15 replies to this topic

[nupi]

I am currently designing my 2014 stack, which looks along the line of the following right now, any comments are more than welcome (especially for stuff geared towards body recomposition or T increase).

Morning (nothing, I loosely follow a lean gains inspired 16hour intermittent fasting schedule)

Lunch:
1 AOR MultiBasics 3
1 LEF SuperK softgel (1mg K1, 1mg K2)
1 Solgar 800mcg Metafolin pill (I have the MTHFR defect)
3x800mg Jarrow Creapure Creatine
2000 IU Vitamin D3 softgel (NOW or whatever is cheapest on iHerb when I reorder)
400mg NOW Green Tea capsule (50% Egcg)
300mg 2x Milk Thistle Cap (NOW)
2 LEF Super Omega-3, EPA/DHA With Sesame Lignans & Olive Fruit Extract (total 700mg EPA, 500mg DHA)
15-20billion Jarrow stabilized Pro Biotics
1000mg Tribulus Terrestris (NOW)


Dinner
1 AOR Multi Basics3
3x800mg Jarrow Creapure Creatine
2 LEF Super Omega-3, EPA/DHA With Sesame Lignans & Olive Fruit Extract (total 700mg EPA, 500mg DHA)
600mg NAC when I plan on drinking


I also occasionally take Jiaogulan and Schizandra (Paradise Herbs) for energy and sociability I have not yet decided whether I will go back on Fluoxetine or not (after a 40 day hiatus)

I aim to lift weight (compound exercises) 3 times per week and have a reasonably clean diet with a slant towards lowish carb.

[machete234]

Im also moving away from nootropics to a more general stack for example I always take creatine in low doses right now as well as Vitamin D 5.000 ui (which is a bit much) and 1mg melatonin at night relatively often.
Also at least 300mg of vitamin c a day or more. (I drink it through a straw to protect the teeth)
Im also eating dabur brand chyawanprash in the morning its basically a marmelade with ~40 ayurvedic spices in it.
Ashwagandha and Brahmi in some preparations but in very small dosages. (dabur brand is the only affordable one, other brands are armed robbery)

I allready gained around 5 kg from 75 to 80+ without doing too much excercise, could be the creatine but with 300mg to 1g a day water retention is not so likely at least I think that.
Btw creatine can be had extremely cheap no need to buy pills or something, in milk it goes down like uhm.. milk.

Things almost anyone should supplement from bulletproof exec:
Maybe some good ideas in there for the evening stack like magnesium-bis-glycinate, I need to get this again.

Here are the ten nutrients (almost) everyone should supplement with.

• Vitamin D
• Magnesium
• Vitamin K2
• Vitamin C
• Iodine
• Krill Oil
• Vitamin A
• Selenium
• Copper
• Folinic Acid with B12

http://www.bulletpro...ur-supplements/

[nupi]

I have Magnesium Malate at hand and will probably add it (but at lunch time). As for the Creatine, powdered Creatine is atrocious and I can't mix it with milk because a) I hate milk and b) I am lactose intolerant..., the 10 nutrients in your list I have covered with the stack.

As for Melatonin, by experience, it is not really very helpful against any of my sleep problems which are primarily anxiety driven - THOSE and most other anxiety issues are solved perfectly by Fluoxetine it's just that it makes me extremely lazy which is why I am a little undecided about going back to it...

I was thinking about Ashwagandha but I am a little wary of using it long term given it is likely at least weakly gabaergic and I can't be bothered with Bacopa anymore - Fluoxetine does everything it does but muuuuch stronger (and is covered by insurance, to boot).

Edited by nupi, 31 December 2013 - 07:34 PM.

[Deep Thought]

Increase your dosage of fish oil.

Ditch the multivitamin and multimineral supplement. I think that we can now safely assume that taking multivitamin is deadly in the worst case scenario and homeopathic in the best case scenario - if you're getting every essential and pseudoessential nutrient and micronutrient from your diet.

Do HIIT (High intensity interval training). This is truly fascinating. Supposedly 1 hour of well-designed HIIT will confer the same neuromuscular and muscular benefits as 10.5 hours of endurance training do. On top of this already stupendously impressive benefit is the fact that HIIT increases glucose uptake for several days after an athelete has completed the HIIT.

To appreciate the enormity of this discovery - consider that the brain uses glucose as a primary fuel source. (Some say it's ketone bodies though, both nutrients may be a primary fuel source.) The glucose is turned into lactic acid before the brain consumes it. The human muscles produce lactic acid as a waste product when generating ATP.

• Vitamin D
• Magnesium
• Vitamin K2
• Vitamin C
• Iodine
• Krill Oil
• Vitamin A
• Selenium
• Copper
• Folinic Acid with B12

From bulletproof executive, right?

Also of note to anyone thinking that copper will lead to ADlzheimer's disease by causing beta-amyloid plagues to accumulate - a recent study showed that this is not the case.


Happy new year!

Edited by Deep Thought, 31 December 2013 - 08:24 PM.

[nupi]

Increase your dosage of fish oil.

Based on what? 1400mg EPA and 1000mg DHA is already quite a bit.

