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What has helped more your sleep?

sleep quality

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154 replies to this topic

#1 HoldingTheFaith

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 02:15 PM


I suffer from fragmented and unrefreshing sleep on top of sleep onset insomnia, but I somewhat fixed that last one with melatonin sublingual. That is the only supplement from the 80´s I have tried that has improved sleep quality (hmm maybe Aminonight and ZMA also helped cannot remember, but obviously not that much because I stopped using them).

I am especially interested in how supplements that modulate or restore the HPA axis such as aswagandha and other adaptogens helped or not helped people here, as by extensive testing and symptoms I know I suffer from HPA dysregulation also known as adrenal fatigue. List brands please, as we know some brands don´t work at all.

#2 ta5

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 05:20 PM

Methyl B12, morning light therapy, and reduced light in the evening. I have used Now and Jarrow.
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#3 HoldingTheFaith

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 07:13 PM

Ah it´s being time to try methyl B12 already. It seems pretty effective judging by what people say in forums and what can be read in google scholar.

By the way, although this is pretty redundant, I want to contribute, what has helped more MY sleep is melatonin sublingual, Douglas Labs and sleep hygiene (waking up early). Getting to sleep at the correct hours (before 12 PM) really improves sleep quality. I get crazy awesome dreams as a side effect some days as well, that is pretty cool. Yesterday night I dreamed about flying in the atmosphere with an old friend and about vampires. At least when I dream I can experience some freedom from disease.

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 19 January 2014 - 07:36 PM.


#4 DbCooper

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 08:42 PM

Resistant Starch in the form of unrefined potato starch. Profoundly deep restful sleep with many vivid dreams.
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#5 ta5

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:42 PM

I think Taurine has possibly helped my sleep too. Or, it makes me feel much better when I don't get enough sleep.

#6 HoldingTheFaith

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:43 PM

Resistant Starch in the form of unrefined potato starch. Profoundly deep restful sleep with many vivid dreams.

For real? :|o

#7 DbCooper

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 11:05 PM

Resistant Starch in the form of unrefined potato starch. Profoundly deep restful sleep with many vivid dreams.

For real? :|o



Do your research.

Start out with a teaspoon or two and work up to 4 tablespoons per day. Your gut micro biome will reward you by producing all the chemicals it's supposed to as well as all the SCFA it's supposed to.
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#8 blood

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 11:53 PM

Start out with a teaspoon or two and work up to 4 tablespoons per day...


A teaspoon of what product?

#9 DbCooper

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 01:37 AM

Start out with a teaspoon or two and work up to 4 tablespoons per day...


A teaspoon of what product?



I use the Bob's brand here, its easy to find local and online as well: http://www.amazon.co...s=potato starch


Green plantain flour is the only other product Ive seen that is very high in Resistant Starch (RS). Here http://www.amazon.co...=plantain flour

Mix it up with some yogurt or a smoothy (or even water) and ingest. Don't heat it and start with a small dose and work your way up.

Edited by DbCooper, 20 January 2014 - 01:39 AM.


#10 HoldingTheFaith

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 08:37 AM

Dude that is soo cheap. I am ordering it ASAP and thanks for the reccomendation. I suffer from intestinal inflammation and this could be a Godsend. I´ve seen lately people raving in the forums about Resistant Starch, the hype might have some foundation after all.

#11 Deep Thought

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 10:41 AM

Adrenal fatigue does not exist. It's literally modern day witchcraft.
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#12 HoldingTheFaith

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 10:46 AM

Adrenal fatigue does not exist. It's literally modern day witchcraft.

I wish. If you didn´t feel drowsy at night and had consistently abnormalities in cortisol in blood, urine and saliva tests then you wouldn´t be so sure of that. Adrenal fatigue is just another name for HPA dysregulation, which has been shown to be involved in depression for exmple.
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#13 Deep Thought

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 11:19 AM

Adrenal fatigue does not exist. It's literally modern day witchcraft.

I wish. If you didn´t feel drowsy at night and had consistently abnormalities in cortisol in blood, urine and saliva tests then you wouldn´t be so sure of that. Adrenal fatigue is just another name for HPA dysregulation, which has been shown to be involved in depression for exmple.

I've been hit pretty bad by insomnia, stress and depression, so I do take this seriously by the way...

Adrenal fatigue is not another name for HPA dysregulation AFAIK, although I'm sure the symptoms of adrenal fatigue can be made to fit those of HPA dysregulation. This is the beauty of make-believe diseases. I.e. "adrenal fatigue" and not diseases that are recognized by the medical community such as adrenal insufficiency etc.

Some antidepressants have been shown to restore the HPA.
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#14 HoldingTheFaith

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 11:50 AM

The medical community it´s not perfect, therefore whatever it officially preaches doesn´t have to be true, nor it is needed for something to exist to be "accepted" by such a corrupted and controlled collective, and that is far from perfect can be confirmed empirically when you go to dozens of doctors that either can´t diagnose, can´t treat/improve you and even some times make you worse. Everyone with a chronic/autoimmune disease have experienced that.

