious person too, but basing your life on a drug that will eventually stop working is pretty futile.

Edited by Major Legend, 02 January 2014 - 05:59 PM.

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#23 zeropoint

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:46 PM

I've seen a lot of people go down the path of taking Benzos daily and they pretty much became assholes to all their friends, stealing without a second thought, etc. These were good people as well. Honestly if I ever find a friend taking benzos daily whether perscription or not I give them an ultimatum to either stop(I'll help them), or I'm not being their friend. I've seen too many people get totally ruined by benzos. It's sad.

All addiction side effects aside. Dependency is the last thing you need to worry about. Benzos are horrible. I strongly suggest you try as many alternatives as you can before resorting to benzos. Exercise, abstinence, charity, confidence boosting, whatever. Really. You do not want to get started on Benzos. Maybe I'm just unlucky but out of ten people I've known throughout my life to start on benzos, they all ended up becoming very undesirable people. Benzos just make you so apathetic. They literally destroy your personality.


I also knew someone who liked "k-pins" and whenever she took them I couldn't even go to the store with her as she would constantly shop lift stuff. I didn't catch on till later, she would give little gifts to me, me not realizing they were stolen, which really pissed me off.

#24 nowayout

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:43 PM

I've seen a lot of people go down the path of taking Benzos daily and they pretty much became assholes to all their friends, stealing without a second thought, etc. These were good people as well. Honestly if I ever find a friend taking benzos daily whether perscription or not I give them an ultimatum to either stop(I'll help them), or I'm not being their friend. I've seen too many people get totally ruined by benzos. It's sad.

All addiction side effects aside. Dependency is the last thing you need to worry about. Benzos are horrible. I strongly suggest you try as many alternatives as you can before resorting to benzos. Exercise, abstinence, charity, confidence boosting, whatever. Really. You do not want to get started on Benzos. Maybe I'm just unlucky but out of ten people I've known throughout my life to start on benzos, they all ended up becoming very undesirable people. Benzos just make you so apathetic. They literally destroy your personality.


I also knew someone who liked "k-pins" and whenever she took them I couldn't even go to the store with her as she would constantly shop lift stuff. I didn't catch on till later, she would give little gifts to me, me not realizing they were stolen, which really pissed me off.


She sounds like a drug abuser, which is a different story altogether,
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#25 nupi

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:02 PM

- if you talk to a doctor they would probably recommend SSRIs, I can't say for others but low dose short half life benzo gives me a sense of control, compared to SSRIs which leave u permanently drugged.


That is precisely why I much prefer SSRIs to benzos. Don't get me wrong, Diazepam or Lorazepam (never tried Xanax) are fantastically effective in the short term but they wear of and you will feel at least some desire to redose which is where the slippery slope starts. Not so much with SSRIs because they simply do not have much in the line of recreational potential
and are much smoother. Though it depends a lot on your metabolism and the drug in question, for example with Escitalopram I could feel changing levels of the drug over the day whereas Fluoxetine has such a long half life that I do not even really need to take it every day. I can even stop cold turkey without any obvious side effects (of course, anxiety gradually creeps back but that is to be expected), it's that smooth [1]. If an SSRI leaves you permanently drugged chances are you either have too high a dose (common) or just the wrong one (I was absolutely useless on Escitalopram, for one but less due to being drugged and more due to all around nasty side effects)

[1] In fairness, I also got off Venlafaxine cold turkey without any obvious ill effects either so it may just be my brain chemistry that is not prone to SSRI discontinuation syndrome.

Edited by nupi, 03 January 2014 - 04:03 PM.

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#26 killahbeatz

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:27 PM

Since I was 18 I have been using lorazepam 1mg on and off (Im 39 now) I have never been addicted to them but I also hate taking them for anxiety because it just makes me lazy and sleepy. The last time I used them was for my sleeping problems (shift work sleep disorder) and anxiety. I used them sublingual daliy for one year straight about a year ago. I still have a bottle but only take them when I have a panic attack. I would suggest that you use half under the tongue and see if it works for you and no more then 6 months of uses.


#27 Major Legend

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 07:58 PM

- if you talk to a doctor they would probably recommend SSRIs, I can't say for others but low dose short half life benzo gives me a sense of control, compared to SSRIs which leave u permanently drugged.


That is precisely why I much prefer SSRIs to benzos. Don't get me wrong, Diazepam or Lorazepam (never tried Xanax) are fantastically effective in the short term but they wear of and you will feel at least some desire to redose which is where the slippery slope starts. Not so much with SSRIs because they simply do not have much in the line of recreational potential
and are much smoother. Though it depends a lot on your metabolism and the drug in question, for example with Escitalopram I could feel changing levels of the drug over the day whereas Fluoxetine has such a long half life that I do not even really need to take it every day. I can even stop cold turkey without any obvious side effects (of course, anxiety gradually creeps back but that is to be expected), it's that smooth [1]. If an SSRI leaves you permanently drugged chances are you either have too high a dose (common) or just the wrong one (I was absolutely useless on Escitalopram, for one but less due to being drugged and more due to all around nasty side effects)

[1] In fairness, I also got off Venlafaxine cold turkey without any obvious ill effects either so it may just be my brain chemistry that is not prone to SSRI discontinuation syndrome.


Can you describe you're experiences on SSRI - how does the anti-anxiety effects feel vs benzos, how long does it take for the anti anxiety to work - does it impair your problem solving or creative ability (emotionally driven), has tolerance developed and how long have u been on flouxetine.

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#28 nupi

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 12:31 PM

Anxiolysis Much less noticeable (therefore no recreational value) as it is more like background chatter/obsessive thinking quiets down compared to the full blown utter relaxation I get from benzos. I can't really tell how long it took to work as I was initially on Escitalopram and that had all kind of odd side effects in my case, by the time I switched I must have been at least partially in steady state with the Escitalopram.

I don't think I developed tolerance after about 1 year. It does not have any obvious cognitive side effect but perhaps it does lower motivation.





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