Ditch the multivitamin and multimineral supplement. I think that we can now safely assume that taking multivitamin is deadly in the worst case scenario and homeopathic in the best case scenario - if you're getting every essential and pseudoessential nutrient and micronutrient from your diet.

I have not seen a single methodologically sound study showing low dosed high quality multivitamins to be harmful. Megadosed grocery store crap, maybe.

Do HIIT (High intensity interval training). This is truly fascinating. Supposedly 1 hour of well-designed HIIT will confer the same neuromuscular and muscular benefits as 10.5 hours of endurance training do. On top of this already stupendously impressive benefit is the fact that HIIT increases glucose uptake for several days after an athelete has completed the HIIT.

At times I look into it but so far, I have not found a truly convincing protocol that is actually implementable in real life. But I will probably try again with Tabatha like bike ergometer.

• Vitamin D
• Magnesium
• Vitamin K2
• Vitamin C
• Iodine
• Krill Oil
• Vitamin A
• Selenium
• Copper
• Folinic Acid with B12

From bulletproof executive, right?

From own research, bulletproof executive is pretty fringe. Not quite as bad as Mark Sisson but borderline quacky in any case (especially the bullet proof coffee BS).

(Besides, the smaller dosages of those are exactly why I have a multi in the first place, supplementing them individually in small doses is just not very practical)


Another thing that I am considering is C60-OO but there I need to do some serious research today.

Edited by nupi, 01 January 2014 - 12:01 PM.

[nupi]

Forgot to mention the 3mg Astaxanthin at lunch and dinner

[GoingPrimal]

Astaxanthin is gold. How is this working out for you so far?

You mentioned compound lifts three times a week - assuming things like bench press, squats, deadlifts, pull ups, military press, cleans and the like? Sounds good, make sure to don't skip deads and squats, biggest releases of GH and test from those. I think general consensus is heavy weights with low reps increases test, while mid-lower weights and high reps increases more GH. Might train heavy for a month or two, and then switch to higher reps. Make sure you don't over train either, take a week each month or two to train really light.

Of course, get good amounts of protein and healthy fats, things like grass fed animal cuts and pastured eggs. Need fats for creating testosterone.

You could look into carb cycling, I've found it pretty useful. Basically consume majority of carbs right after heavy workouts, and keep carbs low the rest of the time. Improves insulin sensitivity and the carbs that are consumed after a heavy workout are preferentially used to replenish glycogen stores and build muscle instead of being stored as fat.

Definitely second the recommendation for HIIT. Amazing stuff, hits all the right hormonal buttons. Very practical too, you definitely don't need or should do an hours worth of HIIT, I think Deep Thought was just making a comparison on this. Fifteen minutes is all you need to begin, and to see effects. Honestly wouldn't need more than a half hour tops, I usually keep it around 15-25. Burns fat, preserves muscle.

I personally love Ashwagandha - I think it is a bit gaba-ergic but considering the Yogis and people of India have used it regularly as a tonic for thousands of years, I think it'd be safe to consume regularly. Schizandra and Jiaogulan are great choices as well

I've found Deer Antler to be a definite boost to my training, along with Cordyceps. I'm not talking the crappy IGF-1 bodybuilding deer antler products, and I don't think they even have an actual direct anabolic effect. But a quality Deer Antler extract, say from Dragon Herbs, Jing herbs or any other high-end herbal company is a definite boost to training. Improved drive, improved mood, more aggression in the gym (and life in general, the good go-after-what-you-want aggression, not physical aggression). Again, a good quality cordyceps extract, preferably hydro-ethanolic, will do wonders for your energy levels and performance. Both of these supplements have a myriad of other benefits as well.

I see you're from Switzerland - I'm not sure what importation of supplements is like there, but I've used Driven Sports' products for body recomp with good success. Activate Xtreme for test boosting, Triazole for estrogen reduction, Lean Xtreme for a non-stim, anti-cortisol fat reduction. Not steroids, just hormone boosting. Good products, not necessary, thought I'd throw them out there.

Keep us posted!

[niner]

Also of note to anyone thinking that copper will lead to ADlzheimer's disease by causing beta-amyloid plagues to accumulate - a recent study showed that this is not the case.

Do you have a reference for that? The epidemiology on copper is not pretty, Alzheimer's or not. Isn't copper deficiency pretty rare?

[nupi]

Almost three months in, this is sort of working. I have made decent gains in the gym strength wise but my diet has remained kind of lack luster. I should eliminate more of the fast carbs and replace them with veggies and be more vigilant about carb cycling) and therefore, fat-loss has not happened (might even have gained some.

Need to make another push on the diet and take the HIIT more serious.

Still pondering C60-OO

Edited by nupi, 23 March 2014 - 10:50 AM.

[GoingPrimal]

Carb cycling is good for keeping fat gains to a minimum. Common knowledge is that except for the newbie or those using steroids, it's almost impossible to build muscle while simultaneously losing fat. The best one can really hope for is keeping fat gains to a minimum while putting on muscle, and then doing a "cut" afterwards while trying to hold on to as much muscle as possible. That said, intermittent fasting (which you're already doing) with carb cycling, and HIIT a few times a week (maybe once or twice if you're trying to build muscle as opposed to burn fat), has been the best method I've come across for keeping the fat gains to a minimum, although ymmv.