Having said that, yeah I know about that of the antidepressants, I am investigating and trying things to modulate and restore the homestasis of my HPA, SAS and other fancy acronyms. I wanted to give Imipramine a go but the last doc insisted in prescribe me Clomipramine and Paroxetine because he was so sure I was making up my symptoms and I had OCD :sleep: The medical community scores again!

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 20 January 2014 - 11:56 AM.

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#15 Deep Thought

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 01:58 PM

The medical community it´s not perfect, therefore whatever it officially preaches doesn´t have to be true, nor it is needed for something to exist to be "accepted" by such a corrupted and controlled collective, and that is far from perfect can be confirmed empirically when you go to dozens of doctors that either can´t diagnose, can´t treat/improve you and even some times make you worse. Everyone with a chronic/autoimmune disease have experienced that.

Having said that, yeah I know about that of the antidepressants, I am investigating and trying things to modulate and restore the homestasis of my HPA, SAS and other fancy acronyms. I wanted to give Imipramine a go but the last doc insisted in prescribe me Clomipramine and Paroxetine because he was so sure I was making up my symptoms and I had OCD :sleep: The medical community scores again!

It's no secret that medical scientists and the medical community at large don't know everything there is to know about the human body and the diseases that afflict it. There are some things that are extremely hard to diagnose correctly (i.e. "if you hear the sound of hooves behind you think horse, not zebra").

Though if you've been pulled around in circles by doctors, I understand you're disenfranchised and I sometimes marvel at the stupidity of doctors and indeed other "professionals", but when I do this a singular person is often the target of my ire.



In addition, I've been a chronic insomniac for the past 9 years or so and the things that have provided permanent relief are:
Melatonin.
Writing down stuff that bothers me. To put words on it. A study showed that it worked the mechanism of emptying working memory.
Exercise. Though it's hard to see an exercise plan through when you're suffering from a chronic illness.
Anything that raises BDNF or NGF.

Edited by Deep Thought, 20 January 2014 - 02:00 PM.


#16 HoldingTheFaith

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:13 PM

Thanks for telling us what helped you, we are in the melatonin team then hehe. So what are those? BDNF or NGF?

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 20 January 2014 - 02:14 PM.


#17 Jeoshua

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:51 PM

Brain Derived Neural Factor and Nerve Growth Factor. They're neurological hormones, and both decrease the rate of apoptosis and increase the cell division rate in neurons. At least, they are correlated with these effects, not necessarilly the source of them. Lots of supplements increase NGF, like ALCAR or Uridine. Actually, some antidepressants have that ability, as well. Look at NGF like "Testosterone for the brain", without the androgenic side effects.
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#18 Deep Thought

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 03:27 PM

Thanks for telling us what helped you, we are in the melatonin team then hehe. So what are those? BDNF or NGF?

I forgot to mention that noopept nearly cured insomnia for me and turned me into a human alarm clock.

Brain Derived Neural Factor and Nerve Growth Factor. They're neurological hormones, and both decrease the rate of apoptosis and increase the cell division rate in neurons. At least, they are correlated with these effects, not necessarilly the source of them. Lots of supplements increase NGF, like ALCAR or Uridine. Actually, some antidepressants have that ability, as well. Look at NGF like "Testosterone for the brain", without the androgenic side effects.

+1.

#19 ta5

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:09 AM

Glycine may have sleep benefits too.
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#20 Ubiyca

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:55 AM

3mg melatonin is the thing that helps me the most, by far.

#21 Jeoshua

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:34 AM

Melatonin is good, but can be habit forming. I've been dependent upon it a few times in my life to even throw that particular hormonal switch.

L-Tryptophan is great. It makes me appreciably tired and makes me happy the next day. It can lead to an overabundance of Serotonin, tho, so I recommend supplementing it alongside L-Tyrosine, which has a bit of the opposite effect, so it's not really something you want to take every day to help you sleep.

OTC Sleep aids like Hydrocortisone are bad. They just knock me out and keep me from actually sleeping. Bad juju.

Honestly, for me the best, most sustainable, healthiest thing that helps me sleep is a blindfold, earplugs, and keeping away from blue light for at least 4 hours before I go to sleep.
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#22 timar

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:37 AM

I've never tried melantonin (unfortunately it's only available by presciption in Germany).

When I have trouble falling asleep, I brew a medicinal tea, which contains valerian, hops, lemon balm and chamomille, add a bit of honey and maybe take some magnesium with it. That works very well for me, so I never felt the need for stronger sleeping aids.

Edited by timar, 22 January 2014 - 09:39 AM.


#23 Ubiyca

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:08 AM

Melatonin is good, but can be habit forming. I've been dependent upon it a few times in my life to even throw that particular hormonal switch.