As for C60, I find it quite interesting. I bought a bottle from Vaughter Wellness, used to take a 4 or 5 squirts a week, now it's more hit or miss. All the info we have on it is very intriguing, and like most, I've found it does enhance workouts, much like creatine or beta-alanine does - you're just able to squeeze out a few more reps, and it feels less taxing. Aerobic endurance is increased a bit as well. Working out is noticeably improved, though nothing extreme, which, considering how crappy almost all workout supplements are, is very impressive. Anything that provides an almost immediate boost to training, both aerobic and anaerobic, is impressive.

That said, it's not really studied in humans, and we're all guinea pigging ourselves.

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but make sure your training and diet is solid - make sure you're pushing yourself each day in the gym, either adding more weight or doing more reps (within reason), and take one week every two months or so to "deload" and prevent overtraining. Get plenty of rest, eat a bit above your caloric maintenance, and try your best to eat quality foods. That really is 90% of gaining muscle. Change up your workout routine every few months so the body can't adapt.

[brainstorm11]

Here are the ten nutrients (almost) everyone should supplement with.

• Vitamin D
• Magnesium
• Vitamin K2
• Vitamin C
• Iodine
• Krill Oil
• Vitamin A
• Selenium
• Copper
• Folinic Acid with B12

I don't really agree with this. Most people do not need iodine if eating processed foods / salt. People who are eating all natural / whole foods typically will not need Vit A.

The problem with supplementing everything in a carpet bombing strategy is that a lot of nutrients compete with one another. Zinc and iron aren't on that list, but just as an example, they compete for absorption.

I think the statement "everyone should" is just not right in the vitamin/mineral supplementation mindset. People have different needs and overdoing things can lead to just as many problems as not getting enough (if there is nutrient competition).

[nupi]

Astaxanthin is gold. How is this working out for you so far?

You mentioned compound lifts three times a week - assuming things like bench press, squats, deadlifts, pull ups, military press, cleans and the like? Sounds good, make sure to don't skip deads and squats, biggest releases of GH and test from those.

I skip the deadlifts for safety but other than that, it should be decent enough.

Of course, get good amounts of protein and healthy fats, things like grass fed animal cuts and pastured eggs. Need fats for creating testosterone.

Certifiably grass feed meat is hard to get in most of Europe. In fairness, we also do not pump animals full of hormones and antibiotics, so it may be less of an issue.

I've found Deer Antler to be a definite boost to my training, along with Cordyceps. I'm not talking the crappy IGF-1 bodybuilding deer antler products, and I don't think they even have an actual direct anabolic effect. But a quality Deer Antler extract, say from Dragon Herbs, Jing herbs or any other high-end herbal company is a definite boost to training. Improved drive, improved mood, more aggression in the gym (and life in general, the good go-after-what-you-want aggression, not physical aggression). Again, a good quality cordyceps extract, preferably hydro-ethanolic, will do wonders for your energy levels and performance. Both of these supplements have a myriad of other benefits as well.

I see you're from Switzerland - I'm not sure what importation of supplements is like there, but I've used Driven Sports' products for body recomp with good success. Activate Xtreme for test boosting, Triazole for estrogen reduction, Lean Xtreme for a non-stim, anti-cortisol fat reduction. Not steroids, just hormone boosting. Good products, not necessary, thought I'd throw them out there.

Been trying Dr Best Cordyceps on and off, not sure it does much of anything.

For the most part, Swiss customs does not really care much about importing supplements but frankly, those grey market thingies might be a worse idea than straight up hormone supplementation...

[GoingPrimal]

I agree, from what I've seen, many places in Europe have MUCH better standards for meat than the US.

And suit yourself on the "grey market" supps - I've researched the ingredients and used them myself, to pretty good (not amazing) results. They are certainly not necessary and you'll do well without them.

[niner]

Here are the ten nutrients (almost) everyone should supplement with.

• Vitamin D
• Magnesium
• Vitamin K2
• Vitamin C
• Iodine
• Krill Oil
• Vitamin A
• Selenium
• Copper
• Folinic Acid with B12

I don't really agree with this. Most people do not need iodine if eating processed foods / salt. People who are eating all natural / whole foods typically will not need Vit A.

I don't agree with it either, although for different reasons. There are many people who don't get an optimal amount of iodine, and supplementing at 150 mcg/d has no particular downside, but a significant upside for those who need it. Copper, on the other hand, is something that I put in the "toxin" category. Deficiency is rare, overload is common and dangerous. Exceed the DRI on that at your peril.

I agree with you about the "everyone needs" thing too. That's a little too broad of a brush.

[Galaxyshock]

Suma Root may be worth a try to support muscle build and strength. I can quickly add ~10kg to basic movements like squats and bench presses when I start consuming it. Suma also induces certain fullness to muscles that is apparent even at rest.

[MarcD]

vo wo bisch?
I take L-Citrulline malate as a pre-workout-supp to reduce muscle fatigue and it works wonders