L-Tryptophan is great. It makes me appreciably tired and makes me happy the next day. It can lead to an overabundance of Serotonin, tho, so I recommend supplementing it alongside L-Tyrosine, which has a bit of the opposite effect, so it's not really something you want to take every day to help you sleep.

OTC Sleep aids like Hydrocortisone are bad. They just knock me out and keep me from actually sleeping. Bad juju.

Honestly, for me the best, most sustainable, healthiest thing that helps me sleep is a blindfold, earplugs, and keeping away from blue light for at least 4 hours before I go to sleep.


What's wrong with melatonin being habit forming, if it actually works and makes you sleep better = live longer?

It's good for you, and dirt cheap.

I notice if I don't take it for a few days, then take it, it really knocks me out. The most noticeable thing being, when you do wake up.. you can easily go back to sleep and sleep more. That's awesome.

So yes, tolerance does form slightly, but it's still effective even when it's taken chronically, and upon cessation, tolerance goes down fast, IME.

Edited by Ubiyca, 24 January 2014 - 03:17 AM.


#24 Spherical Cow

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:15 AM

The 4 M's: Melatonin, Mirtazapine, Magnesium, Meditation. These are all reasonably effective and synergistic.

If you are interested in herbal remedies: Valerian, Chamomile, and Lemon balm may be of use,

Regarding standard pharmaceuticals: Trazadone, Promethazine and Amitriptyline are useful.

In cases of severe insomnia: a benzodiazapine such as Temazepam, Flunitrazepam, or Diazepam.

Supplementing with niacin in the evening might be helpful. Reducing evening/night-time computer use and limiting use of stimulants (such as caffeine) to early in the day might be sensible.

Also, forcing yourself to go to bed and get up at the same time each day (irrespective of how many hours you sleep initially) will help you to structure your sleep-wake cycle.

Edited by Spherical Cow, 24 January 2014 - 08:16 AM.


#25 Deep Thought

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:06 PM

Thanks for telling us what helped you, we are in the melatonin team then hehe. So what are those? BDNF or NGF?

I forgot to mention that noopept nearly cured insomnia for me and turned me into a human alarm clock.

Brain Derived Neural Factor and Nerve Growth Factor. They're neurological hormones, and both decrease the rate of apoptosis and increase the cell division rate in neurons. At least, they are correlated with these effects, not necessarilly the source of them. Lots of supplements increase NGF, like ALCAR or Uridine. Actually, some antidepressants have that ability, as well. Look at NGF like "Testosterone for the brain", without the androgenic side effects.

+1.

Rereading this makes me laugh.

I really am random sometimes.

--
What happens when you try to go to sleep?

#26 MrXIII

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 06:25 PM

Magnesium glycinate helps me a lot. When I take it, it makes me sleep very soundly until I wake up during the night (which I always do at the some point. I can't sleep a full night without awaking) And even when I wake up I can fall asleep again more easily.
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#27 HoldingTheFaith

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:23 PM

What happens when you try to go to sleep?


When it is night, I usually feel my best. Mood is higher, I feel pretty energetic, definitely awake. I go to bed knowing that I will not experience that HOLY drowsiness that healthy people get. Without drugging myself with melatonin, I can lie awake for hours and hours until dawn. Sleep onset is very sudden, there is no gradual slumber, I lay there, toss and turn hopelessly until I suddenly lose consciousness. Often times in this period of 30 - 60 minutes of tossing and turning I will be with an erection because being in the bed awake is very boring and depressing so my brain goes on and on about girls.

Oddly sometimes at 3-6 PM I do get that gradual slumber if I lay down in my bed and it is actually very hard to resist sleeping then. That is very strange. My hormonal homestasis is pretty fucked, like you see in CFS people.

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 24 January 2014 - 07:27 PM.


#28 Ubiyca

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:37 PM

What happens when you try to go to sleep?


Often times in this period of 30 - 60 minutes of tossing and turning I will be with an erection because being in the bed awake is very boring and depressing so my brain goes on and on about girls.



How old are you?

How often do you masturbate?


Can you put on the TV, watch something on netflix until you feel sleepy enough to close your eyes and sleep?

#29 Jembe

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:43 PM

Magnesium, potassium, K2 MK4 (better nasal breathing), c60-oo.

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#30 HoldingTheFaith

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:43 PM

What happens when you try to go to sleep?


Often times in this period of 30 - 60 minutes of tossing and turning I will be with an erection because being in the bed awake is very boring and depressing so my brain goes on and on about girls.



How old are you?

How often do you masturbate?


Can you put on the TV, watch something on netflix until you feel sleepy enough to close your eyes and sleep?

I am 22. I masturbate like 2-3 times per week, some months more, some months less, but I want to lower it even more.
I just don´t feel sleepy... the TV keeps me more awake, but yeah I know masturbation is not an alternative. It´s been a while since I just get aroused without actually masturbating.





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